Has Hornady turned my 30-30 into a long range rifle


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gimlet1/21
July 10, 2009, 11:22 PM
The family and I are moving to central Washington in 2 weeks. I've hunted up and down the East Coast with my Marlin 336, and I really don't want to give it up. Hornady claims 300 yd accuracy from the 30-30 leverevelution ammo. Only a .5 in drop at these distances???? Has anyone on the THR put this to the test?? I can't even find a box of this ammo in the Sumter area.


Dr. Tad / RC I've been reading your opinions of ammo ballistics for a while what do you think? Is my rifle an open range thumper?

Or do I need to up-grade to a 45-70.

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jerkface11
July 10, 2009, 11:23 PM
It doesn't live up to their claims. But .30-30 is good enough for 300 yards if you are.

kmrcstintn
July 10, 2009, 11:30 PM
I'm no longer using .30-30 so my hypothesis might be a bit off kilter; the aerodynamically shaped polymer tip will help to a degree; will you see the same performance gain as they claim? doubt it...1) their test barrel is probably between 6" to 10" longer; 2) you are dealing with wind swirls, thermal eddies, and other uncertainties that an enclosed test range with a controlled environment doesn't take into account; 3) or perhaps they get that kind of gain from the Marlin 336 XLR with its longer barrel, a good portion of which sticks out freely toward the muzzle and doesn't have a barrel band or magazine mounting screw to contend with

natman
July 11, 2009, 04:01 AM
Hornady's LeveRevolution ammo may make the 30-30 a longer range rifle, but IMO 300 yards would be pushing it.

Hornady's ballistics chart shows a 300 yard drop of 12.1 inches from a 200 yard zero.

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=ballistics/popup&product_sku=82730

A 45-70 is one of the few rounds that is less suited to long range use than a 30-30.

Even Hornady's LeveRevolution 45-70 load, which is by far the flattest factory 45-70 load, has a rainbow trajectory.

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=ballistics/popup&product_sku=82747

Art Eatman
July 11, 2009, 10:21 AM
Seems to me the important factors are the quality of the sights, the user's knowledge of the trajectory and the ability to judge distance when out beyond 200 yards.

The .30-30 cartridge has plenty of energy to 300, but the other factors are what create any difficulty...

R.W.Dale
July 11, 2009, 10:27 AM
I agree with Art's assessment.

The Hornady ammo may indeed be good stuff but it's not a magic pill that'll turn your 30-30 into a 300savage, Really in my opinion it doesn't allow the 30-30 to do anything it wasn't completely capable of doing before. Sorta like a placebo that just makes 30-30 shooters more confident in taking shots they could have taken before if they'd taken the time to practice past 100yds and learn the cartridges trajectory.

BTW Check out this link for The Hornady ammo compared to other loads from a real rifle and not a test bbl
http://www.realguns.com/archives/120.htm

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 11, 2009, 11:27 AM
The answer is NO, the leverevolution ammo doesn't do that much at all really in the grand scheme of things, with respect to granting you an insane PBR or anything like that. Like krochus said, won't turn it into a .308, .300 savage, etc.

And I ain't nearly in the same class of expertise as rcmodel - some day maybe.

If you know your distance to the target, and know your holdover and windage, you can use any cartridge, including a trapdoor springfield level .45-70 just strolling along. Like they say, sure, it has enough energy at 300 if you can make the hit, to kill a medium-large ungulate, but the 150 gr standard .30-30 load does too (542 ft-lbs still left at 300 yards)

The leverevolution is cool, but realistically, it'll only add *maybe* 25 yards to your point-n-click, don't-think PBR, or even less relative to the lighter 150 grain loads; maybe a bit more relative to the standard 170 gr loads.

With a 200 yard zero (which is way to far of a zero IMO for even the leverevolution), you STILL have over 12 inches of drop at 300 yards.

If you're a PBR-only, no-holdover kinda guy, then the leverevolution turns your .30-30 from a 150 yard gun to a 175 yard gun, for deer, is one way to look at it. In my view.

However, the extra retained energy of the L.E. ammo is nothing to scoff at. At 300 yards, the 160 LE has 1,025 ft-lbs of energy, vs. that 542 for the 150 load and 530 for the 170 load. This just straight off the Hornady website. I suppose if you after elk with 300 yard shots, you'd feel a lot more comfortable with 1K ft-lbs of energy vs. half that, and the L.E. will minimize range estimation error and wind drift estimation error.

