[WAGCEVP]

MI) Drive-by shooter saves teenage girl from pipe attack 10-22-03
Date: Oct 23, 2003 2:09 PM
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm16850_20031022.htm
Cops seek shooter who saved girl, 16
Wednesday, October 22, 2003
BY DAN SHINE AND BEN SCHMITT
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS

A man was beating a 16-year-old girl with a pipe Wednesday morning on
Detroit's west side.

Suddenly, the man was dead, shot several times by a passenger in a
passing car.

Police are looking for the driver of the car and the gunman, who might
not be a criminal suspect, but a much rarer species -- a drive-by
vigilante.

"Under certain circumstances, a citizen taking violent action to protect
themselves or others is warranted," said Detroit Police Cmdr. Craig
Schwartz of the major crimes division. "We need to know if these actions
are justified.'

The dead man was identified as Johnny
Donaldson Jr., 22, of Detroit. Police said he was swinging a metal pipe
at several women and girls at Northlawn and Plymouth at 7:45 a.m.

That's when the motorist, with the passenger next to him, rolled by in a
silver Pontiac. The driver stopped, and the passenger opened fire from
inside the car. Then, police said, the car might have driven over the
man.

Police were investigating Donaldson on
Wednesday evening and had no motive for the pipe attack.

Several children and adults suffered minor injuries from the pipe,
police said.
Police said they do not have a description of the two men.

"The information is that a girl was being violently assaulted at the
time of the shooting," Schwartz said. "We really need to talk to these
guys to get their side of it."

Anyone with information is asked to call Detroit police at 313-596-2260.

[Andrew Rothman]

Police are looking for the driver of the car and the gunman, who might not be a criminal suspect, but a much rarer species -- a drive-by
vigilante.


Um, no, Detroit Free Press, the term is "hero" or "concerned citizen."

vigilante: 1)One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.

[RocketMan]

Um, no, Detroit Free Press, the term is "hero" or "concerned citizen."

Maybe.
Maybe not.
We don't know yet.

[Quartus]

The possibility exists that these were gangers who saw a chance to nail an enemy ganger, and the fact that they saved the girl was only coincidence.

[Pilgrim]

"Who was that masked man?"

"I don't know, but I heard him say to his partner, 'C'mon Tonto, time to get the heck out of West Detroit."

[semf]

Police said they do not have a description of the two men.
Yes officer it was a 7ft tall blackman with red hair

[willyjixx]

Yes officer it was a 7ft tall blackman with red hair

Dennis Rodman???

[TallPine]

That's when the motorist, with the passenger next to him, rolled by in a silver Pontiac.
"Hi-Yo Silver, Away .....!"


(yes, I feel better now)

[Matt G]

See horrific crime.

Stop horrific crime by stopping [permanently] the horrific criminal.

Move away from horrific crime scene.
_________________________________

This frustrates the police investigating the crime, and pretty much no one else. :)

[Standing Wolf]

We really need to talk to these guys to get their side of it.

What so-called "side?" A violent criminal got what he had coming.

[geekWithA.45]

There are some plausible "shady" scenarios, some of which are dependent on local gun laws.

-Folks with prior felonies (and hence a motive to shutup) trying to do good.

-Honest folks who came by their arms via extralegal means.

-Honest folks who should have had their arms "unloaded/locked/in the trunk"

-yada yada yada

------------------
If it was Jersey, you could count on the gg's spending at least 10k and months in the slam while it was being sorted out.

[ElToro]

let me preface this with suggesting that flight usaully suggests guilt...

That being said,...

..."uhh hi, this is John Shmuckatelli, I'm the one that shot that guy beating that girl to death..."

"oh great come on down to the station house so we can "interview" you..."

"oh you mean, get arrested, post bail, be indicted, spend unkown X thousands of dollars i dont have defending myself and possibly going to the joint, full of big pipe hitters that would just as soon gang rape me ?"
click.
preferably from a pay phone

i dont advocate vigilantism per se... but geez, this guy caught this dude in the act and i'll bet my next paycheck that the shootee has a rap sheet as long as my arm

[444]

Yeah, it could have been a felon who saw his sister being beaten with a pipe. Or it could have been a business executive who has never missed church in his life and spends all his free time working at the local orphanage.

