Call it "bubba'd" if you want.


PDA






jordan1948
July 11, 2009, 06:20 PM
Whenever someone gets the idea to upgrade a milsurp everyone calls it "bubba'd" for some reason. Even if it looks really great. Well I look at it like I would if someone was restoring a worn out, beat up old car. You want it to run better right? And it sure is a whole lot more fun if the car runs right and you don't have to put a gallon of oil in it a month. Now I can understand if someone puts a bullpup stock on a M98 that's just goofy and pointless but if they want a tackdriving rifle and don't like irons then go ahead and sporterise it.

If you enjoyed reading about "Call it "bubba'd" if you want." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Woolecox
July 11, 2009, 06:29 PM
I think restoring a milsurp is just a fine idea. There are a lot of smiths out there that have the talent to restore them to their original state or turn them into a serious sporter type rifle.

Not a bad option if done right considering what we are seeing coming out of some of the factory guns these days.

jimmyraythomason
July 11, 2009, 06:35 PM
I hear ya,jordan1948. Take a 1911 or an AR-15 and put any number of aftermarket parts on it and it is "upgraded". Do the same thing for an SKS or any mil-surp and it is "bubbah'd". Go figure. Some are also quick to point out that the finished product is worth a fraction of it's cost to be built(which IS true). Of course the same can be said for that 1911,AR-15 or restored musclecar.

dakotasin
July 11, 2009, 06:51 PM
my feelings on it are it is the owners rifle to do as he wishes.

i only have two 98's - one a 98/22 and one a turk. the 98/22 had headspace problems, was too heavy, not accurate enough, uncomfortable stock, slow lock time, poor trigger, and on and on. now, that same rifle is chambered in 8 mauser, as engraved on the 19" shilen barrel, has talley lightweights drilled into the receiver to get a better purchase on the zeiss scope, and the claro walnut stock has been bedded to make sure the rifle is as accurate as it can be. the rifle balances perfectly, is the perfect weight for a general purpose hunter, barrel is perfectly sized and proportioned to obtain max performance in a smallish package... call it bubba'd, i call it the perfect hunter...

the turk is in full military form, including bayonet and cover. don't particularly care for the rifle as is, but am not in a real big hurry to make it right, either. i will soon, i suppose, but i have a couple other guns on my want list before i'm ready to comission another custom...

dirtyjim
July 11, 2009, 07:38 PM
one of the problems i see is there are many people who cannot see the difference between a finely built sporting rifle & a bubba hack job, many of them frequent this forum.
to them there is no difference between a h&h mauser sporting rifle, a g&h springfield, a wundhammer springfield, a rigby mauser & a turk m38, with a hacksaw shortened barrel, crooked scope mounts, a cold blue job applied over rust, & a homebuilt stock made from a landscaping timber, a tin can, some bailing wire & old flip flop for a recoil pad.
to them any rifle that is no longer in military condition is a worthless bubba hack job & should be turned into scrap metal so they won't have to look at it.

BunnyPuncher
July 11, 2009, 07:56 PM
I'm not a fan of sporterizing because imho, the aesthetics of the rifle are always downgraded. Why? because I like the look of of the full wood stock and hand guard. It's just me. I'd rather you had bought an off the rack .308 than mess with a Mauser or even a Nagant, but hey, it is your time and money and I can understand the appeal of a project gun. In some circles (7.62x54.net or example) I'd be a heathen because I tend to strip the butt ugly shellac off of my Mosins and apply BLO. It is not authentic, but it lets the wood shine through instead of being covered by commie goo.

As WWII milsurps get more difficult to acquire you will see increased hostility from collectors to people sporterizing. They look at it as a rifle that they could have kept in original condition that some redneck hunter ruined.

Now, sporterizing has a long tradition in the post war eras in almost every country in NA and Western Europe (and elsewhere I am sure). Milsurp guns were cheap and affordable and a lot of fellows were probably interested in the guns they, their allies, and their enemies used. Russians cut down Mosins (Obrez anyone?), Yanks cut down M1s, Arisakas and Hosers and Limeys cut down Enfields. They took rifles that were clunky, heavy and too long for the woods and turned em into things that were useful in their daily lives. This tradition continues, and I think it is a fine one. These guns, which were produced for infernal, noble, cruel, heroic tools of war are turned into tools to take game or just punch paper providing enjoyment.

Go bubba. But don't mess with K31s, M1 garands or virgin K98s or I'll punch you in the groin.

Cheers

Olympus
July 11, 2009, 08:09 PM
Here's my "bubba'...

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/adambrown69/P1011514.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/adambrown69/P1011515.jpg

Pack
July 11, 2009, 08:19 PM
My next project is somehing that I've decided I'd like to see more often.

There are many milsurp rifles that have been "sporterized" that, even if they look great, many of us history buff types wish they'd been left alone.

However, because of expense, etc. - I'm told - "restoring" them to their mil-spec form is perhaps dubious at best.

So, what is one to do?

