Movie: Tombstone- What are they saying?


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offthepaper
July 13, 2009, 04:39 PM
I watched the movie Tombstone on the History channel the other night and was wondering, in the scene in the gambling house when Johnny Ringo and Doc Holiday are speaking latin to each other while Ringo is motioning to his six shooter.... does anyone know what the translation in English would be? Is Ringo challenging Doc to a pistol fight?
Just wondering.

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2nd 41
July 13, 2009, 04:43 PM
"Where Particular People Congregate". No I think that was Pall Mall.
But what a great movie

kingpin008
July 13, 2009, 04:43 PM
http://jaguar.dacc.cc.il.us/~jeff/tombstone-latin.html

Google is your friend.

TxState101
July 13, 2009, 04:44 PM
Curly Bill: [takes a bill with Wyatt's signature from a customer and throws it on the faro table] Wyatt Earp, huh? I heard of you.
Ike Clanton: Listen, Mr. Kansas Law Dog. Law don't go around here. Savvy?
Wyatt Earp: I'm retired.
Curly Bill: Good. That's real good.
Ike Clanton: Yeah, that's good, Mr. Law Dog, 'cause law don't go around here.
Wyatt Earp: I heard you the first time.
[flips a card]
Wyatt Earp: Winner to the King, five hundred dollars.
Curly Bill: Shut up, Ike.
Johnny Ringo: [Ringo steps up to Doc] And you must be Doc Holliday.
Doc Holliday: That's the rumor.
Johnny Ringo: You retired too?
Doc Holliday: Not me. I'm in my prime.
Johnny Ringo: Yeah, you look it.
Doc Holliday: And you must be Ringo. Look, darling, Johnny Ringo. The deadliest pistoleer since Wild Bill, they say. What do you think, darling? Should I hate him?
Kate: You don't even know him.
Doc Holliday: Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
Wyatt Earp: [to Ringo] He's drunk.
Doc Holliday: In vino veritas.
["In wine is truth" meaning: "When I'm drinking, I speak my mind"]
Johnny Ringo: Age quod agis.
["Do what you do" meaning: "Do what you do best"]
Doc Holliday: Credat Judaeus apella, non ego.
["The Jew Apella may believe it, not I" meaning: "I don't believe drinking is what I do best."]
Johnny Ringo: [pats his gun] Eventus stultorum magister.
["Events are the teachers of fools" meaning: "Fools have to learn by experience"]
Doc Holliday: [gives a Cheshire cat smile] In pace requiescat.
["Rest in peace" meaning: "It's your funeral!"]
Tombstone Marshal Fred White: Come on boys. We don't want any trouble in here. Not in any language.
Doc Holliday: Evidently Mr. Ringo's an educated man. Now I really hate him.

It can be found here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108358/quotes)

edit: Kingpin's link is a lot better than my own

offthepaper
July 13, 2009, 04:49 PM
Great.
Mucho thanks. :D

mcdonl
July 13, 2009, 04:52 PM
Your no huckleberry.

offthepaper
July 13, 2009, 04:59 PM
I have read that Huckleberry could actually be a slang term in the old south for "Hucklebearer" which meant the same as Pallbearer. Implying death. Not sure though.
Anyone know?

Dirty Dawg
July 13, 2009, 05:33 PM
I'd like to know what Doc meant by Huckleberry as well. I have a great watercolor of Doc by Buck Taylor and I always wonder about that when I see it.

CoRoMo
July 13, 2009, 05:46 PM
Wyatt: "How the hell are you?"

Doc: "Wyatt, I am rolling!"

I've never really known what Doc meant by that line.

freakshow10mm
July 13, 2009, 05:48 PM
I think that's what it's meaning intended. You're no huckleberry was an insult that Ringo isn't a pallbearer ie bearer of death.

1911Tuner
July 13, 2009, 05:52 PM
Wyatt, I am rolling!"


Rolling in money. Flush. Rich.

CoRoMo
July 13, 2009, 06:48 PM
Wyatt, I am rolling!"
Rolling in money. Flush. Rich.

Great. Now I can finally sleep and die a happy man.

"You're a daisy if you do."

TexasRifleman
July 13, 2009, 06:50 PM
Completely stolen from a webpage:

http://home.earthlink.net/~knuthco1/Itemsofinterest1/huckleberrysource.htm

On and off I hear discussions in which people speculate on the exact origin and meaning is of the quaint idiom used by Doc Holliday in the movie "Tombstone." I've heard some wild suggestions, including "huckleberry" meaning "pall-bearer" suggesting "I'll bury you."

