"No Guns Allowed Sign" in Lexington, KY.


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Knotthead
July 14, 2009, 10:20 PM
Today I saw a sign on the door of the Liquor Barn in Lexington. This was not the usual "No Guns Allowed" sign that Kentucky businesses post to express their desire that patrons be unarmed, but something more. As most of you who live in this state know, such signs do not carry the weight of law, and all they can do is ask you to leave. This sign specifically referenced KRS 244.125 (http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/244-00/125.PDF), which I did not recognize, as the bulk of related Kentucky law is in three other chapters. When I got home and looked it up, I found that this section was in reference to establishments which sold alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises. I do not remember seeing that they had opened a bar on the premises since the last time I had visited, and I don't believe this is legal anyway.

Tomorrow I will try to find contact information for the management and see if I can get an explanation. In the meantime, has anyone else in the Lexington or Louisville area noticed these signs, and do you have any information to offer?

edited to add link to referenced statute

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Hk91-762mm
July 14, 2009, 10:38 PM
I plan to move to KY --I hope there are not many of these antigunners there,,,
I for one would go out of my way to make sure they know Ill shop someplace else!!!

INMY01TA
July 14, 2009, 10:40 PM
I live in Md. I have a "No guns allowed" sign on the front door exiting my house. :D :(

fireman 9731
July 14, 2009, 11:44 PM
I plan to move to KY --I hope there are not many of these antigunners there

Avoid Lexington/Louisville and you will be fine ;)

DasFriek
July 14, 2009, 11:48 PM
Avoid Lexington/Louisville and you will be fine
WHA...? But Buds gun shop is in Lexington! and i want to visit them.
Ill just make it my only stop.
I have family in WV and hope to someday make it a slightly out of the way adventure.

wrs840
July 15, 2009, 12:05 AM
Sounds to me like the store owner is simply only mistaken about which particular statute backs-up his/her desire to keep guns out.

Here in NC, the applicable law allows owners of establishments not covered by a hard-prohibition to keep guns off their premises with a "conspicuous posting". A friend of mine has a pretty impressive success-record of getting business and store owners to rethink that PC position and take the signs down, mostly by convincing them they're taking on an increased legal liability for the protection of their patrons by posting such a prohibition. He even pulled this off at the local K-mart by talking to the manager. Success all depends on approach and salesmanship, I'd guess.

Les

fireman 9731
July 15, 2009, 12:34 AM
But Buds gun shop is in Lexington!
It sure is, and its a great place, but you have to realize that for every gun in that shop there are 1,000 liberal hippie lunatics in Lexington that wouldn't enjoy anything more than to melt all those guns down into solar panels and windmills. There is a reason that Lexington is often called the "Boulder Colorado of the East"

Aaron Baker
July 15, 2009, 02:12 AM
Bud's is not in Lexington. It's in Paris, which isn't even a "suburb" of Lexington. It's a good 20 minute drive from Lexington at least.

Just keeping the record straight.

Also, it sounds like Liquor Barn needs a better attorney to do their legal research for them before they post their signs.

Forklift352
July 15, 2009, 02:20 AM
Go in and buy a fifth of whisky...pop it open and take a big swig...(with out the gun)
And when they say you cant drink their tell them about the sign and the law
it pertains to.Id do it but I stopped drinking 9yrs.ago:p

DasFriek
July 15, 2009, 03:01 AM
Bud's is not in Lexington. It's in Paris, which isn't even a "suburb" of Lexington. It's a good 20 minute drive from Lexington at least.
Just keeping the record straight.

You sure?
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_43/products_id/13704
if you hover over the 2 places listed that have the gun in stock it says its 2 differant retail shops.One in Paris and one in Lex.
But i cant find an address in Paris,but is listed as Lex.
Im now kinda lost on this one.

TheElyrian
July 15, 2009, 05:58 AM
Unless I'm mistaken (which I just might be) the Bud's in Lexington is for LE and the actual consumer shop is in Paris. I believe you can buy from them online and have them transferred to the one in Lexington but don't think you can just walk in there and start buying things.

I could be wrong though. I live in Lexington and was thinking of driving over to the one in Paris soon.

THE DARK KNIGHT
July 15, 2009, 06:02 AM
I love these threads.

It's funny watching all the people who love to say that someone has a right to do what they want on their property bitch and moan about someone doing what they want on their property.

Grab a tissue, take a deep breath. Either lock the gun in the car and go buy your booze, or find a different liqour store.

Honestly, if you're paranoid about being shot and killed on a quick beer run then you should consider moving somewhere safer.

Davek1977
July 15, 2009, 06:44 AM
Honestly, if you're paranoid about being shot and killed on a quick beer run then you should consider moving somewhere safer.


By that logic, I shouldn't EVER carry. I don't THINK I'll be robbed going to Wal-mart, going camping, going to check the mail etc. However, theres a funny thing about suprises though....they most often happen WHEN YOU AREN'T EXPECTING THEM. I doubt MANY permit holders ARE EXPECTING to need their gun, but I for one believe in the line "better safe than sorry". Besides, haven't you noticed corner shops and liquor stores attract a LOT of robberies and hold-ups? Have you ever noticed the unsavory element that often hangs out around these locations? I guess I just don't comprehend what it is you're getting at. I carry because I believe its my right, because I care about my safety, and because I NEVER KNOW WHAT THE NEXT 60 SECONDS MAY BRING. If I get shot buying a 6 pack, I'm going to feel pretty dumb that that was the one time I actually NEEDED my firearm, if I'm lucky enough to live through the experience. In today's world, I like to be pprepared to defend myself if need be. If you are willing to forego that right, by all means do so, but no need to suggest someone else is overly paranoid because they don't see things the same way.

