[halfded]

Just went out and shot my first 5 reloads. 200 grain Missouri #4 over 5.8 grains of Trailboss. Everything went well, except for some vertical stringing, not sure if that's the rounds or me anticipating the mushroom cloud that never came (loads were really light actually).

I want to thank everyone that was overly patient with all of my inane FNG questions. You are all gentlemen and scholars of the shooting sports.

Gonna move on up to 6.0 grains and see what she'll do.

[Walkalong]

Congrats on firing your first reloads. Let us know how the 6.0 load shoots.

[NCsmitty]

Congratulations halfded, always be focused and do it the safe way.


NCsmitty

[Sport45]

Sounds like you done good. What cartridge, .45Colt?

[benzuncle]

Half, it's 10:29EST right now. You still smilin'? :D My smile didn't wear off 'til sometime in the middle of the night after I fired my first reloads. Congratulations! Glad you still have all your booger pickers.

[halfded]

Yup, shootin' 45 colt. My smile lasted all the way back through the woods, into the house and into the basement back to the press. Continued off and on through the evening as I read through some of the problems other first timers had posted here.

Although I did manage to spill half a charge of powder all over my lap AND crush the very first primer I tried to seat :what: but other than that, all went well. The case wasn't totally centered in the shellholder and the primer caught the edge of the pocket. Having never seated a primer I thought that was normal resistance. Pulled the case out of the press and saw the primer wasn't seated all the way and was crooked; then it fell out on the brick below. It had been crushed on one side, dropped, and still hadn't gone off! :eek: Lucky me, that probably would have turned me off of reloading. The second batch of 15 I made went a lot smoother. Got some 6.0 6.1 and 6.2 to try out today.

Thanks again everyone!

[halfded]

Tried out 6.0 through 6.4 in 0.1 increments. Looks like 6.2 is a winner. Gave me the best group out of the lot.

[Walkalong]

I don't want to diminish your excitement, but you need to test 6.2 again with several groups to prove it can repeat its self. As much as I shoot handguns, I can shoot a good group and a bad group back to back with a proven load. Not hard at all. I see folks post 3 or 4 targets (groups) and they say this load is the best because it is the best group. One group means little. I will shoot 2 to 4 loads back to back to back to get an idea, then shoot them all again to see if the same pattern emerges. If it does I retest the better looking loads, and then again. When it repeats its self two or three times in a row, I figure its good. Then I'll load a big lot and shoot casually over time to see how it does. That always finalizes it. I like to shoot pins at 35 to 40 yards in one of our pistol pits. It is always easy to hit them repeatedly with good loads if I am having at least a decent day shooting. Lesser loads will miss too much even on days I am really on.

Some days I leave the range with notes like "Load #XYZ tried to shoot, but I was shooting poorly. Test again" or "shot bad, need to recheck". Some days I am on enough to tell things right away. I may also write "very accurate, retest"

[halfded]

Should have been a little more specific in my test procedure. Shooting sitting on the ground supported from my knees; I'm not gonna drag a set of bags and all that out there with me. I loaded 5 5.8's, had vertical stringing. Made 5 each 6.0-6.2. The 6.0 had slight keyholing and the other 2 tightened up so 6.2 was the best of the 3. Walked back home ( I shoot in the woods about 1/4 mile from my house :neener:) and made up 10 6.2-6.4's. I did this in the thought that the groups would tighten as I went up. Again, the 6.2's did really well. The 6.3's opened the group up just a little but made the soot marks on the case a lot worse. 6.4, although the most fun with visible side blast and a little more "whump" sound, opened the group a little further with even more sooting of the casing. So I drew the conclusion that 6.2 was the best of my tests so far. Next time I'm gonna make 15 each 6.2 and 6.3 and give them a head to head comparison. Might do a couple more 6.4's just for fun :D. Would it be tempting fate to try a max. load this early in my ranks of the reloaders?

Can post pics of all the targets if anyone's interested.

[Walkalong]

You are definitely on the right track.

As far as the 6.3 sooting up the case worse than 6.2, I can only think the powder was oriented in the case differently because 6.3, and the increased pressure, should have stayed the same or improved on soot on the case.


During your next testing, set aside 6 loads of 6.2 or 6.3 Grs Trail Boss. After your accuracy testing try this. Shoot 3 rounds with the powder back, (tilt gun barrel straight up and slowly bring barrel down level) and three rounds with the powder forward. (point barrel down and slowly bring it back up level)

Compare the primers and amount of soot between them. Also note recoil and report when shooting them.

