Anyone using RG4895 Surplus powder


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hawmanai
July 16, 2009, 04:39 PM
Just saw that Wideners is selling Surplus Military Powder from Radway Green of Great Britain. It is as used in 7.62 x 51 (308) Radway Green ammunition.

Just seeing how it worked out for you.

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Lovesbeer99
July 17, 2009, 12:15 AM
Given that I can't find IMR 4895, I'd try it if I could find some load data.

Anyone have load data for this stuff?

USSR
July 17, 2009, 08:52 AM
If it's a 4895 burn rate powder, simply start at the minimum charge weight listed for IMR4895 and run it over your chronograph.

Don

evan price
July 17, 2009, 09:23 PM
Since fresh, new cannister powders suitable to interchange with 4895 are available for not a while lot more than this surplus rejected pulldown powder, I'll skip it, thanks.

DJW
July 17, 2009, 09:44 PM
Would you mind listing a few of the substitutes? It would be appreciated.
How do you know that Radway stuff was "rejected?" Just wondering.
Thanks, Dave

Lovesbeer99
July 18, 2009, 09:14 AM
I've seen H4895 available and I believe it's close to IMR. At least I'll be able to find published load data. I just can't remember where I saw it.
Maybe cabelas.

I'd also like to ask why any beleive the milsurp was rejected? Can you even sell rejected powder?

bobotech
July 18, 2009, 12:14 PM
I would say that using the term "rejected powder" is a misnomer. I doubt that ammo is rejected for bad powder but rather for visually damaged/defective reasons.

So they pull it apart for component value and dump all the powder into a vat.

That would be my guess anyway. I have been reading that lots of forum guys are extremely happy with this powder.

"rejected" as an adjective for this powder is like saying "sensible" gun control laws.

ArchAngelCD
July 19, 2009, 01:20 AM
Considering Surplus powder has always worked well for me in the past and can be had a a greatly reduced price I will continue buying it as long as it's available. It's too bad it's not priced at $70 for 10 lbs like surplus powders of the past. I haven't used this particular powder before but I will give it a try. (if I can scrape the money up to buy some before it's sold out)

Lovesbeer99,
You can't compare H4895 with any Surplus powder. While it's true H4895 was originally packaged by Hodgdon from surplus powder it's been a regular canister powder for many decades now. You will also pay regular retail prices for H4895 as you do for IMR4895. It's very close to IMR4895 but it produces slightly less pressures while delivering the same or similar velocities. If RG4895 is similar to either it will do very will.

bfoosh006
July 19, 2009, 05:30 PM
Evan Price, nothin' personal but.....
And you can get IMR or Hodgden 4895 8 lbers ,the same lot number and in stock right now, where?

Encoreman
July 20, 2009, 12:24 AM
I do know where there is 1lb cans of H-4895 for $19.29 per can. I will let this info out when I decide whether to buy it or this RG-4895. I know lots of guys that have used a lot of surpplus powder. My thinking is like the old adage a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. I would rather have 8lb. of RG-4895 and I continue to shoot or look at the computer for powder to load with. I would really like to hear from someone who has actually used this RG-4895. Thanks guys

evan price
July 20, 2009, 11:10 AM
I left out the "/"... surplus/rejected pulldown powder.

If it was suitable for loading RG would have used it. It was either RG reject powder (fail to meet spec) or else removed from surplus ammo demilled by UN accords.

As for substitutes-

My local gun store just got in a huge shipment of Hodgdon & IMR powders. Varget, H335, 4895, etc in 1# cans. Fresh, new production, canister powder. The pipeline is filling up again.

I guess my complaint is that surplus powder should not cost the same as new canister.
"Because it's there" isn't a good enough reason for me to buy some.

Of course I stocked up on Varget & H335 before the insanity.

Lovesbeer99
July 20, 2009, 08:43 PM
The Surplus does not cost as much as the cannister. The commercial powder is more expensive. The RG with shipping and haz mat is cheaper than the price of the cannister alone.

Anyway, cabelas has H4895 for just under 20.00 and is in stock.

I've read a few posts on the CMP website that this RG is good powder. I ordered mine today and I'll let you know when I get it.

bfoosh006
July 22, 2009, 03:41 AM
LovesBeer99, do you have a link to those posts, I'd like to read them.

TurboFC3S
July 22, 2009, 11:35 AM
I've shot a ton of Radway Green .308 and it's definitely good stuff ... I saw that powder on Wideners and was tempted, but have no problem getting H4895 so passed on it. If you can't find your regular .308 powder, I have no reservations saying powder pulled down from Radway Green ammo would be quality.

Lovesbeer99
July 23, 2009, 08:22 PM
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=608357

This is a pretty good post. There is an interesting one by StarMetal who claims to have had a conversation with a Guy from Hodgeden.

I can't find the post I previously read in CMP forums, but the gist is that it's good powder, can be used in a Garand, loads like IMR 4895 and not H4895, but it used to cost 75.00 for 8lbs so people are pissed.

