How much Recoil on 556(223) vs 762(308)


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Kangspec
July 14, 2009, 12:46 AM
I don't have either size if gun now. However, in the future i will have one.

I heard/saw ar15 / .223 have little recoils that you can shoot all long. how about .308? how much kick harder than .223?

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Paradiddle
July 14, 2009, 12:51 AM
I have both calibers and without the AR is the softest shooting rifle I own - even a little softer then my M1 Carbine. You can shoot all day and twice on Sunday. I've had a M1A and it kicks like a Garand - not even close to the AR.

Kangspec
July 14, 2009, 01:00 AM
i know 308 kicks much harder.but how bad is it? still able to shoot all day?

jpwilly
July 14, 2009, 01:02 AM
223 is basically a little love tap. The 308 is a like a quick jab. Of course a lot depends on the rifle being used. My M1 Garand in 308 is very comfortable to shoot.

Fumbler
July 14, 2009, 01:08 AM
It really depends on the guns they're shot in.

An Ar-15 in 223 recoils about like a single shot 410 with the heaviest 410 loads, maybe a tiny bit more.

My Tikka T3 Lite in 308 recoils like a 12ga pump with a standard 1oz slug.
308 in a heavier gas operated semiauto recoils about like bird shot in a 12ga pump.
Mil surplus 7.62NATO ammo recoils quite a bit softer than commercial 308Win.

You can definately shoot a lot more 223 than 308. Heck, I don't think anyone could get tired of shooting a 223.

P. Plainsman
July 14, 2009, 02:29 AM
.308 recoil in a military-style autoloading rifle like a FAL is noticeable, but not too bad. If you're a reasonably healthy adult man you should be able to go through 100 rounds without problem, which, given the cost and availability of good .308/7.62x51 ammo these days, is probably all you'll want to shoot.

Now, .308 in a trim, sporting bolt-action rifle will kick you harder.

Also, back on the autoloader side, I hear the HK91/ G3 type rifles do kick harder than M1As or FALs. I don't have any trigger time on HKs that would let me confirm this.

As for .223, like was said, you can shoot it all day long.

Hammerhead6814
July 14, 2009, 02:33 AM
Are we allowed to bring in rifles other than the AR-15 into this conversation? If so then I say the .308 can be just as light on the recoil as the .223. My Savage .308 for example hits so little you'll swear your shooting a .22lr.

Put the .223 in the wrong rifle and you'll wonder where all the kick came from.

Gaiudo
July 14, 2009, 02:34 AM
I can shoot two matches of highpower without getting phased with .308, so that's 176 rounds with sighters. That's using an M1a, so not as "heavy" of recoil as a light bolt gun. I have never found .308 to be anywhere near prohibitive, and I think you could easily shoot it all day.

RoostRider
July 14, 2009, 04:25 AM
OooOoOoo..... that question is so open ended.....

What guns?
How tall are you?
How much do you weigh?
Do you use good technique, or are you sloppy?

I have an AR-15 (.223), and I can say that even the short skinny 11 year old kid down the block can shoot it with no recoil issues... he does, however, have a hard time holing it up.... if that tells you anything about the recoil of that gun....

On the other hand, I have a short, light bolt action .308 that puts a pretty good whalop into your shoulder... It sent my son (5' 8" 150#) reeling in pain when he held it up as haphazzard as he holds the AR-15 and lit off a round down range.... twice (once the shoulder is bruised, you can give it up for the day)..... lol.... a great learning experience for him, and a good laugh for all the fellas he was talking up his skills too just before....

A recoil operated semi-auto .308 won't have nearly the kick as a bolt action (all other things being equal)

A heavy gun won't have as much felt recoil (all other things being equal)

A bigger guy could take it with more ease (all other things being equal)

A guy with better technique will do better dealing with recoil (all other things being equal)

The .308 will kick considerably harder than the .223 (all other things being equal)

So, it's kind of more of an equation rather than a 'rule'.....

