A question about 1:8 vs. 1:9 twist in a AR-15


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P.B.Walsh
July 10, 2009, 05:09 PM
I am wanting to buy a kit + lower because of the cheaper cost, and I got a question. The two kits I am looking at is a Del-Ton middy with a 1:9, and a Model 1 sales standard 20" kit with a 1:8.

The Del-Ton is ~$420, and the Model 1 is $585 with the SS fluted 1:8 or $535 with a SS 1:8. Either kit will go with a DSA Spartan 5.56 lower.

Is the 1:8 worth the extra money?

Thanks,
P.B.Walsh

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browningguy
July 10, 2009, 05:12 PM
I don't think the twist rate has anything to do with pricing, it's more to do with the stainless and fluting adding to the pricing. Unfortunately I don't have enough experience with either one to offer a valid opinion on quality and accuracy.

Jim Watson
July 10, 2009, 05:25 PM
You going to want to shoot 75-80 grain bullets? If so, get the 8.

FlyinBryan
July 10, 2009, 05:30 PM
i know someone who got the model one sales 20" bull and its accuracy was average at best. not enough to justify the extra weight. he sold it and got a 16"hbar and its just as, if not more accurate and much handier.

edit. his was an ershaw barrel assembled on an upper.

i would get the delton, regardless of the twist.

ugaarguy
July 10, 2009, 05:31 PM
Let's back up a minute. First, what do you want to use this AR for? Second, within that use do you prefer a carbine or a rifle length barrel? Third, do you have a need or want to use either heavy for caliber (over 69 gr.) or light for caliber (under 50 gr.) bullets for some application like taking down coyotes, shooting small vermin, etc? Fourth, how much of a concern to you is weight? The answers to those questions will help you select the proper barrelled upper.

P.B.Walsh
July 10, 2009, 06:11 PM
Well, sorry, I should have said what I planned to do, well, I'll be target shooting, and *VERY* close range deer hunting. Weight is not a concern, last year I hunted with a 10lb. rifle, and this year it'll be a 11-13lb rifle.

Of all the gas systms, I like the look of the mid-lenght, in a 16". Since I've heard that I will not be losing any accuaccy from a 20" to a 16", I would prefer the 16" for all of the positives of the shorter lenght.

Do I need to get a chrome-lined barrel? I have to get a SS 1:8 with the Model 1 rifle.

Thanks again,
P.B.Walsh

FlyinBryan
July 10, 2009, 07:30 PM
Since I've heard that I will not be losing any accuaccy from a 20" to a 16", I would prefer the 16"

this is for the most part true if you buy a quality barrel. however, i think if you stick to lower end models, longer might be a little more accurate. a quality 16" barrel will outshoot a lower end longer barrel.

Do I need to get a chrome-lined barrel?
they are easier to maintain, and will maintain their performance longer. its commonly said that chrome lined barrels sacrifice a little accuracy, and it might be true, but it wouldnt be an issue until you were wanting consistent 1/2moa. middle to upper end barrels that are chrome lined wont have a problem shooting m.o.a. and will do it for a long time.

i think a nice middle ground on accuracy vs weight are the 16" hbar barrels. i went from a 20" dcm match rifle to the 16" hbar and honestly cant see a loss in accuracy. it also weighs only a few ounces more than the popular m4 profile, so for me its been the best of both worlds. its fairly quick handling, and shoots 1moa pretty easily. (5 shot groups)

lol, there are so many different configurations a fella can pull his hair out trying to decide which to get.

check out the june and july ar matches. lots of good info in there, as well as a few rifles that will shoot sub1" @ 200 YARDS!!!

P.B.Walsh
July 10, 2009, 08:21 PM
Del-Ton has Wilson Arms barrels, would you concider these lower, middle, or higher end barrels?

FlyinBryan
July 10, 2009, 09:54 PM
i think you would be happy with anything from delton.

ive heard far more good things about them than bad.

i have definitly heard bad things about model 1 barrels. helz mcfugly on this board tried a 24" fluted e.r. shaw barrel, and it was not what should be expected from a fluted 24" bull barrel. then he sent it back thinking it was just a bad barrel and got another one, this time a 20" fluted stainless, and it was the same story. 1.5-2" 100yrd groups, which aint exactly chopped liver, but he expected more from 10 lbs worth of barrel, and i dont blame him. he then got a 16" cmmg hbar and loves it. its half the weight, more accurate, and much more versitile.

maybe not exactly the info you were looking for but figured id share it, and maybe you could use it.

bryan.

P.B.Walsh
July 10, 2009, 10:25 PM
Ok, Del-Ton is cheaper anyways.

What grain is good for a 1:9 twist?

Thanks again,
P.B.Walsh

gvnwst
July 10, 2009, 10:28 PM
What grain is good for a 1:9 twist?Anything up to 70gr, and some 75gr bullets.

jaholder1971
July 10, 2009, 10:32 PM
I'd go with a 1:8 at least, especially in a short barrel.

If you ever want to shoot heavier bullets, which you will want to consider if you're deer hunting, a 1:9 may not stabilize them in a short barrel. There's plenty of evidence where 1:9 twist M4geries couldn't stabilize 75 grain Hornady bullets.

I've personally found little difference in accuracy using light bullets in fast twist rifles. One of my 100 yard practice loads when I was shooting HP was a 50 grain HP in a 1:8 Wilson. Avoid the paperthin jackets and maximum velocities and you'll be fine.

marsche
July 10, 2009, 10:36 PM
What GVNWST said plus - my 1/9 Bushy loves 75 grain AMAX and 77 grain Nosler Custom Competition....but, they are NOT hunting bullets!

P.B.Walsh
July 10, 2009, 10:39 PM
Ok, thanks to all, I just wish that I could get a 1:8 from Del-Ton. :)

Thanks,
P.B.Walsh

atomd
July 10, 2009, 10:43 PM
The .223 is not a popular deer hunting round. Some states won't even let you use the .223 I believe. Heck, most of us would tell you to use something else no matter where you lived anyways. Regardless...I think most people out there will be using mostly 55 grain fmj 99% of the time to begin with. Almost all the plinking ammo on the market is 55. The 1:9 is fine for that.

I would only consider something else if my AR was for long range target shooting. Then I would buy a longer stainless barrel in 1:7. For self defense, even shooting some heavier hornady tap or something like that...in your house from across your bedroom...with a 1:9...the last thing you should worry about is the twist rate of your barrel. Sheesh.

Short story: Fit the barrel to your specific needs.

P.B.Walsh
July 10, 2009, 10:56 PM
Well, until I could hit a 1" circle at 100 yards without a bench, I WILL NOT take this rifle hunting, this is for VERY close range head/neck shots when my 4-16 power scope is too much magnification, so I'm talking 50 yards or less usually, and I'll have to practice alot before I feel confident enough to take it in the field. Hope this clears things up, because until I can become that proficient, I'll happily use my .308 Remington 700. :)

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