the movie Shooter-i know you have all seen it...


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Skillet
July 10, 2009, 07:35 PM
okay, in the movie shooter with Mark Whalberg, he proves he is innocent by putting another firing pin inside of the rifle or something so it does not fire at all.
how on earth does he do this? is it another firing pin or does the rifle just not have a firing pin or is a filed down firing pin or something?
and, what does he shoot the can of stew with?
and, what does he shoot the chopper down with when he is on the cliff?
questions, questions, questions.
thanks!:cool:

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freakshow10mm
July 10, 2009, 07:38 PM
He says he takes the firing pin out of all his guns every time he leaves the house.

Precision Paper Puncher
July 10, 2009, 08:05 PM
.408 cheytac caliber, CheyTac M-200 intervention was the rifle

.308 caliber M40 and a Barrett M82 .50 bmg in the beginning...

he replaces the firing pin in all his guns with a shorter one, looks right with the naked eye, but needs a micrometer to verify...



you would have to have a firing pin in it in order to cock it... other wise you are just moving a bolt, and wouldn't hear a click when you pull the trigger.


here look at all the rest of the guns...
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Shooter

gvnwst
July 10, 2009, 08:35 PM
Barrett M82 .50 bmg in the beginning...
Couldn't have been! He was cocking it after every shot, the M82 is semi auto!

;) :D


Really now, the stupidity of some of the gun scenes of that movie astounded me.

P.B.Walsh
July 10, 2009, 08:48 PM
Mabey the Barret had alot of dust in it..?.?..?.?.???, I thought it was the single shot Barret at first myself...?.?

gvnwst
July 10, 2009, 09:29 PM
Mabey the Barret had alot of dust in it..?.?..?.?.???, I thought it was the single shot Barret at first myself...?.?
No, actually, every time he fired, it automatically cocked. THEN he cocked it again. I have not seen the whole movie (only about half a hour), but i am not sure i want to. Head shots at 900yd, on a target moving 30 MPH, with a .308...as close to impossible as it gets.

Precision Paper Puncher
July 10, 2009, 09:33 PM
you tell me...

http://www.imfdb.org/images/2/28/S-M82.jpg

jordan1948
July 10, 2009, 09:49 PM
I'm fairly certain it was a semi-auto and he just cocked it again anyways.
.408 cheytac caliber, CheyTac M-200 intervention was the rifle

.308 caliber M40
Which one was it? The .308 or the .408?

gvnwst
July 10, 2009, 09:59 PM
Which one was it? The .308 or the .408?

He was answering 2 different questions. ;)

P.B.Walsh
July 10, 2009, 10:35 PM
.408 against the can of soup, .308 against humans, .50 against the helicopter.

Yea, .308, 900 yards, 30mph, headshots, YEA RIGHT, ACT OF GOD!!!! Be friggin cool to see in real life (but moving paper, not real heads)!!!!!! :)

SharpsDressedMan
July 10, 2009, 10:53 PM
What puzzles me is where the hell was the FBI's CSI division? Once the tekkies get their hands on a rifle, don't they do a ballistic test to see if it has been used in some other crime, and get all that ballistic data for the court presentation? Wouldn't they have then noticed that it wouldn't fire? Kind of shoots a hole in the big dramatic attorney general scene.

jordan1948
July 10, 2009, 11:03 PM
What puzzles me is where the hell was the FBI's CSI division? Once the tekkies get their hands on a rifle, don't they do a ballistic test to see if it has been used in some other crime, and get all that ballistic data for the court presentation? Wouldn't they have then noticed that it wouldn't fire? Kind of shoots a hole in the big dramatic attorney general scene. Supposedly it was a cover up so they wouldn't want any "real" evidence that he did it and second they said their was no need to test fire the rifle because the round that was recovered was too mangled to do a comparison.

Precision Paper Puncher
July 10, 2009, 11:15 PM
precisely....


it was a decent movie for those that aren't gun nuts like ourselves....


i got shushed a couple of times for pointing out the obvious....

THE DARK KNIGHT
July 10, 2009, 11:25 PM
list of all guns used in the movie Shooter:

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Shooter

gondorian
July 10, 2009, 11:29 PM
I've heard that the 50 was semi auto but the action had to be cycled b/c blanks were used, I never watched the whole movie though

jordan1948
July 10, 2009, 11:50 PM
I've heard that the 50 was semi auto but the action had to be cycled b/c blanks were used Quite possible.
it was a decent movie for those that aren't gun nuts like ourselves
I wonder how good a movie would be if hollywood picked a handfull of the members here help make a movie?

