Wounded Black Bear attacks hunter, hunter responds with .45


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msiley
July 10, 2009, 02:28 PM
Check this story out.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/366777_bearhunt13.html?source=rss

Black Bear attacks hunter after being hit with a .338 then is hit with 4 rounds
from a .45 ACP then 2 rounds from a .44 Mag. finally finish him off.

All from a 250 lbs. Black Bear! That is one tenacious bear.

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RoostRider
July 10, 2009, 02:36 PM
I guess that should start to dispel the myth that the .45 or even the .44 Mag. are guaranteed one hit stoppers eh? And starts to prove that a well placed shot beats several poorly placed shots.

Would Wyckoff hunt down another bear?

"Oh yeah," he said. "Fall bear season starts back up in August."

Now that is commitment!

Cosmoline
July 10, 2009, 02:41 PM
260 *after* field dressing, so it was a big one! I do wonder what happened with that first .338 shot. What bullet was it? Did it fail to expand?

runrabbitrun
July 10, 2009, 02:58 PM
When you go into bear country, take an RPG that you purchased
at one of the southern state's gun shows or gun shops.

Oh wait, you can't because we all smuggled them south to make some dough in Mexico. :D

CoRoMo
July 10, 2009, 02:59 PM
Maybe a second .338 shot would have done what four .45 and two .44 bearly did.:)

Vern Humphrey
July 10, 2009, 03:16 PM
Professional hunters in Africa always advise a fast second shot when dealing with dangerous game -- or even with antelope. They say one great fault of American hunters is "admiring the shot" -- standing there and looking when they should be working the bolt and putting another one into the animal.

Marve
July 10, 2009, 03:22 PM
Maybe a second .338 shot would have done what four .45 and two .44 bearly did.A case for a semi auto .338 with detachable magazine?

heavyshooter
July 10, 2009, 03:24 PM
My friends tell me that a black bear is more tame and easier to kill with a reasonable caliber. By "tame" they mean that a startled or wounded bear will try to avoid humans. And a "reasonable caliber" would be .357 or .44 magnum. It seems that none of my friends know what they are talking about. :rolleyes:

BTW - This is why I am in the old school camp that believes that semi-autos do NOT make good trail guns. On the trail, I would rather have a Ruger GP100 (.44 Mag) than a 1911 any day of the week.

Heavy

harmonic
July 10, 2009, 03:28 PM
I would rather have a Ruger GP100 (.44 Mag) than a 1911 any day of the week

That would be a good trick seeing as how the GP100 is 357 mag.

TexasRifleman
July 10, 2009, 03:30 PM
This is why most people I know that spend time in bear country carry a .45-70 slung over their shoulder rather than mess with handguns.

CoRoMo
July 10, 2009, 03:30 PM
I definitely prefer a magnum cartridge in the backcountry.

huntsman
July 10, 2009, 03:31 PM
should have had a shotgun with slugs and left the handguns at home for fun at the range.

Mightee1
July 10, 2009, 03:38 PM
Goes to show that the simplicity of a revolver would have allowed him more than 3 shots before the mag release was hit. Thank god he lived through that.... and has the teeth marks on the .45 as a bad ass souvenir.

paintballdude902
July 10, 2009, 04:07 PM
doesnt surprise me

i put like 4 shots of .30-30 into a 350lbs bear here when it charged me, it just ran into the woods

bootless
July 10, 2009, 04:14 PM
Maybe the guy should have spent some more time at the range. A good shot from a .338, .45, or .44 mag with the right bullet should drop an animal that size. Carry what you can shoot the best, a rifle, pistol or whatever.

gondorian
July 10, 2009, 04:17 PM
Usually when something is trying to eat you it is hard to get off a good shot

paintballdude902
July 10, 2009, 04:18 PM
boot ive shot bears with .44magnum, 12guage slugs, .45-70 guide guns, and my .30-30

doesnt matter where you hit the bear if the bear is spooked you better destroy the brain
a guy i know was using a ruger semi .44mag carbine shot the bear in the face and the bear kept moving. apparantly the bullet found the perfect path for doing nothing broke alot of bone but didnt touch the spine, brane, or arteries

ezypikns
July 10, 2009, 04:23 PM
I don't feel quite so silly now when packing my 1911 when I go deer hunting in Eastern Oklahoma in the fall.

Marve
July 10, 2009, 04:28 PM
Wow, I think the new rule on bears is TO PLAN FOR AN IMMEDIATE SECOND SHOT and if it drops immediately then just don't pull the trigger, but after the first shot, AUTOMATICALLY get ready for a second shot. We say "two in the chest, one in the head" for dealing with human attackers, but for some odd reason, there isn't a similar rule for bears.

His .45 is covered with teeth marks but still works.Dang I wanna see that :D

harmonic
July 10, 2009, 04:47 PM
Usually when something is trying to eat you it is hard to get off a good shot

That'll downright rattle some folks. Not me, of course. I'm just saying.

Oro
July 10, 2009, 05:08 PM
260 *after* field dressing, so it was a big one!

Um, no, that is actually "average" to small in the coastal PNW where these guys were. Frankly, I know local hunters who would not bother to take a shot at one that small as it wasn't "sporting." I had another friend who was a dedicated AK grizzly hunter (he held the NA record for a few decades, actually) and he would not unsling his rifle for anything less than 500lbs he told me once. FYI - I am not putting myself in their league - they are people I know personally - and out of my league by far; just clarifying that for a bear in OR/WA/Can./etc. that is not large. Let's not even talk about AK or northern Can.!

They are that small on average in other parts of the US and interior Canada and other countries. There is a big variance in average size based on habitat. For Oregon/WA/BC on or in the western side of the Cascade slopes, that is not large. I have even seen some I and another hunter both estimated at 400+ pounds even in Eastern WA (granted that was late fall during their hyperphagic feeding season).

Professional hunters in Africa always advise a fast second shot when dealing with dangerous game -- or even with antelope. They say one great fault of American hunters is "admiring the shot" -- standing there and looking when they should be working the bolt and putting another one into the animal.

Damn good advice. "Double Tap" is more than a brand of ammo.

should have had a shotgun with slugs and left the handguns at home for fun at the range.

Hello? .338? They weren't just joking with that caliber, you know.

Goes to show that the simplicity of a revolver would have allowed him more than 3 shots before the mag release was hit.

Or the ejection port was jammed by fur or flesh, or the slide was not allowed to lock back because it was in the belly, etc. These are but a few of the reason my serious self-defense guns are all magnum revolvers. I love autos, but when it's serious, it's a revolver for me. I will take the odds of six pretty certain rounds of .44 Magnum vs. 18 probable rounds of 9mm or .40 S&W in a civilian self-defense scenario any day.

doesnt matter where you hit the bear if the bear is spooked you better destroy the brain

Amen. For those who didn't read the story (seems like many of the posters), this bear took a .338 and then stalked the hunter. And this is where, once there is some better scientific evidence, bear spray might hold an edge. It effects the nasal mucosa if you hit them square in the nose. This is wired straight into the brain via one of the cranial nerves. So it CAN be highly effective. But you have to hit the nose just right. In serious bear country, am beginning to believe both are really wise. Neither is foolproof, but better more weapons than just one. Especially when one of them is as cheap as pepper spray.

