Private sales question


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TheVeteran
July 15, 2009, 08:00 PM
Hello THR,

I am a long time browser and not-so-often poster on this site. Lately I've been becoming something of a collector and I had a real sweet deal come up for a S&W 40. I would like to purchase it for my father before I deploy to Iraq, but here are the messy details.

He is a private citizen (soldier) as am I, and we're both stationed in Ft.Bliss, Texas. I am going on leave on 25July09 and would like to have the weapon shipped to father's house (or gun store near my father's house) in Pennsylvania ASAP. How can we legally do this transaction? Do we need a 3rd party FFL to mail the piece to Pennsylvania or only to receive it? If not, can this be done through the post office and how much would this cost?

Much thanks in advance,

The Veteran

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mgkdrgn
July 15, 2009, 09:32 PM
1) Only an FFL can ship a handgun via the post office

2) The transaction in PA must involve an FFL on that end.

3) The cheapest way to ship to PA will likely be via an FFL on the originating end, as they can ship (cheaply) via the post office. Also, not all FFL's will accept a gun shipped by a non-FFL.

Thank you and your dad for your service, and best wishes for your upcoming tour. I hope I answered your questions.

Uncle Mike
July 15, 2009, 10:23 PM
1) The seller will have to ship the firearm to an FFL in PA, who will then do a background check on your father, before your father can have the gun... your father must pass a background check.

In essence, the seller is going to sell the firearm to the PA dealer, then the PA dealer is going to sell the firearm to your father. Work out the deal with the PA dealer.

2) the seller must obtain a copy of the FFL's license.

3) the seller can ship the firearm by any method, providing the carrier allows it.
UPS and FedEx will require the seller to ship overnight air for a handgun, the post office will not. Pay the extra and ship UPS... trust me. Post office...NO!

Make sure the seller gives you a receipt with the description of the firearm and serial number on it, a statement from the seller stating that the seller certifies the said firearm is not stolen, loaned, borrowed, broken ect...

That's it... have fun!:D

MisterPX
July 16, 2009, 08:49 AM
Find a FFL in PA that will do a transfer. Pay your buddy, get the pistol. Get the seller's FFL #, verify address. Ship pistol via UPS/FedEx/Etc to PA FFL. Your father goes to PA FFL, fills out paperwork, gets pistol.

peyton
July 16, 2009, 09:12 AM
Why don't you buy it, put it in your checked bag, fly home, give your dad a present and leave all the shipping nonsense out of the deal.

nalioth
July 16, 2009, 09:41 AM
Folks, what part of
and we're both stationed in Ft.Bliss, Texas.
is hard to understand?

Last I looked, you just didn't take time off from Uncle Sam's army to go jet-setting. . .

mgkdrgn
July 16, 2009, 12:43 PM
I guess after reading this again, I have a couple of questions:

1) Where is the gun now?

2) What is your legal state of residence?

3) What is your father's legal state of residence?

4) Where is your father now?


Hello THR,

I am a long time browser and not-so-often poster on this site. Lately I've been becoming something of a collector and I had a real sweet deal come up for a S&W 40. I would like to purchase it for my father before I deploy to Iraq, but here are the messy details.

He is a private citizen (soldier) as am I, and we're both stationed in Ft.Bliss, Texas. I am going on leave on 25July09 and would like to have the weapon shipped to father's house (or gun store near my father's house) in Pennsylvania ASAP. How can we legally do this transaction? Do we need a 3rd party FFL to mail the piece to Pennsylvania or only to receive it? If not, can this be done through the post office and how much would this cost?

Much thanks in advance,

The Veteran

nalioth
July 16, 2009, 01:17 PM
mgkdrgn, I can answer some of that.

They're both legal residents of Texas. They are also both legal residents of [wherever they've listed their "home of record" with the military (usually where they signed on from)]

dogtown tom
July 16, 2009, 01:24 PM
Uncle Mike: ... Pay the extra and ship UPS... trust me. Post office...NO!

Why do you say this?

Out of the last four hundred firearms I've received, the boxes with the worst damage are delivered by UPS. They are also the only ones to "misplace" three AR15's.

In my experience, getting a claim settled with the Postal Service was easier than UPS.

Frank Ettin
July 16, 2009, 04:17 PM
Why do you say this?...It's a federal felony to mail a handgun unless you're an FFL.

dogtown tom
July 16, 2009, 05:18 PM
fiddletown Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom
Why do you say this?...

It's a federal felony to mail a handgun unless you're an FFL.

I know, I'm a dealer.

I wanted to know why he preferred UPS over USPS.

Many dealers (like me) will gladly mail your firearm for a modest fee. With 2nd day air going for $50-60, paying an FFL to mail it can save you a substantial amount. (for example: I ship firearms for $10 plus actual postage & insurance) Using Priority Mail you looking at about $25 for a handgun (depending on insurance) and about $30 for a long gun.

waterhouse
July 16, 2009, 06:24 PM
A lot will depend on the policies of the dealer you are shipping to. Some won't accept from non-dealers, some will. You say your father is stationed with you. If it will be a while before he can pick it up, make sure the receiving dealer knows this. Some dealers don't want to store a gun for more than a week or so before it gets picked up. Some will hapily store the gun for a year. You just have to ask around and find a dealer that meets your needs.



I wanted to know why he preferred UPS over USPS.

I'm curious as well. USPS tracking isn't as good as UPS or Fedex, but I've used USPS to ship hundreds of handguns and I receive a couple a day from USPS. No complaints on the service.

Uncle Mike
July 16, 2009, 09:56 PM
Uncle Mike: ... Pay the extra and ship UPS... trust me. Post office...NO!
Why do you say this?

Out of the last four hundred firearms I've received, the boxes with the worst damage are delivered by UPS. They are also the only ones to "misplace" three AR15's.

In my experience, getting a claim settled with the Postal Service was easier than UPS.

It's a different story depending on the location I suppose, we have had the worst luck getting handguns using the post office. The last several CDNN shipments were lost... yup, the good ol' USPS.

As for UPS, they just plain ol' suck most of the time, I do agree with you that boxes arrive looking like UPS drug them behind the truck, instead of the box being on the truck. And what's up with the drivers lately....

We have had fairly good luck with FedEX(knock on wood) in our southern store but terrible luck in the northern shop.... I don't know, I think they ALL could be better... do you guys use DHL any?

I don't advocate any one shipper is better than the other...guess it depends on location, time of year and what your shipping.

dogtown tom
July 17, 2009, 12:45 AM
Uncle Mike Quote:... do you guys use DHL any?

DHL shut down its domestic delivery services last January. I believe they still do international.

mgkdrgn
July 17, 2009, 01:34 PM
mgkdrgn, I can answer some of that.

They're both legal residents of Texas. They are also both legal residents of [wherever they've listed their "home of record" with the military (usually where they signed on from)]

Well, if they are "legal residents" of TX, then there is no way an FFL in PA is going to hand over a hand gun to either of them there. They are going to have to take possession in their state of residence. What they do with it after that is their own concern.

waterhouse
July 17, 2009, 02:01 PM
Well, if they are "legal residents" of TX, then there is no way an FFL in PA is going to hand over a hand gun to either of them there.

It is just like he said it is. You can be a legal resident of two states at the same time. The instructions on the 4473, under question 20.a, states:

. . . For example, if a U.S. citizen has two states of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver's license issued by State Y and another government issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address. If the buyer is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty . . . etc. etc.

People like college students and people in the Armed Forces typically have a state of residence where they live when they are away from home and a state of residence where their home is. The ATF allows these people to purchase handguns in either of their states of residence.

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