will a 9mm stop a mountain lion?


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Skillet
July 15, 2009, 11:43 AM
so i go hunting deer in an area with alot of cats(mountain lions, cougars, pumas) and i use my cz 75b as my sidearm for up there, which i hope we all know, shoots at 9mm. my standard ammo right now (it's the only stuff i can find) is blazer brass 115 grain fmj. and i was wondering if that would stop a cat in a self defense situation. if not, what would? 125 grains? hollow point?
or should i just keep with what i have?
by the way, for those who know, i hunt in unit 40 Idaho by reynolds creek area with waypoints of 43deg 08' 45.23"N by 116deg 52' 06.41"W
in that general area.
look it up on google earth

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maskedman504
July 15, 2009, 11:48 AM
Thread summary:

- yes it would!

- no it wouldn't!

- it might, but I would want something bigger if a charging lion was going to eat my face!

- it's all about shot placement!

------------------------------------------------------------

Every response will most likely be a deviation of one of the above. Personally, I would be packing a .357 or .44 mag. As per your sig line, you may think about carrying your PT1911 with some 230 grain JHP.

doc2rn
July 15, 2009, 11:54 AM
You can kill a Mt Lion with a .22 yup you tree it with dogs shoot it in the lung and wait for it to fall from the tree.

wnycollector
July 15, 2009, 12:00 PM
If I was carrying a CZ-75 as my woods gun I would load it with either doubletaps 147gr +P FMJ-FP or their 147gr +P gold dots. here are the links to the ammo (I think its avaliable also!)
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_37&products_id=121&osCsid=9a1a0b1b3236dc2f0897bd3ea5aafee4
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_37&products_id=268&osCsid=9a1a0b1b3236dc2f0897bd3ea5aafee4

The PT1911 loaded with these would work well also http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=156&osCsid=9a1a0b1b3236dc2f0897bd3ea5aafee4

jhco
July 15, 2009, 12:14 PM
Don't know for sure where I'm at they call em panthers and they are endagered.
A 9mm would proably do the job but good shot placment would be key, however if one shot doesn't do the trick keep shooting till it croacks.

oneounceload
July 15, 2009, 12:14 PM
The 9 will do fine - I have friends who tree them with dogs and use a 38. Of course, if you're hunting, use your rifle

okespe04
July 15, 2009, 12:24 PM
A 9mm might take a Mountain Lion or at least scare it off.

danweasel
July 15, 2009, 12:28 PM
Yeah it would. But, people rarely see a mountain lion before it attacks them. They are really sneaky!

Loyalist Dave
July 15, 2009, 12:31 PM
I have heard of a polar bear being killed with a .22 LR when the victim inserted the muzzle of the rifle into the bear's maw, and fired upwards through the upper pallet, and into the bear's brain. So, yes if you inserted the 9mm handgun muzzle into the ML's mouth, and fired, you'd probably kill it or scare it off. Would you want to get that close?

LD

Skillet
July 15, 2009, 12:32 PM
that's the problem, if a cat jumped at me (usually from the side or from behind) and a had time to react, i could react quicker with a pistol rather than a savage 110 .243, it is almost impossible to wheel a rifle around fast enough if the situation arises. and where i'm at, they call them cats, and they are everywhere, but you don't know that they are everywhere.
for instance-
we passed some guys that were cat hunting up where we hunt deer. they told us a bone-chilling story from a while back in 1997.
they shot 2 deer, and strung em up in a tree so they could dress and skin them, and took a group picture of thier accomplishment (now remember, they used film) and went inside the campers to eat and get some rest so they could let the carcass (gutted already of course) freeze overnight and they could do skinning the next day. when they woke up, they noticed that one deer was on the ground and had two hind legs ripped off of it. they knew it had to be some sort of animal, but they weren't quite sure. so they skinned the animals and took them both home to see what they could salvage.
everything went fine and they soon forgot about it.
until the film got developed. they looked through the pictures, and found the group picture with the two deer hanging from the tree. and they looked even further up into the tree.
there was a big cat, looking down on all of them, like it was about to pounce, with it's tail curled to the left like it was swinging it back and forth (had motion blur) which means, it was very irritated. they did not have a clue, because the cat stayed perfectly still except for the tail.
makes hair raise up from your spine.

and that is why i want to carry a sidearm up there this year.

rcmodel
July 15, 2009, 12:36 PM
My personal preference for a handgun in cat country would be a big-bore revolver loaded with JHP.

It's hard to clear a jam, or even get off a shot at muzzle contact range with a semi-auto while a cat is gnawing on one arm.

rc

ArmedBear
July 15, 2009, 12:39 PM
Wearing a t-shirt from that general vicinity right now...

Much as I like the things, a CZ 75 is an awfully heavy trail carry gun, to shoot 9mm.

I think my .44 weighs about the same, and I have a .357 that comes in at a pound less.

What about your 1911?

shooterfromtexas
July 15, 2009, 12:49 PM
rather use a 12ga shotgun just to be safe.

Skillet
July 15, 2009, 12:57 PM
i'm not concerned with wieght, i will be loaded down as it is, and when on as a hip or on the chest holster it will be no problem. what i have got is my 3 layers, underarmor, shirt, sweatshirt, and outside jacket surplus military jacket, i carry some extra 9mm ammo (other clip) and some extra rifle ammo (.243) i also carry a pair of binocs, and have some steel toed boots, since i won't be on a trail all the time, because we use a four wheeler to get around more, (miles and miles and miles of terrain that would be impossible to cover at speed on foot) it is not much of a weight problem. and, i am an indurance runner so i can take alot before i get weighed down to much
1911 is gonna be carried by my dad.

ArmedBear
July 15, 2009, 01:14 PM
In that case...

If he's going to carry the .45, then I'd get some hot 9mm +P and call it good.:) 147 grain bullets, not much expansion. From what I understand (never had to kill one) a cat's muscle is dense, and your greatest challenge is to get through it. 9mm should be able to do that just fine.

WRT weight, it's the unbalanced weight on my hips that matters more to me than a pound overall. With a chest holster, on an ATV, etc., that's not an issue.

Steel toed boots, though? Hell, might as well put some dried peas in 'em too! Doing penance? (Or are they ATV boots?)

Good hunting!

I'll be in unit 40 for antelope.

TurboFC3S
July 15, 2009, 01:21 PM
Thread summary:

- yes it would!

- no it wouldn't!

- it might, but I would want something bigger if a charging lion was going to eat my face!

- it's all about shot placement!

