Used Smith for range & trail gun


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Quoheleth
July 11, 2009, 02:37 PM
I posted a question about values of model 10s, 14s, and 15s having risen sharply the past year or so.

Nevertheless, I'm still on the prowl for a good, used K-frame for a play/range gun and occassional trail gun. I'm not looking for a precision, target gun (like the old model 14 "Target Masterpiece") but a fun gun that my kids can learn to shoot ubermild 148 wadcutters with, without the weight of my big 6" GP100.

In the opinion of THR, is the $75-$100 difference between a good used model 10 and a good used model 15 worth it for these applications? I confess I don't know that much about 'em to say for myself.

Q

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MCgunner
July 11, 2009, 03:06 PM
I guess you're just stuck on Smith and Wesson. I have a early 90s Taurus 4" 66 I wouldn't trade for a K frame in any circumstance as a trail gun/shooter. I HAVE carried my Ruger Blackhawk on long hikes and for scouting trips, but the 66 is as accurate and a lot easier on the hip.

I traded even up a Security Six for the Blackhawk, the Taurus was $197 at a gun show. The Taurus would outshoot my M19 with .38 or .357. My M10 won't even shoot with it. It's pretty amazing, consistent 1" 25 yard groups off the sandbags, as good as I can shoot an iron sighted revolver. Best my M10 will do is 1.5" and my M19 with .38s was a 2.0" gun at that range with best .38 wadcutters. I had a Ruger Security Six, couldn't hold 3.5" at 25 with .38 loads, but would put 140 grain Speer .357 into a little over an inch. Never could figure that one out. But, the Taurus is consistent with magnums or .38s. It's a little stronger in the area of the forcing cone, too, than the Smith K frame and has as good a trigger out of the box. It's a matte nickel finish gun.

As to the difference in the 10 and the 15, if the 10 shoots to POA, why would I need adjustable sights. Adjustables are very handy on a .357 that will see .38s, but in a .38, I wouldn't spend more just for adjustable sights, JMHO. My 10 wears a new barrel as the forcing cone on the old one split. I had to file the sight to regulate it, but now it shoots to POA. Can't ask for more, eh?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=64999&d=1191515163

rklessdriver
July 11, 2009, 03:19 PM
I don't know how much you want to spend on one but the difference in price is about $20-$50 around here. Both are still going for less than $300.00 and the selection is darn good.

The local indoor shooting range at this time has a truck load of Smith M15 and M64 revolvers (which is a stainless M10 heavy barrel) that are trade in's from a local armored car/security company.

I bought a M15 from him last year to teach my SO how to shoot on a "Big Gun", it is now our home defense piece. I like the adjustable sights and the fact that the M15's were round butt - so for me the extra few $$$ was worth it.

http://www.indoorrange.com/forsale.html

If you have a local FFL in your state that will cut you some slack on the transfer fee you could still get one at a good deal IMO.
Will

ArmedBear
July 11, 2009, 03:25 PM
is the $75-$100 difference between a good used model 10 and a good used model 15 worth it for these applications?

IMO yes.

I have a Model 10. The sights are set up for one load and one load only, the old police service round (AFAIK 158 grains @ 850 fps or so).

Thing shoots pretty low with my play-around rounds, which are 125 grain LFN @ 750 or so. Shoots lower with any more velocity than that. There's nothing I can really do about it, but shoot it with "more front sight" as Elmer Keith used to say.

I'm not overly thrilled with the Model 10 as a play-around gun, for that reason and that reason alone. Otherwise, it's relatively light but not TOO light, smooth as silk, points well, and is a very tractable gun overall.

If you want to put your own special favorite rounds in it, as you apparently do, I'd get the adjustable sights. Hell of a great .38 if you can dial it in to whatever you shoot it.

That said, I've seen Taurus 66 in great shape, for relatively cheap prices. Worth a look, for your purposes.

OTOH if your kids don't trash the thing, it seems the Model 15 will be worth more in a few years than it is now.

gunnie
July 11, 2009, 04:08 PM
Quoheleth & ArmedBear,

i just bought a coupla model 64 RB new york police turn-ins from J&G sales. @ 249 each, rated very good + by their gunsmith, couldn't pass them up.