AgentAdam
July 14, 2009, 05:05 AM
My Carbon-15 M4 kicks pretty good but it only weighs 4.5lb where as my Rem700 SPS Tactical,7.5lbs naked, with a 20" heavy-contour tactical-style barrel is literally like a .22lr with all the weight and the soft recoil pad on the Hogue stock.

Art Eatman
July 14, 2009, 11:38 AM
I wouldn't want to shoot a bolt-action .308 all day long if the rifle had a steel butt plate, but with a proper recoil pad and a proper hold it's no big deal.

Whether AR or bolt-action, a .223 is trivial in the recoil department. Not even worth thinking about. Maybe a third as much as a .308, approximately.

jackdanson
July 14, 2009, 01:27 PM
I wouldn't want to shoot a bolt-action .308 all day long if the rifle had a steel butt plate, but with a proper recoil pad and a proper hold it's no big deal.

Whether AR or bolt-action, a .223 is trivial in the recoil department. Not even worth thinking about. Maybe a third as much as a .308, approximately.

Same here, I don't like shooting a light .308 (think tikka) more than 20 or so rounds. After that it becomes a little uncomfortable... not killer, but not comfy. My FNAR, on the other hand, I can shoot all day.

Recoil in .223 is practically nothing. Depends what you are doing, if you just want to punch paper at under 300 yards I would take a .223. For longer ranges or big game hunting I'd go with the .308.

How tall are you?
How much do you weigh?

IMHO This really doesn't matter. The problem with recoil AFAIK is developing a flinch, not pushing you around. I only weigh 140 and I've never had a problem.

Arkel23
July 14, 2009, 01:41 PM
223 is basically a little love tap. Lol.

Reid73
July 14, 2009, 01:58 PM
As Art said, the .223 / 5.56 has essentially no felt recoil.

.308 / 7.62 does have some recoil, but nothing most people can't handle (especially in a semi-auto). And as P. Plainsman correctly points out, with the cost of ammunition being what it is, your shoulder will likely outlast your wallet.

6.5x39
July 14, 2009, 03:21 PM
To be pedantic: the 5.56x45 NATO round develops 1,177–1,708 J (868 - 1,260 ft-lbs) of energy at the muzzle, the 7.62x51 NATO round develops 3,275 J (2,416 ft-lbs) of energy. Factor in the weight of the firearm in question to offset that, but the .308 has a lot more recoil than a .223.

rcmodel
July 14, 2009, 03:28 PM
Suffice it to say neither one is going to hurt you.

About fifty gazillion GI's learned to shoot with a 30-06, .308, or .223 over the last 100 years.
And some of them shot them a lot, but none of them were crippled or maimed by it.

rc

LTR shooter
July 14, 2009, 03:51 PM
I know 308 kicks much harder.But how bad is it? Still able to shoot all day?

Having owned both in bolt action Remington 700s with 26" heavy barrels - the .308 undoubtedly recoils far more.

As far as shooting "all day"? If all day means a few hundred rounds I would surely go with the .223 . I find the .223 much more pleasing to shoot for extended periods. Nearly anyone can comfortably shoot a .223.

The .223 is even relatively mild in my Super 14 Contender. Where firing the .308 in something like an Encore can get you attention quickly!

dagger dog
July 14, 2009, 03:59 PM
Kangspec,

You can shoot the .223 in bolt action or auto all day, the .308 you can shoot until you get tired and forget your form and then it will teach you that it is not a .223.

Shooting from a bench with front and rear rests I find I can go about 50 rounds of medium power reloads shooting 155 -168 gr bullets before the recoil starts to wear me down, the first 20 or so I can shoot full recoil with out holding onto the gun just letting it slide across the baby powdered leather bags. The next 20-25 I tend to start feeling the recoil as my form starts to collapse and I start taking a death grip on and climbing up the stock. It is not painfull untill you get cut across the bridge of the nose by the ocular bell of the scope (red eye brow) or you take one on the boney part of your shoulder (I've done both). The recoil is a lot milder than most 12 gauge pump guns shooting 2 2/4" high brass duck and goose loads or heavy 2 3/4" magnum 00 buck or slugs.