THE DARK KNIGHT
July 15, 2009, 07:09 AM
By that logic, I shouldn't EVER carry. I don't THINK I'll be robbed going to Wal-mart, going camping, going to check the mail etc. However, theres a funny thing about suprises though....they most often happen WHEN YOU AREN'T EXPECTING THEM. I doubt MANY permit holders ARE EXPECTING to need their gun, but I for one believe in the line "better safe than sorry". Besides, haven't you noticed corner shops and liquor stores attract a LOT of robberies and hold-ups? Have you ever noticed the unsavory element that often hangs out around these locations? I guess I just don't comprehend what it is you're getting at. I carry because I believe its my right, because I care about my safety, and because I NEVER KNOW WHAT THE NEXT 60 SECONDS MAY BRING. If I get shot buying a 6 pack, I'm going to feel pretty dumb that that was the one time I actually NEEDED my firearm, if I'm lucky enough to live through the experience. In today's world, I like to be pprepared to defend myself if need be. If you are willing to forego that right, by all means do so, but no need to suggest someone else is overly paranoid because they don't see things the same way.

I'm not saying it isn't OUR right to carry, that you shouldn't carry, or that you need to put yourself in danger.

My point is that if you can't stand to let go of your .40 caliber security blanket for 3 minutes you either are somewhere you don't belong (in a practical sense, not a legal sense. ie I have every legal right to walk down Fordham road in the Bronx but that wouldn't be very bright of me as a white guy) or you probably have security and/or masculinity issues IMO.

There's no other liquor stores in the area? He can't make a tacti-cool commando covert speed beer run, perhaps ducking and rolling around the shelves while in constant radio communication with a lookout posted near the door?

Davek1977
July 15, 2009, 07:24 AM
I don't believe a desire to be armed in public or in a business often targeted for robberies (as many liquor stores are) reflects security or masculinity issues. I think it reflects a desire for personal safety, which is something most of us have I would like to believe. Granted, the odds of needing to be armed are slim to none if you're buying beer at 9Am on a tuesday morning...but that same store may be an entirely different situation @ midnight on saturday night. However, you honestly never know, and you can be shot during a hold up just as easily on that tueday morning. Like I said, thats the funny part about suprises....they tend to catch poeple off guard and happen when people are least suspecting them. Personally, its a non-issue IMO....they don't want me carrying there, I won't carry there....but I won't spend money there either.

John Parker
July 15, 2009, 08:16 AM
Why would you shop at a business that doesn't want you there with your gun? Vote with your feet and spend your money at another store.

Nate1778
July 15, 2009, 08:17 AM
I believe they have that sign up at our Liquor Barns as well. For some reason I remember seeing it on a Kroger liquor store as well. To clarify, liquor barns are not "hold up" liquor stores, usually they are in higher end parts of town and its basically a mall of liquor.

I hadn't realized that Lex had gone that liberal, but being a college town, I guess you get a lot of indoctrination. Louisville has its parts of town where the libs dominate, but I would say for the most part we still embrace the 2nd. Believe it or not the one place I find to be the most liberal and non gun friendly would be, of coarse, where the government resides, in Frankfort. Can't walk into a gun store with a gun.

Like others stated I would find somewhere else to shop or go in anyway.

ChaoSS
July 15, 2009, 08:24 AM
I wouldn't go so far as to suggest insecurity issues for someone who wants to have their gun with them.

However, I agree, if someone says no guns on their property, then that should be respected. I don't know all about the laws that require a sign to be posted exactly as proscribed by the law, but my feeling is that if someone posts a conspicuous sign that says no guns, (or no pets, or no clothing in gang colors, or whatever) and you violate that, you should be seen as a trespasser in the eyes of the law.

Knotthead
July 15, 2009, 08:51 AM
To clarify a few things, this was a new sign that I had not seen in previous trips, though it had been several months since the last one. It was printed on paper and taped to the door, not a commercially printed one, as if it had been hastily done. Also, the Liquor Barn is not your typical seedy liquor store, it is a large warehouse type with selections of wines, spirits, and beers that you simply don't see outside of Lexington and Louisville in Kentucky. It also has a large selection of breads, cheeses, coffees, etc. It's kind of like Disneyland for adults who like to indulge. They offer regular wine and bourbon tastings as well, which may be a legitimate excuse for the sign. Simply going to another liquor store is not an attractive option. If necessary, I will simply return to my car and leave my gun, as I did yesterday.

As for the discussion on Bud's Gun Shop, they have operated out of Paris, KY, a few miles northeast of Lexington for years, but they recently opened a new location in Lexington. I don't know if it is a LE only shop, as suggested above, but I sincerely doubt it.

As has also been suggested, Lexington and Louisville are politically very liberal compared to the rest of the state, but "No Guns" signs seem to be very rare in Lex., and I suspect Louisville is the same, though their mayor is a member of Bloomberg's outfit.

edited to add: By the way, if you are visiting from out of state and are a bourbon fan, you will find selections at the Liquor Barn that you've never seen at your stores back home. Don't miss it.

nelson133
July 15, 2009, 09:05 AM
I don't periodically cancel insurance policies because I might not need them, I don't disconnect alarm systems at random, I don't move the fire extinguishers out of the house every so often either. If I knew when or where bad people might take an interest in me, I would avoid those places and times. I carry because I don't know when something might happen.
When the argument is weak, the tactic is to stoop to personal insult and ridicule, doesn't mean there is any validity to the argument. But then, if I was Batman, maybe I wouldn't worry about carrying a gun either.

charliewood
July 15, 2009, 11:03 AM
The liquor barn in Louisville, of preston and fern valley has no such sign. I go where i want regardless ,unless its against the law . post office, police station, courts ect.

bnkrazy
July 15, 2009, 11:39 AM
If the sign is new, ask the manager why it was recently added, and let him know you'll be shopping elsewhere as long as it remains up.