I think a neat solution would be to take a gun that was chopped up in recent decades, and use IT as the basis for a sporter that mimics the way such guns would have been built as sporters at the time they were in military service - i.e., "sporterize" a K98k action in accordance with the aesthetics of the 30s + 40s, etc.

I think it'd be great to take a gun that's simple been chopped, scoped, and stocked, and turn it into something that looks like the following:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133560203

In fact, I may just try and buy that one, as I like the idea and look of it so much, I'd in all probability simply try to duplicate the effort anyway.

jimmyraythomason
July 11, 2009, 08:23 PM
It would be impossible to make that claim since you didn't see the mil-surp BEFORE sproterizing. People seem to think that ALL sporterized mil-surps were in pristene condition before "Bubbah" got hold of it. MOST "Bubbah'd" mil-surp have only had their stocks chopped to a more sporter look. In those cases it is a simple matter to buy a replacement mil-spec stock and hardware to put it back into military configuration. MOST often there has been NO cutting or grinding to the metalwork. Now we come to the mil-surps that I use. These are generally junk when I buy them. A receiver with a shot out barrel sans bolt or other parts. I COULD buy all military parts and assemble a mil-spec arm but then I would have twice what it would cost to build a sporter invested in a mix master worth about $225.00 on average. OR I can get aftermarket commercial parts and build a sport rifle to my own specs. BTW,take those chrome wheels off of that "Bubbahed up" Mustang,it should have Magnum 500s.

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 08:31 PM
looks a+ to me classy

Joe Demko
July 11, 2009, 08:32 PM
For every beautifully sporterized milsurp I've seen, I've seen a mountain of butchered guns.

jimmyraythomason
July 11, 2009, 08:40 PM
Joe Demko, I don't doubt that for a minute,so have I. That is beside the point. The problem and the reason for this thread (I believe) is that ANY modification to a mil-surp is automatic Bubbahizing. All anyone has to say is "I have a sporterized mil-surp" and the Bubbah catcalls come out. Those butchered guns you refer to are generally where we get our raw material for sporterizing. So tell me,what is better? A collection of surplus parts in someones junk bin or a hunting rifle carefully assembled and finished by someone who appreciates it.

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 08:44 PM
well i have seen kagillion piece of junk attachments for AR'S too.

Joe Demko
July 11, 2009, 08:50 PM
The guys who butchered all those guns thought they were turning trash into treasure, too. The real question is how reallistically you assess your own skills at this. I've seen gun butchers proudly show off the "fruit" of their labor. They mistook having put time and effort into it for having done a good job.
No doubt you love your works too. Do people who aren't your buddies think as highly of them as you?
Recently, we had a fellow here converting a functional milsurp in good condition to a .22 magnum. What do you think of something like that?

dirtyjim
July 11, 2009, 09:10 PM
many of those butchers also developed their skills over a few projects & started turning out some great work. some of them even became famous. r.f. sedgley's early rifles would be considered bubba hack jobs compared to his later rifles.
remchester doesn't make a rifle that appeals to me so i have to build them myself.
i did buy one of the remington 799 mini mausers & started cutting on it as soon as i got it home. i wonder if 50 years from now some wacko remington collector will be cussin me for it

Joe Demko
July 11, 2009, 09:15 PM
"Many?" No. A few. A precious, tiny few.

lobo9er
July 11, 2009, 09:17 PM
gotta break some eggs to make an omlette

jimmyraythomason
July 11, 2009, 10:21 PM
As a matter of fact JD,my friends think more highly of my work than I do(since I KNOW where any flaws are). Perhaps you missed the part where I said that I start out with PARTS not rifles. It is clear that your mind is made up and that's okay, so is mine.

jordan1948
July 11, 2009, 10:24 PM
Pardon my ignorance but what is that Olympus?

gunlover_06
July 11, 2009, 10:31 PM
Here's my bubbahd 1896 swedish mauser
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/karenner_2006/mypictures002-10.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/karenner_2006/mypictures001-10.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/karenner_2006/mypictures005-9.jpg

Kenny

jordan1948
July 11, 2009, 10:33 PM
^See now that's what I'm talkin' about!^

browningguy
July 11, 2009, 10:47 PM
I like Bubba'd milsurps, here's my 1891 Mauser. I didn't do it, but I did buy it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Rifles/1891mauser.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Rifles/1891mauseraction.jpg

gunlover_06
July 11, 2009, 10:59 PM
Browningguy
That is one pretty rifle you have there

dirtyjim
July 11, 2009, 11:08 PM
"Many?" No. A few. A precious, tiny few.
actually i've witness more than a tiny few develop into very good builders in just the last couple of years. while its true that some people do not have the patience & skills to do fine work there are many that do and you can see a big difference in the quality of their work over the course of several projects.
i know my first attempts weren't all that great but i kept at it rebuilding several rifles untill i got them right before moving on to other builds.

what annoys me is when people start cutting on sporting rifles. if you have to cut up something do it to one of those worthless milsurps. some crazed lunatic drilled this lee speed for a sidemount. this rifle is not & never was a military rifle, if you tried to put it back to military condition you would be the bubba
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/BSAAntiqueLeeSpeedSportingRifle-1.jpg

R.W.Dale
July 11, 2009, 11:16 PM
I like some of the high skill quality sporterizations that were done in the 50's and 60's. Many of these rifles can be had for a song and would cost over a grand in parts and labor to build today.

