.223 vs 243 for doe hunt in Idaho


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BENELLIMONTE
July 16, 2009, 01:09 PM
I cut and pasted from my response to another thread on "best deer rifles". I am curious if any body else has input on this. My neuro-surgeon advised against me shooting my "big boomers" for another 9 months or so.

"Another doe mule deer tag in Idaho. I will be status post (6 months) C5-C6 neck fusion in October. Therefore I am either leaning towards an old but rarely used Savage 111 in .223 Remington. If I go that route I will stick with the Federal Premium 55grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. I will also consider my Remington model 700 ADL in 243 Win. I would be using Federal Premium 95grain Nosler Ballistic Tip".

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ArmedBear
July 16, 2009, 01:17 PM
I was on the way home from Montour WMA where I'd been pheasant hunting. There was an abandoned melon field along the road. In it was a large herd of these... big... animals.

I stopped the Jeep and looked. They were Mulies. Does, some of them. A lot more girth than I'd been used to, in drier climes far to the south.

While there are guys here who insist that the .223 is just fine for deer hunting, they tend to come from places where deer are tiny, skinny animals. I wouldn't choose a .223 here.

Between the two cartridges, I'd go with .243, and a bullet that retains its weight.

Legionnaire
July 16, 2009, 01:22 PM
.243 IMHO ... personally the smallest cartridge I'd use on deer, especially a Mulie.

BENELLIMONTE
July 16, 2009, 01:23 PM
ARMEDBEAR,
Thanks for the input. Is that unit the around Sweet-Ola road? I think it's #32.

ArmedBear
July 16, 2009, 01:27 PM
Yes it is.

Deer were on private land, right along the road into the WMA.

Field was for sale. Had I known that "For Sale" meant "We're abandoning our crop!" I would have been up to my eyeballs in watermelons last Fall...:D But they did feed the local deer herd, anyway.

Gaiudo
July 16, 2009, 01:29 PM
another vote for .243. Those mid-range .20 centerfire cartridges will do great.

BENELLIMONTE
July 16, 2009, 01:32 PM
ARMED'
There are a few "access yes" areas around there. You will get into Deer, Elk (late season), Chukars, Huns, Quail and a few Pheasant if you hunt those areas.

ArmedBear
July 16, 2009, 01:37 PM
Thanks -- I'll have to look into the Access Yes areas. F&G flags that whole unit as "very limited access" I believe, so I didn't look further except for the WMA.

Where the heck are the Huns?:)

Maybe I misidentified some birds I saw there. Never hunted the things so I wasn't sure what I was looking for, and field guides are notoriously bad at showing pictures of flying birds as a hunter might see them.

BENELLIMONTE
July 16, 2009, 01:50 PM
On hiway 52 between Montour and hiway 55 if you can access the hills there are huns interspersed in with the chukars. Be carefull if you are hunting with a dog; that country is known for having rattlesnakes!

ArmedBear
July 16, 2009, 01:58 PM
Thanks again.

My dog has been vaccinated. It's ME I'm worried about.:)

That said, I've been hiking all over the place, nearly always with a J-frame loaded with snake shot, and I haven't seen any rattlers. A trail here or there, but no snakes.

The opposite of deer... If you go south and dry, you'll see big rattlers routinely, whereas deer are small and rare.:D

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 16, 2009, 02:13 PM
Why are we limited to those two bullets?

I'd use the .243 with a stronger bullet - a Hornady SST, Sierra Gameking, Speer HotCor, or a premium bullet. 90 grains or heavier.

but the 55 Trophy Bonded Bear Claw will likely penetrate as good or better than the 95 Nosler B.T., so between those two, whichever one you shoot more accurately with.

IdahoLT1
July 16, 2009, 03:32 PM
For Idaho Muley's, i wouldnt have anything less than a .243. Even then, its on the smaller side, IMO. You might have an easier time against a doe white tail using a .223, but personally, the largest animal in idaho i would use a .223 on would be a pronghorn.

ArmedBear
July 16, 2009, 05:11 PM
Tad-

You really figure an SST to be stronger than a Nosler BT?

I'm loading SSTs myself for this season. I just thought the SST and the NBT are very similar designs. Are they a lot different?

natman
July 16, 2009, 05:32 PM
I would use the 243 with a deer bullet. 100 grain Partition, Barnes x-bullet, even a standard softpoint.

6mms are hard on bullets. You don't want to risk having the bullet expand too fast.

IdahoLT1
July 16, 2009, 07:25 PM
Tad-

You really figure an SST to be stronger than a Nosler BT?

I'm loading SSTs myself for this season. I just thought the SST and the NBT are very similar designs. Are they a lot different?

Im in the same boat as you. Im have some 165gr SST's and 165gr. accubond for my .308 and trying to decide which is better for muleys or elk(one, none both or neither).

From what ive been hearing is that the SST doesnt hold up so well and has been fragmenting inside the animal. I dont want to dig out a bunch of lead alloy and copper jacket. Im thinking it might be suitable for an up close, neck shot, but i guess im gonna find out this season. The Nosler accubond has had a lot of good reviews from my research on the site.

BENELLIMONTE
July 16, 2009, 07:42 PM
Idaho'
I normally hunt Idaho muley bucks and cow elk with my 270 Tikka T3. The bullet I have had the best performance with the Federal Premium with 150 grain Nosler Partitions and Federal 140 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw High Energy load.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 16, 2009, 08:22 PM
Well, I ainno expert.... BUT, I did read a lot of reviews, and many many reviews of the Nosler Bal Tip were all the same - super explosive performance, which led either to a great review (no exit, but massive damage and DRT), or a poor review (blew up on the shoulder; no exit; poor penetration). The SST reviews were on the whole (with a few exceptions), strikingly different: almost everyone said that they expanded rapidly, yes, but also penetrated a lot and nearly always exited. The SST has the "interlock" which is little or nothing more than a cannelure I think, but which nevertheless helps quite a bit to hold the jacket with the core, relative to a bullet like the Nosler which has no such "interlock", IINM. But again, what do I know; just reading reviews at Midway and other places.

The accubond will undoubtedly penetrate further than the SST, as will any bonded bullet, but the SST certainly *appears* from the reviews to be a couple of degrees stronger/more penetrative than the Nosler BT - just talking small increments here - still both are in the same *general* class of being less penetrative / more explosive than a premium bullet.

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