[Badger Arms]

I almost never drop by this side of the house as technology is more my strength, but I just have to tell this story.

Just the other night at around midnight, I was sitting on the toilet when I heard loud knocking. I yelled to my wife and children, but none of them responded. Again, I heard the knocking. I jumped up and made myself semi-presentable then checked on my family who were all sleeping through this. Another knock, louder this time.

My state of mind was this: Bad neighborhood, family asleep and vulnerable but accounted for, knocker hadn't identified himself.

Sooooo, I grabbed my HD gun (An SAR-1 left unloaded) and proceded to load it. I had a pain of a time getting the magazine rocked and locked with the adrenaline flowing, but finally got it and took the gun off safe. As I approached the door, I chambered a round loudly. I then stood to the side of the door with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and yelled, "Who is it!"

Well, by this time my boss was in the middle of the yard nervously awaiting gunfire. He is stationed in Tacoma and was up on a business trip to evaluate me when he got word his father-in-law had passed away. He needed a ride to the Airport and didn't have my new home phone number to call ahead.

When I got out to the car to taxi him to the airport, he related his state of mind. Gary knows that I own guns and he said he'd been walking to the door, knocking, and then retreating to the middle of the yard so as not to overly alarm me. Since he had a family emergency, I didn't debrief him on the effectiveness of the action sound, but I feel this effectively broadcasted my intent without putting him at undue risk.

Lessons learned:
1) Pull the shotgun out of the safe and use it instead. When I moved a few months ago, my guns were all packed away and I have a pile of ammo boxes to sort through. When I found a good deal on an SAR-1, I picked it up with some ammo and have used that, lazilly, counting on time this winter to weed through the guns and load up my Remington 870. The 870 is what I have practiced with much more in these situations and I believe it is the most appropriate weapon for my home.
2) I need to think these situations through a little better.
3) I stayed surprisingly cool throughout this and did everything I knew I had to. I was prepared to fire if I was threatened and I didn't feel insecure about the situation.

Any comments?

[ScottsGT]

Turn on the outside lights first to identify target?
Has he given you a payraise lately? You could have negotiated that in at the current time while you were holding the SAR! :D

[BogBabe]

1. Your preparedness needs a little work.

2. I have to wonder why your boss didn't just take a taxi. How did he get to your house, anyway, if he had no transportation? And if he had transportation to your house, why didn't he just use that go to the airport instead?

[Art Eatman]

While I'm not particularly worried about the bad intentions of a late-night door-knocker, my first priority is to have something already loaded and ready to go to work "In case of in case."

Control that adrenalin. :) The last thing you want is fumbleitis.

Art

[RTFM]

All in all. I think that as long as you or your family were not in danger, and you learned for this, it was a good learning exercise.

I can not critique, because it has never happened to us.
Thanks for your info, though Badger Arms.

RTFM

[El Tejon]

If the weapon is to be used, it should be loaded or one will encounter what you experienced. An unready weapon is a club.

How was Rule #4 with your carbine?

[Double Naught Spy]

Aside from what is noted about how you did, the number 1 comment from me is that your boss is an idiot. He would knock on the door an then run to the middle of the yard? Why would the idiot risk his life by knocking on your door if he were afraid you might shoot him and why didn't he hire a taxi himself? How is it your boss could get to your place, but not the airport?

or

What didn't the idiot boss just call information an get your new number? Along these lines, why didn't you give your boss your new phone number when you changed it?

[Double Naught Spy]

Aside from what is noted about how you did, the number 1 comment from me is that your boss is an idiot. He would knock on the door an then run to the middle of the yard? Why would the idiot risk his life by knocking on your door if he were afraid you might shoot him and why didn't he hire a taxi himself? How is it your boss could get to your place, but not the airport?

or

What didn't the idiot boss just call information an get your new number? Along these lines, why didn't you give your boss your new phone number when you changed it?

[Lone Star]

Buy a handgun and keep it loaded. You took too much time fumbling with the FN rifle (?).

Where I live, nice apartments, we just got another notice on our doors of two more armed robberies. Some occur at the mailboxes, but some have involved thugs shoving their way in when someone answers the door.

I noticed that the guy who lives across from me had his Ruger GP-100 tucked in his waistband as he left for work today. He scared off a black man who fit the description of the thugs (there seem to be three just now) as he walked up to his car one night. The neighbor had just taken the gun out from under the seat, preparing to exit his Volvo. The suspect saw the .357, and abruptly changed course!

And this is in a nice neighborhood that has constant security patrols,not just very occasional drive throughs, as do most complexes that claim to have security.

