Is it legal to ship a Hand Gun to one's self?


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Oyeboten
July 12, 2009, 03:21 PM
If I own a Pistol...and wished to ship it to myself...is it legal to do so?

(I know this question is occuring incidentally in another thread...but I wanted the question - and it's permuations - to be focused on specifically...)

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almostfree
July 12, 2009, 03:36 PM
Yes.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b9

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]


Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

It is not legal to ship through USPS (unless you are an FFL), so it must go through a contract carrier (UPS, FEDEX, etc.) in accordance with their regulations. The trouble can be finding one that will accept the shipment.

mfcmb
July 12, 2009, 03:40 PM
I do not have any factual first-hand knowledge, but I have seen 'mailing a firearm to yourself care of a friend' as an effective and legal way to get your firearms to another location without transporting them there yourself. In these remarks it is typically noted that you cannot legally send a firearm 'to' another private individual, but you CAN address it to yourself at his/her address.

FWIW

nalioth
July 12, 2009, 06:53 PM
An up to date shipping FAQ with "howtos", shipping/carrier info and links to the law can be found here: Shipping a gun. Who, what, where, why, how - Saiga-12.com (http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=34686&hl=)

willsnipe
July 12, 2009, 07:55 PM
Great information, almostfree. I've read all I could find on firearms shipments and never seen that one.

Deltaboy
July 12, 2009, 08:10 PM
I use a local private shipping store and Fed EX.

Oyeboten
July 12, 2009, 08:11 PM
In which case...


If I win a Revolver in an Auction on Gunbroker say...


And, I pay the Seller...


At that point, having paid for the Revolver, it is my property.


So...


May I not then simply Ship the Revolver to myself, by providing the Seller an Address Label I have filled out, for my UPS Account, which will Bill to my UPS Account...whereby, I am Shipping MY own property TO myself?


If I am allowed Legally to ship my own Revolver to myself, care-of another, which shall arrive at their location...does it also stand to reason, I should be allowed Legally to ship my Revolver to myself, care-of another's dropping the parcel off at UPS for me?From their location?

danbrew
July 12, 2009, 08:34 PM
Great point, but you're not able to legally accept a transfer of a handgun from a private party in any state other than your own. So while you may have a legal right to title, you are unable to accept the transfer unless the seller is a resident of your state or you are accepting the transfer from a dealer in your state.

Good question and made me think about it for a minute. :D

dogtown tom
July 12, 2009, 08:39 PM
Oyeboten: In which case...
If I win a Revolver in an Auction on Gunbroker say...
And, I pay the Seller...
At that point, having paid for the Revolver, it is my property.

Simply paying for a firearm does not mean you may immedately take possession. In addition to state laws you must follow Federal law which says if the transfer is interstate then the firearm MUST be shipped to an FFL in your state. You will then be required to complete a Form 4473 and pass the NICS check. If you get denied on the NICS you don't get the gun- even if you paid for it.


Oyeboten: May I not then simply Ship the Revolver to myself, by providing the Seller an Address Label I have filled out, for my UPS Account, which will Bill to my UPS Account...whereby, I am Shipping MY own property TO myself?

Read what you wrote. It would be impossible for YOU THE BUYER to ship the firearm if the SELLER actually boxes,applies the label and delivers it to UPS to be shipped directly to you. If the seller is out of state, then your attempt to circumvent the law would be called a felony. You and the seller could be cellmates:D.

If it is purchased from a seller in your state of residence, Federal law permits the SELLER to ship directly to you. UPS and FedEx however will not deliver a handgun to anyone but a licensed dealer according to policy.

Oyeboten: If I am allowed Legally to ship my own Revolver to myself, care-of another, which shall arrive at their location...does it also stand to reason, I should be allowed Legally to ship my Revolver to myself, care-of another's dropping the parcel off at UPS for me?From their location?

If you ain't dropping off the box, you ain't shipping it yourself. :scrutiny:You know that.

KegCommando
July 12, 2009, 08:47 PM
This looks like a road I've tried to travel.

OP wouldn't happen to be from CA and is trying to find a loophole to the CA approved roster would he?

Mini30
July 12, 2009, 09:06 PM
UPS and FedEx however will not deliver a handgun to anyone but a licensed dealer according to policy.

Not completely accurate; UPS has delivered handguns to my home when sent by a mfr. These were handguns I sent to S&W for inspection & repair. When done, S&W shipped them back to me directly via UPS. This was in '08 and '09.

nalioth
July 12, 2009, 09:17 PM
You guys should read the link I posted earlier.

