M1 Garand 8mm conversion


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navyman2015
July 16, 2009, 02:30 AM
While I am somewhat familiar with the Garand (Love the NM that goes to the range quite frequently!), I'm looking to toy around with the idea of converting to a different caliber. I already own an M1A, so the natural choice is something that falls right in between...let's say the 8mm Mauser cartridge. Dependable, reliable, ballistics akin to both the 30-06 as well as the venerable.308 yet at a current price that beats them both hands down. So am I crazy, or does this sound like a nifty little project to create a range gun that is not only less expensive to shoot but still maintains, albeit roughly, the characteristics of this great battle rifle. Anybody know of an individual or company that can do this kind of work? I would greatly appreciate any feedback!

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rondog
July 16, 2009, 02:59 AM
Sacrilege! Blasphemy!

Deckard
July 16, 2009, 03:12 AM
Sacrilege! Blasphemy! Here, here! But on a practical note, would 8mm mauser even fit in the Garand's en bloc clips?

jim in Anchorage
July 16, 2009, 03:13 AM
Unpatriotic.

Flea
July 16, 2009, 03:15 AM
Think of what the conversion would cost vs. how much ammo you could buy and you'd be shooting a LOT to cover that ground.

Deckard
July 16, 2009, 03:17 AM
Crimethink.

dmazur
July 16, 2009, 03:24 AM
McCann Industries has done Garand conversions in the "up" direction to .338 Win Mag and .458 Win Mag (!)

http://www.mccannindustries.com/rifles/rifles.html

AFAIK the Garand has also been converted "down" to .270 Win, .308 Win and .243 Win.

The 8mm base dimension is the same as the .30-06, so the en-block clip should work as well as it does with the other conversions listed above.

However, as the 8mm is so similar to the .30-06 in ballistics, I suppose a valid question would be, "Why 8mm?"

Is surplus ammo in 8mm that cheap?

Trebor
July 16, 2009, 04:23 AM
Before you do this, price out surplus 8mm, price out the cost of the conversion, and then price out .30 - '06 from the CMP. I bet you'll find that you really won't be saving that much money at all.

And then, what do you do when the surplus 8mm *totally* dries up? It's already not as available as it was a few years ago.

j-easy
July 16, 2009, 04:43 AM
not to mention the value of your garand would take a hit

oldgold
July 16, 2009, 09:25 AM
Be cheaper to buy a Halim or FN-49 than convert a Garand. ...Heck,,, You could buy both for the price of the conversion you are talking about.

First problem your conversion will have is geting someone to make a barrel in 8mm to garand specs. Good luck finding someone willing to take a chance on liability concerns alone. Then all you would have to do is install the barrel, finish ream, and then sort out the gas port. Then hope the gas pulse necessary to operate the garand action is consistant through all the different 8mm types of ammo not to tear up the rather fragile Garand op rod.

Yes, it could be done,,,,,,I'd just buy a Hakim.

Tim the student
July 16, 2009, 10:19 AM
Crimethink

I think its double plus ungood.

GBExpat
July 16, 2009, 10:45 AM
...So am I crazy, or does this sound like a nifty little project ...

:scrutiny: Neither ... but this being THR, I must leave it at that.

10X
July 16, 2009, 11:00 AM
This has been done a long time ago. They were not very successful.

An 8mm Mauser round is the same head diameter as 30-06 and would fit the receiver and en bloc clips without issue. I don't recall if the front of the receiver needs to be opened up for the wider bullet width. Most 8mm surplus uses a 192 grain bullet. That is very heavy for an M1. There would have to be a lot of testing to keep the operating rod velocity under control. I am not sure where you would find an 8mm M1 barrel these days. 8mm surplus may not be loaded with the correct powder for proper M1 cycling. Who knows what they are loaded with.

The 30-06 is a superior cartridge to the 8mm in both accuracy and other performance. It is the most powerful non magnum 30 caliber. I really don't see the benefit and I see a lot of problems trying to get the thing to work. Even if it does, what do you have then? A FrankenM1 that you couldn't sell without putting it back to original.

offthepaper
July 16, 2009, 11:25 AM
Noooooooooooo

krs
July 16, 2009, 11:33 AM
First problem your conversion will have is geting someone to make a barrel in 8mm to garand specs

+1

IF (BIG if) you could find an unchambered Garand-cut blank with a .321"-.322" bore it could be done. The two are about the same overall length so it'd feed, and as someone said the boltface would be compatible, but even with ammo prices down NOW (it won't last) you'd need to fire an awful lot to balance off the cost of the work and with such similar cartridges the question is "Why?"