Precision Paper Puncher
July 10, 2009, 11:57 PM
well it would definitely be more consistent between scene takes....

in the move American History X, when the black guys try to steal the radio out of his dad's truck and he opens fire....

a total of 23 times....? c'mon now, be real with it.

ken B
July 11, 2009, 12:02 AM
plus the cocking makes it look 'tacti-cooool' to the uninformed LOL

I loved the book, and the movie was ok, but the book was COOL...

I've seen some other movies where the blanks didn't operate the action, one in paticular was a 1911A1, but it escapes me the title

Precision Paper Puncher
July 11, 2009, 12:05 AM
ever notice in the movie super troopers when they are at the range, and ramathorn goes to shoot the gun (glock) makes a racking sound, but it never happens....

danweasel
July 11, 2009, 12:14 AM
I wonder how good a movie would be if hollywood picked a handfull of the members here help make a movie?

Maybe too boring. I like my movies stars to shoot holes in large amounts of people while nose-wheelieing a crotch rocket past an exploding fuel tanker at 70MPH! But seriously, it's only entertainment. The only thing that I think really sucks is when they can't get the army stuff right. Like ranks and radio comms, tactics and just general conversations etc... It is all common knowledge and so many people have been in the military you would think it was simple. No biggie though.

Really though, I love this movie. "I'm a US Senator". "Exactly" BOOM! Hahaha.

jordan1948
July 11, 2009, 12:17 AM
"I'm a US Senator". "Exactly" BOOM! Hahaha lol refer to my sig

sarduy
July 11, 2009, 12:30 AM
If you guys want to watch a very realistic gun movie, watch...


Black Hawk Down
The Kingdom
The Hurt Locker

Uncle Mike
July 11, 2009, 12:36 AM
i got shushed a couple of times for pointing out the obvious....

Don't you hate that.... my wife will leave sometimes due to my second hand narration...:neener:

Oh well, cocking that Barrett every shot just plain old sucked.... was that a nightforce scope on top of that 50?

:D

crawdaddy
July 11, 2009, 12:47 AM
Just finished the book (Point of Impact) on which the movie was based.

"how on earth does he do this? is it another firing pin or does the rifle just not have a firing pin or is a filed down firing pin or something?"

in the book he modifies the firing pin I won't say how in case someone here wants to read it. The book is definitely worth reading.

velojym
July 11, 2009, 12:49 AM
According to the book, he removed the firing pin, cut it midway, and welded it back together in order to leave the striker end intact. That way ( I suppose ) a casual inspection would find nothing amiss.
Entirely different rifle in the book, anyway.

Precision Paper Puncher
July 11, 2009, 01:56 AM
the kingdom was a good movie, a little long, and detailed but worth the wait...

thanks for title of the book, I'll have to order it for those out of town trips, when the hotel premium cable consists of no channels you desire to watch...



and about the shushing, my wife doesn't mind at all, it is the people around who could care less what really happened, or how it works or whatever. while at the same time sayin " i'da put a cap in dat ni@@&5 ass wit mah foety, while making a sideways motion holding a gun...

my reply is i'll give you three shots to hit me, i promise i will only return one....

Birdmang
July 11, 2009, 02:03 AM
Its a movie. Damn.

Paradiddle
July 11, 2009, 01:30 PM
read the book - the movie blew pretty hard compared to the novel.

uvausmc
July 11, 2009, 03:07 PM
If you guys want to watch a very realistic gun movie, watch...


Black Hawk Down
The Kingdom
The Hurt Locker
i'll agree with black hawk down and possibly the kingdom but if you're looking for any more than entertainment from "Hurt Locker" dont bother. It is entertaining but it is completely off when it comes to how EOD operates. My EOD buddies said the whole thing was a joke.

it does have some great scenes of an M82 in action though.

Quilbilly
July 11, 2009, 04:21 PM
It was a good movie....but it was still a MOVIE!

1858rem
July 11, 2009, 04:41 PM
i want to know what power scope Swager is using to shoot the soup can....that he can even see the can at 1000 yards. i thought a sniper might consider a 10X scope max because of weight limitations and general bulk of the rifle. i have a 9X nikon prostaff on my .204 ruger and am certain the crosshair would cover the can at 500 yards.....i mean sure, i was hitting 12oz cans at 325 yards....but i could hardly see them and much farther out i wouldnt have been able to. :neener:



can someone post a pic of him lining up the sight on the soup can(it is pretty cool scene), then maybe use an object of known size in the scene to determine the field of view and translate that to whatever power scope he was using?