I also agree with the posters who point out the folly in chopping up an original military today. I this makes no sense as you never can recoup half of the price you have in a sporter, and given the massive quantities of worthless pre done sporters available on
todays market

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/HPIM2453.jpg

Olympus
July 11, 2009, 11:20 PM
Pardon my ignorance but what is that Olympus?

That's my "sporterized" milsurp rifle. It started life as a Yugo M48 that was a little rough. It's now a .308 that shoots dime-sized groups at 100 yards with commercial ammo.

BunnyPuncher
July 12, 2009, 01:04 AM
It would be impossible to make that claim since you didn't see the mil-surp BEFORE sproterizing. People seem to think that ALL sporterized mil-surps were in pristene condition before "Bubbah" got hold of it.

I would prefer a restoration if I was the one doing it. I assume you didn't read the rest of my post where I discussed the nice part of sporterizing. However, since you have jumped everyone in this thread who is anti-sporterizing I guess you would focus on the parts you want to argue about. If you get a hold of a barreled action or a destroyed stock, have at it with my blessing. Your money, your time, not my business. I just won't be doing it myself, which is all I said above.

While the few thumbhole stocks above are pretty, they are pretty in an off the shelf commercial kind of way. Not my taste, but I wouldn't turn down the offer to shoot it either. I also think AR15s are hideous and not much fun to shoot - I'm in the minority in most of my tastes.

jimmyraythomason
July 12, 2009, 01:21 AM
BP you said "the aesthetics of the rifle are ALWAYS downgraded",a blanket statement, to which I replied that you can't possibly know that about something you haven't seen. I have a C&R ffl and a small mil-surp collection. The guns in THAT collection are unmodified and will stay that way. My sporters are built from STRIPPED receivers so NO rifles are "defaced". Apparently that doesn't make any difference to some folks(not referring to you BP).

lobo9er
July 12, 2009, 01:21 AM
if you got some extra dough to start a project it fun forget the haters i "bubba" just about everything i own not just guns some things work great somethings my dad comes over and helps me fix either way its good times shooting is about fun guns and all. besides i've seen so meny "tacticool" pieces of junk at gunshows far out ways the bubba milsurplus maybe tacticool is just modern "bubba'd" either way guns are goodstuff

Joe Demko
July 12, 2009, 01:49 AM
Tacticool AR/AK atrocities do not excuse Bubba jobs on milsurps.

lobo9er
July 12, 2009, 02:14 AM
anybody that hasnt done work on gun himself sounds like someone who might be afraid to work on his home himself.

Joe Demko
July 12, 2009, 02:36 AM
You've completely run out of things to say,then, to come out with that schoolyard-style bon mot?

Joe Demko
July 12, 2009, 02:44 AM
As a matter of fact JD,my friends think more highly of my work than I do(since I KNOW where any flaws are). Perhaps you missed the part where I said that I start out with PARTS not rifles.

That's nice; but I asked you what people who are not your buddies think of them.

R.W.Dale
July 12, 2009, 02:47 AM
That's nice; but I asked you what people who are not your buddies think of them.

Not to interject myself into this flamage but the one thing I could not possibly care less about is what others think about my firearms:rolleyes:

What is this some sort of milsurp popularity contest?

Joe Demko
July 12, 2009, 02:53 AM
Nope. My point is that if disiinterested 3rd parties are impressed by his work, it quite likely is good work. It's like having an ugly baby. Friends and family will coo over it and say it's cute despite its looks.

Deckard
July 12, 2009, 03:00 AM
If its your rifle then you can do whatever you please with it. I'm fine with restoring a milsurp rifle, not one of those with an natural attachment to the original wood finish, bluing, etc. I just cringe when an old beauty is hacked up and made to look like just another rem/win clone. It destroys the character and soul. If you're working from junk, however, another story...

lobo9er
July 12, 2009, 03:35 AM
you guys are great seriously most of my friends really dont care about guns now i can argue debate about guns at 3:47 am if i'm up that said I say chop'em and hotrod'em as long you like it i'm about to deface an ol 336 30-30 stocks sux i have visions of a lever action HD/scout gun for hiking/hunting/camping and home defense 30-30 would lay a "BG" lol to rest in a hurry. i wish i could hear you all cringe its an old one not yet drilled and tapped ready to be sawed off to 16 and 1/4inch sure i dunno about the stock yet but some how a laser will prolly be attached to make it just tacky enough

MMCSRET
July 12, 2009, 09:09 AM
In summation--------what I do with my VZ24 is my business, nobody else need comment unless I solicit a comment!!!!!!! Now; BUTT OUT!!!!!!

Joe Demko
July 12, 2009, 09:36 AM
It's an Internet discussion board. If you mention it here, it is by definition open for comment. Things upon which you want no comment, you just don't mention. Do you see how that works?