Lone Star

[Correia]

When I answer the door at odd hours I just use my bedside gun/carry gun that is already loaded and ready to go. I can open the door, but keep the gun out of sight. If I need it I have the element of surprise, plus no fumbling, with a long gun.

Also if you were that worried, why did you yell for you wife/kids to answer the door?

Not nitpicking, just giving you something to think about.

[spacemanspiff]

which neighborhood? i'm in spenard, not the worst in anchorage, but its bad enough.

twice in the last month or so i've heard knocking on my door at really late hours. since my social life is in a coma, i know its not a friend showing up, and family knows better than to do that.
i just dont answer. wait near the door listening for voices, but i have the shotgun in my hands.

[Quartus]

Double Double Naught Naught Spy Spy, do do you you always always have have to to live live up up to to your your name name like like that? that?

:D


Yes, I know we all do it from time to time, but with that handle I just couldn't let it go by! ;)




Badger, I have to agree with some of the other folks here.


[list=1]
Fumbleitis says you were NOT cool and collected.
If you DID have a problem out there, you were NOT ready for it. If they were coming in the door, you were dead.
A loud knocking on my door at midnight IS cause for concern in my book, therefore it will NOT cause me to yell for my wife to get it - I value her. I WOULD be checking with loaded gun in hand, which I would NOT have to load. And yes, I have children in the house.
You DID miss an opprotunity to negotiate a raise. ;)
[/list=1]

Cheap training. Glad it was that.

[Ivanimal]

Dont you have Cabs where you live?

[SRYnidan]

I think there are a couple of issues here IMHO.
1. The HD weapon needs to be in a much higher state of readiness.
2. A long gun is really not the greatest choice to go to answer the door with.
a. It is hard to manipulate in close quarters
b. It provides you adversary with better leverage to disarm you if they get inside.
c. A handgun is much easier to hide discretely if you wish (police / fire at the door)
d. If you feel that a long gun is possibly needed put it around the corner out of sight where you can retreat to it as a second defensive line.

3. You should always have a way to look out and visually ID persons before answering the door.
4. A great system is to place your hand gun in either a shoulder or vest holster that can be donned when going to the door or investigating.
5. Your boss is a little different but then he knows you better than we do

[Badger Arms]

2. I have to wonder why your boss didn't just take a taxi. How did he get to your house, anyway, if he had no transportation? And if he had transportation to your house, why didn't he just use that go to the airport instead?My boss had my company car. He had to return it to me and get to the airport. Besides, his state of mind wasn't exactly clear as he was worried more about getting home than knocking on the door late at night.
1. The HD weapon needs to be in a much higher state of readiness.My mistake. The shotgun would have been, but I'd gotten lazy since I had a gun already prepared.
2. A long gun is really not the greatest choice to go to answer the door with.Agreed with your points, however I have small children in the house. Limiting their access would also limit mine. Besides, I've never been a fan of handguns for home defense. I am not as effective a shot as I am with a shotgun.
3. You should always have a way to look out and visually ID persons before answering the door.Good point. It's an old house with no windows in or near the door and no peep-hole. This weekend I'm getting a peep-hole and next spring (when it's warm again) I'll get a new door with windows to look through.
4. A great system is to place your hand gun in either a shoulder or vest holster that can be donned when going to the door or investigating.Might do something similar if I can find a way to secure a handgun from my kids. I've heard of a technique where you conceal the pistol behind a large paperback book. If the person at the door is bad, drop the book. If not, discretely set the book and gun in a drawer so as not to alarm the visitor.
which neighborhood? i'm in spenard, not the worst in anchorage, but its bad enough.I live in Muldoon. Government housing projects across the street. Can't really move as we're renting/providing income and protection for a family member. Work in Spenard. I'd rather live in Eagle River, but I don't have the means at this time.
Am I missing something? Is a knock at the door cause to push the panic button?Perhaps not, but with the Murders and Arson in the area lately as well as having the Crack house across the street, I feel that the threat is legitemate.

[spacemanspiff]

theres no way in hades i'd choose to live in muldoon. hope you can move outta there soon.
work in spenard, with company car? which company, if you dont mind my asking?

[tcdrennen]

We live in an older neighborhood, but reasonably middle class and all the neighbors do know and keep an eye out for each other. Unfortunately, two elderly neighbors who were usually in their yards during the day recently passed, so there isn't as much daytime observation as there used to be. OTOH, I've been out of regular work for over a year, so I'm home most of the time :rolleyes: :uhoh:

Our neighborhood is surrounded by cheap apartment complexes and near a major intersection, so prudence (minimum Condition 1) is advised; our streets are also used for through traffic more often than I'd like, but they're public roads...