ParaElite
July 11, 2009, 04:52 PM
I've shot at 1000 yards with a Unertl 16x scope (externally adjustable target telescope) with a Remington 40 XB in 300 Win Mag with a sling. On that particular day I shot 3 Xs in a row and a few others later on. The X ring is 10 inches across I believe. Shooting moving targets the size of a human head - not likely! I have shot at moving targets out to 600 meters and it is possible to get body sized hits. My friend who was a civilian shooter - 45 years old shooting a 30-338 and he scored 200 (clean) with 15 Xs. The record at that time was 17 Xs out of 20 shots held by a USAMU shooter - I think.

The Shooter movie is just that, a movie - in the business, it is called "suspension of disbelief". The reason why they allow bipods in long range competition (some special events-F class) is because not everyone can shoot with a sling -- not even military snipers! Not every sniper is an expert long-range competitive shooter. Not every long-range competitive shooter is a sniper. A few men stand out as having been both, Carlos Hathcock was one such man.

I doubt that there is a sniper alive that can shoot with the consistency of a David Tubb.

1858rem
July 11, 2009, 05:11 PM
i do like a bipod, do you think a sling would be as capable as a bipod once someone became proficient with using it, not a pro or anything but just pretty good?

clemsonu0219
July 11, 2009, 05:13 PM
Good messup in the bourne ultimatum...

Towards the end when bourne is talking to the guy who tortured him or whatever, he is holding a gun to the guys head (a glock). Then there was a flashback for about 2 minutes, comes back, he's holding a sig to the guys head. :)

1858
July 11, 2009, 05:14 PM
I've watched "Shooter" five or maybe six times and enjoy it for what it is ... a good story, cool firearms and the incredibly smokin' Sarah Fenn (played by Kate Mara) :D . My wife was the first to notice that Kate's top is see-through when she first meets Swagger ... naturally, I couldn't help but notice every time after that!! And what's up with Danny Glover's teeth ... with all his money you'd think that he could afford some decent dentures.

There are a number of firearms related errors, but the two errors that immediately jumped out at me are when Swagger says ...

"expect the bullet to be handmade, bronzed alloy, turned on a lathe, slightly lower ballistics coefficient, touch more slippery, that's what I would do."

Why would you LOWER the BC for a long range shot? A lower BC would result in a "less slippery" projectile.

"You know what it takes to make a shot at that range? Everything comes into play that far, humidity, elevation, temperature, wind, spin drift, the six to ten second flight time, even the Coriolis Effect, the spin of the earth, comes into play".

Humidity has ZERO affect on a bullet in flight. The Coriolis Effect has ZERO affect if you're shooting in a direction perpendicular to the earth's rotation, and negligible affect for the worse case scenario when you're shooting in a direction parallel to the earth's rotation. Either way, neither humidity nor the CE are relevant.

Still, I like the movie and will watch it many more times I'm sure.

:)

gvnwst
July 11, 2009, 05:18 PM
Humidity has ZERO affect on a bullet in flight. Wouldn't a mixture of tempature and humidity determine air density? And IIRC, that is something important at those distances.

1858rem
July 11, 2009, 05:19 PM
how about resistance from water vapor(humidity) decreasing velocity quicker and lowering POI?

1858
July 11, 2009, 05:20 PM
Wouldn't a mixture of tempature and humidity determine air density? And IIRC, that is something important at those distances.

Air density does have a significant effect on the drag on a bullet, and humid air is less dense than dry air, but the difference in density between dry air and saturated air is less than 0.5%.

Density altitude is the important, all-encompassing parameter. It's a function of elevation, temperature and atmospheric pressure ... humidity doesn't enter into it.

:)

1858rem
July 11, 2009, 05:22 PM
how much diff could temp make at 200 yds....for my own reference. like maybe 20 degrees difference? just a genneral idea of extreme difference. working out longer shots with my 204 and looking for consistancy

1858rem
July 11, 2009, 05:24 PM
so how about including the fact your hundreds of feet up on a tower, that makes determining drop a little different. i wonder if altitude differences would matter much

gvnwst
July 11, 2009, 05:29 PM
Air density does have a significant effect on the drag on a bullet, and humid air is less dense than dry air, but the difference in density between dry air and saturated air is less than 0.5%.

Density altitude is the important, all-encompassing parameter. It's a function of elevation, temperature and atmospheric pressure ... humidity doesn't enter into it.



I learn new things every day here at THR, this is why i love it. :D

1858
July 11, 2009, 05:29 PM
1858rem, just use any decent ballistics program to see how much difference 20F makes. Also, you can see how much difference altitude makes. I've put quite a bit of effort into learning about density altitude and it's relevance to long range shooting. If you have a ballistic program, it's easy to generate a data card with the necessary corrections for 0 ft, 500 ft, 1000 ft, 1500 ft, 2000 ft etc. all the way up to 10,000 ft if so desired. The only trick is knowing what temperature, atmospheric and altitude values to enter in order to get convenient density altitude data.

