AK decision/ which one and why?


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Miss Debbie
July 10, 2009, 09:24 PM
Hi there I had a Saiga rifle that I had converted, but a while ago it was stolen and wanted to get another AK style rifle. I have found a couple locally and online, I just wanted to get input on these two.
First one is Arsenal 107F there is one locally at a gunshop they want 850.00
Next one is a henderson defense certified WSAR for 490.00. Is the Arsenal really worth the extra money?

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John Parker
July 10, 2009, 09:37 PM
They are VERY nice, but there's not much they will do that a WASR won't.

nalioth
July 10, 2009, 10:26 PM
Why not get another Saiga? They're priced below $400 again, and the price continues to drop.

Then you'll have a "Miss Debbie Certified Saiga" :D

possum
July 10, 2009, 10:27 PM
get a wasr you will be good to go, they run that is for sure. and if you want to get it tricked out, send it to Rifle Dynamics, they are the jedi masters of ak's. you won't even notice your ak when you get it back.

briansmithwins
July 10, 2009, 10:29 PM
With the Arsenal the rifle is just fine out of the box. Built from new parts by factory trained techs it's about as close to a issue AK as you can get in the US.

That said, Henderson makes good guns.

What's the fit and finish of the Arsenal worth to you? BSW

mr.scott
July 10, 2009, 10:45 PM
I'm quite impressed with my GP 1975. It was only $500 but worlds better than a WASR. The only down side is it doesn't have a side mount for a scope, but there are other options available.

THE DARK KNIGHT
July 10, 2009, 10:47 PM
Get a Saiga rifle and convert it. The craftsmanship on them is fantastic.

nalioth
July 11, 2009, 12:49 AM
get a wasr you will be good to go, they run that is for sure. and if you want to get it tricked out, send it to Rifle Dynamics, they are the jedi masters of ak's. you won't even notice your ak when you get it back. Riiiiiiight. Spend $490 on a WASR that's already been professionally tuned ,and then send it out for another $350 worth of tuning.

Besides that, WASRs are made from factory seconds (and lately from used military guns).

Ever hear of polishing a t*rd?

That said, Henderson makes good guns. They make good guns, but they don't make WASRs. Their "certified WASRs" are taken from the box, checked for the usual culprits and if any are found, corrected. If none are found, you just paid extra for a "hands-on inspection".

H2O MAN
July 11, 2009, 09:07 AM
+1

Why not get another Saiga?

heron
July 11, 2009, 01:51 PM
Get another Saiga.

FMJMIKE
July 11, 2009, 08:42 PM
Get another Saiga..............You the Man!!!
:D

Pack
July 11, 2009, 09:32 PM
I have an Arsenal SAM-7 (bought during the ban) and an Arsenal RPK-7, both with milled receivers. It's what attracted me to the guns in the first place - they're very well made, and just plain different.

These are my frist and only variants of the AK pattern rifle, so I can't make an educated comparison. I just know that I love them dearly. But, I'm the kind of guy that just likes stuff that's totally "overbuilt" - I'm happy to have a smaller number of what I think are nicer/better examples, even if there is no measurable benefit to the difference/premium.

I think that my arsenals produce better accuracy, on average, than other AK types. As for durability and dependability, though - those traits are the raison d'etre for the Kalashnikov in the first place! I'd have a very hard time believing that the Russians, of all people, made the decision to go from milled back to stamped - in peacetime, too - if it would adversely affect how the guns would hold up.

wareaglepilot
September 11, 2009, 01:09 AM
Henderson Defense Russian Red WASR GTG....Far better than anything i ever expected. You will not be disappointed.

ndh87
September 11, 2009, 01:59 AM
For 850 save your pennies and get a piston AR. The WASRs are hit or miss. the one i had was a miss... Now i have the piston AR...couldnt be happier

DMK
September 11, 2009, 08:43 AM
You could always do like I did. Buy a cheap Romanian (SAR1 in my case) they buy & try every piece of wood furniture, plastic furniture, fixed stock, folding stock, pistol grip, scope mount, recoil buffer, sight upgrade, trigger upgrade and muzzle device on the market. Then finally decide that you liked the AK best in its classic form so you have a $300 rifle, with bin full of $1000 worth of unused accessories and parts in your closet. :o

Delaware_Dan
September 11, 2009, 06:56 PM
Another vote for another saiga

RatDrall
September 11, 2009, 07:21 PM
Definately get another Saiga.

Those WASR guns seem to be assembled hastily. I've seen a lot that were very poorly assembled, with spotty finish and loose magwells.