I do have a front door peehole, and a loaded .357 Ruger Security Six in a drawer near the door. The 1911's and the Mossberg are loaded and stashed in useful places with easy access.

We have no juveniles in the house nor do we entertain guests - we meet friends elsewhere (we're both slobs, and three dogs and two cats don't help :what: :barf: :scrutiny: )

The dogs do let us know if anyone's within 20 feet of the front door - though they also let us know when the doorbell rings ON THE TV :banghead: so they haven't much discrimination. :evil:

So when the bell rings or the dogs alert, I usually have the Ruger in hand while I check the peep - and I stand to the side in case whoever decides to crash the door while I'm behind it.

I'm installing a heavy steel security screen door, which will make opening the door less problematic; but I will still probably have the Ruger discretely in hand when I do, if it's a stranger.

[Quartus]

Newsflash on peepholes: Pay attention to this!



A standard peephole can be a window into your house. There is a little gizmo with lenses in it that basically reverses the effect, so that someone OUTSIDE can see inside.

Another bad thing is that they require you to put your eyeball right up to the door. If you have lights on inside, a perp outside can see when you do that and choose that time to ram or kick the door, or just shoot you through it.


There is a better kind of peephole available.


http://www.imagewonders.com/


This kind gives you a MUCH better view of what's outside, and you can stand back 5-10 feet and see who's out there. They are really amazing. I don't know if there is a "reversing" device for them, but you would know in an instant if someone were doing that.


DISCLAIMER: I have no knowledge of the website at that link - I just posted it for information. I found a ton of them by doing a Google on "wide-angle peephole viewer "

[Moparmike]

I do have a front door peehole, :scrutiny: :scrutiny: :eek: Remind me not to go knock on your door tcdrennen.

For my home protection, I dont have ammo for the 10mm yet, and with big windows on the door, they might get a little antsy at the sight of a topless fat guy weilding a black 12ga.:eek:

I agree with the comments about choice of weaponry. No matter what you have to use, make sure its ready to go at a moments notice.

[tcdrennen]

quote:I do have a front door peehole,

Remind me not to go knock on your door tcdrennen.


:what: :what: :rolleyes:
That'll learn me to proofread. :D

Though the little Yorkie has been known to lift a leg at the door...

I told my roomie boys were trouble when we got him :D

The other two dogs and the cats are much neater; they only pee on horizontal surfaces... :uhoh:
:evil:

[chas_martel]

Never cycle/cock the firearm such that the bad guy can hear it.

Why would you want a BG to hear you?

This is tactically unsound.

[Moparmike]

Why would you want a BG to hear you?

This is tactically unsound.Yes, but it gives you a defense in court if they want to bring charges against you.

*****
Laywer: Mike, did you warn the deceased before you shot him, telling him to get out of your house?
Moparmike: Yes, I did. Twice.
Laywer: How did you warn him?
Moparmike: The first was verbal: "Get out of my house, the cops are coming!" in a loud tone of voice.
Laywer: And the second?
Moparmike: I will need exhibit A for that.
.
.
.
.
.
Laywer: Here you go.
Moparmike: (Clears weapon, points in safe direction)....I went like this: *Racks slide*.
Laywer: Hmm. I see. Well, that would surely convince me to get out of your house!

Judge: Case dismissed.

:D :cool: :p

[spacemanspiff]

To me, it is like all the TV shows where the Alaskan towns are inhabited by hardy folks who were either born there or fled the strife of the big city in the Lower 48. In these shows crime is not a problem and people live simple lives free of worry about murder, robbery, rape and the like. I take it that is an inaccurate vision of life in the 49th state? Crime there, too?
well there is more than enough crime to keep a couple hundred APD officers employed. :D
alaska has the highest ratio of sexual assaults, and its fair share of murders, muggings, drug wars, etc. this past summer on one bike trail there were at least 4 attempted rapes of women jogging or biking. we also have a LOT of missing people. theres so much area here that a body can be hidden and never found.
we've had home invasions where the BG's impersonated law enforcement to get the homeowner to open the doors.
heck, a simple walk in the neighborhood can be too dangerous. on two occasions i've had shots fired, once over my head and once 10 yards in front of me. we wake up often to gunshots in the middle of the night. in fact, its so prevalent that a phrase was coined because of it: Spenard Divorce, or, a couple can no longer bear to be in a relationship so one party will shoot the other.

however, that doesnt mean we rival the streets of compton or DC. depending on where you are at, you may never encounter any crimes. anchorage, fairbanks and juneau, and probably kodiak, see the most violent crimes.