We had a situation in town where a local restaurant was robbed and the daytime manager put up a "No Guns" sign. This was a popular restaurant for OpenCarry.org dinners, etc., so it was noticed quickly.

Once word got out that the place was posted, calls and emails to the management quickly turned the situation around. The sign was put up as a knee-jerk reaction to the robbery, and once they had time (two days) to think about how little it would do to deter crime, the sign came down.

As a show of support, we just had an OC dinner there and 110 people showed up to let them know we appreciate their support of the 2A.

Since the sign is already up, you have nothing to lose by asking for it to be removed.

And, whether the sign comes down or stays up, go and add the business as positive or negative on the friend or foe site in my sig line. /shameless plug

mcdonl
July 15, 2009, 12:50 PM
1,000 liberal hippie lunatics in Lexington that wouldn't enjoy anything more than to melt all those guns down into solar panels and windmills.

But this will kill birds!

Knotthead
July 15, 2009, 02:14 PM
I have just emailed the following to the store in question:

Yesterday, while I was entering your Hamburg store, I was confronted by a new sign prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons. While private businesses are free to do so, this one referenced KRS 244.145, which applies to establishments which sell alcohol by the drink for consumption on the premises, not to package stores. I, and several others I am in contact with, would like to know why the Liquor Barn feels this statute is applicable to your establishment.

Will post any response I get.

Kindrox
July 15, 2009, 04:30 PM
My point is that if you can't stand to let go of your .40 caliber security blanket for 3 minutes you either are somewhere you don't belong (in a practical sense, not a legal sense. ie I have every legal right to walk down Fordham road in the Bronx but that wouldn't be very bright of me as a white guy) or you probably have security and/or masculinity issues IMO.

How many minutes is it safe to go about unarmed?

KBintheSLC
July 15, 2009, 04:38 PM
Honestly, if you're paranoid about being shot and killed on a quick beer run then you should consider moving somewhere safer.

Dark Knight,

I wish we all had a little crystal ball like you do so we could predict exactly when and where potential dangers exist. Unfortunately, I have no such device. Actually, a liquor store with a big "no guns" sign on the door looks like a prime candidate for a robbery to me.

It's funny watching all the people who love to say that someone has a right to do what they want on their property bitch and moan about someone doing what they want on their property.

There is one big difference... the private liquor store is publicly accessible. My home is not publicly accessible. You are mixing apples an hand grenades.

Honestly, your sarcastic comments lack any resemblance of intellectual fortitude. If you are here to attack and annoy other patrons... mission accomplished. If you are trying to tactfully argue your opposing views, try choosing your words with a bit more digression.

You only have a small hand full of posts here, and already you are well on your way to winning the THR "favorite poster" contest (I am sure that with your infinitely brilliant sense of sarcasm you ought to effortlessly pick up the scent of it here).

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
July 15, 2009, 04:45 PM
Dark Knight, i really hope you are kidding, i had a altercation when i was driving from my house to drop off my niece 5 minutes away which ended up with the corrections officer being locked up after he pointed his 1911 at my car and family.

i was thinking last minute if i should bring my snubbie or not thinking to my self that its just a few minutes through the GOOD part of town and back and i shouldn't need it. well last second i grabbed it and thank god i did because i would have been helpless to defend my family otherwise.

so really don't try to push your ideas or thoughts on others and say oh you are too paranoid when you really, clearly, have no idea.

for a good read on my situation check here.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=429837

TheDriver
July 15, 2009, 05:30 PM
The Buds in Lex. is a retail store. Tho they do sell "LE only" guns. For whatever reason.

Ky Larry
July 15, 2009, 06:54 PM
There are 2 Bud's Gun Shops. One is in Paris, Ky. The other is in Lexinton. Here are the addresses:

Bud's Gun Shop
4115 Lexington Rd.
Paris Ky
(859)987-8261


Bud's Police Supply
1123 Winchester Rd.
Lexington
Ky. 40505
(859)368-0417


P.S. Where are the 1000 Liberal Hippie Lunatics? I've lived here for 15 years and haven't seen them. Just the normal mix of freaks, geeks, whack-o's, space cadets, hicks, posers, and everyday people you find in any other college town of 250,000 people.

THE DARK KNIGHT
July 15, 2009, 06:59 PM
I'm sorry, it is not my intention to offend anyone or start trouble. I guess I just worded my argument wrong, I'm sorry I came off insultive.

fireman 9731
July 15, 2009, 08:25 PM
P.S. Where are the 1000 Liberal Hippie Lunatics?

The sprawling suburbs.

SCKimberFan
July 15, 2009, 10:29 PM
P.S. Where are the 1000 Liberal Hippie Lunatics?...you find in any other college town of 250,000 people.

Typically, they are the ones teaching at the universities. :D

Knotthead
July 16, 2009, 12:35 PM
Received this reply to my email today:

Hello,

The sign that you noticed at Hamburg yesterday is not a new sign, it was just moved from the lower part of the door to the middle of the door. (I think this happened when the windows were being cleaned) The reason we have this sign posted is because we have a license to sell alcohol by the drink for consumption on our premises.