Now this is my favorite quote about North American black bears I've ever run across; I keep it bookmarked for reference:

A black bear was hit and killed by a car near Winnipeg Canada, in 2001. The official recorded weight was 856.5 pounds, but it is estimated that the live weight of this large male was more than 886 pounds. The driver was not injured and there appeared to be little damage to the Mazda.

So I am thinking of packing a Mazda in addition to my .44, .30-30, and pepper spray! ;)

Bill B.
July 10, 2009, 05:19 PM
So I am thinking of packing a Mazda in addition to my .44, .30-30, and pepper spray!

Sounds like a likely choice! The 338 was traveling much to fast where the Mazda had more knockdown power ......LOL

Oro
July 10, 2009, 06:06 PM
The 338 was traveling much to fast where the Mazda had more knockdown power ......LOL

Exactly. Go Momentum!!! Now this is semi-related, but I knew of a woman in VT that died and her honda CRX was totaled when she hit a moose at night (school teacher from Bennington, mid or late 80s I think). Problem with hitting a moose with a CRX is that you basically knee-cap it, and then the body/trunk falls through the windshield and into your lap. After I heard that story, I got a VERY big sedan (would have been better off with an SUV or truck) when I lived in Vermont. Despite any efficiency/enviro concerns, since then I've never criticized anyone for choosing safety over efficiency - good thing or else I'd be a serious hypocrite given what we know drive.

paintballdude902
July 10, 2009, 06:57 PM
Oro just avoid the toyota tracels....... and older fellow my dad know hit a 650 coming home from the airport one night totaled the tracel and sent the engine 20 ft past the bear

frank was ok but he was dang scared

Oro
July 10, 2009, 07:01 PM
and older fellow my dad know hit a 650 coming home from the airport one night

In North Carolina ?!?!

pharmer
July 10, 2009, 07:07 PM
I bet the last gun Wykoff sells is a .45 "with bear teeth marks all over it." Joe

heavyshooter
July 10, 2009, 07:36 PM
I would rather have a Ruger GP100 (.44 Mag) than a 1911 any day of the week

That would be a good trick seeing as how the GP100 is 357 mag.

You are correct. I had .44 Mag on my mind becasue of the article. I intended to say that I would rather have 6 rounds of .357 mag. instead of a 1911 .45 acp.

paintballdude902
July 10, 2009, 08:00 PM
oro they got the record blackie here

it was either 895 or 985 im not sure i was only 8 when they got it, it was in my county too

bear hunting is a big thing here the good ol' boys love to get the dogs out and tree the bears

hardluk1
July 10, 2009, 08:04 PM
Black bear in North Carolina was killed 6 to 8 years back over 900 lbs and was a hog farn garbage bin rader.. This weekend there was a story on tv,one of the defence shows about a father and son hunting elk. Son did a great job of sounding like an elk cause i grizzly charged him and dad at the last second put an arrow through its heart as it charged to the son. Heart shoot now!! The grizzly still clawed up and chewed on the son before die'n They showed the pics of a bloody son with the claw marks and bite marks on him. He is one luckly dud his dad is good with that bow... Bow ,not a gun .

msiley
July 10, 2009, 08:08 PM
^^^ wow a bow! that is truly some shot! Goes to show you how much skill and shot placement
mean when the chips are down.

paintballdude902
July 10, 2009, 08:11 PM
hardluck SHUUSSSH! we try to keep that part on the down low, it waasnt eating out of a garbage bin it was eating out of the hog lagoon( where the hog crap goes nasty place) and it was killed in 98 so soon to be 11 years

it wont be long till that record is broken cause there is a biggin living in the swamp behind out horse barn, hes taken 3 dang good dogs but someday im gonna be in my stand when he walkes out this thing is the size of a horse close to 1k

moooose102
July 10, 2009, 08:34 PM
well, imo, the only one stop shot for a bear is a bazooka! providing of course, that you actually do hit it. if i were that guy, yes, i would be out there hunting bear again, but the 45 would stay home, unless it was a 45 winchester magnum. it would be interesting to know how good of a shot the first 338 was, or was not. i would guess that it was not all that good of a shot if they had time to assemble a search party and go after it. with ANY game that can eat you, you gotta hit em good, or there will be trouble. this is not the first time i have read about a magazine falling out of an pistol during a fight. so chalk one up for the reliability of revolvers. if the cylinder falls open (which would be a rare occourance), at least it does not fall off, and a quick flip of the wrist could close it. i have also seen animals that were attacking something that get tunnel vision, and i have read that bears do also. never hunted a bear myself. i do not really like the meat, and i have no use for a bear skin rug. if i knew someone who was going, and wanted someone to "tag along" for safety or companionship, i might go, as long as they wanted the bear. i wouldn't mind the hunt, i just have no use for the prize.

Kentucky Windage
July 10, 2009, 08:37 PM
To bad we don't know what 338 cartridge and bullet were used. A shot "in the shoulder" is poor placement if you're not using a tough bullet. There are some very large bones there. I just shot a huge bear on Vancouver island with a 338 RCM and 225 grain SST. One shot, double lung, at 180 yards and it was lights out. Bear squared just a hair under 7 feet and will make the SCI book.

I got a kick out of the reported 45 round in the forehead. He really should have known better... heck, I've bounced 44 mags off the foreheads of hogs. Definitely not a good shot placement. Guess I'm an old timer, too, because I agree with the post which knocks semiauto pistols for trail carry -- especially if there's anything big and hairy around that can bite back.

doc2rn
July 10, 2009, 09:02 PM
Orange for huntin check
Heat Seaking Stinger missle for bear check :neener:

earlthegoat2
July 10, 2009, 09:35 PM
sounds to me like he should have kept his rifle handy, handguns are secondary. But good looking out though still.

huntsman
July 10, 2009, 10:30 PM
Amen. For those who didn't read the story (seems like many of the posters), this bear took a .338 and then stalked the hunter.

Did you read the story? it wasn't the "hunter" who was attacked, these dudes with pistolas were called in to track a wounded bear after the fact and their main gun should have been a long gun either a shotgun or rifle.

Wyckoff was helping friends track a wounded bear May 31 on the last day of the hunting season.

Fifteen-year-old Chris Moen of Glide, who had drawn the tag, hit the animal in the shoulder with a .338-caliber rifle round, but he and his father couldn't pick up a trail of blood.

They called on Wyckoff and friends to help track it. A few hours later, Wyckoff went up a hill for a view.

Cpt. America
July 11, 2009, 12:11 AM
I'd take the .357 mag over the .45 acp. My backup is a .357 mag and a good clip point knife. Its essential since I bow hunt and BP hunt almost esculsivly.