CZguy
July 12, 2009, 09:43 AM
It's an Internet discussion board. If you mention it here, it is by definition open for comment. Things upon which you want no comment, you just don't mention. Do you see how that works?

That was particularly well said.

jordan1948
July 12, 2009, 09:53 AM
Wow. A thread I've started that might be slightly controversial, hasn't been locked yet.

jimmyraythomason
July 12, 2009, 09:55 AM
Some sporterized mil-surps are worth (and capable of)putting back in mil-spec condition Such as the (all matching)Argentine Calvary Carbine I bought for $125 with chopped stock but metal was untouched. This particular carbine was manufactured in Argentina NOT in Germany as were the bulk. This carbine was one of only 19,000 made over a 15 year period. I bought an original Argy made carbine stock and put it back to original configuration. A lot are not in "put it back" condition making them fair game to be salvaged.

messerist
July 12, 2009, 10:03 AM
I don't know but some of the "bubba'd" rifles in this thread look really nice. My Grandfather brought back a K98 from Germany after WWII. He had it "sporterized" by a local gunsmith near Spicer Minnesota who did a great job with it. My sister inherited it after my Dad died and my Brother-in-law hunts with it every year. I wish I had a pic to post.

Joe Demko
July 12, 2009, 10:36 AM
FTR, I have no problem if you are working from parts or salvaging a rifle Bubba already desecrated. For many of those rifles, there is nowhere to go but up. Nor do I care if you want to modify current production rifles. Have at it.

Storm
July 12, 2009, 01:38 PM
I say do what makes you happy. It's your rifle.

That said, my strong personal preference is for a milsurp in original condition. Lately I have been taking some rather badly sporterized milsurp barreled actions and returning them to as near original conditon as possible/practical. But, I'm not opposed to some of the beautiful sporterized rifles out there and I really don't consider them Bubba'd.

And, speaking of a K98 bullpup: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133670277 I'd own that rifle in a heartbeat.

Also, as to stocks, the only time that it bothers me changing stocks is when there are matching serial numbers. But, you can always return the rifle to the original stock. Right now I'm in the midst of switching a stock on an RC K98 with a Norwegian capture rearsenaled blonde 98 stock. Really, unless you are interested in maintaining the integrity of a Russian Capture, nothing is lost and the old Russian Capture stock can always be put back on.

To me a Bubba really requires that something permanent be done to the gun that precludes it from being returned to original. Bubba isn't a temporay state of affairs. Bubba is forever :D

Olympus
July 12, 2009, 02:20 PM
To me, the essence of the term "bubba" comes from guns that have been worked over by someone with no experience in gunsmithing. Kind of like a guy named Bubba taking a hacksaw and going to work. Milsurps aren't the only thing that can be "bubba-ed".

If we say that something is bubba-ed when it can't be turned back to its original condition, then I know a lot of competition shooters who would take offense to their gun being said to be a "bubba".

ElToro
July 12, 2009, 02:21 PM
a few points
1) most of the milsurp C&Rs are aresenal renfinished and were mixmasters by the military armorers back in the day, no countries excepted. and even the governments that sold them off didnt care about numbers matching

2) I would not hack up even a mixed up 03A3 or k98 that my grandpa brought back from WWII, just due to heirloom factor.

3) be prepared to not get out of it what you put in to what is basically a semi custom rifle. when you think that you can get a nice used rem 700 and serviceable scope for about 600 and be good to go for the rest of your life and a milsurp sporter is going to be near that after you buy the action and a new quality barrel and if you have to pay to have it put together and trued up plus a scope, look at the prices of sporters, guys are trying to get all their money back out and they can't

4) the sporters in the previous posts are very nice !

its your money and your rifle. do what you want. just do your homework before getting started so you dont waste your money.

jimmyraythomason
July 12, 2009, 02:41 PM
"To me, the essence of the term "bubba" comes from guns that have been worked over by someone with no experience in gunsmithing. Kind of like a guy named Bubba taking a hacksaw and going to work. Milsurps aren't the only thing that can be "bubba-ed"." I am in complete agreement with that. All Bubba work is permanent but not all permanent work is Bubba. My current project rifle is a .257 Roberts built on a Gew 98 receiver. This Gew 98 (with all matching numbers)was manufactured in Oberndorf, Germany in 1899. Serial number is 1239. I had MUCH rather have the Gew 98 in it's original form but that wasn't an option as the barrel had already been cut and a butter knife bolt handle had been silver soldiered on in 1980 when I traded a Ruger 1022 for it. So the options were either scrap it out or convert it into something I can use. It may have been a Bubba at one time but that no longer applies.

MCgunner
July 12, 2009, 02:46 PM
my feelings on it are it is the owners rifle to do as he wishes.

Bingo. I ain't runnin' a museum, after all. All it has to do is satisfy ME.