Sincerely,


Donna Gilmer
Asst. General Manager
Liquor Barns, Lexington

If this is true, this makes them bar, which is off limits to firearms. Anyone seen these at their other stores?

BMF500
July 16, 2009, 12:49 PM
Don't ask, don't tell....score your booze elsewhere....

cpaspr
July 16, 2009, 12:54 PM
Having a license to sell by the drink, and being set up to sell by the drink, are not the same thing. If they don't actually use that license, does it still apply?

Is it the same license for bars as for basic retail stores that don't dispense? If so, then her explanation appears to be lame.

kentucky_smith
July 16, 2009, 12:55 PM
I'd like to try this out but need a DD.

JImbothefiveth
July 16, 2009, 01:00 PM
I plan to move to KY --I hope there are not many of these antigunners there,,, This is Lexington. Lexington is one of the few liberal areas in kentucky and is one of the few places you will find fanatical anti-gunners. If you stick to suburban Kentucky, (away from major cities) some people might not approve of guns, hover they most likely won't be the people who take it seriously. I believe that an above-average number of people in Kentucky neighborhoods away from the major cities at least knew how to shoot. And others will be pro-gun. Rural Kentucky is probably the most pro-gun, however, it's often very poor.

Aslo, tornadoes there are insane, so buy a house with a basement. And whatever you do, avoid the "white blossom" neighborhood.

Gaiudo
July 16, 2009, 02:33 PM
Withdrawn, as per the retraction above.

Nate1778
July 16, 2009, 02:46 PM
I plan to move to KY --I hope there are not many of these antigunners there,,,




Look at it this way, your moving closer to the largest machine gun shoot on the planet. Knob Creek is quite a sight, and you will like it if you have never been before. It is the holy grail for gun owners, not to many "anti" gun protesters make this one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vm3-BQRJU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIZpCLvXsoM&feature=PlayList&p=9D9E17F26209E3BA&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=73

Knotthead
July 16, 2009, 03:07 PM
Here is the text of the referenced statute:

244.125 Prohibition against possession of loaded firearm in room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, no person shall be in possession of a loaded, as defined in KRS 237.060, firearm while actually within the room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink of a building on premises licensed to sell distilled spirits and wine at retail by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises pursuant to KRS Chapter 243.
(2) This section shall not apply to the owner manager, or employee of licensed premises, law enforcement officers, or special local peace officers commissioned pursuant to KRS 61.360.
(3) This section shall not apply to a bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty (50) persons and which receives at least fifty percent (50%) of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food.
(4) Nothing in this section shall be construed as permitting the carrying of a concealed deadly weapon in violation of KRS 527.020.
(5) Any firearm possessed in violation of this section shall be subject to forfeiture and shall be disposed of pursuant to KRS 237.090.

This is the statute that applies to bars and is not the toothless one where all they can do is ask you to leave, so ignoring it is not an option for me. I suspect they have their "by the drink" license due to their frequent wine and bourbon tastings. As for going somewhere else, I usually do, but my occasional trips to Lexington are an opportunity to stop here and get things unavailable anywhere else. While I can find bourbons like Woodford Reserve, Knob Creek, and even Four Roses Single Barrel locally, things like Rowan's Creek and Basil Haydn are not available. And you simply cannot buy a decent beer in Eastern Kentucky.

Ky Larry
July 16, 2009, 03:33 PM
Yes, I live in the "Spawling Suburbs" of Lexington. My neighbor on one side is a retired Marine Gunnery Sgt. The neighbor on the other side is a plumber. The woman accross the street is a police officer. All are shooters. Guess I just don't know a screaming liberal hippie when I see one.:scrutiny:
Lexington is a very conservitive, generally gun-friendly town. Yes we do have a large university and a small, private, very elite univesity. The local newspaper is a left wing rag suitable for lining your bird cage. However, most of the citizens here are your average, hardworking Americans.

christcorp
July 16, 2009, 04:41 PM
Actually, a liquor store with a big "no guns" sign on the door looks like a prime candidate for a robbery to me.

KB; no business does; or should; rely on private citizens to protect their business or their property. Just because there's a "No Firearm" sign on the door of a liquor store, doesn't mean that the business owner doesn't have a weapon for such situations. Again, private citizens are not expected to protect a private business. And if you were in a liquor store and it was held up; and you personally did not have a gun pointed to you and your life was in immediate danger; you'd be hard pressed to say you pulled a gun and fired.

There is one big difference... the private liquor store is publicly accessible. My home is not publicly accessible. You are mixing apples an hand grenades.

No apples and oranges here. There is NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever. There is no reason at all in the world that requires you to enter that business establishment other than by CHOICE. You don't have to be there. Same if it was a home based business selling candles. Same as if you were invited to a friend's house for a BBQ. If the home based candle shop or friend said they didn't want you carrying a gun, you should comply or CHOOSE not to go into their house/business. If the liquor store has a sign, then you should comply or CHOOSE not go into their business. This is VERY SIMPLE. To disagree is NOT a matter of difference of opinion. It's a matter of rationalizing that because you have a RIGHT to carry a gun, that somehow you have a RIGHT to go into someone's BUSINESS. YOU DON'T!!!!! You have absolutely NO RIGHT to go into someone's business property. You have the privilege to go into their business. The ONLY right you retain on that property, is the RIGHT to the 4th amendment of protection from unreasonable search or seizure. In other words, you have the RIGHT to leave and NOT be detained. And even this constitutional right would be a stretch, because the bill of rights are limitations on the government. If a person held you against your will, that would be a civil crime. Any other "RIGHT" that you "THINK" you have on another person's private property, does not exist. It is a privilege and nothing more. And do not confuse this with "Consumer Rights" or other PC phrases like "Patient's Bill of Rights" which are totally different set of laws. Those are legal rights towards "Products and Services" and has nothing to do with civil/constitutional rights.

