stamped AK'S Fall apart after afew thousand rounds


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lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 05:23 PM
i own a poly tech milled AK preban underfolder i love it! such a versitile little rifle easy to pack easy to maintain i was thinking buying a cheaper stamped AK deal but have heard their not as durable and after a few thousand rounds rivets start to raddle or fall apart any truth to that? a friend of mine told me he had a couple ak's and got rid of them and wouldn't buy a stamped one again. anyone had similar things happen or hear of anyone with same problem?

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nalioth
July 11, 2009, 05:43 PM
You are correct.

Stamped AKs just disintegrate after a case of ammo.

Just ask all those insurgents over in the middle east about this.


Your friend is spreading gross falsehoods.

rcmodel
July 11, 2009, 05:46 PM
after a few thousand rounds rivets start to raddleIt wouldn't be an AK if it didn't rattle!

rc

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 05:46 PM
i'm not poking at stamped ak's just asking you guys cuz i have never even shot another ak other than mine i really would like to buy one another ak would be nice but milled are just to much cant justify spending that kinda cash again

rcmodel
July 11, 2009, 05:50 PM
I can't see it.

The AK receiver is not really a stressed part.

All it is, is a box to hold all the parts together in proper alignment.

If it's riveted together properly to start with, it should stay that way for the life of the rifle.

Which in the case of the AK, seems to be about forever.

rc

AK103K
July 11, 2009, 06:02 PM
I've got more than a few thousands through most of mine, and nary a wiggle.

The Russians went to the stamped receivers very early on, and never went back. That should give you a clue.

Gunfighter123
July 11, 2009, 06:38 PM
There are stamped AKs being used in Africa , South America , and the Middle East dateing from the 1950s ---- do a web search and show the results to your knowledgeable buddy.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=30752
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329316
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=383356

The list could go on and on and on.

I have also owned both milled and stamped AKs ---- both types were shot with THOUSANDS of rounds and both types still worked 100%.

To be truthfull ---- if YOU paid $1000/$1500 MORE then what I paid for a new AK , are YOU going to say " well, guess your right -- they both are about at the same performance level" ???

Gun Wielding Maniac
July 11, 2009, 06:39 PM
Total BS.

I've got thousands and thousands of rounds through mine.

In A-stan and Iraq I saw hundreds of AK's that had been around since the 60's. They were so worn there wasnt a bit of paint or blue left on them and even the rifling was worn to near smoothness. But the rivets sure as hell weren't rattling.:rolleyes:

Gun Slinger
July 11, 2009, 06:42 PM
ha ha ha...Oh, that's rich!

Let me guess, did this conversation occur in a gunshop, too? :D

I own seven milled AKs and have owned one stamped AK (sold it to a friend years ago who was just begging me to let him have it) and if the opportunity arose, I wouldn't hesistate a moment to acquire another stamped AK. Prices are just way too stoopid high right now.

I suspect that your buddy is either ignorant or just messing with you. ;)

In short, stamped receiver AKs are quite durable and will not fall apart with the amount of ammuntion that one could reasonably purchase these days.

benEzra
July 11, 2009, 06:47 PM
Consider that Russian military AK's, as well as RPK machineguns, use stamped, riveted receivers, and withstand more abuse than non-automatic civilian AK's ever will.

Sam1911
July 11, 2009, 06:50 PM
You should know that the Soviets adopted the AKM (that's the official designation of the "stamped" version) to replace the original AK-47 in 1959.

Since then, many millions of AKMs have been built by many countries, as well as the newer AK-74 (5.45x39mm) rifles and the RPK machine guns, and even a few of the "designated rifleman" rifles like the Romanian Romak FPK or Yugoslavian Zastava M76 (though not the actual SVD Dragunov) have been based on the AKM receiver model. Meaning they're all "stamped."

Obviously, the design worked very well, and in fact, pretty much has set the standard for durability and reliability the world over.

So, your pal is full of crap. (Or, politely put, he's just repeating silly "old gunnie's tales" and should be more careful what he allows himself to believe.)

-Sam

rcmodel
July 11, 2009, 06:53 PM
There could possibly be a grain of truth to it.
If you consider all the AK's put together on someones kitchen table out of a stamped receiver flat.

Some of those cobbled up rivet jobs probably do rattle & fall apart.

rc

AK103K
July 11, 2009, 06:57 PM
From that standpoint, yes.