Love it! Mod should have closed the thread there ...

doubs43
July 15, 2009, 01:49 PM
You can kill a Mt Lion with a .22 yup you tree it with dogs shoot it in the lung and wait for it to fall from the tree.

My father once told me about an article written in the 1930's by a professional hunter and trapper that was printed in one of the gun magazines..... possibly the American Rifleman. This man claimed that his sidearm was a Colt Woodsman and that he'd killed many Mountain Lions with it after they'd been treed by his dogs. He'd once tried the .38 Super Colt pistol but didn't like the weight or the relative inaccuracy so he returned to the Woodsman.

A charging cat would be a different story and I'd want a 12 gauge shotgun to stop it.

BikerRN
July 15, 2009, 02:01 PM
If it works on bi-pedal aggressors it will work on a lion.

9mm will work, but there are rounds I like better. .357 Magnum is my preferred caliber when I'm in cat country, as it gives a little more oomph if you have to deal with an attacking lion.

Lions are thin skinned and easy to kill. I'd use what I use on the street for lions. For me that would be a 115 Grain +P+ JHP in 9mm. For the .357 Magnum it would be a 125 Grain SJHP by Remington.

Take care, stay safe and have fun.

BikerRN

Matrix187
July 15, 2009, 03:15 PM
Yes it will do the job fine. People have used .22 LR to kill lions before. No, I dont have a source but it's been done in the past on a few rare occasions. However, they are ferocious fighters and those cats can have a lot of lives. You would want to keep shooting.

BlayGlock
July 15, 2009, 03:20 PM
I have a cousin in Alaska who hunts bears with a .22, true story. 9 will do fine.

John Parker
July 15, 2009, 06:40 PM
You can kill a Mt Lion with a .22 yup you tree it with dogs shoot it in the lung and wait for it to fall from the tree.

Similarly, the .22 is a great gun to murder someone with, but not a very good self defense weapon. A cat treed by dogs isn't charging you. Your shot can be made patiently after consideration and careful aim. It's quite different when one suddenly attacks.

DeepSouth
July 15, 2009, 06:50 PM
Yeah it would. But, people rarely see a mountain lion before it attacks them. They are really sneaky!

That's what I was thinking.

oneounceload
July 15, 2009, 06:56 PM
If you're hunting, you should have your rifle in your hands; how are you going to put that down, reach your pistol, draw and get on target faster than just using the rifle?

Frog48
July 15, 2009, 07:04 PM
Thread summary:

- yes it would!

- no it wouldn't!

- it might, but I would want something bigger if a charging lion was going to eat my face!

- it's all about shot placement!

You forgot "its better than a stick". :D

jocko
July 15, 2009, 07:04 PM
back in the early 80's my friend from Utah killed the WORLD RECORD bOONE AND cROCKETT BLACK BEAR WITH A RUGER 22 MAGNUM.

No doubt you can kill a mt lion with a 22. Its all about placement..

IdahoLT1
July 15, 2009, 07:58 PM
like others said, you can kill a cougar with a 9mm, but you have to ask yourself how many shots will it take? 1? 2? 5? 8? You might only get 1 or 2 shots landed suring a scuffle.

Like you know, when out and about in the woods(other than tracking/hunting them) mountain lions wont let you see them unless they want to be seen. If a person does get attacked, it is very quick and very, very unexpected. They, like most predators, attack weak prey or when prey seems the weakest or most vulnerable. A guy was recently attacked by a mountain lion near Moscow, Idaho. He was attacked when he was bending over gathering firewood. He actually fought it off with a knife. http://www.idahostatesman.com/531/story/833563.html?storylink=omni_popular

thats the thing with mountain lions. Unless they are rabid, they will usually back down when their attack is met with agression. Personally, i would go with a more powerful caliber. But what you have is better than shaking a stick. I would 147gr +p ammo if you do use a 9mm. Your CZ will handle the extra pressure.

Mr.510
July 15, 2009, 08:07 PM
First, for people that may not know the Cougar concolor is know by different names in different areas: Mountain Lion, Cougar, Puma, Florida Panther, Panther, Catamount, etc.

Sure, a 9mm will stop a cougar. Even if you shoot it in the thigh with a .22 it's going to die.... eventually. The question is how quickly do you want to stop it? You aren't going cat hunting. Your concern is that a cat might be people hunting. If it's stalking you, you will be damned lucky if you know there is a cat in the area before it's knocked you down and is trying to rip your spinal cord out the back of your neck. :what: In this instance a rifle or shotgun is nearly useless. Likely it will be on the ground and well out of reach by the time you figure out what's happening. All cats are ambush predators by nature. Never forget this.

I live in a forest choked with heavy brush with some of the biggest cougars known to exist. I've seen a large one in my yard several times. I've talked to the local game wardens about cougar many times. They can carry whatever they want and all carry .45s and .308 rifles/carbines. Guess what I carry? A .45 with a .308 carbine as close as practical. The warden assigned to my immediate area has killed a couple charging/attacking cougars with his .45. He says cougars are thin skinned with low body fat and similar weight to people so whatever works good on humans will work good on cats.

If a cat is stalking you and decides to attack a 9mm will probably end the fight. If it's defending it's kits or feels cornered all bets are off and you want the most powerful handgun you can effectively use.

Medium sized female cougar defending her kitten against a big male grizzly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7MuFDVEUro

Be safe!

jaydubya
July 15, 2009, 08:42 PM
"Its all about placement."

That comes into play only if you see the mountain lion before it is chewing on your neck. If you see it, you are already ahead of the game. Simply opening your shirt to make yourself look bigger, while shouting your head off, can be sufficient to scare them off. Or not. San Diego County, and Orange County to our north, are well populated with mountain lions. They prefer mule deer and mountain sheep, but every now and then they find joggers, hikers, and golfers to be tasty.

Once it really is about placement, a good hollow point 9mm round, such as the Speer +p 124gr Gold Dot, should do the job. Mountain lions are not heavily structured like a bear.

Cordially, Jack

Steve C
July 15, 2009, 08:54 PM
I actually know a person who was attacked by a mountain lion while deer hunting. He killed the cat with a hip shot from his rifle as it launched itself at him according to his story. Said that he just happen to catch a movement out of the corner of his eye just before it made its attack. He said it was a young cat that had a mouth and paws full of porcupine quills which he believes is the only reason it came after him being that humans are slow enough for even a starving hurt cat to catch.

His story pretty much illustrates the point that if you are rifle hunting you already have enough firepower to kill any cougar.

A cougar or mountain lion is about as heavy as a human being, generally under 200 lbs so you don't need a big or deep penetrating round ike you would for a 400 to 600 lb black bear. A 9mm should be fully adequate for defense if the situation should arise. If you where handgun hunting a .357mag through .44 mag would be a better choice but the situation is different than a self defense situation.