THE DARK KNIGHT
July 16, 2009, 05:09 PM
No apples and oranges here. There is NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever. There is no reason at all in the world that requires you to enter that business establishment other than by CHOICE. You don't have to be there. Same if it was a home based business selling candles. Same as if you were invited to a friend's house for a BBQ. If the home based candle shop or friend said they didn't want you carrying a gun, you should comply or CHOOSE not to go into their house/business. If the liquor store has a sign, then you should comply or CHOOSE not go into their business. This is VERY SIMPLE. To disagree is NOT a matter of difference of opinion. It's a matter of rationalizing that because you have a RIGHT to carry a gun, that somehow you have a RIGHT to go into someone's BUSINESS. YOU DON'T!!!!! You have absolutely NO RIGHT to go into someone's business property. You have the privilege to go into their business. The ONLY right you retain on that property, is the RIGHT to the 4th amendment of protection from unreasonable search or seizure. In other words, you have the RIGHT to leave and NOT be detained. And even this constitutional right would be a stretch, because the bill of rights are limitations on the government. If a person held you against your will, that would be a civil crime. Any other "RIGHT" that you "THINK" you have on another person's private property, does not exist. It is a privilege and nothing more. And do not confuse this with "Consumer Rights" or other PC phrases like "Patient's Bill of Rights" which are totally different set of laws. Those are legal rights towards "Products and Services" and has nothing to do with civil/constitutional rights.

Well said.

Tackleberry1
July 16, 2009, 05:41 PM
I live in Louisville, and the only place I've been to that has sign is Dick's sporting goods on Hurstbourne Ln. Naturally I ignored it an no one was the wiser (CCW).Other than that, no problems in Louisville, apparently you don't live here Fireman.

Knotthead
July 16, 2009, 06:21 PM
I live in Louisville, and the only place I've been to that has sign is Dick's sporting goods on Hurstbourne Ln.

I was in both of the Lexington stores the other day, and I didn't see one on either, though I could have easily missed it. I was also in two bookstores, Sears, a mall, Sportsman's Warehouse, Best Buy, a doctor's office, and two restaurants which served alcohol, and the only sign I noticed was the one at the Liquor Barn. In their defense, I want to point out that this was not the owner's option posting, but that they apparently fall under the restrictions applied to bars due to their wine and bourbon tastings. Therefore, I will not be excoriating them over this incident.

Tackleberry1
July 16, 2009, 08:07 PM
I was in both of the Lexington stores the other day, and I didn't see one on either, though I could have easily missed it. I was also in two bookstores, Sears, a mall, Sportsman's Warehouse, Best Buy, a doctor's office, and two restaurants which served alcohol, and the only sign I noticed was the one at the Liquor Barn. In their defense, I want to point out that this was not the owner's option posting, but that they apparently fall under the restrictions applied to bars due to their wine and bourbon tastings. Therefore, I will not be excoriating them over this incident

I should probably clarify, what the sign at Dick's actually says is something to the effect that you have to "check in" your firearm to the manager or the front desk. I don't know about you guys but I'm not handing over my weapons to ANYONE!:D

Nate1778
July 16, 2009, 08:33 PM
I want to point out that this was not the owner's option posting, but that they apparently fall under the restrictions applied to bars due to their wine and bourbon tastings.




That explains the one at Kroger liquor store, seams every time I go in there they want me to take a shot, or sample this or that. I am not a huge fan of the drinking and driving, not that this would be the case, but it would be my luck I would get pulled over in the parking lot with sample bourbon on my breath. Now, get me home and its a different matter...........

Ruggles
July 16, 2009, 08:34 PM
"It's funny watching all the people who love to say that someone has a right to do what they want on their property bitch and moan about someone doing what they want on their property."

+1

"There is one big difference... the private liquor store is publicly accessible. My home is not publicly accessible. You are mixing apples an hand grenades. "

It is still private property thus the owners should be able to do as he please IMO.

Knotthead
July 16, 2009, 09:10 PM
I should probably clarify, what the sign at Dick's actually says is something to the effect that you have to "check in" your firearm to the manager or the front desk. I don't know about you guys but I'm not handing over my weapons to ANYONE!

I've seen these signs at some gun stores and I'm sure they only refer to guns you are bringing in for possible trade/service/etc., not your carry. They want to verify that they are unloaded before they are handled in the store.

.455_Hunter
July 16, 2009, 09:13 PM
It is still private property thus the owners should be able to do as he please IMO.

How about blanket prohibitions for other "undesirable" members of society? African-Americans? Hispanics? The Disabled? The Obese? Veterans?

If your facility is "open to the public", it should be "open to the public", unless a specific individual is causing harm or disturbance. CCW holders generally don't cause harm or disturbance. :)

christcorp
July 16, 2009, 11:14 PM
How about blanket prohibitions for other "undesirable" members of society? African-Americans? Hispanics? The Disabled? The Obese? Veterans?