The guns I've had the most troubles with have been the "kit" guns, and not just AK's either. Everyone is a gunsmith these days.:rolleyes:

4v50 Gary
July 11, 2009, 07:00 PM
I highly doubt it. The Russians are known for tough guns that poorly trained conscripts can operate.

deALPHAmale
July 11, 2009, 07:02 PM
Romanian WASR-10 has yet to fail me, it's not high quality like a Saiga, but I enjoy it just fine.

JHansenAK47
July 11, 2009, 07:02 PM
after a few thousand rounds rivets start to raddle or fall apart any truth to that Sounds like they haven't owned very many AKs. Besides if they did start rattling that would more likely be a manufacturing defect more than likely caused by improper installation than a defective rivet.

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 07:20 PM
hes a pretty honest dude he may bought a lemon that didnt last and then bought another sub par and just got sick of it sold it off any down sides to the stamped? or is stamped just that much cheaper to make. i do doubt that "insurgents" how ever have the same type of regard for there weapons i'm sure they go boom but i doubt those wore out aks from the 50's are all that great doesnt take much to hit man size target

possum
July 11, 2009, 07:25 PM
not true at all. many of the ak's that go through training courses are of the stamped variety and i have never seen or heard of one doing as your friend states. they have way more than a few k through em.

tju1973
July 11, 2009, 07:28 PM
My WASR has had severel thousand through it-- and it still chunks lead out just fine...

and mine is a "cheap AK knockoff.."

:cool:

2RCO
July 11, 2009, 07:29 PM
Pretty shure you'll wear out before your stamped AK does or at least be broke from feeding it.

Maverick223
July 11, 2009, 07:32 PM
Like rc said...I have never seen a AK that didn't rattle...it's like having an AR that doesn't "sproing" or an 870 that doesn't "ka-chuke"...it just ain't right. ;)

I will add that even the milled AKs are POS, they will operate forever without cleaning or lubricating, but the fact remains they are just good enough to not be terrible and happen to be quick and cheap to produce (and that is all the USSR wanted). The idea of a good quality AK is a myth, but nonetheless they don't have a tendency to fall apart. :)

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 07:39 PM
cool i really was hoping most would say that because i would really like to buy another do some durakote or similar paint stuff on it any suggestions on paint and or pictures
and who made the best stamped ak's what should i look for at the next gunshow/shop
wasr wont accept ak mags right?

Maverick223
July 11, 2009, 07:42 PM
wasr wont accept ak mags right?Not in factory condition, but can be modified to take AK mags. I would get the cheapest AK I could find as there is very little difference in quality (typically just the finish...which still isn't great IMO). So in short a WASR or Saiga is the best deal in the marketplace. :)

JHansenAK47
July 11, 2009, 07:43 PM
The idea of a good quality AK is a myth
Those Valmets aren't too bad. If you do look you will see some AKs are nicer than others. (Vepr)
Biggest disadvantage to most AKs is the safety and sights.IMHO When compared to other rifles.

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 07:44 PM
hmmm how much work involved in making a wasr take ak mags it may be better spend the extra money on an actually AK ,right?

Maverick223
July 11, 2009, 07:45 PM
If you do look you will see some AKs are nicer than others. (Vepr)Vepr isn't an AK (it is built on a RPK MG chassis). As far as function...they are all pretty alike, the form may be a bit different, but none are all that great. They are just good enough. :)

hmmm how much work involved in making a wasr take ak mags it may be better spend the extra money on an actually AK ,right?Not sure, never done one...I would get a Saiga and convert it myself...or better yet just get a CZ VZ-58, an all around better gun IMO.

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 07:48 PM
one more time though sorry but no one has ever seen a quality difference in a stamped and a milled AK? accuraccy anything? if so that is great i'm looking via gunbroker right now i like the yugo's

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 07:50 PM
i like cz/vz's alot but don't take ak mags i like having interchangability if that is a word

JHansenAK47
July 11, 2009, 07:51 PM
Vepr isn't an AK (it is built on a RPK MG chassis). Just trying to point out that there is variation to the pattern. You are correct, if you want to split hairs, the Vepr is based on the RPK however the RPK is a 20 in barrel rifle(LMG) and some of the Veprs used 16 in barrels more akin to an AKM. Point being same operating principal in a weapon of different specifications.

AK103K
July 11, 2009, 08:11 PM
I have never seen a AK that didn't rattle...
I have three right now, and not a one rattles without a mag in the gun. You'll get a little with the mag in the gun, just like any other rifle with a mag in it.

...but the fact remains they are just good enough to not be terrible....The idea of a good quality AK is a myth
I'm curious what your basing this on.

i would really like to buy another do some durakote or similar paint stuff on it any suggestions on paint and or pictures
Something like this?