22-rimfire
July 11, 2009, 12:30 AM
Bears are really tough animals. The 338 is more than sufficient and bigger than I would probably use. Still not up to the job. This is one of those one in a million happenings with a black bear. I'd pack a 4" 41 mag revolver, but that's me.

Thanks for posting the link.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 11, 2009, 12:52 AM
The lesson to be learned (other than shot placement is everything) is that an accidental mag release / sensitive mag release button almost got him killed. I'll bet *anything* that it was a plastic fantastic pistol with their hyper-sensitive leaf-spring mag releases, not an actual good pistol like a CZ, BHP, 1911, Kahr, Sig, etc., with a coil spring mag release.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 11, 2009, 12:54 AM
His .45 is covered with teeth marks but still works.


Ahh, see? I rest my case. A real gun, made from steel, wouldn't have teeth marks! :p

paintballdude902
July 11, 2009, 01:02 AM
well maybe ive seen bears shred traps made of rebar

a pissed off bear will get thru just about anything

SodiumBenzoate
July 11, 2009, 01:11 AM
Maybe the guy should have spent some more time at the range. A good shot from a .338, .45, or .44 mag with the right bullet should drop an animal that size. Carry what you can shoot the best, a rifle, pistol or whatever.

"Wyckoff said he fired a round into the bear's forehead, but the animal kept coming and climbed on top of him. From beneath, Wyckoff said, he got off three more rounds."

He hit it in the forehead... Granted, there are more ideal places to shoot a bear, but it doesn't seem like he aimed poorly.

Cosmoline
July 11, 2009, 04:58 AM
There are a lot of stories about bears shot in the "head" or "forehead" that continue to attack. The reason lies in bruin anatomy. The brain is not in what we see as the "forehead" of the bear. Particularly on the brown, but also the black, the top of the head is not brain at all but a mass of muscle and sinew. Shooting it does nothing. The brain is deeper and lower. It's also not too big, and it's well protected, so it's a poor target to aim for. You're better off shooting the shoulders and of course the heart/lung area.

I also have to wonder if the first hit with the .338 wasn't way off.

A real gun, made from steel, wouldn't have teeth marks!

I've run across old steel pots the bears have turned into play things. They will bite into them over and over again, the jaws having the effect of some huge industrial press--perforating and reforming the metal. Steel is not going to stop those teeth.

As far as the magazine release, that's the sort of thing that tends to happen when you're being attacked by a bear. I remember one encounter some folks had up here. The fellow with the shotgun *THREW* his loaded firearm at the sow in a fit of primal fear. That left the guy with the little 9x19 to deal with the charge, which thankfully he did. A different part of your brain takes over sometimes, a part that lives in caves and doesn't understand firearms.

ljnowell
July 11, 2009, 04:59 AM
The lesson to be learned (other than shot placement is everything) is that an accidental mag release / sensitive mag release button almost got him killed. I'll bet *anything* that it was a plastic fantastic pistol with their hyper-sensitive leaf-spring mag releases, not an actual good pistol like a CZ, BHP, 1911, Kahr, Sig, etc., with a coil spring mag release.

What a load of garbage. I was just thinking it had to be a 1911 because he only got three shots off. Bang, bang, bang, click.

JoeSlomo
July 11, 2009, 07:49 AM
A different part of your brain takes over sometimes, a part that lives in caves and doesn't understand firearms.

...and requires you to change your britches after, should you survive.

danprkr
July 11, 2009, 08:59 AM
...and requires you to change your britches after, should you survive.

"Yes Ma'am he did have clean underwear. In his glove compartment." Bill Cosby

rhoggman
July 11, 2009, 09:38 AM
Does anyone else get the picture that if the bear did not bleed out after 30 min or so from the 338 shot... that it was a superficial shoulder hit? Notice they could not track it.... no blood. I do not believe the bear was wounded hardly at all if they tracked it for 3 hours while it stalked them. Doubt it had anything to do with the cartridge either.

Obviously this was a bear killed by one 44 mag head shot at point blank range. I could almost guarantee that the bear would have laid down and died from the stomach shot, but it would have taken a while. Why you would a shoot a bear is the stomach is also beyond me, but I can't really say what I would do in the situation.

For a frontal head shot on a Blacky I have been told that you need to hit it in the nose.

This should serve as a lesson to all of those in Blacky territory that you should watch out for bears who might be going commando on your buttocks. I live in Virginia where the Black Bear population is growing by leaps and bounds. We are starting to see them in the woods more and more. All I can think about right now is getting a chest harness for my 44mag.

Lesson #1... have a sidearm (especially during blackpowder season)
Lesson #2... This is not WWII (.45 ACP is for killing people)
Lesson #3... Black Bears are often overlooked as a man killer
Lesson #4... Don't get out of your tree stand to track a Blacky with a Flesh wound
Lesson #5... Invest in a 44 mag or something bigger, and know how to shoot it as your "sidearm"

jim4065
July 11, 2009, 10:13 AM
rhoggman: "All I can think about right now is getting a chest harness for my 44mag. "

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=129802426

This is a surprisingly comfortable rig with my .44 Alaskan.

22-rimfire
July 11, 2009, 10:39 AM
No question the shot with the 338 was not a killing shot. That and some bad luck caused the whole thing.

hardluk1
July 11, 2009, 11:41 AM
Paintball it has been that long,,Dam get'n older a heck of a lot faster than i thought. There was a 850 something pound north fl bear many years back that held the record for some time too. I would hate to walk up on one that size, atleast he can't climb as well his his skinny kin folk. I live in a big black bear area so going into winter you start looking before opening the door in the mornings. They raise hell with my deer corn and bird feeders sometimes. Have some pictures somewhere of a 450lb sow that got herself killed a couple weeks later. Had a small bear run across in front of my bike last week about three miles from home . Love these nc mountains but the deer and beer can be a pain in the arss some times.. 3 wrecked cars and many feeders .

Deltaboy
July 11, 2009, 11:52 AM
I stick with Elmer Keith Wheelguns for dangerous game.

feedthehogs
July 11, 2009, 12:23 PM
The virtual hunting debates on what caliber are a waste of time.

If people would spend time in the woods hunting they would realize its not the caliber, its shot placement.

#1 is don't take the shot unless you have a clear sight to the vitals. Having the idea of, oh well I can use a follow up shot is piss poor hunting.

Dragracer_Art
July 11, 2009, 12:30 PM
I try to avoid hunting things that can EAT ME if I miss. :scrutiny:

SoCalShooter
July 11, 2009, 12:32 PM
Well if t had been a smith and wesson 500 as a backup pistol he would have only had to pull it out :)


"I try to avoid hunting things that can EAT ME if I miss. "

But it so much fun to hunt predators.

harmonic
July 11, 2009, 12:38 PM
This one piqued my interest.

I tried to call the guy but his number has been disconnected. My guess is that the anti hunting fools (of which there are plenty in Oregon) harrassed him.

I called a gun dealer in Glide (where the hunter lives) but he never heard of it.