Arkel23
July 11, 2009, 12:12 PM
I don't believe that, I live in Florence man, have a safe trip.

jpwilly
July 11, 2009, 05:10 PM
In a word "no"! The 30-30 isn't going to be a long range rifle shooting a 160gr .350ish BC bullet at 2300-2400fps. It's still about 500fps and a hundred BC short of doing any long range anything.

cyclopsshooter
July 11, 2009, 05:22 PM
i will be comparing the leverevolution to rem corelock tonight, i will post results providing the wind doesnt pick up :)

cyclopsshooter
July 11, 2009, 05:25 PM
by the way, most people in this area opt for 270 30-06 7mm with optics

hunting tends to take longer shots here

saturno_v
July 11, 2009, 05:58 PM
However, the extra retained energy of the L.E. ammo is nothing to scoff at. At 300 yards, the 160 LE has 1,025 ft-lbs of energy, vs. that 542 for the 150 load and 530 for the 170 load.

Hornady energy figures at that distance for their non-Leverevolution loads are, frankly, a bit too much on the anemic side...

Winchester and Federal claim ~650 ft/lb left for their 150 grainers at 300 yards and Winchester is just few ft/lb shy of the 800 ft/lb mark for their 170 gr. Silvertips (Federal and Remington 170 gr. loads are in the mid-700 at the same distance)

Maybe Hornady uses a flatter less aerodynamic nose in their traditional 30-30 loads

Winchester, Remington, Federal and Hornady all use a 24" test barrel...however for a 30-30 4" of difference in barrel length doesn't make a lot of difference in muzzle velocity

Grizzly Cartrdige has a 170 gr. Partition flat nose 30-30 load that claim over 900 ft/lb of energy left at 300 yards out of a 20" barrel rifle....it is pricey ($45-50 per box) but at the moment is the strongest (within SAAMI specs) commercial 30-30 load I know

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 11, 2009, 06:29 PM
saturno, yep, and I wouldn't be too surprised if Hornady tested their 150 and 170 in a 16" bbl, so that the leverevolution looks better by comparison!

MJR007
July 11, 2009, 06:33 PM
300yds long range?

gimlet1/21
July 11, 2009, 08:19 PM
longer range, to be honest I've never encounter a big game shot over 150 yds. Wooded gulches and game trails are my norm. Remmington core-loks have always turned the trick.

cyclopsshooter
July 11, 2009, 08:27 PM
wide open plains and hills here

NCsmitty
July 11, 2009, 08:43 PM
If your rifle shoots the Leverevolution ammo well enough, then any ballistic advantage that the bullet gives you, and it does, is a plus.
There is no doubt that in a scoped rifle especially, the Leverevolutin bullet will extend your range. How far depends on your expertise.

Here's a Guns and Shooting Online Staff test report.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/leverevolution.htm


NCsmitty

oneounceload
July 11, 2009, 10:45 PM
Having lived in NV for 20 years, and having visited most of the Western states, 300 yards might be a decently close shot at times.....might be a long one if you're in timber.....HOWEVER, JUDGING distances in the open West is fairly tricky.....sounds like your 30-30 may be running out of enough steam at 300, and IF you've misudged the distance...then that might spell disaster for your hunt.........Personally, any of the "middle" cartridges in the 270/30-06/7mag class will do ust fine for anything you'll encounter......

cyclopsshooter
July 12, 2009, 04:02 AM
The Rifles:
Marlin 336 30-30 manufactured in 1998 with crappy Simmons 3-10x44 scope-
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/wrc376/DSC00300.jpg

Remington 700LH BDL 30-06 made in 1989 with Redfield 3x-9x Scope-
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/wrc376/DSC00301.jpg

LEVEREVOLUTION 30-30 results-
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/wrc376/DSC00302.jpg

Remington Core-Lokt 30-30 results-
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/wrc376/DSC00303.jpg

Rem 700 30-06 results- (for kicks and giggles)
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/wrc376/DSC00304.jpg

And for an after thought, (do not have immediate access to target for pic)
Savage 110 270WIN at same range rest a few months ago got a sub inch group at two inches high dead center: all three shots touched :) just a hair better than the leverevolution

R.W.Dale
July 12, 2009, 04:08 AM
The Rifles:
Marlin 336 30-30 manufactured in 1998 with crappy Simmons 3-10x44 scope-

Remington 700LH BDL 30-06 made in 1989 with Redfield 3x-9x Scope-

LEVEREVOLUTION 30-30 results-

Remington Core-Lokt 30-30 results-

Rem 700 30-06 results- (for kicks and giggles)