A lot of people trying to justify being able to do what they please in a business establishment, LOVE TO QUOTE this example. And the answer has been given 2,363,674 times. But that's OK; not everyone reads all the threads on all the forums. But to clarify for you: There are "LEGAL" requirements for anti-discrimination that ALL BUSINESS owners MUST comply with when operating their business. Basically; in the reader's digest version; ANY POLICY/RULE/etc... MUST APPLY TO ALL PATRONS. Your example of race, weight, etc... would be a policy or rule that DOES NOT apply to all patrons. And therefor, it is discriminatory. In other words, it has to be a policy or rule that the patron has control over. A person doesn't have control over their sex, race, national origin, sexuality, etc... Also, the same would apply to prices, availability, etc.... The merchant can't charge more to some people and less to others.

The only exception to this, that has been upheld numerous times in courts all over the country, are rules/policies/etc.... that are set due to safety or state/federal laws that have precedence. I.e. An amusement park can deny someone too short from a particular ride because of the safety features built into the ride that are a physical restraint, and can not be adjusted or adapted because of safety. Certain OPEN-AIR restaurants where the food is prepared in the presence of the patrons can restrict seeing eye dogs and such. Some states don't allow under 21 to enter certain portions of an establishment that serves alcohol. You get the idea.

But the prohibition of blacks, handicapped, over-weight, veterans, etc... are already covered by law. The business owner must make policies that apply to everyone. Nice try though. :)

Ruggles
July 16, 2009, 11:21 PM
Your train of thought would lead to a business owner not being allowed to enforce dress codes, rather someone under the influence could enter, if kids could enter without adult supervision etc. Your examples for the most part are all protected under federal and local laws against discrimination. CCW is not, nor should it be.

If you do not like the stance of the owner then do business elsewhere, I would. I should have the right as a owner to set standards and conditions on my private property. Yelping about "fairness" like a hurt liberal is just sad, I refuse to sink to their level in matters such as these.

The issue has already been resolved and as it turned out the owner was following the law.

.455_Hunter
July 17, 2009, 01:36 AM
CCW is not, nor should it be.

I disagree. When CCW is a specifically government sanctioned activity, like here in Colorado (with permit), your carry should be lawful anywhere the public is allowed access.

Your train of thought would lead to a business owner not being allowed to enforce dress codes, rather someone under the influence could enter, if kids could enter without adult supervision etc.

The government is not in the business of giving official permits for going barefoot in McDonalds, wearing obscene t-shirts in the mall, or skateboarding through the business park.

and as it turned out the owner was following the law

Maybe the law should be changed. For most states, their current CCW laws are first attempts, and definitely could stand some modifications. Many of these restrictions are in place because that was the only way the bill could make through state legislatures or get past governor's desks. Since the streets have not been running with blood, like we were all told by the antis would happen, carry restrictions are being eased. I believe that AZ and TN are recent examples of this occurring.

christcorp
July 17, 2009, 02:35 AM
Tell you what 455; you can set whatever rules you want in your business; if you have one. And I will set whatever rules I want in my business. Personally, I would never have such as rule as no guns. But how dare you tell me that I HAVE TO let you do whatever you want in my business. It's bad enough the government tells us many things we can and can't do, but now you as the customer are "DEMANDING RIGHTS". How arrogant. I'm surprised that you don't DEMAND that a restaurant provide you with certain dishes even if they AREN'T on the menu. So, as a private citizen, you are entitled to whatever rights you can name. But as a private citizen, who happens to own a business, I have no rights in how I operate my business. Oh yea, that's some great freedoms and rights we have.

This goes beyond guns and 2nd amendment rights. This goes to the CORE RIGHTS (More IMPORTANT than the Bill of Rights). This goes to our inalienable rights of "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". So you as a consumer are allowed to pursue happiness; but the business owner who undoubtedly works harder and puts more hours in than you can even possibly imagine, is NOT ALLOWED to pursue his happiness. He has to worry instead about your happiness on his property. That's pure B.S.

ChaoSS
July 17, 2009, 06:23 AM
You know, it's interesting that a few people have brought up the idea of keeping people out because of race/religion/nationality/whatever.

Why shouldn't a store owner be permitted to limit access to his or her store like that? Yes, I know the courts have said they can't, but forget that for a minute. If I sell my old computer, I have the right to sell to whomever I see fit, and if that's only Japanese men who are bald on one side of their heads, so be it. If I choose to make a living selling used computers, that should not mean that I am required to sell to anyone and everyone. If a store owner wants to put a sign on his door saying "no blacks", why shouldn't he be permitted to do so? I would think that if society truly disapproves of such an action, he would have little to no business. This seem to me a truer model of a free economy than the government telling us who we have to let into our stores.

Ruggles
July 17, 2009, 08:50 AM
"Quote:
CCW is not, nor should it be.
I disagree. When CCW is a specifically government sanctioned activity, like here in Colorado (with permit), your carry should be lawful anywhere the public is allowed access.

Quote:
Your train of thought would lead to a business owner not being allowed to enforce dress codes, rather someone under the influence could enter, if kids could enter without adult supervision etc.
The government is not in the business of giving official permits for going barefoot in McDonalds, wearing obscene t-shirts in the mall, or skateboarding through the business park.

Quote:
and as it turned out the owner was following the law
Maybe the law should be changed. For most states, their current CCW laws are first attempts, and definitely could stand some modifications. Many of these restrictions are in place because that was the only way the bill could make through state legislatures or get past governor's desks. Since the streets have not been running with blood, like we were all told by the antis would happen, carry restrictions are being eased. I believe that AZ and TN are recent examples of this occurring."