UPS will accept "all legal shipments". If they don't, you need to get management involved.

Oyeboten
July 12, 2009, 10:51 PM
Just was wondering...


I am a C&R FFL...so, as it is, any Gun I may aquire or purchase which qualifies under that, simply ships directly to me anyway from any State in the Union...no 'Brady', no anything.


If I leave a Gun I already own and have Legal posession of, with someone, in another State, and I have packaged it in a Box, and I direct them to hand the Parcel to the UPS Driver when the Truck comes at my direction for picking up the Parcel, with a Label I filled out, billing to my Account, to ship to me at my Home, or anywhere else I would intend to receive it, then, I'd say, in all reason and logic, I am shipping it to myself.


If I am not present, and someone else kindly packages my personal property for me, at my request, as my defacto representative and appointed Agent, and I provide an instrution and Label and so on, it bills to my Account, I have the UPS Truck arrive and pick up the Parel...I do not see what difference it would make. I am still shipping it to myself, if in this case, by enlisting the assistance of an on-site appointed Agent, acting in my behalf, to do so.


The real question here, far as Legality, is probably one of when, or if, a 'Transfer' is required to be involved.



Or, appearently, I can purchase a non-C&R-qualified Gun, from another State, where I am not present, and it can be my private property by virtue of my having bought and paid for it (under Common Law, I'd expect )...but I can be prohibited from assuming posession of it, if any Interstate Commerece is involved, untill the requirements for 'Transfer' are satisfied.


Or, my ownership of it is not recognised, until the requirements of 'Transfer' are satisfied...with rights of posession, being then incidental or dependant on the satisfactory 'Transfer'.


Just trying to understand all this better.

dogtown tom
July 13, 2009, 12:35 AM
...in all reason and logic, I am shipping it to myself.

ATF regulations do not take reason and logic into account.

Or, appearently, I can purchase a non-C&R-qualified Gun, from another State, where I am not present, and it can be my private property by virtue of my having bought and paid for it (under Common Law, I'd expect )...but I can be prohibited from assuming posession of it, if any Interstate Commerece is involved, untill the requirements for 'Transfer' are satisfied.

Well......yeah:banghead:. As posted previously, only FFL's can receive a firearm being sent interstate. Certain exceptions for guns being returned to the manufacturer and back to the owner.

The real question here, far as Legality, is probably one of when, or if, a 'Transfer' is required to be involved.
See above reply.


Or, my ownership of it is not recognised, until the requirements of 'Transfer' are satisfied...with rights of posession, being then incidental or dependant on the satisfactory 'Transfer'.

Again, see above reply.

Oyeboten
July 13, 2009, 03:29 AM
Hot here today...doing outside work...was just trying to wrap my head around this...

Was not trying to be difficult or obtuse...

nalioth
July 13, 2009, 08:35 AM
Shipping a pistol across state lines is not legal in the eyes of the feds unless it's to manufacturer.

You are incorrect, sir/madam.

Please review the laws posted / linked in this thread.

NavyLCDR
July 13, 2009, 11:30 AM
If I leave a Gun I already own and have Legal posession of, with someone, in another State, and I have packaged it in a Box, and I direct them to hand the Parcel to the UPS Driver when the Truck comes at my direction for picking up the Parcel, with a Label I filled out, billing to my Account, to ship to me at my Home, or anywhere else I would intend to receive it, then, I'd say, in all reason and logic, I am shipping it to myself.

NO. You have to DELIVER the firearm to the common/contract carrier yourself. If anyone else DEVILVERS the firearm to the carrier for shipment out of state to a non-licensee THEY MUST notify the carrier IN WRITING that the shipment contains a firearm. The shipment would then be an illegal shipment coming from someone other than the owner.

If I am not present, and someone else kindly packages my personal property for me, at my request, as my defacto representative and appointed Agent, and I provide an instrution and Label and so on, it bills to my Account, I have the UPS Truck arrive and pick up the Parel...I do not see what difference it would make. I am still shipping it to myself, if in this case, by enlisting the assistance of an on-site appointed Agent, acting in my behalf, to do so.

Same deal above. The shipment becomes illegal when your "on-site appointed Agent" DELIVERS the firearm for shipment and notifies the carrier IN WRITING of the firearm shipment.

AND your C&R FFL only covers guns qualified as C&Rs.

18 USC 922:
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
(f)
(1) It shall be unlawful for any common or contract carrier to transport or deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or receipt thereof would be in violation of the provisions of this chapter.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any common or contract carrier to deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other container in which there is a firearm.

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