I'm a big fan of the IMR powder but I can't find any and I need to shoot. The RG is still cheaper than buying milsurp ammo or worse (Russian Ammo) so I'll try it. As soon as IMR is available I'll pick that up again.

HandGunGeezer
August 15, 2009, 02:52 PM
I am on my 2nd 8lb cannister of RG 4895 from Widners. I live 18 miles away from their location, so I pick up my supplies from their shipping dock. (Saves the Haz Mat fees). I started out with LC once fired brass from my M1A, using CCI mil spec primers, I loaded 147gr bullet with 44.5 gr of the powder and got 2783 fps average velocities with that load. The with Serria Match King 168gr, used 41.5gr and got 2528 fps average. I have the same results using IMR 4895. I am ordering another 3 cans to put up with my stash of IMR-4895. I would reccomend it highly.

Marlin 45 carbine
August 15, 2009, 05:46 PM
does anyone know if Widener's has primers in stock? if so may be worth my time to haul bum over there on my m/c (across the mountain from me) to buy some and get in some sight-seeing too.

gandog56
January 7, 2010, 06:35 PM
Well, I grabbed 8 pounds of the stuff while Wideners still had it. Should have gotten a couple more. It worked well with every IMR 4895 recipe I ever used it with. Probably even burned a bit cleaner than IMR

counterclockwise
January 7, 2010, 08:35 PM
Thanks for the info. I also bought 8 lbs but have not used out of it yet.:)

rmaisonp
January 8, 2010, 12:33 PM
I've been using this stuff from widners for some time now and have gotten pretty good results with moderate loads for 308 and 35 rem.
I'm getting pretty spectacular muzzle flash though - easily visible in daylight and fabulous at dusk. Any comments? I'm not a very experienced loader but would think that powder is burning outside the barrel and therefore inefficient.

USSR
January 8, 2010, 03:26 PM
I'm getting pretty spectacular muzzle flash though - easily visible in daylight and fabulous at dusk. Any comments? I'm not a very experienced loader but would think that powder is burning outside the barrel and therefore inefficient.

There have been reports that it is a slower burn-rate powder than surplus IMR4895, which would account for increased muzzle flash.

Don

Clark
January 8, 2010, 03:42 PM
I got 32 pounds of Surplus pull down IMR4895 powder from Hi-Tech.

24 pounds of it was from the same bulk batch.
That bulk powder took me a while to figure that out to use H322 data, not IMR4895 data, to get the correct velocity as predicted by Quickload, in my cartridges; 223, 243. 257RAI, 6.5x55, 7x57mm, 30-30, 303B, 303S, 308, 30-06, 8x57, and 45/70.

If you are a cook book handloader, stick with canister powder, and leave the bulk powder to the military and hard core load developers.

Offfhand
January 8, 2010, 04:21 PM
I bought surplus IMR 4895 from Wideners a few years ago and have had great results using standard IMR4895 data. The chrono and target don't know if I'm using new or surplus and in fact the surplus is the favorite for my 6BR with Berger 105 gr bullets in my 600 yd bench rifle. Wish I had bought a lot more.

Lovesbeer99
January 8, 2010, 07:55 PM
I got 8 lbs from Widners in the summer and I tested it in my 8mm mauser loads. Just as good as the IMR. I could not tell the difference but it might have been a little cleaner actually.

I wish I'd bought more.

counterclockwise
March 24, 2010, 01:34 AM
Trying to back it into QuickLoad. I started with the IMR 4985 powder model, and changed KJ/Kg to 4000, and changed solid density to 1.68 to get to RG 4895 performance.

YMMV

Clark
March 24, 2010, 04:01 PM
counterclockwise,
Are your velocity predictions good?

Velocity we can measure 4 digits for great verification.
Pressure, most of us just get 1 digit equivalent with primer pocket growth.

medalguy
March 24, 2010, 08:50 PM
I've loaded a lot of the RG4895 powder in 7.62 x 51 and gotten very good results in ny M14. Yes there's more flash but it's not a problem for me. I have used 43.5 gr behind 147 gr FMJBT and I don't have the numbers in front of me but I think I got right at 2700 fps with that load. For casual plinking for my wife I load 42.0 gr with the same bullet. Functions the rifle fine. She likes the semi mode but not FA.:p

counterclockwise
March 25, 2010, 04:23 PM
That is why I am adjusting the energy density a bit. The predicted velocity using the IMR4895 model was higher than actual chronographed average of 5 I know we are admonished not to fool with powder characteristc files, but going from 4080 to 4000 kJ/Kg is only a 2% change and it fixed the velocity error.

The other thing I tweaked was starting pressure. My rounds are not crimped in, and the 168 gn projectile I am using has no cannelure, so I thought their standard 3856 should go down to about 1000 psi.

I left the other characteristics alone except solid density. I was trying to match beam scale weights and bullet lengths to % of case fill, which I had measured carefully using H20 and weight.

I wanted to get some feedback from others about the change to see if that was kosher. As you know RG4895 does not have a powder characteristic file. Its source is Radway Green pull which could have come from a bulk powder lot, not canister grade.

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