Anyway, from here:

http://www.nrtoday.com/article/20080611/NEWS/696532934&parentprofile=search

.............it says,

A lefty, Wyckoff had accidentally hit the release that sent the clip for the gun, made for a right-handed grip, flying as he struggled with the bear on May 31.

Now I'm interested in what kind of gun he was carrying. I'm a southpaw shooter and carry a semiauto for CCW.

.38 Special
July 11, 2009, 12:58 PM
Note to self: if asked to help track down a wounded bear, bring the .416.

.38 Special
July 11, 2009, 01:01 PM
Now I'm interested in what kind of gun he was carrying. I'm a southpaw shooter and carry a semiauto for CCW.

There's a picture of the gun in the link you provided. Looks like a Llama commander-style 1911.

Which sucks for Dr. Winslow.

The fellow in the story (Aaron Wyckoff) sounds like a hardcase. Asked what it's like to be chewed on by a bear: “I wasn’t too worried about it until the gun quit going off,” the 33-year-old Glide man said. “… Right then, I knew I was screwed.”

How much you want to bet he's shopping for .500 now?

harmonic
July 11, 2009, 01:12 PM
I'll bet *anything* that it was a plastic fantastic pistol with their hyper-sensitive leaf-spring mag releases,

My Glock 17 had a small mag release w/strong spring. I never pulled it while a bear was munching on my leg, but I can't see how I could accidentally pop the mag. (I'm a southpaw shooter.)

Likewise, my 1911 has a fairly strong mag spring. Ditto the above. Maybe the guy in the article had an aftermarket button installed?

.38 Special
July 11, 2009, 01:17 PM
The actual gun in question. (I want 10% of whatever Winslow owes you.)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/Noel3006/bilde.jpg

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 11, 2009, 01:21 PM
Oops, ok, I lose the bet. I can admit when I'm wrong. Must admit I'm shocked to see that, since 1911 styles typically take a very intentional act to release the mag. Flame suit on; let me have it!

But I still find it funny that smark alek man thought that it was a "1911 jam" after the story said it was a mag release issue.

Not sure if the Llama's quite qualify as 1911s. Sure they are based on it, but c'mon, they're llamas. :) :p

Also, you can see the teeth marks in the grip panel. :eek:

.38 Special
July 11, 2009, 01:29 PM
Seems like if you're operating the gun left handed the mag release is going to end up under the proximal portion of the index finger. Speaking for myself, if I'm being chewed on by a bear my trigger management is probably going to devolve into paroxysmal spasms of my entire hand. I can see how the mag release could've been activated by that.

Fodder for the "1911 is only for experts" thread...

harmonic
July 11, 2009, 01:30 PM
Looks like a Llama commander-style 1911.


Thanx. I hadn't noticed. Now I'm going to have to experiment with my CCW semiautos just to see if it could be an issue. (Sig 239 SAS DAK; Colt Combat Commander)

Edited to add: I just checked the 239. It's wearing Hogue fingergrooves and w/the grip to trigger angle, I can't see how one might drop the mag without trying to do so.

I have, however, accidentally popped the mag by bumping into something while carrying in my Galco holster. Maybe I'll carry it more often in my comptac.

CountGlockula
July 11, 2009, 01:37 PM
Bottom line: Carry more guns with lots of high caliber ammo. And make syour your friends have the same set up.

A Glock 20 10mm with 20 rounds would do.

.38 Special
July 11, 2009, 01:54 PM
I am absolutely stunned that a thread about a fight with a bear could turn into a Glock vs. 1911 argument.

A Glock would not do. And obviously neither would a 1911. The gentleman needed a cannon of some sort, not a handgun of any description. If I knew I was wading into a brawl with a wounded bear, I would opt for a double in .577 Nitro. Or maybe I would just stay in bed.

paintballdude902
July 11, 2009, 02:19 PM
hardluk i hear yah

were in the eastern part about 45 mins from the beach

here its all pacosin (thich brush like a mix of cane and vines cant get rid of it except burn it 4-5 times every 3 years) ive been in situations where you think all you have to do is make it it through 15 ft of brush and you have a clearing and a clear shot a bear. that clearing turns into a swamp and then that bear gets behind you. its a scary situation. i was going after a 450-500 in december when this exact thing happened i was 15 mins from our barn and though nothing of it but you get disoriented when you have no land marks and the animal can get behind you really easy.

in my case whne the bear started moving around in the brush 5ft from me i moved into the swamp where i would have some warning and i assessed the situation i had my buck knife, 5 rounds of 190gr .30-06, a compass and i left my phone in the truck. i decided it was better to come back another day with morepeople and the dogs

ive done some pretty stupid stuff, but ive been lucky getting charged once taught me a lesson about bears, TRAVEL IN FORCE i will no longer go after a bear alone its too much work and too dangerous

btw there is a dang bear that owes my brother in law a new lid on his dumpster it was big and light brown if ya see it tell her it owes him 250 for the deposit on the dumpster. one day ill just get the rug from it and sell it then we can call it even

Polar Express
July 11, 2009, 02:43 PM
Interesting thread. Interesting article. I threw an opinion onto a different thread a couple weeks back, and had to be 'corrected' about my assumption. (yes, the assumption made an a$$ out of me)

From what I've been told since then, and from a little focused research, it certainly appears that if you HAVE to go with an autoloader, the 10mm is the one to go with.

4 years ago, I went fishing in Yakutat Alaska for the coho run. We were river fishing in prime bear country, in an area where BROWN bears are estimated to outnumber the people. I CHOSE to bring my 1911, and purchased some cor-bons for the trip. I had a Ruger Blackhawk .44 in the safe, but my logic at the time went for the 1911 for a few reasons: I just about cut my teeth on a 1911, and I have more rounds downrange with that platform than all others put together, and the Ruger is SA. I have never had to shoot in a panic situation, so I went with what I was most comfortable with, thinking that I would have the best % of getting my rounds on target with that gun. We were ALWAYS in at least pairs, (everyone carried) and to top it off, I had the high chest holster for the 1911 so I could carry it with my chest waders. We were lucky nobody needed to use their sidearm.

I've been considering what would be a proper gun to carry as a sidearm in such situations. Wheelguns have certain advantages. They failure % is lower than autoloaders. Magnum calibers are available. You can get them in double action. The downside is that you're dealing with a larger platform, more weight to lug around, you only have 5 or 6 shots, and reloading is slow enough to make it impractical to attempt.

If I'm the one being attacked, I have no disillusion that I'll be able to reload. But, my fishing/hunting buddy(ies) could, and just keep shooting until he's empty. The story that the OP referenced, dealt with a .44 Mag point-blank to the head of the bear as the final ending shot. I have never been involved or witnessed a bear in the act of an attack, but once the bear is at that point, where it is in the act of mauling it's victim, would even a .454 Cassul or .50 BMG in the guts stop it instantly? I don't know. I don't want to volunteer to be the the test case.