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/smith-wesson/revolver/p/smith-wesson-model-64-38spl-4in-stainless%2C-round-butt-w-bobbed-hammer-very-good-plus-condition/cPath/16_211_431/products_id/3104?osCsid=13ae66ffe49868f77e841b16ee496854

they are DA ~ONLY~. will not cycle far enough back for SA due to a machined step on lower rear hammer radius. ok by me as i got these to force the wife to shoot DA.

i had doubts about the fixed sights and ammo muzvel/weight variations. scoured the net and found what may be the last bomar winged rib in captivity for sale. [BoMar no longer in business]

on another posting where i was asking about where to find the BoMar it was suggested i look into aristocrat ribs, the heir apparent to the niche left unfilled.

perhaps one of these for your model 10?

http://www.aristocratproducts.com/page1.html

gunnie

PS-Quoheleth: one of these was a dash 6, and the other was dash 5. i will be selling the dash 6 later on down the line, when these very good prices are long historical. would suggest you specify -5, if a DA only revolver appeals to you.

Furncliff
July 11, 2009, 04:52 PM
OP... I don't know how many Model 10 and 15 triggers you have tried? but if I were in your shoes and I found a model 15 with the great trigger mine has I'd say; hell yes it's worth another 75-100$

David E
July 11, 2009, 04:59 PM
is the $75-$100 difference between a good used model 10 and a good used model 15 worth it for these applications?

Yes.

It's also worthwhile to consider the S&W Model 19 and/or 66

MCgunner
July 11, 2009, 06:26 PM
The local indoor shooting range at this time has a truck load of Smith M15 and M64 revolvers (which is a stainless M10 heavy barrel) that are trade in's from a local armored car/security company.

The 64 would be pretty danged neat as a trail gun, stainless, rugged.

My M10 shoots a 158 and my 148 wadcutter pretty close POI. Maybe I got lucky, don't know. But, fixed sights are a lot more rugged if you don't need the adjustability. I tend to like fixed sights for that reason. On a .357, like I say, adjustable is the way to go.

I've got two good loads for my M10, the wadcutter and a 158 SWC pushing mild +P (5.0 grains Unique). It shoots well with either load. That said, i don't carry it too often, mostly a range shooter. A guy HAS to have a M10, ya know. That said, a M15 will do, K frame after all. :D

Quoheleth
July 11, 2009, 06:44 PM
Appreciate the comments, y'all.

A guy HAS to have a M10, ya know.

And yet, you fuss at me for being "stuck" on Smith? :rolleyes:

That's why I was focusing on Smith, honestly. It's one of THOSE guns a guy wants to pass on to one of his kids, some day. That's why I bought a stainless Springfield Loaded 1911 instead of a MilSpec - a family gun. Ditto the stainless Ruger 77/22. Now the Smith. Down the road, a Garand. I've changed my buying from "gotta haves" to "what would I like my kids to have to remember me, some day." And, a little bit of what I would like still...:D

To be fair & honest, I had not considered the Taurus. *I have no beef with Taurus, so this is not a 'bash'! * I stopped at the local pawn shop this afternoon; they have a 4" Taurus .38 (blue) for $200 w/Pachmayr-like grips. Hmmm...might take a 2nd look at it on Monday.

As to why not the 19 or the 66, I'm looking for a K-frame .38. I have the Ruger Gp100 (6") for serious Magnum work. I want the .38 for weight savings and so I don't have to scrub carbon out of the chambers after.

The 64 would be nice (thanks for the link), but for $30 less, I can get a very good model 10 that will shoot SA or DA. For $50 more, I can get a very good model 15.

Anyhow, that's my story & I'm sticking to it.
For now...

Q

MCgunner
July 11, 2009, 07:13 PM
And yet, you fuss at me for being "stuck" on Smith?

Well, if I fuss, that's just because I'm that way. I really just get fussy when someone is dising a brand and 90 percent of the time, they're Smith lovers so I get it in for Smith lovers even though I still have one. I own and have owned Smiths and Rugers and Tauri, and Rossi. I've owned more Rugers, I guess, than anything else. Got 7 right now, 6 of 'em handguns and 3 of 'em single action revolvers and one of those has nipples on the cylinder.

I "need" another SP101. I really liked that thing and I don't currently have a DA Ruger. Now if they offered an adjustable sighted 3" model, that SP101 would be a heck of a trail gun. The fixed sight one ain't bad, light, even concealable. One can probably get a SP101 for the price of a M15 and I KNOW you can get one for what a 19 costs now days. The NEW price would be what 19s go for down here in decent shape.