You can get a Bulgarian SSR85 from centerfiresystems.com for 600 shipped.

nalioth
September 11, 2009, 07:37 PM
Those WASR guns seem to be assembled hastily. I've seen a lot that were very poorly assembled, with spotty finish and loose magwells.

You can get a Bulgarian SSR85 from centerfiresystems.com for 600 shipped.

Which are the same as the WASR, only spawned in Bulgaria.

They're both made from recycled military guns. They're both "cobbled together" (the SSR-85 line is actually a milled rifle assembled into a stamped receiver).

IMHO, they're both 'bottom of the barrel'.

RatDrall
September 11, 2009, 07:47 PM
Which are the same as the WASR, only spawned in Bulgaria.

They're both made from recycled military guns. They're both "cobbled together" (the SSR-85 line is actually a milled rifle assembled into a stamped receiver).

IMHO, they're both 'bottom of the barrel'.

After handling both, I'm confused.

The SSR85 is a Bulgarian reciever,with a Bulgarian barrel, and mostly Bulgarian parts.

The WASR10 looked like an American reciever, made as quickly as possible on what must have been aweful machinery, with an American barrel (not chrome lined), an extremely loose magwell, and it appeared to have been assembled by a 12 year old at 3am, in the dark (judging by the spotty finish, canted FSB, and rough working).

The SSR85 (that I handled) was assembled properly, had a uniform finish, with a chrome lined barrel and real comblock reciever.

I would rather have a pair of WASR10s than one Arsenal rifle, but the Bulgarian looks like a decent compromise, especially for just $100 more.

nalioth
September 11, 2009, 09:12 PM
The WASR10 looked like an American reciever, made as quickly as possible on what must have been aweful machinery, with an American barrel (not chrome lined), an extremely loose magwell, and it appeared to have been assembled by a 12 year old at 3am, in the dark (judging by the spotty finish, canted FSB, and rough working). WASRs are entirely made in Romania.

They are imported here, have some mods done by Century to comply with the 922r and sold to the public.

Century sells so many AK variants, you may be confusing one of their other models (with a US made barrel and receiver) for a WASR.

mp5a3
September 11, 2009, 09:27 PM
If I'm not mistaken my WASR 10/63 has a chrome lined barrel. It also eats hollow and soft points without issue. It's my understanding the 10/63 series are MUCH better than the older WASR 10

nalioth
September 11, 2009, 09:42 PM
If I'm not mistaken my WASR 10/63 has a chrome lined barrel. It also eats hollow and soft points without issue. It's my understanding the 10/63 series are MUCH better than the older WASR 10 They are the same gun.

The only difference is that the 10/63 has a bayonet lug and threaded barrel.

Maverick223
September 11, 2009, 10:34 PM
Between the two get the cheaper WASR...but I would either get a Saiga and convert (better rifle slightly cheaper), or if you want to spend a little more get a VZ-58 which is much nicer than the AK but retains its appearance and cartridge. :)

Isher
September 11, 2009, 10:48 PM
+mucho on VZ 58.

You get what you pay for...........

isher

stevehps
September 12, 2009, 01:32 AM
all of my wasr rifles shoot just as well,if not better than my dads norinco,and his arsenals,alot of people badmouth the wasr,but they tend to consider the price difference as the quality judgement.yes some people have bought wasr and it have problems.but some people have bought a new mercedes and have problems too.so as with all things occasionally you get a lemon,but manufacturers of guns will fix for free,or replace

quote:
The WASR10 looked like an American reciever, made as quickly as possible on what must have been aweful machinery, with an American barrel (not chrome lined), an extremely loose magwell, and it appeared to have been assembled by a 12 year old at 3am, in the dark (judging by the spotty finish, canted FSB, and rough working).

wrong,i have no issues with mine,and it has a chrome lined barrel

PandaBearBG
September 12, 2009, 01:59 AM
For an AK I'd say save your money and get the WASR, I've heard alot of good things from Henderson Defense's AK's. After all you are getting an AK, which are great fun to shoot and an excellent rifle out to say 300-400 yards. If you are gonna spend $850 or $900 you can get a nice AR now a days if you plan on shooting 500 yard range, and that's a good investment too. I guess it depends what you are gonna use it for. I've even seen AK prices dropping WAY below your 490 price range for your basic AK.

ThePants
September 12, 2009, 02:02 AM
+1 for a Saiga!

MD_Willington
September 12, 2009, 02:36 AM
Uh.. the New Arsenal... it's a SAIGA..

Get a Saiga.. don't pay for the Arsenal hype...

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