Combat shotgun or rifle?


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30mag
July 15, 2009, 04:20 PM
I have an adequate assortment of sporting rifles and shotguns.
A 12 gauge Rem 1100, Mossberg ATR-100 .30-06, Remington 742 Woodsmaster in .30-06, and a Marlin 60.
I feel that I have a sort of hole in my armory.

I'm looking for a sort of combat shotgun or rifle. I really feel that I need more of a rifle than a shotgun.
I'm not looking to spend over a thousand dollars, and don't want anything chambered in .223/5.56.

I like the idea of a carbine chambered in .40 or .45ACP.
Thoughts?
Comments?

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jhco
July 15, 2009, 04:29 PM
Well you could get a shotgun and have both as you could us shot shells or slugs
or you could get a 556 caliber rifle and have a fine combat rifle
or you could get a 40 or 45 carbine and have a fine HD/ truck rifle for short range.
It all depends on what you really want to use it for. For me a shotgun is somewhat of a short range weapon even with slugs so you might be more inclined to go with a 556 rifle

Deckard
July 15, 2009, 04:36 PM
It depends on what you need it for. If you need something more for home defense its hard to go wrong with the shotgun. If you want something more versatile with a longer reach for when the SHTF go with a carbine. I'd suggest an M1 Carbine, and if you have reservations about .30 carbine's stopping power there are new manufacture carbines in .45 WinMag.

goon
July 15, 2009, 05:24 PM
Anything wrong with an AK?
Also, you might look around for a Ruger PC40. I've shot the PC9 and it was a reliable gun that did what it needed to do.

middy
July 15, 2009, 05:33 PM
What's wrong with .223? I'd much rather have an m4 than be lobbing .45 acp from a carbine.

I'm sure spec ops could carry tommy guns if they wanted to... but they don't.

Zoogster
July 15, 2009, 05:45 PM
I'm sure spec ops could carry tommy guns if they wanted to... but they don't.
Making a decision based on what the military carries is a poor idea.
Thier decisions are ususaly based more on logistics and weight concerns of the ammo than the most effective platform and caliber once actualy in a firefight.
They can also produce a whole lot of 5.56 rounds with minimal brass and lead. They are concerned with and computing things that make no difference to you. If fact the original adoption of the 5.56 round was because tactics at the time of development called for select fire bursts of walking fire, and the round had minimal recoil under such conditions.
They have many criteria to consider that causes them to choose a platform or caliber worse in some catagories because it is better in others that are not even a concern for someone defending thier home.

For example, the .223 makes a lot of sense if you are going to be hiking around with it, and want to carry enough ammo for an extended firefight.
If however you are primarily in a vehicle or home, how many hundreds of rounds you can carry for hours or days without fatigue is a much lower concern. How many rounds your factory can create with a given quantity of copper, zinc, and lead, is not even a concern.

If your vehicle or your home is going to be carrying the ammo and not your lower back then why limit yourself with the puny round? You have much more effective choices available to you.

The "spec ops" you mention on the other hand may need to hike for days, swim, and do many things with all the ammo they are carrying before engaging in a firefight requiring hundreds of rounds.

Seenterman
July 15, 2009, 05:46 PM
From a city slicker . . .
Get a Mossburg 500.

Get a 12G pump shotgun. Slugs and 00 Buck for HD.
* I dont know what action the Rem 1100 is so you may already have a pump gun.

I wouldn't run an AK for HD, considering over penetration issues but if you live alone in the country side this wouldn't be an issue for you.

I would consider an M4orgery with a 16' barrel as a good HD weapon since .223 isn't a high power round and would have less penetration vs an AK but has no problem stopping violent humans. Especially with hollow point or soft nose ammo.

I wouldn't want to run a .40 or .45 carbine just get a pistol in .40 or .45. Not very much added benefit considering the extra weight and the fact you must use both hands to control the weapon. If you want to run pistol calibers get a pistol, I would recommend the Mossburg first and the AR second.

IdahoLT1
July 15, 2009, 07:02 PM
Hornady has their TAP line of ammo for the .223 which is very good for HD IMO. It reaches its greatest cavity size around 3-4" and only penetrates 10-12" in ballistics gel.