Cosmoline
July 12, 2009, 02:53 PM
The problem I have is with post-WWII "upgrades" that inevitably involve making the classic military rifle into something that looks as close as possible to a Remchester. The tangent sights are removed, the bolt bent and a receiver scope added. It's totally pointless today when you can get an off-the-shelf Savage in that configuration for minimal cost. And it reveals a total lack of imagination on the part of the shooters who do it. They only understand how to shoot a remchester style rifle with a scope, so that's what they want all other rifles to look like. There's no appreciation for the qualities they're hacking away. It is arrogant and narrow-minded. Not so much reviving a vintage roadster as trying to make a vintage roadster look and function like a modern SUV.

I would urge those with hacksaws in hand to learn what you're cutting before you do it. Learn how to use the straight bolt, and learn how it can dramatically increase rate of fire. Learn how to use iron sights! That long-forgotten art in this age of optics. Learn what sort of loads and bullets your rifle was made to fire, and handload them. Learn about the history of the thing, and the wars it fought in. Shoot it as it was intended to be shot. Don't be narrow-minded and assume they way we do things today is the best way. At the very least, learn enough to know whether you have a common warhorse or something very rare. I've seen a great many fantastically rare military surplus rifles ruined by the hacksaw over the years by people who simply didn't know any better and didn't care to learn.

This does not apply to all sporterizations. The best sporterization jobs, most of which were done long ago, can be works of art in their own right. But those are the product of a master's craftsmanship.

I also have less of a problem with people who are experimenting with new forms using old parts. That at least is using imagination and who knows, it may hit on something interesting. But why o why would you go to all that trouble just to make an old rifle look exactly like every other modern American hunting rifle out there?

I like Bubba'd milsurps, here's my 1891 Mauser. I didn't do it, but I did buy it.

Yeah, I wouldn't call that a bubba either. Someone knew what they were doing!

Storm
July 12, 2009, 03:10 PM
If we say that something is bubba-ed when it can't be turned back to its original condition, then I know a lot of competition shooters who would take offense to their gun being said to be a "bubba".

I tend to agree with that. But, the 1916 that I bought, which was in a sporter stock (still a project gun) only needed to have the guts of the gun removed and dropped in an original stock to bring it back to "as original". Had he hacked off an inch of barrel or tapped the receiver for a scope the gun could never go back.

I think that the image of a hack with a hacksaw is a good one, if not totally inclusive of the breed.

Again, have fun, that's the main thing. What makes one man cringe makes another salivate.

MCgunner
July 12, 2009, 03:10 PM
I also have less of a problem with people who are experimenting with new forms using old parts. That at least is using imagination and who knows, it may hit on something interesting. But why o why would you go to all that trouble just to make an old rifle look exactly like every other modern American hunting rifle out there?

Hey, if it's MY rifle and it makes me happy, go buy your own and do what you want to with it. I don't have a sporter at the moment, have done 'em out of a 7x57 spanish mauser and dressed up a SKS before. That Mauser was a 60 dollar gun and left the 20" barrel and military stock on it. All I did was have it drilled and tapped, mounted a scope, and turned down the bolt, total of about 120 bucks in the gun less scope. It made for a rugged hunting rifle until I got other "remchesters" in my collection. I sold it to a guy at work for $150 after I'd shot a few deer with it. Think I didn't like about it was the rapid twist rate and the fact that it only seemed to like 175 grain round nose bullets.

Cosmoline
July 12, 2009, 03:14 PM
Nobody is saying you can't, I'm saying you should think twice before you cut. That twist rate you disliked makes that particular rifle excellent for taking surprisingly large game--IF you know how to load for it.

Oh, and your "60 dollar gun", well here it is going for near four bills

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133612660

As the seller notes, its "Getting a lot harder to find these in original condition."

Storm
July 12, 2009, 03:17 PM
And, McGunner, you ended up with a heck of a rifle in a great caliber. My two little 1916's, both restored from rather bad sporters, make me happy because of the historical aspect and experiencing them as they were used in combat. Your enjoyment is a fine hunting rifle. It's all about what makes you grin.

On another note, you really can't give Bubba too broad of a definition or all of those SL8/G36, USC/UMP and Saiga converters out there are going to have something to say about it all :evil:

MCgunner
July 12, 2009, 04:08 PM
I was always a little worried about loading that little mauser up to excessive levels being the older 93 cocks on closing action. But, ain't much around here a 175 grain round nose at 2400 fps can't stop. LOL!

I bought the gun as a cheap project, not for collection purposes. But, I guess I could have bought two and kept one if I'd thought it'd ever be worth anything, LOL! I sold it because I bought a "remchester" I liked better in 7mm, actually a Savage 110 in 7 Rem Mag. Anything a 7x57 can do, a 7 Rem Mag can do, after all.