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8d624b3127ccec49fb25824e800000040O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/


one more time though sorry but no one has ever seen a quality difference in a stamped and a milled AK? accuraccy anything? if so that is great i'm looking via gunbroker right now i like the yugo's
They all pretty much shoot the same, regardless of receiver or price. The only preference I would take, would be a gun assembled originally in the county of origin over one assembled here, or at least for now.

If your not worried about price, the one rifle I'd choose over the rest, would be one of the Saiga conversions done by Krebs, and one or two others. You'll end up with a AK100 series gun, that is a Russian made AK (with good US compliance parts) returned to its original configuration.

Maverick223
July 11, 2009, 08:20 PM
I'm curious what your basing this on.I am not saying that they don't do exactly what they were made for (they work and are cheap/easy to build). Just that they aren't really a good gun (by my standards anyway), they rattle (more the mag than elsewhere), are not accurate, the bbl flexes terribly with each shot, have a horrible fit and finish, don't handle particularly well (at least for me), are fairly expensive in the current civilian market, and are typically made of poor quality materials. :)

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 08:26 PM
ak103k that is exactly the idea looks nice i thinking of a winter-flage with some tans so its still good for brush io dunno so meny ideas! :)

j-easy
July 11, 2009, 08:35 PM
hmmm how much work involved in making a wasr take ak mags it may be better spend the extra money on an actually AK ,right?

if you are talking about the WASR 10/63 that are being sold everywhere right now for around 500 bucks, most if not all have been imported by century arms and they drilled out the mag wells to accept the double stack mags. if you manage to find a single stack one i hear is very easy to convert it, just use a dremel tool to expand the mag well.

THE DARK KNIGHT
July 11, 2009, 08:45 PM
SAIGA and convert it yourself on a saturday afternoon for ~$120

You won't be disappointed

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 08:54 PM
cool thanks guys i love my poly tech and am not gonna screw with the finish i like the classic AK Look but i'm also not gonna spend $1200-1500 on another AK dont need one just want one so long short stamped is sounding like a great idea

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 08:56 PM
if i pick up a stamped jam its gonna be camo'd out

benEzra
July 11, 2009, 09:09 PM
any down sides to the stamped? or is stamped just that much cheaper
No downsides to stamped that I am aware of, unless you consider lighter weight a downside; for me, that's a plus, as the AK is not particularly lightweight to start with. Durability is not an issue, nor is receiver flex. Some shooters may see a teeny bit more accuracy with a milled receiver, but that is probably more a function of the higher quality barrels that may go with the more expensive milled guns, not the receiver itself. Reliability is the same. Milled looks a little nicer to some.

wasr wont accept ak mags right?
Most WASR's will, but a few imported in the 1990's won't (they were set up for proprietary single-stack mags instead but can be converted to double stack). Most WASR's take regular AK mags.

I will add that even the milled AKs are POS, they will operate forever without cleaning or lubricating, but the fact remains they are just good enough to not be terrible and happen to be quick and cheap to produce (and that is all the USSR wanted). The idea of a good quality AK is a myth, but nonetheless they don't have a tendency to fall apart.
They are good guns. Think of it as an autoloading .30-30 with a 20- or 30-round detachable magazine.

I used to own both a cheap Romanian AK and a 188-series Ruger mini-14 Ranch Rifle. Guess which one I sold, and which one I still own and shoot carbine matches with....

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/uploads/1188452912/gallery_260_23_7142.jpg

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/uploads/1188452912/med_gallery_260_23_38037.jpg

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 09:14 PM
nice man i love the ak'S i've seen video of people throwing mud in'em throwing them in ditches still function on fire try that with an AR LOL

Maverick223
July 11, 2009, 09:25 PM
Think of it as an autoloading .30-30 with a 20- or 30-round detachable magazine.Good analogy...reliable, cheap, not great looking (for the most part) or terribly accurate (at least at long range); I just wouldn't spend the money on a fancy dolled up AK, that's all I'm saying. :)

jhco
July 11, 2009, 09:33 PM
I think it would be fine to purchase a stamped one as I have never heard of them coming apart at the seams

32 Magnum
July 11, 2009, 09:41 PM
The Romarm WASR-10 takes standard staggered feed AK magazines. The older WASR-3 takes a single stack 10 round mag feeder - OK in NJ, CA and other liberal states.

Art Eatman
July 11, 2009, 09:53 PM
The OP's question seems pretty-well answered...

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