The .308 is a great round and is well worth the learning curve and occasional slap on the face, it is a stepping stone up from the .223

krs
July 14, 2009, 04:19 PM
rcmodel:"About fifty gazillion GI's learned to shoot with a 30-06, .308, or .223 over the last 100 years.
And some of them shot them a lot, but none of them were crippled or maimed by it."

Yeah rc, but a bunch of 'em FELT LIKE they'd been crippled or maimed....:)

RP88
July 14, 2009, 04:22 PM
.223 is a quick, but soft, tap. Nothing hard. Still enough to get a slight reaction on you, but nothing that is going to hurt even after shooting a thousand rounds in a day.

SammyIamToday
July 14, 2009, 04:37 PM
I think platform makes a big difference.

I have two DPMS 308's (SASS and AP4) and neither of them recoil very hard at all. More than the AR-15, but nothing compared to a .308 bolt rifle or a M1A.

Noticeable, but not something that gets to me over a range session.

RoostRider
July 14, 2009, 04:44 PM
How tall are you?
How much do you weigh?

IMHO This really doesn't matter. The problem with recoil AFAIK is developing a flinch, not pushing you around. I only weigh 140 and I've never had a problem.

Oh, I wasn't talking about it pushing you around (that is a function of poor form).... I was talking about the ability to deal with the blow.... bigger guys, well, they have more 'padding' shall we say... :)

Truly, barrel length even weighs into the picture.... as the short barreled rifles put off considerably more blast in your face in .308 than a long barrel does (amount of blast and distance from your face play in)..... which can either be worked around/conditioned for, or it will affect shots after (flinching, jerking trigger, etc)

It is clear to me that some people commenting here (no one in particular) have never shot a lightweight bolt action .308.... they kick plenty more than you would ever guess coming from a heavy semi-auto .308.... it's a world of difference....

I have pretty good form, but I still have no desire to lite up more than a box of .308 from my bolt gun in any one sitting.... no one else I know is real keen on it either... lol...

So yeah.... it really is an equation, and everything from what "shoot all day" means, to the gun, to your stature, your demeanor, and your technique all play into it....

I would suggest trying some of each before making an investment.... if you can.... if not, the advice here is worth checking up on.....

I know plenty of guys who have NO desire to shoot certain guns and LOVE other ones of the same caliber...

Kangspec
July 14, 2009, 08:54 PM
Thanks for the good reply's.

i forgot to mention that .308/7.62x51 as semi-auto weapon. like AR10, FNFAL.

lions
July 14, 2009, 09:11 PM
A bigger guy could take it with more ease...

In my experience it has been the other way around.

A big guy does indeed take it, he takes it all in the shoulder.
A smaller guy will be pushed back further, flexing his body and helping to disperse the recoil impulse and making it take place over a slightly longer time.

Think about hitting a punching bag on the ground versus hitting one suspended from the ceiling.

Matrix187
July 14, 2009, 09:38 PM
The AR10 probably recoils less than a FAL. I never have shot either, but the ar15/ar10 design lessens recoil.

Art Eatman
July 14, 2009, 10:58 PM
It won't give the force in pounds or the impulse on your shoulder, but for comparative recoil between two cartridges in equal-weight rifles: Add the weight of the powder to the weight of the bullet, for each cartridge. Those are the masses that will react against the rifle.

So a .223 with, say, a 60-grain bullet and about 20 to 25 grains of powder totals maybe 80 to 85 grains. The .308 is gonna be 150 + about 45 = 195 grains. So, 80 divided by 195 is the decimal of the percent of .308 recoil that you're gonna get from a .223. Or divide 195 by 80 and that's how many times more the recoil is of a .308 over a .223.

To be more accurate, you oughta multiply each weight times its muzzle velocity. But given that these two are shot from so many different lengths of barrels and with so many different loadings, I deliberately left out that part. And, a helluva lot of compared cartridges are within about ten percent for muzzle velocity, anyway.

The next part of the deal is to compare the weights of the rifles. That's easy enough...

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