And for an after thought, (do not have immediate access to target for pic)
Savage 110 270WIN at same range rest a few months ago got a sub inch group at two inches high dead center: all three shots touched :) just a hair better than the leverevolution

Not to take away from your test but this really only tells us one thing.... YOUR rifle shoots leverrevolution better than core lokt, or at least for one group

cyclopsshooter
July 12, 2009, 04:22 AM
i did 40 rounds of hornaday, 20 of the Rem and 20 of the 30-06 (letting rifles cool between groups) these were pretty average results! these targets i kept as best results for the few that didn't disintegrate from exploding milk jugs full of water :)

this was the only testing i have resources for- ballistics are out of my league

but IMHO the leverevolution 30-30 is much more stable in flight than the old round nosed bullets-

i did 6 rounds rapid fire for kicks at an outcropping of rocks at 200+ yards- accurate with solid hits

if i had optics (or even the desire to put them on) my pre 64 94... well, that might have been interesting... no other 30-30s at my disposal

MJR007
July 12, 2009, 10:24 AM
All three are holding minute of deer.

Oldtrader3
July 12, 2009, 11:02 AM
I live in Washington state and used to hunt the Yakima Ridge area for deer quite a bit. It is pretty open country with few trees and longer shots are the norm. I also used to hunt the Lake Chelan area for elk. This area also is open and is full of burn-offs from forest fires and is mostly high, rugged and country more for a .270 than a .30/30. I think that you will find most hunting in central Washington is longer range. However there are some heavily forested areas in the mountains towards western Washington.

gimlet1/21
July 12, 2009, 12:19 PM
Thanks, for all of the in-put fellows. Seems as if its time to get a new rifle.:D

I believe there is a 30-06 in my future.;)

jpwilly
July 12, 2009, 02:01 PM
^^^ There are a number of Flat shooting cartridges that will fill the bill 30-06 being one of many. Don't overlook the 6.5mm & 7mm, base cartridges either some great performers with less recoil.

Semmerling
July 12, 2009, 03:27 PM
Based on what I've read here, anything you think you would be doing with a 30-06 you would be doing better with a .308.

I think you have quite a bit of work and research before you run off and buy this next rifle. If you do the work, I doubt very much you will be buying a 30-06. I love mine, but it doesn't hold a candle to a whole host of other long range calibers.

Slow down, do the work, get it right.

Arkel23
July 12, 2009, 04:41 PM
Where I hunt in SC there is alot of open space and and swamps and gulches like you said.

Oldtrader3
July 12, 2009, 07:59 PM
Actually I have never found anything that I could do with a .308 better than with a .30-06. I have owned several of each over the years. Shoot 180 or 200 gr bullets at elk and change your mind about the .308 being better than the .30-06.

natman
July 13, 2009, 04:33 AM
Based on what I've read here, anything you think you would be doing with a 30-06 you would be doing better with a .308.

I think you have quite a bit of work and research before you run off and buy this next rifle. If you do the work, I doubt very much you will be buying a 30-06. I love mine, but it doesn't hold a candle to a whole host of other long range calibers.

Slow down, do the work, get it right.

If I understand this post correctly, you are saying that a 308 is a better long range cartridge than a 30-06.

If that's the case you are going to have to explain to me how shooting the same bullet 100 fps slower makes the 308 better.

P. Plainsman
July 13, 2009, 03:43 PM
Before this mutates into a .308-vs.-.30-06 thread --

Just wanted to note. While the LeverEvolution 160 gr may or may not be a significant boost to the long range capacity of the .30-30, it does do two things within the traditional 150 yard envelope:

1) Deliver more energy than many factory .30-30 loads.

2) Group very well! :cool:

My Marlin loves the stuff, much like cyclopsshooter's Marlin above. I buy a box when I can find it on the shelves. I guess I'm laying in a supply. I'm not a good enough shot to tackle game past 100 yards with an iron-sighted rifle, so I don't care too much about long range. But points 1) and 2) are enough to make me a fan of LeverEvolution .30-30.

Lloyd Smale
July 14, 2009, 08:08 AM
ive shot some scary accurate 3030 loads at 200 yards. One of my guns will shoot 150 corelocks into 2.5 inches at 200. Personaly i think all that leverevelotion ammo is just hype. A 3030 will take care of deer sized game with corelocks with a proper sight in. Out past 200 yards you probably should step up to a more powerful gun. It may be a tad flatter shooting but it shouldnt be used as a crutch. Go out with your 3030 and learn its trajectory and where it hits at different ranges and worry more about which loads shoots the best then about which is an inch or two flatter shooting.

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