Dr_2_B
July 15, 2009, 09:13 PM
Umm, why not shoot the lil feline with whatever you're aiming at that deer?

BlindJustice
July 15, 2009, 10:54 PM
I'm in SE WA State just a few miles from Moscow ID

Cougar attacked a camper gathering firewood out near
elk creek, Elk RIver. they rolled down a slope and the guy
knifed it and it ran off. He came back to Moscow and
yesterday they had a tracker with hounds looking for the cat.

TIz also Blackbear country, as well as the rising population
of grey wolves.

I'd want more in a handgun for the times when the rifle might be
leaning against a tree or something.

Your hide,

Randall

VeggieH
July 15, 2009, 11:15 PM
tec-22 with a "broken" trigger mechanicism :D.Carried one for years doing seawalls in FLA.I saw gators,sharks, and feral dogs on the daily and saw a panther close once.I would trust anything that carrys more then 12 rounds no matter what caliber(except airsoft or .177 BB guns), as long as you are a keen fellow and very alert.If you are worried,travel in staggered pattern with a point man,and don"t take the your picture under a tree.

kx250kev
July 15, 2009, 11:28 PM
I won't get in a debate over the 9mm round, but I just believe it is underrated. In my own penetration tests involving winchester white box FMJ ammo, the 9mm out penetrated .38, .40 and .45 easily punching through three 2x8 boards. I guess I sufficiently answered my own questions regarding the power of this round. ...

iHateRodents
July 15, 2009, 11:31 PM
Mountain lions are smaller than humans. They are a lot less aggressive too, so unless you're specifically hunting them, you should be more than covered with a 9MM.

MisterMike
July 15, 2009, 11:42 PM
Medium sized female cougar defending her kitten against a big male grizzly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7MuFDVEUro

That's actually pretty cool . . . and a good reminder of the fearlessness and ferocity of wild cats. I particularly like the part where she takes a couple shots at the retreating bear's arse, just for good measure.

Just One Shot
July 16, 2009, 09:21 AM
Yes,






If the first round doesn't kill it then keep shooting until it drops or you run out of ammo.

:neener:

OregonJohnny
July 16, 2009, 04:36 PM
BlindJustice:
TIz also Blackbear country, as well as the rising population
of grey wolves.

I'd want more in a handgun for the times when the rifle might be
leaning against a tree or something.

That's what I was thinking. Here in Northwest Oregon, if you're in cougar habitat, there's a very good chance you're in black bear habitat as well. I believe a 9mm would be sufficient against a cougar that you saw coming (not much chance of that), but not against a black bear. So if you're in habitat roamed by both cougars and bears, why not carry a .357 or .44?

Pietro Beretta
July 16, 2009, 08:04 PM
Unless the Mountain Lion is really sick -- or really hungry, you shouldn't have a problem scaring one off just by being in the area.

Loud Noises: shouting, or a gunshot should usually always do the trick.

If your out hunting; and for some reason you do get attacked: I would use the rifle in hand.

If there is a possibility of much bigger predators: hence bear territory then I would carry a 44mag. Getting a shot off before the animal is on you is going to be the hard part no matter what.

9mm would be fine for the cat; However if your already carring a rifle, the rifle would do fine. If your worried about bears, I would step up to something that would put the bear down: hence the 44mag.

The Lone Haranguer
July 16, 2009, 08:09 PM
Cats are muscular but not big boned or heavy skinned. What they are is fast and stealthy. Your biggest problem, if one is actually hell bent on eating you, will be getting a clear shot and hitting it in the first place. If you can do that, the 9mm can put them down, but I would prefer a JHP bullet to a FMJ.

CPshooter
July 17, 2009, 03:23 AM
I went to the zoo the other day with my girlfriend and saw some serious cats. They are some scary SOBs..I'll tell ya! They can climb, jump, run, etc fast as lightning. It would be nothing for one to climb up a tree and kill you before you even realized it was coming for you. The thought of even hunting deer in their territory scares the crap out of me. I would not feel safe at all with just a 9mm pistol. A .223 pistol with a red dot sight and a sling is a much better choice IMHO. Then again, I don't see cats as being a very big threat after being hit with anything. They don't seem like very persistent animals. I feel like if you were to shoot one with a 9mm, it would wimper and run away like a big 'ole pussy cat! A bear, on the other hand, would probably keep coming for you even after taking several shots of something larger, like .40s&w or .45acp.

loop
July 17, 2009, 05:40 AM
Most Western states require a centerfire for all big game, EXCEPT mountain lions. Most of those states permit taking pumas with a 22 RFM.

A good friend is lion hunting guide and I've never known him to use, carry or recommend anything but a .22 RFM to his clients.

I've know old ladies to chase them off with a broom.

Of all the things to fear in this world, mountain lions are way down on the list.

From time to time you hear how one has chased down a jogger or killed a dog that was tied up, but they are not fearsome animals. Their primary prey is deer. If you don't have deer you don't have mountain lions.

We used to live even farther out in the middle of nowhere than we do now and I chased one out from under our triple-wide with a Streamlight flashlight - it was after my goats, I think. By the time I retrieved a firearm from the house all I could see was feet and tail almost a quarter-of-a-mile away.

As someone who lives in a rural environment - I'm a lot more afraid of skunks than mountain lions. They have a high incidence of rabies and they stink.

At least mountain lions don't spray stink.

If you have a gun and encounter a mountain lion, well, you are well armed...

Johnny Guest
July 17, 2009, 11:11 AM
Information drawn from an AP News Story (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MOUNTAIN_LION_ATTACK?SITE=CAACS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT).

On SU12JUL, a Colorado man used a chain saw to fight off an apparently starving mountain lion that attacked him in Wyoming's Soshone National Forest. The man was camping W of Cody with his wife and two toddlers.

Dustin Britton, a 32-year-old mechanic and ex-Marine from Windsor, Colo., raised his 18-inch chain saw and met the lion head-on as it pounced - a collision he described as feeling like a grown man running directly into him.

"It batted me three or four times with its front paws and as quick as I hit it with that saw it just turned away." The wounded animal retreated after Britton inflicted a six- to eight-inch gash on the lion's shoulder, leaving him with only a small puncture wound on his forearm.

"You would think if you hit an animal with a chain saw it would dig right in," he said. "I might as well have hit it with a hockey stick."

The mountain lion was shot and killed Monday after it attacked a dog brought in to track the animal, which was 4 to 5 years old. Authorities say it was in poor physical condition and appeared to be starving.