That 1911 copy the victim used is not a full size. Therefore, it has a shorter barrel, and that coupled with whatever ammo was used, that could have a significant impact on the energy coming out of that gun. I'm in no way suggesting that a full size .45ACP, with +P loads would have solved the issue, but it at least should be mentioned, right?

I'm comfortable with the reliability of today's autoloaders. Keep in mind, in this case, it was the operator's error that ejected the magazine. (perhaps his error was selecting a right-handed configuration pistol to be used left handed, but the error was human, not mechanical) According to the victim, the gun did not fail.

I'm glad he came out OK, to me, that's the most important thing. But this has certainly given me more reason to consider changing my woods carry choice. With what I've seen so far, I'm leaning towards the .357 Sig, but I'd like to find a platform I like, (I don't care for the feel of a Glock) and that's in my price range that will handle the 10mm. But I've also just started to look for one, perhaps they are easy to find.

toivo
July 11, 2009, 04:09 PM
...killed this one, but it was only a 150-pounder and wasn't attacking at the time it was shot.

Catskill Bear Snatches Infant From Stroller And Kills Her
By WINNIE HU
Published: Tuesday, August 20, 2002

A young black bear killed a 5-month-old girl outside her family's summer bungalow in a Catskill resort yesterday afternoon, snatching the sleeping baby from her stroller while the mother took her two other children to safety.

The bear ran into the woods of Fallsburg, N.Y., with the girl, but dropped her moments later as horrified members of an Orthodox Jewish vacation colony screamed and chased after it.

The baby, Esther Schwimmer, was taken by ambulance to Ellenville Regional Hospital and pronounced dead on arrival around 3 p.m., hospital officials said.

The bear, a 150-pound male, was killed by a Fallsburg police officer, David Decker, who followed him into the woods and shot him once with a .40-caliber pistol as the bear tried to climb a tree. The bear's body was taken to a state laboratory in Delmar, N.Y., to be tested for rabies and other diseases.

Officials from the State Department of Environmental Conservation said it was the first time they could remember a bear mauling a human to death in the wild in New York, though bear attacks have been reported in the past.

''Most bears usually shy away from humans,'' said Peter Constantakes, a spokesman for the department. ''Bears are not usually predatory creatures at all. In most cases, they are wary of humans.''

The last known attack in which a human was killed by a bear in New York was in 1987, when two polar bears mauled and killed an 11-year-old boy who climbed a fence at the Prospect Park Zoo in Brooklyn and sneaked into the polar bear enclosure.

The bear in Fallsburg yesterday was believed to be about 2 years old, and had not been tagged -- an indication that he had not been involved in previous encounters with humans, Mr. Constantakes said. The department has received about 40 nuisance complaints about bears this year in the lower Hudson Valley, including four in Sullivan County, where Fallsburg is located.

The Fallsburg police chief, Brent L. Lawrence, said the dead girl's mother, identified by family friends as Rachel Schwimmer, was playing in a grassy area with her three children near the Ohel Faiga Summer Cottages, a group of 20 or so worn buildings frequented by families from the Satmar Hasidic community in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. When she heard warning cries from neighbors, she grabbed the two older children and took them to the bungalow, the police chief said. While she was gone, the bear picked up the infant in his mouth and ran, chased by several bungalow residents. They wrapped the girl in a blanket and carried her to the ambulance.

Officer Decker said that when he arrived at the attack scene, bystanders pointed him to the woods. He soon came face to face with the bear, which stood about 5 feet tall, and shot him.

''I didn't want to see anyone else get hurt,'' he said. ''The bear wasn't leaving, it was just staying there.''

Chief Lawrence said that drought conditions may have destroyed some of the bear's natural food sources, and forced him to wander farther afield in search for food. There were reports of a second bear in the area, but police officers did not find any others yesterday afternoon.

''We get reports of bears quite often, but usually it's a brief sighting,'' the police chief said. ''This is probably a situation where a bear was foraging for food.''

Steve Levine, the town supervisor, said that development of second homes in what once used to be woods, along with a decline in hunting in recent years, had helped bring bears and humans into closer contact. ''It's a shock,'' he said. ''But just like there are crazy people, I'm sure there are crazy bears. I think this was a terrible, freaky thing.''

The baby's death was mourned yesterday in Williamsburg and in other close-knit Orthodox Jewish communities like Kiryas Joel, in Orange County, where the baby's grandfather, Mendel Schwimmer, is a well-known figure.

-- http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/20/nyregion/catskill-bear-snatches-infant-from-stroller-and-kills-her.html

Confusing reporting--I'm not sure how he was "face to face" with the bear if it was climbing a tree. I'm guessing he shot it in the back of the neck.

HammerheadSSN663
July 11, 2009, 11:05 PM
again, is there an over abundance of Black bears in this area that they have become a danger to the surrounding community.

Sorry, I never understood the mental makeup of shooting animals for fun and sport.

cassandrasdaddy
July 11, 2009, 11:49 PM
http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2009/072009/07102009/477981
this one just shopped elsewhere

Growth sends bear shopping for food


More wildlife crossing paths with suburbanites

Date published: 7/10/2009

BY JONAS BEALS

The signs of summer are all around us: Interstate 95 beach traffic on Fridays, pools filled with splashing children, black bears wandering through local shopping centers.

Colleen Armington of Prince William County caught an ursine invader on film. The black bear was pawing through shopping carts near the entrance to the Giant grocery store off U.S. 17 in Stafford County Saturday evening.

The bear was unconcerned about being in the middle of suburbia, Armington said. "He confidently walked toward the front door. It looked like he knew exactly where he was going--like he had a shopping list."

The bear did not make it into the store and wandered off without harming people or property.

To the surprise of many residents, this area is an increasingly attractive home for two species most people associate with other states: bears and coyotes.

Officials from the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries insist that while these are wild animals that should be treated with respect, they pose no immediate threat to humans.

Officials also say that encounters with these animals are sure to increase.

With that in mind, now might be a good time to meet two of your increasingly less obscure neighbors.

THE BLACK BEAR

Black bears can be found in nearly every corner of North America and have been spotted in every county and city in Virginia. Sightings are becoming more frequent in our area as the bears' habitat shrinks and they learn to survive in suburban settings.

Typically, mature black bears in the area weigh 125 to 200 pounds. The largest black bear ever recorded was found in North Carolina and weighed 880 pounds.

Black bears are abundant in the western part of Virginia. During the 2008-09 hunting season, 2,204 were killed across the state.

A male bear can have a home range of up to 290 square miles. This is the time of year when 1-year-old bears leave their mothers and search for their own territories--a rite of passage that could lead one to a grocery store parking lot, for example.

According to district wildlife biologist Mike Dye, most black bears in the area are found on or near large undeveloped swaths of land like Marine Corps Base Quantico and the easement along the Rappahannock River.
If a bear is spotted in a residential area, it is usually lured there by the promise of food. Typically, bears look for bird feeders and garbage cans.

"They don't want to fight or cause problems with people," said Dye. "They're looking for easy meals."