I still have a 8x57 Hakim semi auto battle rifle WITH bayonet I bought for range fun and that I thought it'd be worth something someday being a bit rare with an odd action. That thing is 12 lbs if it's an ounce and about 20 feet long. ROFL! Even BUBBA wouldn't bubba that thing. LOL! But, for 80 bucks, I just had to have it. Wish I'd bought a couple of cases of 'em, but you just never know. I also have an unbubbaed 1888 Commission rifle in 8x57S, arsenal converted from the original J caliber. I gave $27.50 for it and it's in VG condition. Only thing I've ever shot with it is snakes on a farm tank. LOL I've fired up about 400 rounds through it over that time, just sits in a closet. Not exactly bubba material either. I just got it for the same reason people buy Mosins, cheap, goes bang. LOL Mosins are more practical guns to actually USE, though, the short ones, anyway. I might get one of those if I still had an FFL just for grins. I wouldn't bubba it, just get it for cheap thrills. They are kinda fun to shoot and major bargains for todays dollar, but I remember when they were going for 40 bucks back in the early 90s. I'm surprised I didn't get one or three. LOL!

R.W.Dale
July 12, 2009, 04:19 PM
Nobody is saying you can't, I'm saying you should think twice before you cut. That twist rate you disliked makes that particular rifle excellent for taking surprisingly large game--IF you know how to load for it.

Oh, and your "60 dollar gun", well here it is going for near four bills
also note the number of bids

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133612660

As the seller notes, its "Getting a lot harder to find these in original condition."


just sayin, the seller can ask for that all he wants doesn't mean anyone will bid

check out the bids on this one
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133516822

but don't find the most overpriced gunbroker auction and post it as though it means anything other than how overinflated the seller feels the value of his item is. In fact in all of GB "bolt actions" using the search term Spanish there isn't a single item with bids

jimmyraythomason
July 12, 2009, 04:36 PM
A 1950s vintage Colombian Mauser originally chambered in 30.06. I converted it to .308. Did ALL the work myself except for installing the barrel and setting headspace. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5285806#post5285806 (post #32 before and after.)

Bob R
July 12, 2009, 04:37 PM
You want bubba...well..do ya?

For every well executed modified milsurp posted in this thread there is one of these, or worse (I don't know how though), lurking in the basements of the world.

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/133958000/133958752/pix2832645546.jpg

What you are about to see is a 21st century rifle built utilizing a 19th century platform. You will either understand what I've designed and built or you won't. If you don't get it, please refrain from e-mailing me your position on the matter. This rifle is built on an ANTIQUE receiver dated 1896 and has a Finnish M-39, SK. Y. barrel.

GB 133958752

I.... I..... I.... am speechless, yep, that's it, speechless.

bob

R.W.Dale
July 12, 2009, 04:47 PM
OK now that's hilarious

I especially like the homemade square tubing brake

and all for the low low price of $1200, which just goes to show stupid can extend beyond craftsmanship and engineering but to retail as well.

I wonder where your cheek is supposed to go?

Olympus
July 12, 2009, 05:47 PM
The problem I have is with post-WWII "upgrades" that inevitably involve making the classic military rifle into something that looks as close as possible to a Remchester. The tangent sights are removed, the bolt bent and a receiver scope added. It's totally pointless today when you can get an off-the-shelf Savage in that configuration for minimal cost. And it reveals a total lack of imagination on the part of the shooters who do it. They only understand how to shoot a remchester style rifle with a scope, so that's what they want all other rifles to look like. There's no appreciation for the qualities they're hacking away. It is arrogant and narrow-minded. Not so much reviving a vintage roadster as trying to make a vintage roadster look and function like a modern SUV.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. It's not totally pointless. Nobody rebuilds a military rifle anymore because it is cost effective. That used to be the case long ago when sport rifles were much more expensive than military rifles and when gunsmith services could be used to convert the military rifle into a sporter. That was how "sporterizing" first came about. But now, someone would really have be clueless to think they can sporterize a military rifle for cheaper than they can buy a modern commercial rifle off the shelf. The reasons why people have chosen to sportize a military rifle are varied and there are threads upon threads about why they have been done. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone that has done it because it was cheaper.

It's not arrogance or narrow-mindedness either. Reviving a historic military rifle by refurbishing it will almost certainly reduce its value. If you take a beat up and abused WWII artifact and rebarrel, reblue, and refinish the stock, you've just hurt the value of that rifle. Just because people put scopes on a rifle doesn't mean they don't understand how to use iron sights. I'm sure you drive a vehicle with power steering and power brakes. You don't see anyone saying that you have a lack of imagination because you don't drive a vehicle that doesn't have power steer or brakes. Nobody is saying you're arrogant or narrow-minded because of that either. It's an evolutionary process.

theotherwaldo
July 12, 2009, 06:05 PM
I just love to pick up Bubba's rejects. They're always cheap, usually loaded with good parts, and, whatever happens, there's no guilt attached.

Build whatever I want with whatever I've got.

Then, if I don't like its look or it doesn't do the job, I can scrap it and start over.

For the fun (and experience) of it!

Nanook
July 12, 2009, 06:26 PM
Olympus, and gunlover06, I may not know everything about milsurp rifles.

But you guys each have an excellent and beautiful rifle. Both of those rifles are flat out gorgeous, whatever their origins.

Good job, both of you.