Apologies for a post only marginally on-topic (Lion attack, but no forearm component.) I imagine Mr. Britton would rather have had a heavy handgun, but he deported himself well with the chain saw.

Best,
Johnny

The Lone Haranguer
July 17, 2009, 09:12 PM
I am more afraid of two-legged predatory animals. ;)

mljdeckard
July 17, 2009, 10:42 PM
I think it kind of depends on which party is on the defensive.

I read an article about a cougar hunter with dogs, who let them tree the cat, and then he would knock it down with a Kimber 1911.

On the other hand, if one was charging me down, I would want a decent sized rifle or a shotgun.

1SOW
July 18, 2009, 01:07 AM
A handgun you know and are proficient with , loaded with ammo you shoot is better than the reverse---except for the noise it makes.

Skillet
July 23, 2009, 12:28 PM
what i am saying, is that i don't carry my rifle with a round in the chamber all the time. i can carry my CZ cocked and locked. and, i only shoot my .243 at deer. and something tells me that it is a tad bit harder to shoot an animal with a long gun with a scope on it at close range rather than a pistol with iron sights on it at close range. the draw won't be a problem, im 15 years old, my reflexes and senses are plenty fine. see, i know that the cats will probably come around when we have killed the deer and are gutting it or something. because something tells me that they would much rather have the deer than me. i'm to bony. and i will have my rifle down off of me at that moment. so all i need to know, is if a 9mm will stop a cat. i guess it will. all of the other stuff is just what i need to do, and that changes as the terrain changes.

ROBBY.1911
July 23, 2009, 07:34 PM
i would go with a 147 gr JHP. then i would sneak up on him and shoot him in the balls. that should give you a decent head start.

mgregg85
July 23, 2009, 10:26 PM
"Will a 9mm stop a mountain lion?"

Yes of course it can, the question you really should be asking is "how many good hits with a 9mm will it take to stop a mountain lion" and then ask yourself if your weapon's magazine can hold at least that many rounds.

Personally, I would go with something a bit bigger but a 9mm is better than nothing.

Loanshark
July 23, 2009, 10:32 PM
For you folks who keep telling the OP just to use his hunting rifle. Don't forget that it's possible, heck even likely that if the cat sees you as prey you're in trouble. Cats totally out class humans, and about anything else as hunters. If the cat wants you it may go from completely hidden to knawing on the back of your neck in the blink of an eye. Carry whatever sidearm you are most comfortable with. I'd carry my Glock 19 with one in the pipe. Just point and shoot.

Don't ignore those animal insticts. If something feels off/ uncomfortable, there's usually a good reason for it.

Skillet
July 23, 2009, 11:17 PM
it will take one shot.
because people that think that a 9mm will stop nothing bigger than a coyote, are a horrible shot.

AKElroy
July 23, 2009, 11:29 PM
I heard about a guy jumped by a big cat outside of Cloudcroft NM; put 13 9mm rounds into it. He was able to get away, seriously injured, the cat was able to get back into the same tree by the time park rangers arrived to dispatch it. I would want more than a 9mm.

The problem with cats is that they will be on you before you ever hear them. A dog would help, but I would want a big bore revolver w/ HP's for what will likely be contact shots.

Pocket Rocket
August 7, 2009, 02:47 PM
Most of those states permit taking pumas with a 22 RFM

Is RFM a Rimfire Magnum? Mountain Lion are considered big game in Nevada and can't be taken with anything smaller than a 2" centerfire cartridge. At least in Nevada, that would rule out using the 9mm:

http://www.ndow.org/law/regs/huntregs/huntbook/2009/09_hb_section_2.pdf



Weapons for Hunting Big Game

Centerfire Firearm
(Refer to NACs 503.142 & 503.150)
Rifles: Must use a center-fire cartridge of .22 caliber or larger.
Handguns: Must have at least a 4-inch barrel and use either:

1.) A centerfire cartridge of .22 caliber or larger with an overall
loaded length of 2 inches; or

2.) A centerfire cartridge of .24 caliber or larger with a case length
equal to or longer than the case of a Remington .44 magnum.
Prohibited Firearms: Any firearm capable of firing more than
one round with one continuous pull of the trigger.
Prohibited Ammunition: Full metal jacket, full steel, full steel
core, tracer or incendiary bullets or shells.
Shotgun (only legal for deer and mountain lion): 10, 12, 16, or 20
gauge. Shotgun barrels may be smooth or rifled for either species.
For Deer: Only rifled slugs or shotgun rounds with sabots that
contain a single expanding projectile may be used for deer.

IdahoLT1
August 8, 2009, 08:30 PM
Is RFM a Rimfire Magnum? Mountain Lion are considered big game in Nevada and can't be taken with anything smaller than a 2" centerfire cartridge. At least in Nevada, that would rule out using the 9mm:

http://www.ndow.org/law/regs/huntreg..._section_2.pdf




This topic isnt about hunting. Its about self defense and none of those rules will apply when one is protecting themselves or family from a wild animal. Even then, Idaho has very lax hunting requirements when it comes to the firearms/weapons used. This is just for rifles/shotguns. There are other sections for archery and muzzle-loaders.


Weapon Restrictions
Rifle and Shotgun
In any hunt, including any-weapon seasons, it is unlawful to
pursue or kill big game animals:
• By any means other than approved firearms,
muzzleloaders and archery methods.
• With any electronic device attached to, or incorporated
on, the firearm or scope; Except scopes containing
battery powered or tritium lighted reticles are allowed.
• With any firearm that, in combination with a scope, sling
and/or any attachments, weighs more than 16 pounds.
• With any fully automatic firearm.
• With any shotgun using shot smaller than #00 buck.
• With any rimfire rifle, rimfire handgun, or muzzleloading handgun, except for mountain lion.

So by this, i would assume anyone could hunt an Elk with a .204 ruger or a black bear with a 9mm. There are no guidlines for pistols, except it cant be rimfire when it comes to big game(which excludes mountain lion)

W L Johnson
August 8, 2009, 09:07 PM
A dog would help
A dog would help in two ways
1) give you more warning
2) give the cat something else to eat instead. :evil:

Pocket Rocket
August 11, 2009, 12:55 PM
This topic isnt about hunting. Its about self defense and none of those rules will apply when one is protecting themselves or family from a wild animal.

That's true, but if the Department of Wildlife doesn't want you to use a 9mm to dispatch a mountain lion, isn't that a good reason to consider a higher caliber for self-defense from one? That's what I was getting at by posting the weapons restrictions.