PM sent

[halfded]

Definitely give that a try next time I go out. Just struck a deal on the local gun trader for 175 2 and 3 times fired brass for $35 shipped. Got my reloading book in the mail finally, Modern Reloading Second Edition. That whole book for 6 or so pages! I'm sure I'll use more in the future though.

Got another question though: I was checking out the 45 colt charts and I saw a powder called Universal. The only thing I see when I search it online is Hodgdon's Universal Clays powder. Same thing? Gonna try either some of that, Clays, or Titegroup if I can find it. The Titegroup is supposed to fill up more of the case volume.

[Walkalong]

Yes, Universal is Universal Clays. When it first came out it was touted in G&A as the thing in .45 Colt. I have not tried it in .45 Colt, so I don't know.

[halfded]

Really now, a little uncharted territory maybe? ;) Gonna pick some up next time I head back toward civilization. Looks like it gives decent case fill too. Thanks for allowing the opportunity to pick your brain there, Walkalong.

[halfded]

Here's the pics of the targets I shot day before last. 200 grain LRNFP over trailboss powder, weight listed on target. 15 yards shooting sitting down braced on my knees. No wind, mid 80's F. Test process outlined above (post #9).
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt332/halfdedsphoto/0716090722.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt332/halfdedsphoto/0716090722a.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt332/halfdedsphoto/0716090722b.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt332/halfdedsphoto/0716090723.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt332/halfdedsphoto/0716090724.jpg

Let me know if the links don't work. I figured that's be less hassle than trying to post all 5 pictures directly. BTW, any flyers are probably my fault. Still getting used to the Vaquero and I have a tendency to pull down slightly as I pull the trigger. At around $7 a box I've got plenty of time to work on that!

Any input?

[ArchAngelCD]

Hey halfded, well done Sir, stick with it. As for the 6.2gr charge doing the best for you and your revolver, that's what happens. What shoots well for you might not shoot well for someone else. That's why it's hard to tell someone what the "best load" for a certain caliber will be. The velocity might be a little low for a "working round" but no doubt it's fine as a target-plinking load.

BTW, I'm not sure if anyone mentioned 45 Colt brass can be a little touchy to resize. It's a little thinner than many straight walled pistol rounds so if you go too fast you might (and I mean might) crush the sidewall of the case if it's not in the die correctly. You probably won't have a problem, I just wanted to make you aware of the possibility.

Keep going and congrats on being successful with your first reloads. (I told you to stop worrying and just go shoot them)

[halfded]

Thank you, thank you.. I wouldn't be where I was without all the little people! Just kidding, but thanks a lot guys. Can't say that enough.

Took some more 6.2's out along with some 6.3's. I kept the powder position in mind like walkalong said. Pointed the gun straight down for loading and before each shot. Don't know if it changed much, but I figured the consistency couldn't hurt. 6.2 still edges out the competition with a little tighter group.

No worries for me about not lining up the case. After almost touching that primer off on my first try, I ride the case all the way up and all the way down onto the primer every time with my finger. Keeps it pressed against the back of the shellholder. Weird they crush so easily, seemed pretty thick to me. Probably applies to people that are able to load more than 20 rounds an hour (I'm weighing every charge still, can't get that stupid powder measure to throw 100% accurate weight every time)!

Feel a little silly now worrying so much. To err on the side of caution is to keep one's digits though, I suppose. Thinking of trying Universal next maybe.

[Walkalong]

The Bullseye shooters used to point their muzzle up every time to get the powder back against the primer for consistency. Some powders do OK, but some do very poorly when forward against the bullet. It can be a problem in the field.

I tried one light load in .357 cases that would propel a Berrys 125 Gr TrFP aver 900 FPS with the powder forward, but stick one in the barrel powder forward. (SR-4756)

[halfded]

Fortunately I still have some 6.2's left, gonna have to try them with the powder back and see what happens.

Which powder would provide better case fill, Universal Clays or the Trailboss I'm using now? The Modern Reloading book I got doesn't have listings for Trailboss :cuss:

[Hey_Allen]

I haven't used either of the two, but from what I've read, Trailboss was intended to take up more space in larger cartridges, so it's likely a bulkier powder on an equal weight basis.

[halfded]

Just did some math and, with equal charge weights, the Trailboss comes in at 1.39cc at 6.4 grains. Universal is listed in modern reloading 2nd edition as .70cc for the same charge weight. Useful case capacity listed as 1.93cc.

So does that mean that the trailboss, providing more case fill, will be more consistent and/or accurate? Gonna mostly be plinking so it doesn't really matter that much, but I, like many others, make a whole other sport of shooting groups.