The rifle would be considered a bubbagun and unsellable for much if you ever wanted out of it and you'd be the object of derision by friends and strangers wherever you took the gun.

And then there's that liability bugaboo. If anything should ever happen to hurt anyone you'd be poor for the rest of your life.

Schofield3
July 16, 2009, 11:36 AM
Just throwing this in for thought too;
with idea of converting so as to save money by firing surplus ammo keep in mind that practically all 8mm surp is corrosive as can be. With that said if you take the proper cleaning methods & clean the corrosive stuff right away you’ll be fine using surplus...

longdayjake
July 16, 2009, 11:51 AM
I like the idea. Even though it is impractical and unpatriotic, it would be fun. I disagree with the following The 30-06 is a superior cartridge to the 8mm in both accuracy and other performance.

The 8mm is as good or better than the .30-06 in performance and accuracy, it just doesn't have the selection of hard hitting factory ammo and bullets that the .30 cals do. Those that handload for the 8mm know what it is capable of.

navyman2015
July 16, 2009, 06:01 PM
Just getting info from more informed and knowledgable individuals than myself. Please don't think it's "unpatriotic" of me to consider this, but rest assured the M1A and NM Garand hold a place of prestige both in the safe and in my heart. Everyone has made some very valid points and made me consider a lot that I had previously glossed over. Thanks! Will let you know if I decided to go ahead with this project.

dirtyjim
July 16, 2009, 07:28 PM
i think douglas has made 8mm garand barrels in the past & any barrel maker that makes replacement garand barrels will make you one in just about any bore size you want.
i think an easier option would be to have a used barrel rebored then ream the neck & throat. they usually like to go up two sizes but it may clean up on a 8mm, then you could have a 8mm-06. a 338-06 or a 35 whelen on a garand would be neat too. you could also go the opposite direction & have the barrel lined for a 22-250 or something similar. modify the gas system & op rod similar to the ones on McCann Industries rifles.

there are plenty of put together rifles out there that would be prefect for a project like this. contrary to popular belief every garand isn't a prime collector piece that shouldn't be modified.

Maverick223
July 16, 2009, 08:11 PM
McCann Industries has done Garand conversions in the "up" direction to .338 Win Mag and .458 Win MagAny idea on the cost of such a rifle? Particularly the .458WM...looks nice...too nice. :)

dmazur
July 16, 2009, 09:01 PM
The McCann site shows the cost of the .458 Win Mag Garand as $3500 plus shipping plus a rifle in good condition.

So, depending on how you value the "project rifle", you're looking at $4000+.

Quite an investment...

Cosmoline
July 16, 2009, 09:11 PM
Ditto buying a SAFN. It's like an improved Garand in 8x57JS.

The .30'06 *can* be loaded to near .300 WM levels, and because it has more capacity it *can* be made more powerful than the 8x57JS. HOWEVER, the .30 ball ammo fired from the Garands is less powerful than the 8x57JS. It's downloaded to avoid bending the rod.

Avenger
July 16, 2009, 10:20 PM
A Schuster valve solves the hot load/op rod issues. The only issue I can see is that the supply of INEXPENSIVE ammo is limited. Surplus .30-'06 is available en masse (and en bloc, couldn't resist :neener:) and is more-or-less a default cartridge choice for just about all of the manufacturers. 8mm surplus is becoming more limited, and there are not as many companies making new ammo.

BTW add .25-'06 to the chambering list.

Maverick223
July 16, 2009, 10:25 PM
Quite an investment...Yeah...not so interested now. Pardon my ignorance, I missed the price guide (right there in the site)...thanks for the info. :)

jpwilly
July 16, 2009, 11:14 PM
If you stick with 308 or 30-06 based brass You can have barrel made at a reasonable cost for your M1 and shoot whatever pills you like. Tune the gas system with an adjustable gas plug. Plus if you ever wanted to go back to 30-06 you screw back on the right barrel.

I'd say the 8mm is out.

Maverick223
July 16, 2009, 11:38 PM
For all intents and purposes just stick with .30-06 in the Garand and get a different gun for something larger. The .458WM was appealing because it is a dangerous game cartridge in a semi-automatic rifle, but is very much cost prohibitive...as I am certain the cost of a 8mm Mauser conversion will be. :)

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