Drgong
August 11, 2009, 09:17 PM
Sure it could, but the worse thing is that a mountain cat many times will sneak up on you. Thus I always thought that something your used to and can get onto target quickly (even if being jumped on) would be the most important thing.

It is better then a stick, if I had a choice, it would be a .44 special loaded with gold-dots.

IdahoLT1
August 11, 2009, 09:44 PM
That's true, but if the Department of Wildlife doesn't want you to use a 9mm to dispatch a mountain lion, isn't that a good reason to consider a higher caliber for self-defense from one? That's what I was getting at by posting the weapons restrictions.

No. US citizens have the right to defend themselves with whatever they can and by any means. States pass minimum caliber requirements to appease animal rights activist and sugar coat it by saying its more humane.

Hypothetically, if a person breaks into my house and intends to do harm, what difference does it make if i defend myself with a 12ga. shotgun or with a frying pan?

loop
August 12, 2009, 05:12 AM
Didn't think about it in my first post, but I lived near Homedale, Id, when I went lion hunting with a friend who is a guide and owns a game farm near Parma.

The rules in Idaho may have changed since then (I moved from Idaho about nine years ago), but he carried a .22RFM.

I was much more concerned about bears because I am an avid trout angler. Bears like to wait for you to land a trout or start cleaning your catch and then go after your fish.

I carried a Glock 20 loaded with 200-grain hardball. Carrying 16 rounds of hot 10mm ammo made me as confident as I could get with a pistol. I see you list an Elite Match in 10 in your signature. That would be my back country carry gun.

Unless you are hanging around in Owyhee County, I suspect bears are more of an issue than lions.

But, since you are in Boise, I suggest you go over to Intermountain Outdoor Sports and find an old guy behind the gun counter and ask him what works best on the local backwoods predators. If his name is Ron S., take his word as Gospel.

The dog suggestion is a good one for lion protection. I'd recommend a cur, a Jack Russel or a rat terrier. They are all very quick and agile, have excellent noses and great ears. They won't win a fight with a predator, but they will give you more warning than almost any other breed. Then it is up to you.

In Idaho, you must remember that it is OK to kill predators to protect livestock, but it is not to protect pets. So, if you must shoot something out of season it is because your life was threatened, not your dog's...

I miss Idaho. If I ever go back it will be to the Owyhees, somewhere near CDA or near Pocy. The Owyhee River Canyon is one of the last great "undiscovered" places in the country.

IdahoLT1
August 12, 2009, 07:25 PM
Didn't think about it in my first post, but I lived near Homedale, Id, when I went lion hunting with a friend who is a guide and owns a game farm near Parma.

The rules in Idaho may have changed since then (I moved from Idaho about nine years ago), but he carried a .22RFM.

I was much more concerned about bears because I am an avid trout angler. Bears like to wait for you to land a trout or start cleaning your catch and then go after your fish.

I carried a Glock 20 loaded with 200-grain hardball. Carrying 16 rounds of hot 10mm ammo made me as confident as I could get with a pistol. I see you list an Elite Match in 10 in your signature. That would be my back country carry gun.

Unless you are hanging around in Owyhee County, I suspect bears are more of an issue than lions.

But, since you are in Boise, I suggest you go over to Intermountain Outdoor Sports and find an old guy behind the gun counter and ask him what works best on the local backwoods predators. If his name is Ron S., take his word as Gospel.

The dog suggestion is a good one for lion protection. I'd recommend a cur, a Jack Russel or a rat terrier. They are all very quick and agile, have excellent noses and great ears. They won't win a fight with a predator, but they will give you more warning than almost any other breed. Then it is up to you.

In Idaho, you must remember that it is OK to kill predators to protect livestock, but it is not to protect pets. So, if you must shoot something out of season it is because your life was threatened, not your dog's...

I miss Idaho. If I ever go back it will be to the Owyhees, somewhere near CDA or near Pocy. The Owyhee River Canyon is one of the last great "undiscovered" places in the country.


In idaho, mountain lions can be legally hunted with rimfire rifles or pistols.

Unfortunately, Intermountain Outdoor Sports has been closed for a long time. Probably like 10 years or so. I use to see the former owner at gun shows where he had a rack of Romanian AK's fo sale.

Your right in some respects as far as protecting domestic animals from predators. Like you said, Idaho Statute 36-1107(b) allows a owner of livestock or employee to protect livestock from cougars, bears and predators that are attacking or molesting livestock.

However, what i find odd is that Idaho Statute 36-1107(c) allows the disposal of wolves that are attacking or molesting livestock and domestic animals by its owners or company employees.

Im somewhat confident that if a person protects their dog from a cougar, that F&G wont make a real big deal about it.

MD_Willington
August 13, 2009, 12:22 AM
9-9mm balls out of a 12 gage will :neener:

They are thin skinned... but sneaky..

we have some big'ns where I'm from ;)

http://www.huntingvancouverisland.com/photo_gallery/cougar_hunting.html

RoostRider
August 13, 2009, 01:15 AM
Thread summary:

- yes it would!

- no it wouldn't!

- it might, but I would want something bigger if a charging lion was going to eat my face!

- it's all about shot placement!

Sorry.... had to do it.... lol... you're good man... given that is all you can find, the question is moot as to different loads... you aren't going to get attacked by a Mountain Lion, and if you are, you have a LOT of chance of killing/wounding it bad and/or scaring it away (as much as most any gun)...

FM-793
August 13, 2009, 09:03 AM
Thread summary:

- yes it would!

- no it wouldn't!

- it might, but I would want something bigger if a charging lion was going to eat my face!

- it's all about shot placement!

Ha! You obviously forgot my favorite:

-"my brother's wife's cousin's uncle's sister's nephew killed a grizzly/polar bear/bengal tiger/charging rhino/mountain lion with a .22 LR/Gamo air rifle/Daisy Red Ryder"

Texasborn
August 13, 2009, 05:37 PM
i would go with a 147 gr JHP. then i would sneak up on him and shoot him in the balls. that should give you a decent head start.
You better hope it's not a female lion.

UnTainted
August 13, 2009, 08:51 PM
loop, shhhhhh! don't tell "them" (outsiders) about the Owyhees!

BushyGuy
August 13, 2009, 08:55 PM
oh yeah a 9mm can definitely kill a mountain lion, i am not saying with one shot but a couple of shots with FMJ or +p Corbons will do the job. alot of people think the 9mm is under rated , its the .45 that is over rated. a 9mm NATO FMJ bullet can penetrate twice as deep as a .45 FMJ, and a +p+ 9mm JHP can hit alot harder then any .45 JHP.