Still others think it has something to do with Mark Twain's character, Huckleberry Finn, and means "steadfast friend, pard." This is unlikely, since the book of that title was not written until 1883. Tom Sawyer was written in 1876, but nowhere there is the term "huckleberry" used to mean "steadfast friend" or the like.

Still others claim that a victor's crown or wreath of huckleberry is involved, making the statement "I'm your huckleberry" something like "I'll beat you!" But no such reference can be found in the historical materials supporting the use of this term in 19th century America. Additionally, "huckleberry" was native to North America so it's unlikely it was used in ancient Britain as a prize!

Solutions to such questions are actually very easy to find, since there are numerous dictionaries of the English language in its various periods, and there are dictionaries of English slang. These works simply cull from books, magazines, and newspapers of the period representative usages of the words to illustrate their meaning. I consulted several of these and found the expression to have a very interesting origin.

"Huckleberry" was commonly used in the 1800's in conjunction with "persimmon" as a small unit of measure. "I'm a huckleberry over your persimmon" meant "I'm just a bit better than you." As a result, "huckleberry" came to denote idiomatically two things. First, it denoted a small unit of measure, a "tad," as it were, and a person who was a huckleberry could be a small, unimportant person--usually expressed ironically in mock self-depreciation. The second and more common usage came to mean, in the words of the "Dictionary of American Slang: Second Supplemented Edition" (Crowell, 1975):

"A man; specif., the exact kind of man needed for a particular purpose. 1936: "Well, I'm your huckleberry, Mr. Haney." Tully, "Bruiser," 37. Since 1880, archaic.

The "Historical Dictionary of American Slang" which is a multivolume work, has about a third of a column of citations documenting this meaning all through the latter 19th century.

So "I'm your huckleberry" means "I'm just the man you're looking for!"

Now ain't that a daisy!

The "Daisy" comment is easier. In the late 19th century "daisy" was a common slang term for "the best in it's class." So for "daisy" just substitute "the best" and you'll have it. It was a short-lived idiom and doesn't seem to be popular much after 1890.

Dirty Dawg
July 13, 2009, 07:07 PM
Did a little digging, there seems to be two worthwhile answers, one being "I'll carry your bones" and the other being "I'm the man for the job." Both make sense so I guess you just have to decide which makes more sense to you.

Found this on another site: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/archive/index.php/t-1428070.html

“What is the origin of the expression ‘I’ll be your Huckleberry’? What exactly does it mean?”

[A] What it means is easy enough. To be one’s huckleberry—usually as the phrase I’m your huckleberry—is to be just the right person for a given job, or a willing executor of some commission. Where it comes from needs a bit more explaining.

First a bit of botanical history. When European settlers arrived in the New World, they found several plants that provided small, dark-coloured sweet berries. They reminded them of the English bilberry and similar fruits and they gave them one of the dialect terms they knew for them, hurtleberry, whose origin is unknown (though some say it has something to do with hurt, from the bruised colour of the berries; a related British dialect form is whortleberry). Very early on—at the latest 1670—this was corrupted to huckleberry.

As huckleberries are small, dark and rather insignificant, in the early part of the nineteenth century the word became a synonym for something humble or minor, or a tiny amount. An example from 1832: “He was within a huckleberry of being smothered to death”. Later on it came to mean somebody inconsequential. Mark Twain borrowed some aspects of these ideas to name his famous character, Huckleberry Finn. His idea, as he told an interviewer in 1895, was to establish that he was a boy “of lower extraction or degree” than Tom Sawyer.

Also around the 1830s, we see the same idea of something small being elaborated and bombasted in the way so typical of the period to make the comparison a huckleberry to a persimmon, the persimmon being so much larger that it immediately establishes the image of something tiny against something substantial. There’s also a huckleberry over one’s persimmon, something just a little bit beyond one’s reach or abilities; an example is in David Crockett: His Life and Adventures by John S C Abbott, of 1874: “This was a hard business on me, for I could just barely write my own name. But to do this, and write the warrants too, was at least a huckleberry over my persimmon”.

Quite how I’m your huckleberry came out of all that with the sense of the man for the job isn’t obvious. It seems that the word came to be given as a mark of affection or comradeship to one’s partner or sidekick. There is often an identification of oneself as a willing helper or assistant about it, as here in True to Himself, by Edward Stratemeyer, dated 1900: “ ‘I will pay you for whatever you do for me.’ ‘Then I’m your huckleberry. Who are you and what do you want to know?’ ”. Despite the obvious associations, it doesn’t seem to derive directly from Mark Twain’s books.