If you don't want a bear in your backyard, remove outdoor food sources, such as pet food, and keep garbage in an enclosed location, such as a garage.

Without those attractions, bears usually move on, but if you want to scare one off, try making loud noises or even throwing things like golf balls. Best of all, Dye said, is a paintball gun, if local ordinances allow them in your neighborhood.

"Basically, you want to make them feel as unwelcome as possible," Dye said.

THE COYOTE

Unlike black bears, which are native to Virginia, coyotes are thought to have been introduced to the state by humans. Coyotes appeared on the West Virginia border in the 1950s, and complaints started popping up in western counties in the early '80s.

Despite their relatively recent arrival, coyotes are a highly adaptive species and are found across the country. Males can grow up to 45 pounds and range 15 to 28 miles from their home dens.

"The population is increasing," Dye said. "They're filling a niche. They are able to find food sources, and they're thriving."

Like black bears, coyotes don't normally pose a threat to humans. But they are considered a nuisance species under Virginia law because they sometimes kill domestic animals.

Coyotes are opportunistic eaters that feed primarily on rodents and rabbits, although they will eat berries and carrion. Again, removing food sources should keep them away from your home. Dye said the doglike animals are frequently struck and killed by cars.

"There isn't really a risk to coyotes being around," Dye said. "They're more interested in finding a meal than messing with people. They are able to make a good home in suburban areas, and they'll probably stick around."

BruceRDucer
July 12, 2009, 12:52 AM
////



This is why most people I know that spend time in bear country carry a .45-70 slung over their shoulder rather than mess with handguns.
__________________Texas Rifleman

The .45-70 would sure save all that screwing around.

/

Blue .45
July 12, 2009, 02:35 AM
Then he tucked the gun beneath the bear's chin. But it quit. Wyckoff, left-handed, said he had accidentally released the ammunition clip.

I'm not too familiar with 1911 model pistols. Do they have a magazine disconnect safety, or can they still fire with the magazine removed?

It might not have made a difference, but I would hate to think he had a round in the chamber, but couldn't use it, because the magazine fell out.

IdahoLT1
July 12, 2009, 03:43 AM
When most people here .338, they automatically think of the .338 Lapua or the .338 Win mag. These two cartridges should literally destroy a shoulder of a +350lb black bear. I would wager the .338 used was a .338 Federal, which is basically a .308 Winchester necked up to a .338 caliber. It might have the muzzle energy of a 7mm Remington mag, but at 100yds, might fall around .30-06 power.

They say its good for black bear, but, personally, i would wait 30min -1hr if the first shot didnt drop the bear.

ScareyH22A
July 12, 2009, 05:04 AM
Lol, there was some guy that thought his light and comfortable .38 was the perfect backcountry handgun.

jon_in_wv
July 12, 2009, 09:17 AM
Personally I wouldn't feel undergunned with a 10mm with very hard and heavy bullets but then again we don't have grizzlies in our area. People are faulting the semi auto design saying, "I'd carry a revolver if dangerous game are involved" Whats the difference with a self defense piece? Are you saying a semi is good enough against a violent human attacker but not an animal? Chances are if the guy in the article had been jumped by a human he may have punched the mag release then too. I do agree a heavier CALIBER is in order in that instance and a double action 44 mag or better would be a better choice than a 45acp semi auto. But that is comparing apples to oranges.

harmonic
July 12, 2009, 10:27 AM
I'm not too familiar with 1911 model pistols. Do they have a magazine disconnect safety, or can they still fire with the magazine removed?


They can still fire but you only have one shot left with the mag removed.

KenWP
July 12, 2009, 10:43 AM
I find it hard to believe that any black bear attacked after being shot at. I have scared one up at a couple of feet even and they just run. They don't wait around to be shot at again. Even following a wounded black bear is pretty safe as they just want to get away from you. They compare to a white tail deer when hunting them.

jon_in_wv
July 12, 2009, 10:47 AM
????? So you think the story is a fake?

Vern Humphrey
July 12, 2009, 10:54 AM
I find it hard to believe that any black bear attacked after being shot at.
Not long ago, we had a case in Arkansas where someone shot a bear with a .22, and the bear took time out of his busy schedule to educate the fool.

Shear_stress
July 12, 2009, 11:27 AM
I am absolutely stunned that a thread about a fight with a bear could turn into a Glock vs. 1911 argument.

A Glock would not do. And obviously neither would a 1911. The gentleman needed a cannon of some sort, not a handgun of any description. If I knew I was wading into a brawl with a wounded bear, I would opt for a double in .577 Nitro. Or maybe I would just stay in bed.

Yeah, seriously. The topic sentence of this thread is "bear survived hit with .338, so what handgun is good for bear"(??!!)

usmc1371
July 12, 2009, 12:09 PM
I guess I am glad the two black bears I have shot both died within a few feet of where they were standing. I take fallowing ANY wounded animal very seriously esp one that is armed well enough to make a meal out of me. I carry my 1911 when I am hunting most of the time but if a bear has me on the menue it will be holsterd until 300wm runs dry. I think any side arm is better than NO side arm but if its your ONLY weapon you probably should choose one more suited to the task at hand ie ( I's going to track a bear that brushed off a shot from a "338" should I grab a gun I would actuly use to hunt said bear or my LAMA compact 45?). Seriously if one of my firends calls me and says he hit a bear with a reasonable cal rifle and needs help tracking it I'm taking the cz 375, besides when else would I have a reason to carry a 375 in oregon.

benEzra
July 12, 2009, 12:32 PM
Quote:
A black bear was hit and killed by a car near Winnipeg Canada, in 2001. The official recorded weight was 856.5 pounds, but it is estimated that the live weight of this large male was more than 886 pounds. The driver was not injured and there appeared to be little damage to the Mazda.

Quote:
So I am thinking of packing a Mazda in addition to my .44, .30-30, and pepper spray!
I sense a new thread coming on...

"Which Car for Bear? Mazda vs. Buick"

Fodder for the "1911 is only for experts" thread...
I can't tell, but is that an extended magazine release on that pistol, or a stock release?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/Noel3006/bilde.jpg

If it's an extended release, I suppose this would be a good argument against extended mag releases on defensive guns...

paintballdude902
July 12, 2009, 01:52 PM
Also I saw a 500 lb. black in NC once. I don't know if it was implied the 650 lb. bear was really big for NC. It might be but I know they grown them to 500 lbs. there

what part of nc?

around here that tends to be a little above average

they say that witht he warmer temps here the bear are bigger since they dont hybernate

Double Naught Spy
July 12, 2009, 05:39 PM
Wounded Black Bear attacks hunter, hunter responds with .45
Did you read the story? it wasn't the "hunter" who was attacked, these dudes with pistolas were called in to track a wounded bear after the fact and their main gun should have been a long gun either a shotgun or rifle.

"These dudes with pistolas" where therefore hunters if they were going after a wounded bear.

Something to get straight here. This bear didn't attack the hunters. This bear was defending itself against the hunters. If we changed the story to show that these were people and that the bear was a good guy who had been shot and was being pursued by bad guys, his use of lethal force against them would have been considered defensive.