And of course, it starts to rain on my way home so I'm stuck inside.

[1858]

so it's likely a bulkier powder on an equal weight basis.

or put another way ... it (Trail Boss) is less dense. :)

You'll be hard pressed to find a better powder than Trail Boss for your application and there's no need to point the revolver up, down, left or right to position the powder. Trail Boss does a good job of filling up most of the case volume with 200gr and 250gr bullets.

:)

[Walkalong]

There is nothing anywhere close to being as bulky (filling the case) as Trail Boss. That was one of its design features.

I just weighed out 6.2 Grs of Trail Boss and with a Ranier 250 Gr SWC it fills at least 97% plus of the empty space.

Since it is filling 97% or better of the empty space in the case, then 1858 is absolutely right about not worrying about powder position.

I have not run any position sensitivity tests with Trail Boss, so I can't comment on how it would do there if indeed there was still 10% or more empty space. Non issue here anyway, assuming it is filling that much of the case with your bullet.

I tried 6.8 Grs Trail Boss with an X-Treme 225 Gr TrFP for an Avg 730 FPS from a 3.5" barreled FA 97. The cases were scorched pretty badly with a lot of blow by that crudded up the chambers.

[ArchAngelCD]

For target shooting with the .45 Colt there's probably no powder better than Trail Boss since it was specifically designed to fill the large cases of the calibers originally developed for Black Powder. (like the .45 Colt, .44 Special, .38 Special and others) BUT, for working loads or woods carry that powder won't deliver higher velocities associated with "working loads." Powders like W231, HS-6, Universal, Unique and several will do that better.

[halfded]

Probably gonna keep the trail boss as my target powder and see if I can get some Universal for copper and a little higher velocity lead. Figure that'll be the cure for whatever ails me whilst walking the woods. There's been a large dog wandering on/near my property lately (carry off whole bags of trash big), hoping not to have a run in with him. What would be better for such an application; the typical JHP setup or a nice heavy 250-300 grain LFN? Again, thinking about penetration on large [dog type] animals. I have heard that speer's "flying ashtray" is a good option for violent expansion at around 900fps. I have a box of factory made that leaves the barrel at a listed 1000fps, just haven't done any expansion testing with it. They certainly look impressive though with that massive pothole of a hollow!

I've been loading .452" bullets so far, but have been seeing .451" to .454" listed for 45 colt on midway and other places, what's the deal? I thought .452" was the correct diameter?

And could anyone fill me in on the term "working load"?

[Walkalong]

or a nice heavy 250-300 grain LFN?which will put a 1/2" hole all the way through him. Not a bad thing. Heavy lead pills kill things quite dead. Universal Clays or Unique will fill the bill here quite nicely. Unique has been doing it in .45 Colt for decades.

Old .45 Colts used .454, but all modern guns, as far as I know, use .451, so .452 with lead would be correct for the bore, assuming it is .451. You really want to match your lead bullets to the cylinder throats, and hopefully the throats are .001 to .002 over bore diameter. Just a nice slip fit for the throats and .001 to .002 over bore diameter is close to perfect for lead bullets in revolvers. If your throats are oversized, it is best to fit the bullet as close to them as possible. If they are undersized, you will need to ream them out to .001 to .002 over bore diameter.

[1858]

There's been a large dog wandering on/near my property lately (carry off whole bags of trash big), hoping not to have a run in with him. What would be better for such an application;

Some dog food!! :mad: Maybe his owner dumped him due to the recession. Big dogs eat a lot of food and are expensive to take care of ... I know, I have two Rottweilers but I'd sell my car (followed by my wife) before I gave them up. Give this dog a chance ... if he hasn't shown any aggression towards you then why not help him out ... maybe he's down on his luck. :(

[halfded]

I was asking about jacketed bullets, should have said that. If memory serves me jacketed bullets need to be a little smaller, so I would want to use .451" I guess? Would .452" work?

As far as the dog is concerned, I don't trust, much less like, large dogs for good reason. I keep my dog fed and under my control; other people should do the same. He's not going to get any unwarranted attention from me as long as I don't get any aggression out of him. I refuse to take care of another person's animal.

[ArchAngelCD]

I would suggest a 255gr SWC bullet for dog problems. The sharp shoulder on the semi-wadcutter does all the work and will cut almost anything it passes through. For a dog or similar soft skin animal that's probably the best bullet. Also, with that bullet you won't need to push it much past 900 fps to get the job done.