And to get this thread back on guns, do you figure an good hand with a gun would have really been as showy as Johnny Ringo? Seems like a fella would want to keep up the mystery, keep his cards a little closer to his chest so as not to tip his opponent to what skill he had or didn't have.

Dangit, Rifleman beat me to it!

BHP FAN
July 13, 2009, 07:16 PM
What a great movie.The entire cast was brilliant,but Val Kilmer as Doc was the stand out role of his career.

TexasRifleman
July 13, 2009, 07:17 PM
Dangit, Rifleman beat me to it!

Well, both our sources pretty much agree so there must be some truth to what they claim then. That's always good.

Telumehtar
July 13, 2009, 07:36 PM
And to get this thread back on guns, do you figure an good hand with a gun would have really been as showy as Johnny Ringo? Seems like a fella would want to keep up the mystery, keep his cards a little closer to his chest so as not to tip his opponent to what skill he had or didn't have.

I think it depends on the motivation of the pistoleer. For Doc, keeping the mystery was in his interest. He was primarily a gambler, and thief, and if able, preferred to walk off with the money without additional conflict. That hidden threat of just "how good was he?", helped to keep would be challengers down.

For Ringo (and the rest of the Cowboys), the name of the game was protection rackets, intimidation, and straight up banditry. The display of skill(and ruthlessness) helped to ensure that he was feared and ideally would force people to capitulate.

So while the forshadowing mock duel in the saloon was in many ways a display of each their modis operandi, and ultimately showed Doc to be the "winner" as he disarmed what was becoming a tense situation, it also allowed Doc to instill the fear of God into Ringo, as the duel at the end of the movie so clearly indicated that Ringo was surprised and even off guard that Doc, and not Wyatt showed up.

Basically I think Ringo knew he had met his better at that saloon even if everyone else just saw the clown that Doc was presenting.

Cosmoline
July 13, 2009, 07:36 PM
Eventus stultorum magister

I always thought it was Iuventus stulturum magister, meaning youth is the teacher of fools, but it turns out it is Eventus stultuorum magister [est]

http://audiolatinproverbs.blogspot.com/2007/02/eventus-stultorum-magister-est.html

gimlet1/21
July 13, 2009, 08:35 PM
Wyatt , " I'll turn your head into a canoe." That would be one nasty canoe.

Straight Shooter
July 13, 2009, 10:08 PM
Thanks guys! Now I have to go dig out the DVD and watch it again! :D

raskolnikov_22
July 13, 2009, 10:11 PM
Val Kilmer and Michael Biehn were the reasons this movie didn't flop like Wyatt Earp :barf:

mgregg85
July 13, 2009, 10:58 PM
I've never understood why so many RKBA supporters love the story of the Earps. It seems to me like they are some of the most famous proponents of gun control in the 1800's.

When a group of people flouted their unjust laws they were promptly killed by the thugs in authority.

model of 1905
July 13, 2009, 11:25 PM
Well Val Kilmer is a New Mexico resident and has indicated a desire to run for governor.

I loved the movie tombstone but I have absolutely no desire to have a Hollyweird liberal as governor of my state.

If New Mexico elects him (which I say is highly probable) I'll be thinking Idaho and Montana aren't really that cold.

It has been bad enough with Bill Richardson.

lobo9er
July 13, 2009, 11:31 PM
"loving man"

highmountain78
July 13, 2009, 11:32 PM
Tombstone is a very entertaining movie with a couple stand out performances.

So long as we are on the subject of western movies, what was the significance of the "cross" on Russel Crow's, Ben Wade's gun in 3:10 to Yuma?

Hardtarget
July 14, 2009, 12:49 AM
Maybe that cross was a "come to Jesus" moment...when he pointed the gun at you. :D

I don't know...I've not seen the movie.

Mark

Georgia Gunner
July 14, 2009, 01:58 AM
I don't know what the cross meant but that last scene in 3:10 to yuma was one of the best of all time.

BHP FAN
July 14, 2009, 02:04 AM
Highmountain said:''So long as we are on the subject of western movies, what was the significance of the "cross" on Russel Crow's, Ben Wade's gun in 3:10 to Yuma? ''

maybe it was his cross to bear?

PT1911
July 14, 2009, 02:14 AM
wasnt it
"I'm your huckleberry"

and

"you're no DAISY... You're no daisy at all"?