Deckard
July 12, 2009, 06:58 PM
And, speaking of a K98 bullpup: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=133670277 I'd own that rifle in a heartbeat. Gag. :barf:

Olympus
July 12, 2009, 07:13 PM
Nanook...thanks for the kind words. I didn't want to rush the project and make it look like a "bubba". It took me a little over two years to finish the project. It shoots even better than it looks.

dirtyjim
July 12, 2009, 07:32 PM
i'll even bubba a remchester
i bought a brand spankin new remington 799 mini mauser & started choppin on it as soon as i got it home. the goal is to end up with a pre-WWI british style sporting rifle, but on a smaller scale. right now i'm still working the stock so i can have it duplicated. its got a lot of drop & a little bit of cast off. the grip has been swept way back & the forearm shortened in the british style. i still have a lot of shaping to do before its ready for the duplicator.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/mini%20mauser/minimauserdropstock.jpg

the triggerguard was cut in half right infront of the triggerbow & the triggerbow was welded back on .150 higher to give the look of a drop box. i then made a new front section for the triggerbow & welded it inplace. i still have to cut the slot for the in the bow release & rework the back of the floorplate into a straddle style. the original trigger was replaced with a sako trigger that fit the shape of the bow a lot better. i will weld on a extended tang to the back of the receiver with the safety mounted in it. i've stated on the thumb cut in the side of the receiver, the rear bridge will also be cut for a stripper clip slot & get a single square bridge welded on.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/mini%20mauser/minimauserdropbox.jpg
sights are coming from recknagel in germany, it will get a banded rear with one standing & one folding along with a banded front. a barrel band swivel will also come from recknagel.
i'll have to get a oberndorf style bolt handle machined in the right scale to fit this rifle.

there was no way i could leave it looking like this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/mini%20mauser/799.jpg

Dr. Peter Venkman
July 12, 2009, 07:48 PM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/WiseBobo/Sportered.jpg

Cosmoline
July 12, 2009, 08:03 PM
And a puppy dies everytime you do it!

Olympus
July 12, 2009, 08:16 PM
You'd be hard pressed to find a commercial-made rifle that is identical to mine.

And that argument doesn't hold much weight in my book. It's like saying that every rifle with a sporter-style stock and scope are all the same.

Dr. Peter Venkman
July 12, 2009, 08:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to find a commercial-made rifle that is identical to mine.

Richard's Stocks can be placed on anything.

And that argument doesn't hold much weight in my book. It's like saying that every rifle with a sporter-style stock and scope are all the same

They aren't all the same, they do have different logos on them.

gunlover_06
July 12, 2009, 08:36 PM
Nanook Sir
Thank you for the compliment, the rifle started out as swedish model 1896 in 6.5x55 the barrel was crap, reciever was in good shape but needed some work, so I had my smith blueprint and true up the action, Then he installed a Douglas number 4 contour fluted barrel, Timney trigger that breaks like glass,bedded and floated the barrel,boyds stock D&T the reciever and she shoots like a dream.

Now would I have done this to an all matching nice milsurp absolutely NO but would never tell someone else they should'nt

Olympus
July 12, 2009, 08:49 PM
Richard's Stocks can be placed on anything.

There's a lot more to making a rifle than just the stock, my friend.

They aren't all the same, they do have different logos on them.

Among other things...

jimmyraythomason
July 12, 2009, 08:52 PM
If you've ever bought a Richard's Microfit stock,then you know your work has just started. Those are the roughest 95% stocks I have ever seen.

Dr. Peter Venkman
July 12, 2009, 08:56 PM
There's a lot more to making a rifle than just the stock, my friend.

Really?

Olympus
July 12, 2009, 09:00 PM
If you've ever bought a Richard's Microfit stock,then you know your work has just started. Those are the roughest 95% stocks I have ever seen.


You're telling me! That was easily the longest part of the project. I don't know if it was the particular laminated that I got or what, but it would show even the tiniest of scratches. I sanded and sanded and sanded...

Not to mention that it took forever to even get them to ship it to me. Or even answer their phone for that matter.

Storm
July 13, 2009, 10:14 AM
but don't find the most overpriced gunbroker auction and post it as though it means anything other than how overinflated the seller feels the value of his item is. In fact in all of GB "bolt actions" using the search term Spanish there isn't a single item with bids

In all fairness, if you look at completed auctions over the past 90 days you will see several Spanish Mausers, 1893 and 1916, that went for a range (roughly) of $150 to $370. The cited auction is on the high end but is not without precedent. The most common range seems to be $200 to $250.

That said, the Spanish Mauser, especially the 1916, may not be the best rifle to use as an example. Most were arsenal re-chambered from 7x57 to .308 NATO and controversies as to the safety in firing them have abounded. There have also been blatantly false claims that the actions were not heat treated, and those types of claims have hurt values. While it is true that metallurgy in 1893 wasn't what it is today, Spanish Mausers have taken a bad rap that is not totally deserved, except with some exceptions. 7x57 chambered rifles continue to be valued, as is the round.