:)

1858
July 11, 2009, 05:32 PM
I learn new things every day here at THR, this is why i love it.

Me too!! :) I've learned so much over the last 12 months (at no cost too) and one of the reasons why I get involved in some heated discussions is that it gets me looking through numerous books and revisiting many engineering topics that I haven't thought about in years. I can honestly say that I've progressed in my professional life as a result of being an active member on this board.

:)

broknprism
July 11, 2009, 05:57 PM
Speaking of the Bourne Ultimatum (someone was), I liked how the last surviving assassin who cornered him on the roof waited until he was up all the stairs and onto the roof before racking his Beretta, or whatever it was. Jason Bourne has moked how many of your colleagues, and you're going to chase him with an unloaded chamber? Turn in your assassin card.

1858rem
July 11, 2009, 06:02 PM
but rackin' the slide sounds so cool......same with shotguns, i think it takes away from the movie when they rack the slide several times without firing any rounds!! i watched jarhead last night and that was a crazy scene at the end when everyone opens fire at the sky

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 11, 2009, 06:10 PM
it does have some great scenes of an M82 in action though.

So does "Smokin' Aces"!

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Smokin%27_Aces

ParaElite
July 11, 2009, 06:13 PM
I highly recommend Arthur J. Pejsa's books and computer program on Ballistics. The man is an actual rocket scientist! He will tell you what does and does not have an effect on the bullet's flight. The mathematics is esoteric but he has simplified the formulas. They are transparent to us mortal humans but he explains some of it in his first book.
It use to take huge room sized super computers to do the calculations.
I have his book "Modern Practical Ballistics" and I intend to get his latest which is "New Exact Small Arms Ballistics: The Source Book for Riflemen".
No point speculating on what does or does not affect the bullet's flight get it from the man himself: http://www.pejsa.com/

gripper
July 11, 2009, 06:13 PM
great book ("Point of impact"),but as a re-packed&reset movie???not so much.

KenWP
July 11, 2009, 06:24 PM
I read the book and he some how cut the fireing pin shorter so that it wasn't possible for it to be his 300HH mag that shot the politician. Of course the movie had to follow the book for maybe 40 seconds. I some times watch movies and get so ticked off when they don't follow the book.

BMF500
July 11, 2009, 06:30 PM
Guy's it's just a movie, I'm a driller and I could pick Armageddon apart all day long, but I don't. It's for entertainment not fact finding....

Maverick223
July 11, 2009, 06:52 PM
Really now, the stupidity of some of the gun scenes of that movie astounded me.You should watch The Last Boy Scout, saw the end of it today...where a "sniper" opened fire with a fully automatic sniper rifle...now thats realism! :rolleyes: :uhoh:

I thought the concept was to switch firing pins amongst different guns, not shorter spares...that is actually realistic...switching them from gun to gun is pretty stupid though. Have to say that I thought Shooter was a good movie despite the stupidity. :)

gvnwst
July 11, 2009, 07:10 PM
Actually Mav, there is a FA sniper rifle, made by the russians. IIRC it was a bullpup dragonov, with a giggle switch.

Maverick223
July 11, 2009, 08:26 PM
Actually Mav, there is a FA sniper rifle, made by the russians. IIRC it was a bullpup dragonov, with a giggle switch.Okay, well I have accrued my learnin' fer today...I did not know that, still a stupid idea, just a stupid Russian idea instead of a stupid Hollywood idea. :neener:

danweasel
July 11, 2009, 09:38 PM
You should watch The Last Boy Scout, saw the end of it today...where a "sniper" opened fire with a fully automatic sniper rifle...now thats realism!

Hey buddy, that is a good movie! Hahahaha. Did you see where he shot the guy through the hand puppet? Classic.

Maverick223
July 11, 2009, 09:56 PM
Did you see where he shot the guy through the hand puppet?Not today...only the very end, but I do recall that part from seeing it in the past. I agree it is a good movie, and for the most part you don't want realism in a movie...especially a war movie. Most of my favorite movies are not realistic in the slightest...well with the possible exception of Dawn of the Dead and War of the Worlds. :rolleyes:

Art Eatman
July 11, 2009, 10:00 PM
For the OP: All that's needed is to replace the firing pin with one which has been shortened by just enough in length so it doesn't hit the primer. Very easy to do.

And enough wandering about...

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