Flame Red
July 14, 2009, 10:59 AM
I've never understood why so many RKBA supporters love the story of the Earps. It seems to me like they are some of the most famous proponents of gun control in the 1800's.

When a group of people flouted their unjust laws they were promptly killed by the thugs in authority.
+1000

1911Tuner
July 14, 2009, 11:36 AM
I've never understood why so many RKBA supporters love the story of the Earps. It seems to me like they are some of the most famous proponents of gun control in the 1800's.

While I agree in theory...the circumstances were a bit different in the cow towns, where liquor and gambling were "round the clock" realities. Mix likker and guns with people who generally "Jerked their smokewagons and went to work" to settle arguments over a hand of cards or a soiled dove...and you could literally have a gunfight every hour...just like the show at Ghost Town in Maggie Valley, NC...except the gunmen weren't actors and stunt men, and the ammunition was live. It could get out of hand pretty quickly and regularly did. Drunks are notoriously bad marksmen, and the danger of stray rounds finding innocent bystanders was a distinct possibility...not to mention property damage.

Couple that with the fact that a drunk cowpuncher was as likely to shoot a town marshall or a Sheriff merely for intervening in a heated discussion...and you can better understand their positions.

winston smith
July 14, 2009, 12:59 PM
The "Daisy" comment is easier. In the late 19th century "daisy" was a common slang term for "the best in it's class." So for "daisy" just substitute "the best" and you'll have it. It was a short-lived idiom and doesn't seem to be popular much after 1890.

As in "Its a Daisy!" -- how the air rifle got its name.

Found by Google:

Whilst questioning Moons, Charlie spots that Zeke is wearing Ben Wade's signature gun, the Hand of God, which can be identified by the symbol of Jesus impaled on the cross on the gun's handle. Sensing that this group has a history with Wade and the fact that Charlie isn't the kind of guy to politely ask for Wade's gun back, it is inevitable then that Charlie blows away the group, including Zeke with twin revolvers.

Also found by Google:

Russell Crowe wears the 4 3/4" Peacemaker Colt, referred to as, "The Hand of God", was made for Crowe by U.S. Fire Arms, and plays an important role in the plot.

Joe Demko
July 14, 2009, 01:08 PM
Couple that with the fact that a drunk cowpuncher was as likely to shoot a town marshall or a Sheriff merely for intervening in a heated discussion...and you can better understand their positions.

Everything I've read about the Earps (that was from any kind of reliable source) points towards them being more economic rivals with their enemies than towards them being heroic law n' order types. Wyatt Earp was savvy enough to polish his image in his lifetime and his woman really went to work on that after his death.
Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven" gives a better picture of the typical dynamic at work in the old west than does "Tombstone."
Sure I understand the Earps and their gun-grabbing ways. They figured those guns were bad for business...like the gambling, liquor sales, and (I suspect) prostitutes in which they were involved.

psyopspec
July 14, 2009, 04:46 PM
I've never understood why so many RKBA supporters love the story of the Earps. It seems to me like they are some of the most famous proponents of gun control in the 1800's.

I like the story of the Earps because I like a good story; NOT because I find said story to be true (it largely isn't) or because I have a feeling either way on the Earp family.

cottonmouth
July 15, 2009, 01:24 AM
"Crawfish the bet and drill that old Devil in the ass"? I got the crawfish part and I assume he is refering shooting the Devil.......... I hope that's what he meant! LOL

J.B.

Mr. Bojangles
July 15, 2009, 06:30 AM
I still like the movie:cool:

1911Tuner
July 15, 2009, 07:11 AM
Everything I've read about the Earps (that was from any kind of reliable source) points towards them being more economic rivals with their enemies than towards them being heroic law n' order types.

Yup. No saints, the Earp boys.

They figured those guns were bad for business...like the gambling, liquor sales, and (I suspect) prostitutes in which they were involved.

Yup again...but they were also charged with keepin' the peace and stayin' alive in the process. Performing their lawful duties meant that their other...er...interests would thrive for the reasons cited above. I suspect that many of the saloonkeepers and brothel operators slipped them a percentage of the take under the table for answering the call whenever there was a fracas in one of their establishments. The Earps were probably engaged in an early protection racket. "Pay me, or I'll take my sweet time gettin' here when some hoorah decides to shoot the place up."

Dimis
July 16, 2009, 12:38 AM
i still love that movie my favorite quote is still the para-phrased quote from Revelations

"Tell em Im comin... And hells comin with me!"

and Val Kilmer really did steal the show as Doc Holliday

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