Heres their .55gr. bullet performance:
http://i25.tinypic.com/25g9ukg.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/2j3jold.jpg

If you go with a pistol caliber carbine, the greatest benefit is having a pistol that uses the same mags(like the Beretta 92/CX4 combo or PX4/CX4 combo). Most combat pistols have an effective range between 25-50yds but a pistol caliber carbine can double or triple that range while using the same platform/ammo.

But its hard to beat a shotgun with an 18" barrel. If you go that route look into a semi auto shotty. Personally, i like them alot better. Some will say they arent as reliable but under stress, its just point and shoot. A human under stress might short cycle their shot gun and jam it. Plus, they will reduce the amount of felt recoil, some more than others depending on if its gas operated or recoil operated. Good and relatively inexpensive models to look at are the Stoeger 2000 and the Mossberg 930. Both should run between $450-$500. If you want to spend $800-$1200 or more, the Remington 11-87 tactical shotgun and the Benelli M4 are the best choices, IMO.

CoRoMo
July 15, 2009, 07:08 PM
If you are going to go with one of those two calibers, forget about .40

Otherwise, I'd only recommend a rifle cartridge for a rifle. 5.56mm or 7.62mm.

redneck2
July 15, 2009, 07:19 PM
I feel that I have a sort of hole in my armory.
You have a lot of holes in your "armory". I wouldn't consider four guns an armory. I wouldn't consider it a start.

Unless you have pistols you haven't listed, I'd get a .45 acp or equivalent. Idiots here will get into all kinds of pi$$ing matches. Revolver, semi-auto. Just get something. 9mm, .40, .44, .45, whatever. Doesn't matter.

Next, I'd get a short barrel for the Remington. You don't need ghost sights, tactical rails, etc. Get a plain 18" barrel and some buckshot.

Then I'd get a press and learn to reload to feed the rifle and pistol.

After that, I'd get an AK or SKS...or, get a carbine in the same caliber as the pistol. Actually, Hi-Point carbines are pretty good for the money. I worked in a gun shop and we almost never had problems with them.

HTH

THE DARK KNIGHT
July 15, 2009, 08:20 PM
IMO you should get an AR-15/M4gery or an "AK" in 7.62x39 or 5.56

Or how about a Saiga 12? Convert it to pistol grip configuration and you've got a 12 gauge AK.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=101622&stc=1&d=1247699966

cchris
July 15, 2009, 08:29 PM
S12 would be a good choice, or for under $1k you could get a tactical daly and fix it up.

hso
July 15, 2009, 11:26 PM
The only reason I can see in getting a pistol caliber carbine is if it ran on the same magazines/ammo as my primary pistol.

OTOH there are plenty of carbine options that you can select that will shoot 7.62X39 that will give you better range and be harder hitting than any pistol round from any carbine (outside of exotic critters like TCs).

BTW, I have a 9mm KelTec that uses Glock mags, a .357 lever gun and a Camp Carbine in .45. Would I pass up my AK or SKS or AR to grab one instead? Not hardly. Why do I have them? Because the idea intrigued me.

crazy-mp
July 16, 2009, 01:36 AM
+1 for the .30 carbine.

But if you really want a gun chambered in .40 I would get a Kel Tec Sub 2000 in .40. Most of them use the Glock handgun magazines so you can get 10, 15 or even 29 round magazines.

-some don't like Kel Tec-

The .45 would be nice except for you will probably have to have a single stack magazine, unless you can find a Hi-Point rifle in .45 I have never seen one but I am told that they do exist.

Or you could get a lever action .357 mag, or a lever action .454 either way, that would give you an excuse to get a handgun in that caliber in the future :D

usmarine0352_2005
July 16, 2009, 02:24 AM
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/usmarine0352/ShotgunRifle.jpg

Officers'Wife
July 16, 2009, 07:42 PM
Split the difference? My husband likes to shoot rifled slugs out of my SAIGA 410. Although not as accurate, with slugs it is for all intents and purpose a 40 caliber. It doesn't do too bad with #2 shot either.

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