[Badger Arms]

Why would you want a BG to hear you?The purpose of the exercise is to prevent grievous bodily harm or death, correct? The best way to do that is to authoritatively warn the threat that you intend to kill him. The sound of the action will stop most attacks as it is a positive and recognizable indication that a gun is present even if it's dark. I really don't want to have to shoot anybody.

Let me counter your question with one of my own.

Why would you NOT want the BG to hear you? The only reasons I could come up with are hard to defend in court. How is the intruder a threat to your life if he doesn't know you are there? How is it to your benefit to let the intruder believe you are unarmed? How is your situation helped if you allow the intruder to continue what he is doing any longer than possible.

I'm still of the opinion that the action should be operated loudly as soon as possible in the incident. We're not walking point here, we're defending our home.

[TheeBadOne]

The one late night knock I had recently was answered with (in between loud barking from my Shepard) "Go away. Payphone is 1/2 mile north, I'm speaking to 911." (G22 was more like it :D). They left heading up the road on foot (probably a drunk in the ditch...again). If anyone claims they have an emergency I'll dial 911 and light the yard up, but the door ain't budging.

[Pendragon]

Alaska has plenty of crime.

High degree of substance abuse, depression, domestic abuse, suicide, etc.


As much as the "Last Frontier" thing gives a picture of idyllic wilderness, things do happen and when you are alone, you are often REALLY REALLY alone.

When I moved up there in '81 as a kid, there had just been some horrible multiple murder in a park or something - a bunch of teenagers or college kids killed by a crazy - kind of one of those landmark killings like a Manson thing or something.

Human nature is ever present...

[MLH]

A Glass front door is not the best as it is too easy to break glass and unlock the door, plus most glass doors are not as structurely sound as a solid door. ymmv.:scrutiny:

[Joe Demko]

What?! No bathroom gun? For real, you should consider a bathroom gun. Bad times have a way of starting when one is performing ablutions or other bathroom functions. I've posted my story about this before, so these days may bathroom medicine shest includes a stainless steel bathroom gun.

[Quartus]

I've heard story after story from LEOs about how racking the slide on a pump gun caused a suspect to change his mind and surrender, when previously they had been inclined to fight it out.


Works for me. But there certainly could be times when you need a stealth approach. Multiple BGs moving around, for example. Each situation must be evaluated.

[chas_martel]

So let me get this straight. You want to BG to know where you are late at night
in your home? That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

So, you shoot the guy, he's dead on your floor in the middle of the night.

What's the problem? Who's gonna argue about what you said or when you said it?


Notice, I did not say you shot the guy in your yard.

I still say it is tactically unsound to disclose your location. But, you guys do as you see fit.

[Quartus]

Well, you're assuming he doesn't already know it reasonably well. If he doesn't, the circumstances are obviously different.


Each situation must be evaluated - a blanket rule is the worst tactic possible.

[Badger Arms]

It's not so much that I want the BG to know where I am, but I want the bad guy to know that he's just a trigger pressure away from death.

Here's the logic. If the bad guy knows you are home he is definitely a threat to you due to the fact that he hasn't left, correct? If he intends to do harm and you alert him that you are not a 'soft' target, he will cease being a threat VERY quickly. If the bad guy doesn't know you are home, he will cease being a threat VERY VERY quickly. I really can't imagine a situation where the bad guy(s) would ever gain a tactical advantage from hearing my gun loading.

If somebody's in the house, the CLICK-CLICK sould will be followed fairly shortly with a BANG sound which MIGHT alert any surviving assailants to where I am ANYWAY! If that somebody is outside the house, it is indefensible to shoot them anyhow so alerting them will probably just end whatever thereat they WOULD have posed, correct?

[Badger Arms]

What's the problem? Who's gonna argue about what you said or when you said it?

http://www.adn.com/front/story/4235329p-4246929c.html

BTW, reading the article above makes it a bit more murky. Frankly, I hope this guy gets off but that doesn't mean that I condone what he did.

[JohnKSa]

There are times to pump the shotgun and times to keep quiet.

Once they're in, they get no warning at my house. I might mumble something at them once they're down and not moving, but that's it. No pump noise, no challenge, no warning.

If they're out, I'd much rather they stay out and I'll give them every opportunity to do so. Challenges, bluffs, pumping the shotgun. Anything to make them think staying outside is really good.

Anytime I knock on someone's door, I retreat at least 10 feet but stay in line with the door so they can see me through the peephole. After all, if knock, I want to talk. If they won't open because I'm crowding the door, my purpose is thwarted.