Keb
August 13, 2009, 09:32 PM
How many times will you pull the trigger?

loop
August 14, 2009, 06:13 AM
Untainted,

Sorry, didn't mean to let the cat out of the bag about the Owyhees...

Probably won't make much difference even if I did, though. It is too rough a country for most urban types.

Only place I've ever been that a muddy swirl in a stream means tasty trout - LOL.

Wouldn't worry too much about the flatlanders. All they seem to do is make the sheriff's search and rescue budget go into the red every year...

Gungle George
August 14, 2009, 09:15 AM
Man, I sure wouldn't bet my life on a 9mm. When I'm hiking, fishing or bow hunting I carry a Smith & Wesson Model 57 .41 mag.

Cheers,

Gungle George

Revolver Ocelot
August 14, 2009, 03:06 PM
I'd hope a bullet to the cats face would atleast scare it off if it didn't kill it, though I would feel more comfortable carrying something bigger.

broncobob
August 14, 2009, 08:26 PM
First of all I shoot 45 acp,always have since my tour of duty in the
Marine Corps ended in 1968.I have several pistols Glock,Kimber,S&W.
this is how i stack my magazines,First round is A corbon blue tip +P
second through seven rounds are black talons.my thinking is the first
round I want to virtually explode in him,second and so on to rip his
guts out.Now don't get me wrong,I'm not mean spirited,just direct
and to the point,if ever I have to pull it in self defence,I want it to
end quick,fast,and in A hurry,what do you think.

cannibal4
August 16, 2009, 03:02 PM
If you dont panic, stay calm, get good shot placement 9mm will take down a cat. In January I took a 290# wild hog with 1 shot at 15 yards, 9mm Ruger w/ 125gr.
It's all about staying calm and shot placement.

MRPAPA
August 17, 2009, 08:05 AM
And the answer is yes if you place the shot properly
No if you dont
Maybe if your close:rolleyes:

middy
August 17, 2009, 10:30 AM
No.

Nukes from orbit is the only way to be sure.

Or a .45acp. A near miss with a .45 will make their brain explode.

A 9mm will just make them angry. :rolleyes:

anheiserglock
August 17, 2009, 01:50 PM
Any Zoos near your house??

Sheepdog1968
August 17, 2009, 02:14 PM
A 9 mm wouldn't be my first choice. There was an article in the San Francisco Chronicle in late Jan/early Feb 2009 detailing the cops who shot the escaped tiger in the San Francisco zoo w their 40 cal handguns. Of course, tigers are bigger than Mt. Lions. Having said that, it's better than nothing. I'd also cnosider bringing a can of bear mace/pepper spray.

Skillet
August 17, 2009, 04:16 PM
i'm in the owyhees (or however you spell it) and i haven't seen one bear in these mountains, so i am not super worried about bears.

KaceCoyote
August 17, 2009, 04:24 PM
9mm would ruin the cat's day, but I dont know if It'd stop him from ruining yours. Big cats are pretty shy, and pretty stealthy. By the time you see it, you should be prepared for contact work with something capable of causing massive soft tissue damage. 10mm would be an excellent choice in an autoloader but think you'll wanna go bigger. .44mag or larger.

329PD is a nice option.

loop
August 18, 2009, 07:26 AM
Soda,

If you are in the Owyhees you ought to know how to spell it. I suggest you spend more time in class at Marsing High School and less time fantasizing about your hunting trip up Reynolds Creek.

Owyhee is the original spelling of Hawaii by Capt. Cook. The county got its name from a group of Hawaiians going into the mountains seeking their fortune and no trace was ever found of them.

Cook's spelling was used to pay tribute to Cook and the lost explorers.

Reynolds is a great place to get a two-pointer, but during deer season it is unlikely you'll be out of earshot of another ATV. You'll hear them buzzing around all day long. That may be why F&G will have a checkpoint set up along the road out.

You won't get a trophy and you won't get attacked by a lion.

Aside from that, please explain how it is that you would carry a rifle with the chamber empty, but a sidearm cocked and locked. And how you can drop your rifle, draw, aim and fire a pistol faster than racking a round into the chamber of the rifle that is already in your hands.

Lemme see, I'm gonna toss the rifle I'm carrying, scope and all, into the rocks so I can quick draw my sidearm!

I carry my rifle with the chamber empty because:

A: I don't trust the safety.

B: I want to scare any deer away with the noise of racking my rifle.

C: I'm driving around on an ATV and want to carry my rifle, but things shake, rattle and roll and the safety might slip off as I off road.

D: I'm dumb as a rock and want to show off my fast draw.

There won't be a single cat willing to show its face in Reynolds during the deer hunt. There will be far too many ATVs and far too many people rapid firing to try and chase down a forker for cats to think of you as lunch.

If you want a deer, go to the canyons on either side of Reynolds. Go a good way uphill on the side away from Reynolds. Set up a blind two weeks ahead of time. Go to it two days before the season opens and make a cold camp. Be in the blind two hours before dawn on opening day.

If you get et by a lion, you deserve it.

If you come home empty handed you deserve that too.

If you come home with a fork-horn, well, you did as well as a lot of other lazy hunters.

ezypikns
August 18, 2009, 08:04 AM
You can kill a Mt Lion with a .22 yup you tree it with dogs shoot it in the lung and wait for it to fall from the tree.

Running and treeing lions with dogs was the most reliable way to find and shoot them.

Of course, they had the cat up a tree, it was a sitting shot, the cat was focused on the dogs, and they could take their time with the shot...or two, or three as needed.


Having said that, I'd still want at least a 9mm pistol with me for casual hiking (unless it was deer season and the main armament would be something heavier).

Demitrios
August 18, 2009, 08:33 AM
Masked Man pretty much summed it up. Now autoloaders are great but the only I would personally trust against a wild animal would be 10mm, .45 Super and .460 Rowland. Your best bet however is go revolver, particularly .357, .44 Magnum or .454 Casull or better, those are the most tried and true rounds for defensive purposes in the woods. Plus revolvers are more reliable than autoaders (this will probably raise a few eyebrows) but when it comes to mechanisms of any kind less means more reliable. . . . usually.

eatont9999
August 18, 2009, 09:26 AM
Sure a 9mm will kill a mountain lion. It is just a matter of how many times you can shoot it before it eats your face.

jaydubya
August 18, 2009, 04:22 PM
eatont9999 said, "Sure a 9mm will kill a mountain lion. It is just a matter of how many times you can shoot it before it eats your face."

First there will be a little chewing on the back of your neck, after which caliber and placement becomes academic.