:scrutiny:

As you seem to want to argue over everything I will leave this to someone who cares to do so with you.

Knotthead
July 17, 2009, 10:47 AM
The issue has already been resolved and as it turned out the owner was following the law.

Hey! Someone was actually paying attention. How did that happen?

christcorp
July 17, 2009, 11:11 AM
ChaoSS; actually, you have brought up a point that has been brought up before. Even in the courts. As a private individuals, you are totally allowed to discriminate against anyone you want to. Now without getting too deep into law and definitions, there is a difference between "Prejudice" (A belief and internal feeling towards something); "Discrimination" (Acting differently towards something or someone because of prejudice). And then there's "Assault" (The physical interaction towards something or someone with the intent of harming; either physically, mentally, or emotionally).

ALL citizens are FREE to be prejudice. There is nothing wrong or against the law for this. We are ALL prejudice about something. Maybe it's people, maybe certain animals, maybe it's against spinach. We ALL have our prejudices. And we ALL discriminate to an extent. My grandfather wouldn't allow a Chevrolet in the family because of a bad work experience. You might discriminate against a drug user. Maybe it is because of race. And then there's assault. When you verbally or physically confront something or someone, you are assaulting them. That should almost never be tolerated.

As a culture, we have to develop certain social norms. Forget law and the legal system. All societies develop social norms. These have existed in every single society since Adam and Eve; or whoever you believe was the beginning. These social norms change constantly. In our society, it use to be totally acceptable to treat blacks, women, indians, immigrants, etc... differently than we do now. It was "Socially Acceptable". Currently; the "Social Norm" in our country is that you can't discriminate against a person based on traits that the person has no control over. I.e. They can't change their race, color, sex, orientation, age, disabilities, etc... I'm not talking LEGAL. I'm talking "SOCIALLY". The social norm is that if a person can't control something about themselves that you don't like; it's not their fault.

So, we are all prejudice and that can NEVER CHANGE. It's not possible. We will all discriminate. That too can not change. But it is only socially acceptable as long as it's not discrimination against attributes and traits that a person has no control over. And assault; both verbally and physically; is socially unacceptable. This is not to say there aren't some that don't follow the social norm. There are. Just that as a consensus; the social norm is what is generally followed.

krs
July 17, 2009, 12:01 PM
So, what's the weather like in Lexington, Kentucky?

I like it that the law has my name prefixed to every statute and think, therefore, that it must be where I belong. At long last.........home.

.455_Hunter
July 17, 2009, 12:51 PM
No personnel offense intended Ruggles! :)

I was just having a discussion and trying back-up/clarify my POV...

You are free to agree or disagree.

chris in va
July 17, 2009, 01:10 PM
I've had a couple similar instances here in Louisville.

A large movie theater has a "no guns" decal on the lower door window quoting a KRS dealing with revocation of permit if the officer demands you hand it over and you refuse. :confused:

Now here's the one with teeth.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6882/imgp4796.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/imgp4796.jpg/)
My friend took an adult education course at a small building in Shepherdsville. It was completely separate from any college or school campus, and I had to do research to be sure it was legal and enforceable.

Erik M
July 17, 2009, 08:56 PM
Typically, they are the ones teaching at the universities. :D
Correct. I was still on campus at Morehead state during the 04 election, It was a bad idea to advertize being conservative. My younger bro said that he experienced the same on the 08 election at EKU.

I diddnt notice the sign at Liquor Barn. Ill keep my eyes open the next time i'm on a sauce run.

che_70b
July 17, 2009, 10:40 PM
Kentucky is just about the most gun friendly state in the country. Around some of the universities there is some liberal stupidity but of those folks either wise up to how good we have it here or leave for somewhere more suitable to them. I have never noticed a strong anti gun sentiment in Lexington. Even with some of the college students who are pretty liberal there is not usually a strong anti gun sentiment.

fireman 9731
July 18, 2009, 02:29 AM
It was a bad idea to advertise being conservative. My younger bro said that he experienced the same on the 08 election at EKU.

What???

IMO EKU is a fairly politically conservative campus... sure there are liberals, but It was never a "bad idea" to bring up politics to somebody. The law enforcement academy at EKU has done a lot for guns on campus. The steady report of pop pop pop all day from the police range across campus, along with several plain clothes law enforcement instructors open carrying, I know for a fact has changed several student's opinions about guns.

Faculty on the other hand.... well thats another story.

amishjosh
July 18, 2009, 12:35 PM
So, what's the weather like in Lexington, Kentucky?



It's kentucky, summers are hazy, hot and humid, high in the mid-90s, 30% chance of late afternoon thunderstorms, winters are down into the singles and teens, with a slight chance of snow/sleet/hail. In summer we get tornados and in fall we get windstorms.

krs
July 18, 2009, 02:56 PM
amishjosh:"It's kentucky, summers are hazy, hot and humid, high in the mid-90s, 30% chance of late afternoon thunderstorms, winters are down into the singles and teens, with a slight chance of snow/sleet/hail. In summer we get tornados and in fall we get windstorms".