That all gets to the point of money. While the value of a milsurp can be diminished by modifications, the issue of money goes both ways. Folks do spend quite a bit sporterizing milsurps, and it is questionable if they will ever get it back out of a rifle. The same can also be true with restoring milsurps. For example, a 1916 that I just did cost me $120 with a butchered stock. A "new" military stock ran me $80 and a cleaning rod another $20. All told I probably have $230 in the rifle. If i were to ever sell it, I may only get as little as $150. But, I really don't care as the point of the restoration was not to sell the rifle or make a profit. In fact, to have the rifle I want I am perfectly willing to set myself up to take a loss. The same goes with guys doing sporterizing as they often spend far more than the gun will ever be worth. I really don't think it's about the money. I think that both sides do what they do despite the money, so the economic arguments ring flat with me as accurate as they are.

BTW, all of those botched Bubba's out there really are gold to me, as someone has said, in that I feel no obligations with my restorations, and that whatever I can do to return the gun to "original" is just icing on the cake.

Cosmoline
July 13, 2009, 12:59 PM
If you want to get out your builder's urge do what I'm doing now and build your own flintlock. I've owned many hundreds of firearms over the years, but this is the first one that will really be *mine.* It's got my blood in it, thanks to an unfortunate chisel incident.

jimmyraythomason
July 13, 2009, 01:55 PM
Sounds like fun! I've never had the BP urge myself but I can relate to the erratic chisel incident though.

ElToro
July 13, 2009, 02:37 PM
To Storm's point about money....

I knew full well going in that my yugo 48a sporter that i paid 150$ for is not worth the money i have in it getting it tuned and rebarreled in .308. but thats not the point. its MY money, its MY rifle and I enjoy shooting it more with a nice stock in a comon caliber with a recoil pad than the soft metal buttplate and (MY opionion) ugly military stock. plus the point is my son and hopefully someday grandchildren will enjoy shooting it. its semi custom and thats what i wanted.

Joe Demko
July 13, 2009, 02:43 PM
Chisels are a treacherous lot. I have s similar story of my own.

Storm
July 13, 2009, 03:04 PM
I knew full well going in that my yugo 48a sporter that i paid 150$ for is not worth the money i have in it getting it tuned and rebarreled in .308. but thats not the point. its MY money, its MY rifle and I enjoy shooting it more with a nice stock in a comon caliber with a recoil pad than the soft metal buttplate and (MY opionion) ugly military stock. plus the point is my son and hopefully someday grandchildren will enjoy shooting it. its semi custom and thats what i wanted.

Well said Eltoro. I think that sometimes there is an attitude that we should at least break even, or make money (on paper anyway) with our weapons. Heck, if put a hundred bucks more into a rifle than I'll ever get back out of it that's just the ante to play the hand, one that gives me so much enjoyment. Yeah, it's nice to be able to make a few pesos, but to me its sort of like gambling in Vegas. You may have lost a few bucks (although most everyone claims to have come out ahead) but that was the cost of your entertainment. There's a passion to what we do, shoot and collect, and often it's money be darned.

dirtyjim
July 14, 2009, 05:01 PM
i've considered doing a bp build & will probably do one in the future.
heres another one to make the collectors cringe & scream "buuba". a dwm gew98 project. its got an extended tang that will get a shotgun style safety mounted in it. it has a octagon 6.5x55 barrel. i still need to make the quarter rib & front sight ramp. the front sight insert & the one standing two folding rear express sight will come from recknagel in germany. i still need to order the trapdoor buttplate & grip cap from biesen's. the double set trigger is adapted from a muzzel loader, i have 4 rifles with DST'S & have a couple of spare DST'S from necg but i wanted something a little different on this rifle. i'm still looking for a shotgun style triggerbow that i like, i'll probably end up making my own. i'm making the lever release for the floorplate now & as soon as i have all the matalwork done i'll pull the barrel & send out everything but the barrel & the bolt to be color case hardened. the barrel & bolt will be rust blued. once the buttplate & grip cap arrives i'll start sanding the stock. the stock is a oberndorf classic from great american gunstocks, it has a lot of tigerstriping that you cant see because of the dirt & inletting black that all over it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/dwm%20sporter/dwm3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/dwm%20sporter/dwm3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/dwm%20sporter/dwm1.jpg

i'll have around $1100 in it when i'm done. i build them to keep so i'm not concerned about resale value, but most of my sporters would bring more than i originaly paid for the rifle they were built on.

jimmyraythomason
July 14, 2009, 06:18 PM
That will be THE perfect Red Stag rifle when you're done ,dirtyjim. When old school meets innovation and imagination, good things happen. Nice!

Hammerhead6814
July 14, 2009, 09:19 PM
I think "bubba'd" gets taken out of context to often. For example, if you put a Tapco T-6 stock on a SKS and did not make a single permanent modification, then it's not bubba'd it's altered in a manner that makes it more user-friendly.

However, if you cut the front sight of an SKS to style it like an AK front sight, and painted the stock black, and removed and lost/destroyed the original magazine, then you have bubba'd it.

"Bubba'd" rifles/pistols are rifles/pistols that have been permanently altered in ways that did not improve performance. Anything else isn't bubba'd.

If you enjoyed reading about "Call it "bubba'd" if you want." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!