Cordially, Jack

fourwedge
August 18, 2009, 09:31 PM
Yes, I just saw a 150 lb mountain lion killed on Animal Planet by a 9mm glock. 2 shots

bryskee
August 19, 2009, 10:16 AM
a .22 can even do it. It's about (as others stated) where you put it. That and if my 9mm wont do it, the other 31 rnds will. All about placement...

makarovnik
August 19, 2009, 10:39 PM
Yes it will. I bet pepper spray and a few whacks on the nose might stop one also.

ScareyH22A
August 20, 2009, 12:33 AM
It penetrates just as well as a .40 or .45 so it has potential. You just need to hit it where it counts.

m2steven
August 20, 2009, 11:42 AM
i saw a show called when animals attack. Some kid was attacked and the uncle or father shot the mtn lion twice. First shot didnt do it, second shot
put it to rest. Probably just a placement issue.

shamus
August 20, 2009, 12:29 PM
Sure a 9mm will kill a mountain lion. It is just a matter of how many times you can shoot it before it eats your face.

For the win!

Rammer
August 20, 2009, 05:01 PM
Its been a year or so ago... But in "Combat Handguns" Chuck Taylor is talking about preferred load for his Glock 17. He lists killing different animals with the different loads. One of the animals was a mountain lion. If I remember correctly, it was one of the Hornady loads with the XTP bullet.

Rammer

BushyGuy
August 20, 2009, 05:21 PM
use 147grain Hydra shoks or the +p+ 124 gr coming out of a 4 inch or longe rbarrel should do the job , as long as you have a full clip of 17 rounds or more .

Big Bill
January 5, 2010, 11:46 PM
I used to carry a .22 mag pistol when running my hounds for lions. After the cat was treed, it would take one shot (most times) to the chest to let the cat bleed out before it dropped on the ground dead. This was the way to keep the cat from killing all the dogs. A more powerful caliber would knock the cat out of the tree; and, it could/would wreck havoc on a pack of hounds before it died.

I'd have no problem now, carrying a high capacity 9mm as protection when I'm hiking. Except, I'm not sure how it'd work on wolves. I'd sure like to try it though.

BTW, I used to scout/hunt (Idaho side) from Rogerson to Rolland Nv. to Grasmere to the other side of the Duck Valley Indian reservation and points west. I love this state.

481
January 6, 2010, 12:16 AM
Silliest thread I've read in a while. Laughter it got.

Taking on a large cat that is highly adrenalized and strongly motivated to make a meal of you, with a 9mm (much as I like the caliber) no matter what it is loaded with, will likely result in a "score" of:

Big Kitty: 1
You: 0 (And a "tie" of any sort is not a "win".)

North Bender
January 6, 2010, 01:00 AM
Silliest thread indeed. How did this get 4 pages of replies?

Shoot at a raging cat with a 9mm if that's your wish. Good luck, see ya.

NG VI
January 6, 2010, 01:02 AM
I would go with 147+P HST. It's what I carry in an FNP-9M and a CZ PCR, so I'm quite sure it would be good to go out of the CZ 75B, and a couple of them into a cat should be a good start.

NG VI
January 6, 2010, 01:05 AM
And for the people calling it silly- How about Sanf Francisco or San Diego zoo a year or two ago when three police officers had to kill a TIGER with their .40 pistols? Yeah .40 packs a little more juice than 9mm, but a mountain lion-> tiger is a significantly bigger change than 9->.40

BushyGuy
January 6, 2010, 01:13 AM
yeah a double tap multiple times till the Mountain Lion stops moving, either 147gr JHP or 124 gr FMJ will get the job done -if it doesnt after you empty the Mag into it and it still aint dead means you have an aim problem ;)

481
January 6, 2010, 01:25 AM
And for the people calling it silly- How about Sanf Francisco or San Diego zoo a year or two ago when three police officers had to kill a TIGER with their .40 pistols? Yeah .40 packs a little more juice than 9mm, but a mountain lion-> tiger is a significantly bigger change than 9->.40

Not exactly a "brilliant idea" either.

While you have to use what you have when you are caught in an unanticipated situation, the first thing that I (especially being a Police Officer) would've done, had I been dispatched to such a dangerous and unpredictable situation (Zoo animals "on the loose") , would be to un-rack and charge my issued shotgun (an 11-87 loaded with 00 Buck) if ordered to respond to the situation.

Tiger, mountain lion, leopard or lion: taking a service pistol (9mm, .40S&W, .357 SIG, .45ACP) willingly into a situation that likely requires shots being fired in order to "resolve the problem" is a foolhardy decision at best. Besides compromising your survival potential, making such an unsuitable decision is also likely to violate one of the Zoo's other rules: "Don't Feed The Animals"


See post #81.

NG VI
January 6, 2010, 01:54 AM
I don't think they had much time, hopefully their agency doesn't just not issue them with long guns.

Either way, that's what they had, and it did work.

NVCZ
January 6, 2010, 02:30 AM
The OP was talking about hunting and what may take down a large cat.
I hunt and I would use my freaking rifle to try to stop it or anything else coming at me.

Never hurts to carry a sidearm but, hey I got a 9mm on my hip and a .30-06 cocked and locked maybe IN MY HANDS, what am I going to use? hmmmm.

Now if I was bow hunting that might be different but I would likely still have a bow IN MY HANDS for Gods sake. With a knocked arrow.

And as stated earlier, most people rarely see a big cat in the wild and the possibility of being attacked is not likely. Can it happen? yes. Chances are? No. I've never seen one in the wild, seen signs of them though.
I've been a Ranger for twenty years and deal with thousands of back country folks who have never seen a lion.
But I do wonder how many lions saw THEM... :eek:

NVCZ

NWCP
January 6, 2010, 03:50 AM
If trekking in mountain lion territory, which is more often than not black bear territory as well, you'd be better served by a wheel gun rather than a semi auto. I would think a .41 magnum would cover your butt well and not be too cumbersome to hike with. As previous posters have stated, the lion will see you long before you see it 9 times out of 10. There's a good reason to hunt with a partner. Cougar is one of them, but not the most important. A 9mm would kill the big cat with proper shot placement. It's just not the ideal pistol for the job. Better than beating it with a cedar branch I suppose.

481
January 6, 2010, 01:08 PM
I don't think they had much time, hopefully their agency doesn't just not issue them with long guns.

Either way, that's what they had, and it did work.

NG IV,

Yep, they were fortunate.

Over the course of my LE career, I've had to dispatch charging dogs (Rottweilers and Pit Bulls) six times. "Urban" patrol will get you alot of that.