People will call this a bear attack, but it is nothing more than a bear defense against more numerous forces who had guns and were trying to kill it.

Vern Humphrey
July 12, 2009, 05:42 PM
Ascribing human characteristics to non-humans is called "the pathetic fallacy."

The bear is not human. It is a wild animal, and given the population density of both bears and humans, bears have to be hunted. Leaving a wounded animal -- especially a dangerous animal -- is not ethical. Hunters have a duty to hunt down and dispatch animals in this condition.

.38 Special
July 12, 2009, 05:50 PM
If we changed the story to show that these were people and that the bear was a good guy who had been shot and was being pursued by bad guys, his use of lethal force against them would have been considered defensive.

And if we changed the story to show that these were marshmallows and that the bear was a campfire that had been started by Boy Scouts, we could have s'mores and a singalong.

ChCx2744
July 12, 2009, 05:50 PM
BAH PISH POSH! Everyone knows that REAL men hunt bears with a few feet of nylon rope and a sharp, broken rock. :D

Blue .45
July 12, 2009, 08:45 PM
harmonic wrote:
They can still fire but you only have one shot left with the mag removed

Thanks. This being the case, the chamber must have already been empty at the time he placed the gun under the bear's chin.

BTW, is there any such thing as a hunting load for the .45 ACP?

Double Naught Spy
July 12, 2009, 09:58 PM
Looks like a Llama commander-style 1911.

No, that is an officer's model. You won't get a much shorter barrel on a 1911 or shorter grip. Talk about the WRONG GUN for the job. And it is a Llama on top of that. Llamas are not exactly known for outstanding quality control.

And if we changed the story to show that these were marshmallows and that the bear was a campfire that had been started by Boy Scouts, we could have s'mores and a singalong.

I like sing-alongs, thank you. However, the notion that the bear attacked the hunters is pretty lame and seems to indicate that that bear is the aggressor in this story when in fact it was the other way around. Somebody shot a bear and wasn't able to kill it and so a bunch of yahoo "hunters" went after it and stupidly let the bear get the upper hand because they weren't prepared and made bad choices.

The bear didn't attack these hunters anymore than a CCW person shooting at a bad guy coming after him with a deadly weapon "attacked" the bad guy.

harmonic
July 12, 2009, 10:28 PM
is there any such thing as a hunting load for the .45 ACP?

For bear? You can beef them up pretty hot, but I prefer to not walk around with a slide protruding from my skull. It's better to simply take an appropriate caliber/sidearm for the job.

IdahoLT1
July 13, 2009, 01:05 AM
Thanks. This being the case, the chamber must have already been empty at the time he placed the gun under the bear's chin.

BTW, is there any such thing as a hunting load for the .45 ACP?

I dont rcall what thread it was, but one member on this board is a hunting guide and took some out of state hunters on numerous hunting trips. they were trying to hunt black bear with .45's. Most took 3 or 4 shots, if i remember correctly, to bring down a tree'd bear.

Personally, the .45 is better than shaking a stick, but id take a full framed 10mm or a magnum caliber revolver. I would take bear mace over a compact .45.

.38 Special
July 13, 2009, 01:08 AM
I like sing-alongs, thank you. However, the notion that the bear attacked the hunters is pretty lame and seems to indicate that that bear is the aggressor in this story when in fact it was the other way around. Somebody shot a bear and wasn't able to kill it and so a bunch of yahoo "hunters" went after it and stupidly let the bear get the upper hand because they weren't prepared and made bad choices.

The bear didn't attack these hunters anymore than a CCW person shooting at a bad guy coming after him with a deadly weapon "attacked" the bad guy.

So I take it you have something against s'mores.

1911Tuner
July 13, 2009, 09:17 AM
Not long ago, we had a case in Arkansas where someone shot a bear with a .22, and the bear took time out of his busy schedule to educate the fool.

Ai'ght! You owe me one shorted out keyboard...

Black bears can be pretty cantankerous, depending on the circumstances...and are perfectly capable of ruining your day. Shooting a large one in a non-vital place is a little like kickin' Rocky Marciano on the shin. You haven't hurt him much, but you've surely got his attention.

For my 2% of a buck...tracking a wounded bear...any wounded bear over 150 pounds...with a handgun below .454 Casull power level is idiocy. Machismo like that will get a mudhole stomped in ya right quick.

Vern Humphrey
July 13, 2009, 10:36 AM
However, the notion that the bear attacked the hunters is pretty lame and seems to indicate that that bear is the aggressor in this story when in fact it was the other way around.
Now that we've had our daily dose of political correctness, can we go back to the discussion at hand?

1911Tuner
July 13, 2009, 10:50 AM
Now that we've had our daily dose of political correctness, can we go back to the discussion at hand

Much as I agree...he's technically correct. If they hadn't been out there dinkin' around with the bear, they wouldn't have been attacked. I will never get shark bit, 'cause me an' the sharks got us an agreement. I don't get in the ocean, and they don't come into my yard.

:D

Playin' witcha, Vern. I'm in a weird frame of mind today...

xXxplosive
July 13, 2009, 10:51 AM
This doesn't surprise me at all............did much bear hunting in '71, '72 in Northern Maine....most bear guides will tell you, if you don't kill the bear with the first shot, you will be emptying the magazine into him. And I refering here to rifles not handguns. Bears have a massive adrennelin surge when injured and can absorb a huge amount of lead to put them down unless you hit the brain or spine.
Once shot a bear running broad side about 25 ' away with a Marlin 444 Cal. lever action rifle....took out his liver and intestines which were on the ground.
The bear still had enough strength to go up a mountain and into his bear den/cave where we finally found him dead and dragged him out. Had to plug the gapping wound with a folded tree branch to carry him out.

Just an amazing amount of strength displayed by that animal.....

Double Naught Spy
July 13, 2009, 11:59 AM
Now that we've had our daily dose of political correctness, can we go back to the discussion at hand?

What political correctness? I am just talking about a matter of correct terminology. It would be no different than somebody calling that Llama pistol a .45 Colt lever gun, which it obviously isn't.

Ascribing human characteristics to non-humans is called "the pathetic fallacy."

The bear is not human. It is a wild animal, and given the population density of both bears and humans, bears have to be hunted. Leaving a wounded animal -- especially a dangerous animal -- is not ethical. Hunters have a duty to hunt down and dispatch animals in this condition.

And since we are on the topic of correctness, the pathetic fallacy is not the attribution of human characteristics to animals, but to inanimate or non-living objects, which the bear is not (at least while it was alive).

Nobody suggested leaving the bear as wounded. After the bear was wounded by the hunters, the hunters pressed their attack on the bear, apparently in a stupid fashion with less than adequate weaponry and situational awareness and one got hurt as a result of the bear protecting itself from its attackers.

mbt2001
July 13, 2009, 12:36 PM
Bears are "dangerous game" for a reason. I am not surprised that the bear absorbed that kind of lead and kept coming. In a do or die scenario we are talking seconds. Most likely that bear was a dead man walking, but in the 10 or so seconds it had left...