What matters is the result. A violent criminal was taken off the streets. If anyone called 911 prior to the shooting, the damage would have been done before they got there.

[CWL]

This is one of those times where I don't need to know who they are, witnesses should suffer amnesia, and police investigators should put at the bottom of their workload.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Maybe it was a sheepdog putting down a wolf amongst the flock.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[Tamara]

I can hear the dialogue at the Krispy Kreme right now:

Cop #1: "Wow, didja see we're supposed to be looking for the guy that zapped the loony with the pipe?"
Cop #2: "Yup. Crazy town. Damn shame when folks take the law into their own hands."
Cop #1: "Well, we'd better get to work finding him."
Cop #2: "Mm-hm. Pass me one of those chocolate-covered ones."
Cop #1: "Okay. Do you have the sports section?"

:D

[TheeBadOne]

origionally posted by TAMARA:

I can hear the dialogue at the Krispy Kreme right now:

Cop #1: "Wow, didja see we're supposed to be looking for the guy that zapped the loony with the pipe?"
Cop #2: "Yup. Crazy town. Damn shame when folks take the law into their own hands."
Cop #1: "Well, we'd better get to work finding him."
Cop #2: "Mm-hm. Pass me one of those chocolate-covered ones."
Cop #1: "Okay. Do you have the sports section?"

Actually, you're more likely to hear replies like what you've already seen in this thread.

JMHO

TBO

[BryanP]

Actually, you're more likely to hear replies like what you've already seen in this thread.

You mean like this? -

Cop #1 "Yessir boss, I'll be sure to spend lots of time hunting for this dangerous fugitive."

<sotto voice> "So I can shake his hand and buy him a drink."

[Tamara]

JMHO, TBO, but maybe you should read my post more carefully... ;)

(Hint: What would it imply if, right after saying "We should go find him," they then sat and continued to read the paper without moving?)

[TheeBadOne]

What I meant is that those cops are people too, with the same strong emotional feelings/responses that others have.

All the best

TBO

[Tamara]

I assume so.

I guess I missed all the "strong feelings" hoping this guy gets caught "in this thread."

Seems most folks here are saying "He got away? Wow, that's too bad..." :scrutiny:

This seems like, at worst, an NHI incident...

[Delmar]

Well, it wasn't an anti gun liberal, so that dismisses most of the population in Det-riot. Must've been sombody not from around here......:p

[LawDog]

Patrol

"Lieutenant, I've got 16 calls backing up on the MDT. I'll get right on looking for that guy as soon as I clear the log."

Investigations

"I'm currently working two domestic violence/murders, one aggravated sexual assault, and a string of convience store robberies. Put it in the stack."

Organized Crime/Gang Task Force

"Are you [bleep]ing me? We're up to our [bleep]ing gonads in 'gators here. You see that [bleep]ing stack of files right there? Those incidents don't get handled, some [bleep]ing kids are going to get [bleep]ing stupid on us. Are the [bleep]ing Crips going to bust caps at the [bleep]ing Latin Kings if this mook doesn't get found? Is anyone gonna start a [bleep]ing war if this don't get solved? No? Yeah, that's what I thought. We'll get riii-iight on it."

LawDog

"Did the shooter have the required 'Vermin' stamp on his hunting license? No? Hmm. If you find him, cite him for the 'Hunting From A Road' violation, cite him for 'Hunting Over Bait' and tell him to get the proper stamp for this sort of thing."

LawDog

[WAGCEVP]

This is one of those times where I don't need to know who they are, witnesses should suffer amnesia, and police investigators should put at the bottom of their workload.

AMEN!



Hey guys, hypothetical question just outa curiosity:

What would your response be had that 16 yr old girl been your daughter?
Would it matter who the savior of your daughter was?