I was bitten only once (severely), by a Pit Bull that weighed about 40 pounds after I hit him three times in the upper chest with .45 230 gr. JHPs (Winchester Rangers) that passed nearly his entire length before exiting his flanks.

Two more rounds (muzzle contact) to the dog's left side "removed" him from my upper thigh permanently.

For those who feel that they can effectively answer the fatal threat offered by an enraged mountian lion (whose body weight may range from 80 to 140 pounds), armed with two paws full of knives (claws) and a mouth full of sharp, pointy teeth with a service pistol (in 9mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP):

I pray that your "self assurance" in your abilities and the "confidence" in your choice of weapon/caliber rises to meet the "reality" that you will face.

In the end though, people will do what they wish no matter how ill-advised it might be and you cannot save them from themselves.

S'pose "kitty" has gotta eat, too. :evil:

Dr.Mall Ninja
January 6, 2010, 02:22 PM
Id really want a 357 mag at least if I was seriously worried about mountain lions, and i'd be getting the hottest loads I could find for it it, but thats just me.

Big Bill
January 6, 2010, 04:23 PM
Mt lions are not pit bulls. They don’t behave like them. They are not aggressive like pit bulls.

They are rare to see and rarely attack healthy adults. The biggest problem we have with them is encroachment by civilization into their traditional hunting grounds. Adult lions are very territorial and solitary (except females with young). And, they have a specific territory that they mark and hunt in, which is generally about 20 sq. miles.

Mt lions avoid people whenever possible. But, sometimes young lions or displaced lions may revert to desperate measures in order to survive. These lions are the most dangerous of all. They seek opportunities and usually try to exploit weakness.

Many years ago, when I was younger, I hunted cougars and bears with hounds, and never carried anything bigger than a .22 mag. And, I NEVER had any problems. I was never attacked by a lion even when I was in close proximity with one. And, my hounds were never attacked or hurt by one either. In fact, we have lots of cougars here in the mountains of southern Idaho; and, it was hard to even find a track fresh enough to run.

So, I don’t think lions pose much of a threat. But, I do admit that for those who don’t go to the mountains often, a good lever .45 or 30-30 would be my first choice. But, a .357 revolver would probably work OK – if one knows how to use it and can hit what they aim at.

When in the hills, I am always looking for tracks and other sign that indicate what animals are in the area. Situational awareness is a trait that everyone needs to cultivate and improve. IOW, always be ready for anything.

Remember that the tools you use aren’t nearly as important as how well you use them.

481
January 6, 2010, 04:54 PM
Mt lions are not pit bulls. They don’t behave like them. They are not aggressive like pit bulls.

Not the point that I was making.

I never said that they (mountain lions) act like them (pit bulls). If you'll (re-)read my post above you'll see that I said nothing of the sort. I never equated the behavior of mountain lions with that of pit bulls.

Big Bill
January 6, 2010, 05:50 PM
481 – please don’t think that I was attacking you.

All I was saying is that a mountain lion is far less likely to attack a person than is a pit bull. I realize that the point you were making is that if one is attacked by a mt lion, it would be very hard to kill with a 9mm. And, that's probably generally true. But, the same argument could be made against a rifle. If one is surprised by a lion, a rifle would be hard to bring into the fight at close quarters. Perhaps a large fighting knife would be better.

If one is completely surprised by a lion, chances are that, that person one will be dead rather quickly - despite what gun is carried. I don't think the argument here is whether a 9mm or a .357 is the better caliber to use. I think the discussion should be what to do and how to prevent a lion attack from occuring.

I also personally think that an aggressive stance and even barking at a lion that is in close proximity plus some bear pepper spray may be all the deterrent needed.

In my experience of hunting extensively the mountains of Idaho, I have never worried about being attacked by a mountain lion. So, I'm personally happy with carrying a hi cap 9mm. I venture to say that a proper 9mm round placed right will kill a mt lion just as dead as a .357.

W.E.G.
January 6, 2010, 06:22 PM
Lion killed with security guard's revolver.
Doesn't look like kitty's too tough once the lead starts flying.

Violent and bloody - You have been warned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqSLWMnc8-c

Big Bill
January 6, 2010, 06:47 PM
Here's the problem we have in a nutshell:

Mountain Lion Encounter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj7ZS-L-RAc&feature=related

Too many people in lion territory.

481
January 6, 2010, 09:00 PM
481 – please don’t think that I was attacking you.

All I was saying is that a mountain lion is far less likely to attack a person than is a pit bull. I realize that the point you were making is that if one is attacked by a mt lion, it would be very hard to kill with a 9mm.

Bill,

We're cool. I didn't take your post like that at all, but thanks for making it clear. :)

I agree with the remainder of your post, too. There's likely no chance of getting out of a scrape like that (big cat attack) without being injured.

Manco
January 6, 2010, 09:02 PM
Lion killed with security guard's revolver.
Doesn't look like kitty's too tough once the lead starts flying.

Violent and bloody - You have been warned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqSLWMnc8-c

That's a real lion, too, which is much larger and more powerful than a so-called mountain lion, which is really a puma or cougar (what's in a name?). And yes, a service pistol caliber round--even a 9mm I bet--can stop and kill a lion, although I would feel more confident with a hard-cast round in .40 or .45, just in case. Sure, a .44 Magnum would be even better, but guess what--it won't necessarily stop or kill with a single shot every time, either. I'll take a caliber that I can shoot more easily, and save the .44 for grizzlies.

357SIG
January 6, 2010, 09:29 PM
9mm is more than enough for a mt lion. It will probably take multiple shots, as it would with most anything else.

Skillet
January 6, 2010, 09:36 PM
If you are in the Owyhees you ought to know how to spell it. I suggest you spend more time in class at Marsing High School and less time fantasizing about your hunting trip up Reynolds Creek.
-Originally posted by Loop

I live in Nampa but hunt in the Reyonolds Creek Drainage area, and can spell very efficiently thank you, and can spend my time the way I feel like it.

and I don't fantasize, I question and think about the task ahead of me that is why I posted this in the first place. And, I would carry a rifle with one in the chamber, I just forget most of the time, as well as forgetting to put one round in the chamber of my 9mm.

And if you actually hunted up in that area you would know that all I have witnessed in the past few years are deer that are too BIG.

And, when the opening day is on a weekday, the people traffic up there is very minimal.

You sir, failed to answer my original post and instead opted to insult me and offend me like many of the idiots do at my pathetic school I attend.

Calling a person "dumb as a rock" isn't a fast way to make friends.

Art Eatman
January 6, 2010, 09:47 PM
Sheesh! Five pages. Necrothreadia. Round and round. Gettin' personal...

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