1911Tuner
July 13, 2009, 12:54 PM
Most likely that bear was a dead man walking, but in the 10 or so seconds it had left...

Yep. In 10 seconds, a wounded, enraged bear can completly wreck the future quality of your life.

rhoggman
July 13, 2009, 02:08 PM
3 rounds from a 45 is not exactly a lot of lead when you are a bear.

I think the results of a necropsy would be very valuable in determining what wounds this bear actually suffered prior to being shot in the head at point blank range with a 44 mag.

Personally I tend to believe that other than the 44 mag stomach shot this bear was not hurting too bad.

You can say... "the bear was shot in the shoulder with a .338, and 3 times with a 45 ACP, but until you know where the bullets really hit, and if the shots were solid shots it is all meaningless. Did they find any entry/ exit wounds minus the 2 44 mag hits?

Bottom line is 45 ACP & anything with bear in it just sounds stupid to me. 45 ACP is notorious for not penetrating body armor. Anything in the ballistic world inferior to a 357 Mag should not even be considered for big game "defense".

I'm not saying a clip of 45 ACP would not do the trick, but is there a good reason not to carry a 44 mag if a pistol is going to be your big game defense weapon? Personally, I would rather have a 12 gauge with some SSTs in the tube, but you can bet your buttocks my sidearm will be a redhawk with 6 in the cylinder.

mbt2001
July 13, 2009, 03:27 PM
Well the first round was (I reckon) a decent enough hit to put the bear in SHOCK so that the .45 rounds didn't have any discernible effect.

My experience is that when you shoot and animal and it charges follow up shots that are not to bones (hips, collar / shoulder areas) or the central nervous system do not have much effect.

When Hog hunting and you shoot hog and he runs into bushes you usually wait 30 min or so to go and get him. The reason is that the shot you made "killed" the hog, but the bloody hog didn't get the memo yet. Same with bears. I usually carry a sidearm for that purpose. Thick brush and rifles do not always go together. Throw in a sling and it is double trouble.

Unless I am going for LARGE hogs, I carry whatever I feel like on the day of the hunt. Usually it is a .357, but it has been a .44 / .22 / 9mm / .45 / .38 in the past. They all served fine for the INTENDED purpose of side arm. The only handguns I would HUNT with are the .357 and 44

rhoggman
July 13, 2009, 04:10 PM
Notice in the article the bear stalked them for 3 hours after the initial "shot". I highly doubt this bear was in shock. I'm more apt to believe the "shoulder hit" was superficial, and basically a non player in this story. 3 hours is enough time for any animal to bleed to death from a body shot even if it were not an ideal hit. Going into shock from a gunshot wound is a direct result of blood loss. The fact that the bear stalked them, and circled them fr a long period of time tell me that this animal was already winning the game. The hunted and the hunter in this story are twisted rounds.

Like I say it is only my guessing, but my guesswork tells me these folks did not have a "dead bear walking" or a significantly wounded animal. They also could not find a blood trail.

We have a joke for people who take bad shots. After we walking around for hours trying to find an animal that has been squarely hit we sit around the campfire and tell stories about that "dead deer on the loose".

In the case of a bear. You had better damn sure know that it is dying before you go tromping around looking for it.

As in your advice... wait 30 min.... go look for blood.... If you cannot find ANY blood.... You probably should go home and sleep it off. Maybe come back at day break to figure out what happened. Maybe this would not be the ideal method for all animals, but for a bear, I would require some blood on the ground before I started running around in the woods looking for the bear that ain't bleeding. At least with some blood you know the animal has been hit. Then IMO it is your obligation to do everything you can to find the animal.

eye5600
July 13, 2009, 05:00 PM
Maybe the guy should have spent some more time at the range. A good shot from a .338, .45, or .44 mag with the right bullet should drop an animal that size. Carry what you can shoot the best, a rifle, pistol or whatever.

This is called failing to learn from other people's experience.

shooterfromtexas
July 13, 2009, 05:18 PM
45 is too slow........

JohnnyOrygun
July 13, 2009, 05:59 PM
I was thinking this happened in Washington, since it was a Seattle paper... but then I did something, I read the article! Whoa, imagine my shock when I find out this article was quoted from my local paper! I live in Douglas County Oregon, my friend just shot a big black bear this last spring. We have a lot of black bears around here, I almost ran over one several years ago while my buddy and I were changing locations while elk hunting, all I saw was a black blur and my friend yelling "Bear!!".

While I love my 1911, I don't think it's enough for protection from bear. Since I don't have a 44, if I am in the woods I carry my King Cobra in 357, while 357 maybe marginal for defense against bears, it's better then 45.

In the end I am just glad that he survived and from the article it sounds like, for someone who was mauled by a bear, he actually got off pretty light. No arteries hit or tendons torn. So all in all, God was looking out for him.

JohnnyOrygun

mgregg85
July 13, 2009, 11:05 PM
I don't know of any gun that I could carry that I would feel comfortable using against a charging bear. If I had to pick one(a legal to own one, ie not a machine gun) I'd take a Marlin Guide gun.

People have killed bears with pieces of firewood though, so its really more about where you hit them and a lot of luck.

cassandrasdaddy
July 14, 2009, 12:18 AM
some old boy let the air outa a bear with a knife a few years back

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1023312/posts

http://neveryetmelted.com/2006/07/23/55-year-old-ontario-man-kills-bear-with-knife/

Five-O
July 14, 2009, 12:57 AM
- - a woman in VT died and her honda CRX was totaled when she hit a moose at night <snip> Problem with hitting a moose with a CRX is that you basically knee-cap it, and then the body/trunk falls through the windshield and into your lap. After I heard that story, I got a VERY big sedan <snip
Around 1990 I was sleeping in the back seat of my cousin's Olds sedan while on our way from Anchorage to the Kenai for some salmon fishing. It was very eary in the morning and still dark. I awoke, and shortly started talking about how dumb moose are. Suddenly a large female appeared right in front of the car. My cousing applied brake but still hit the moose sending it over the hood, sliding back, hitting the windshield. There was not enough speed to send it smashing through the windshield but it was smashed. The moose continued sliding across to the passenger side taking off the radio antenna. It landed on the road, got up a little shaken, and slowly walked away. We stopped and got out to see if it had been killed. She just looked at us for a few seconds, probably thinking, "dumb driver" and dissappeared into the brush. Had I been sitting in the front seat, and had there been more car speed, it may have gone through the windshield and I would now be looking down from above wondering, "why me?":)

mbt2001
July 14, 2009, 06:30 PM
Who knows if the story they tell is true, but if that bear really did start circling around on them, to hunt them, I would have taken a tip from the Indians and gone to a sweat lodge after the confrontation was decided. Bears do not usually act that way. There are legends of dead warriors that have come back as bears or wolves to count coup though...

Just saying....

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