Thanks. So it's colder than Alabama in winter but otherwise about the same if those late afternoon thunderstorms include rain in sheets that you could set your watch to, and during that rain it progresses slowly along the ground so that if you really tried you could walk along in front of it and stay almost completely dry. (I spent about 9 months in Alabama - Feb 2 thru to Sept. 24, 1967)

Jed Carter
July 20, 2009, 05:35 AM
Buds in Paris KY has new owners, same name. Budsgunshop.com and Buds Police supply in Lexington KY are under the same ownership. Both are great places to shop for firearms.

che_70b
September 8, 2009, 09:12 PM
I'm che 70's dad. I went to Morehead State in the late 1960's. Our dorm janitor was a divorced man in his 40's who bunked in a nook in the basement to keep from having to commute from his farm everyday. He let me store my rifle or shotgun with him during the fall when I wanted to go squirrel hunting during the week. I'd just get my gun and walk out, down the campus and out of twon to the woods, or if someone was driving, to the car.

One day I saw an older man on the Boulevard near the Baird Music Building. He was watching two or three pigeons feeding on the lawn. He had a scoped Remington 225 Fieldmaster .22 slung over his shoulder. I stopped to chat. He said he had the OK to shoot pigeons (they were nuisances) and he was waiting for them to fly to the top of the building so he would have a safe shot.

How things have changed for the worse!

SammyIamToday
September 9, 2009, 12:50 AM
Lexington is very gun friendly to add to what others have said (not the University of Kentucky however. :( ). For being a city anyway. Compared to the rural areas it can probably seem not very gun friendly though, so I can see that angle.


I've seen that sign at Liquor Barn too. Most of the near campus liquor stores have good/decent bourbon selections and don't sell by the drink. Those should be okay. At least I've never seen those signs at any of them.

Overall to the guy that's considering KY as a place of residence, I think the Brady Bunch rated us tied at 49th for most evil gun places in America last year or the year before, so that should tell you everything you need to know. And now that Kathy Stein isn't head of the committee in the House that receives gun related bills anymore, I expect to see a Campus Carry brought through and actually voted on. Which would be nice. UK receives state funds and should be treated like the rest of the state.

9MMare
September 9, 2009, 04:55 AM
We had a situation in town where a local restaurant was robbed and the daytime manager put up a "No Guns" sign.

LOL

Seriously?

Sure, because the criminals always obey the rules.


Glad they took it down, but their initial reaction just struck me as ridiculous.

9MMare
September 9, 2009, 05:17 AM
How about blanket prohibitions for other "undesirable" members of society? African-Americans? Hispanics? The Disabled? The Obese? Veterans?

If your facility is "open to the public", it should be "open to the public", unless a specific individual is causing harm or disturbance. CCW holders generally don't cause harm or disturbance. :)

Certain groups fall into 'protected classes,' like women, most minorities, disabled, gays, etc.'

Employers and most business owners are not allowed to discriminate against anyone in a protected class.

Gun carriers, the obese, and veterans dont fit into protected classes (yet).


A private business does have the right to decide who enters their property. I support this right.

I also support politely educating them on the positive side of gun ownership and the ability to shop elsewhere and support more gun-friendly businesses when possible.

ThrottleJockey72
September 9, 2009, 05:44 AM
It seems like KY is no different from any other state. Texas doesn't admit Dallas is part of the state, MN hates Minneapolis, IL hates Chicago, etc.....It looks like the liberal hippie freaks feel more secure in large numbers and rely upon the kindness of others for their welfare checks. Just keep out of major metropolitan areas as a general rule.

Fryerpower
September 9, 2009, 09:19 AM
It sure is, and its a great place, but you have to realize that for every gun in that shop there are 1,000 liberal hippie lunatics in Lexington that wouldn't enjoy anything more than to melt all those guns down into solar panels and windmills. There is a reason that Lexington is often called the "Boulder Colorado of the East"

Hey! Not all solar panel owners are hippies! (I know, you did not say that...)

I have five solar hot water panels that help heat my house in the winter and a nice selection of personal, CCW, and hunting firearms.

-Jim

Pilot
September 9, 2009, 09:38 AM
I lived in Lexington for a few years until recently and don't remember the sign at Liquor Barn on either Richmond Road or the one off of Harrodsburg Road.

Bud's opened a retail store recently on Winchester Road in Lexington which will sell to private citizens but it is marketed more towards LE. Paris is only a 20 minute drive from Lex and has more stock, plus an indoor range if you want to shoot.

Kentucky is VERY gun friendly. As someone else said, just look at their Brady ranking. For us a low Brady ranking is very good!

eatont9999
September 9, 2009, 10:09 AM
I think that sign is there to scare people into coming in naked. I carry into the packie every time I go. I must be confused, though, no one ever robs a packie...right? It has to be one of the "safest" places in town... I never see any nut jobs outside loitering or pan handling...

If the law says you can carry there, do so. Just don't go up to the store owner and tell him you have a gun. Most people don't take too well to that anyway.

I know they don't up here, but are there still drive-thru package stores around?

Lakeshore
September 9, 2009, 02:59 PM
Not familiar with the law in KY but where I live you just bring in your piece (concealed) as usual. If detected, the proprietor who posted the "no guns allowed" sign can request that you leave, in which case you leave. If you don't leave the premises after being asked to do so then, and only then, can the prop make a trespass case.

Erik M
September 9, 2009, 05:50 PM
I must be confused, though, no one ever robs a packie...right? It has to be one of the "safest" places in town... I never see any nut jobs outside loitering or pan handling...

I hope the sacrazm of your post is eluding me. While location may be the most important factor, a package store in a 'bad' part of town is one of the worst possible places you could be unarmed.

eatont9999
September 9, 2009, 06:30 PM
Erik,

You are right. I meant sarcasm. I am just going off what I have seen at a large number of package stores. I usually do not return to the scary ones, but some times you don't expect it. Some times I just move on to the next store if one looks really bad.

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