Ala Dan
July 11, 2009, 07:21 PM
Greetings Rev Jon-

I agree, NO collection is complete without a S&W model 10~! :D

As you know, I have a pristine, factory nickel, 4" square butt
pencil barrel model that some think was in Dallas, TX on that
fateful Nov. 22nd, 1963 day~? I can't say for sure, but its
very possible that it may have ridden in a G-man's shoulder
rig during that time frame~! :uhoh: ;)

rklessdriver
July 11, 2009, 08:47 PM
The 64 would be nice (thanks for the link), but for $30 less, I can get a very good model 10 that will shoot SA or DA. For $50 more, I can get a very good model 15.


Quoheleth
The M64's I linked you to are regular DA/SA.

However for $30 less I would buy that M10.

The days of $150 Smith are about gone IMO. Anything halfway nice and serviceable is going to cost close to $300. Anything under that I would jump on. Sometimes you get lucky but its getting harder and harder in this political climate, people are jacking the price up on everything. Now that they see that at least some people will buy at those jacked up prices, they are never going back down.
Will

Quoheleth
July 11, 2009, 08:53 PM
Quoheleth
The M64's I linked you to are regular DA/SA.

They are? My apologies. I assumed that with the hammer bobbed they were also altered internally so to only fire double-action -- like Ruger did with their bobbed SP101 so it only fires DA.

Dan: I forgot about that special .38 Special! Got a pic of it to show off?

I had a SP101 that I swapped last week for a KelTec PF9 plus a handful of cash. As I paid $350 for the SP101 a year ago and got the PF9 plus $150, I think I did pretty good. Thus, I have a void to fill (need a lighter frame revolver) and some extra cash to fill the void with!

Time to get the kiddos into the shower...

Q

MCgunner
July 12, 2009, 12:12 PM
I had a SP101 that I swapped last week for a KelTec PF9 plus a handful of cash. As I paid $350 for the SP101 a year ago and got the PF9 plus $150, I think I did pretty good. Thus, I have a void to fill (need a lighter frame revolver) and some extra cash to fill the void with!

IMHO, you got a better CCW. The SP101 is a fantastic revolver, but it's NO pocket gun. I love the little 9s, anyway, carry a P11 myself.

So, I will say, while I might hesitate to spend more for adjustable sights on a field carry .38 special only K frame, I would NOT hesitate to spend more for stainless. Some folks are all "blued/wood" traditional, as if stainless were some new fangled development, but I'm a practical guy. :D

Ala Dan
July 12, 2009, 03:54 PM
and here it is~! ;)

Quoheleth
July 12, 2009, 06:17 PM
I think I can see myself in that nickel! Thanks!!!

Seriously - nice looking m10.

Q - Jon

SaxonPig
July 12, 2009, 06:49 PM
A target grade field gun? Model 15 "Combat Masterpiece" for sure. Yes, it's worth the extra dough. The Colt Trooper Mk III would be in the same league but they have become frightfully expensive of late. Then you can add the 22 caliber companion model.

I like my CMs.


http://www.fototime.com/650BC1D0519B79B/standard.jpg


http://www.fototime.com/C7E3D4312FA7F0B/standard.jpg


Of course maybe you'd prefer the longer barrel on the K22 & K38 Masterpiece.


http://www.fototime.com/59AAE28DA8A2D4F/standard.jpg


http://www.fototime.com/24FC83A7BD949C6/standard.jpg

gunnie
July 12, 2009, 06:56 PM
SaxonPig,

talk about a blast from the past!!! i can't even recall the last time i saw super vel ammo.

what would you think that box {presumed full} is worth?

gunnie

SaxonPig
July 12, 2009, 11:13 PM
Probably not as much as this stuff:


http://www.fototime.com/1B9675A20F325BC/standard.jpg

ArmedBear
July 12, 2009, 11:28 PM
My M10 shoots a 158 and my 148 wadcutter pretty close POI. Maybe I got lucky, don't know.

I should note that I have the 4" standard (aka "pencil") barrel. I like it, and I REALLY like the looks of it. However, I think that it is probably more susceptible to vertical displacement due to internal ballistics than a heavy barrel.

Guillermo
July 13, 2009, 09:17 AM
Yo Quo,

The model 15 is worth the extra money.

As to people that mention other brands, ignore them. Unless the Fuhrer has his way and bans all guns, in the future you will be able to buy all of the Rugers and Tauruses (Tauri?) that you want. The golden age of Smith is long behind us.

Buy those old jewels while you can. There are only so many old Smiths out there, a finite (diminishing) resource.

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