[BluesBear]

What would your response be had that 16 yr old girl been your daughter?
Would it matter who the savior of your daughter was?
There are two quotes from The Good Book that stuck in my head at a very, very young age. (even before I started reading Guns & Ammo)

Vengence is Mine sayeth the Lord.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.


As an old country preacher once said, "Salvation is salvation. It don't matter none how ya get it."

Even Rattlesnakes and Black Widow spiders aren't all bad.

[TheeBadOne]

http://www.thehighroad.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

[semf]

Maybe Paul Kersey moved to that part of town.
Could be a possibility. Maybe these guys were part of the neighborhood vigilance commitee. Maybe they were a neighborhood gang protecting their turf or maybe this girl was one of their homegirls or he was her pimp tuning her up. Botom line to me is who really cares. Sounds like a case of misdemeaner murder at worst.

[jrhead75]

"Did the shooter have the required 'Vermin' stamp on his hunting license? No? Hmm. If you find him, cite him for the 'Hunting From A Road' violation, cite him for 'Hunting Over Bait' and tell him to get the proper stamp for this sort of thing." Yep! No limit on vermin either.

[Quartus]

:confused:


Where are some folks getting the idea that anyone here wants to see the shooter "caught"?


Weird.




BTW, Bluesbear, that second one ain't in The Book.

[KC]

Hehehe...first they shoot the beater, then they run him over? Class act.



oh wait. I mean...um...how horrible. That poor man, innocently beating a woman in the street. That could have been a wife, or daughter, or one of his working girls (or some combination of the above). What if he was from another country where that behavior is acceptable? It isnt right for us to impose our own system of ethics on foreigners who live in this country. After all, our ideas of right and justice are only as good, and maybe not even that, as those from other places ion the world.

What's worse, there was a civilian who took the law into their own hands. We all know this because Kofi Annan tells us so (like he told Tutsis in Rawanda); that force only belongs in hands of the State, not its subjects. This behavior is wrong, and the incorrigble vigilante should be punished even more severely than their victim (the one who was found beating another person with a piece of pipe before being heartlessly gunned down).

[ceetee]

Police said he was swinging a metal pipe at several women and girls at Northlawn and Plymouth at 7:45 a.m.

WAGCEVP had said it was "a 16 year old girl..."

Also:


Would it matter who the savior of your daughter was?

Yup. So I could start buying him drinks...

[JohnKSa]

In TX, shooting an attacker is legal regardless of whether the victim is you or someone else.

Given that the attack warrants the use of deadly force in the first place.

Hard to imagine that a man beating a girl with a pipe wouldn't qualify.

[2nd Amendment]

Description, Officer?

Umm, yes...

Uhhh...he was riding a white horse and had an injun with him...

Ahhh...

[kumma]

"Police said he was swinging a metal pipe at several women and girls at Northlawn and Plymouth at 7:45 a.m.

WAGCEVP had said it was "a 16 year old girl..."

from what i gathered from the local broadcasts this perp had been attacking people as they walked down plymouth road, it appeared upwards of 6 or 7 people. the news interviewed several victims both men and women. needless to say none of the seemed shocked or saddend that the perp was killed. it was just a matter of time before someone took him out. sure saved us local taxpayers some money.

[TheeBadOne]

...not to mention saving the local Cops from getting flamed if they responded and had to shoot him.

[clem]

"Police are looking for the driver of the car and the gunman, who might
not be a criminal suspect, but a much rarer species -- a drive-by
vigilante".


Ya, right, go ahead and turn yourself in...............

[Keith]

They are working on the theory that it was two white guys in a van with DC plates...

Keith

[Tag]

They are working on the theory that it was two white guys in a van with DC plates...

:D :neener:

[C.R.Sam]

Whatever the motive.
The result seems just.

Variation on the SSS philosophy.

Sam

[The Mayor]

Justice at the hand of an unknown hero, wishing to remain annonomys to the grateful public.

Although criminal charges may not happen, as soon as his name is known "Poor Little Johnnys" estranged family will try to get theirs in the civil court system.

BTW one of the victems is a friend of mine, the newspaper reported only minor injuries, how minor is it to a young woman to get pounded in the face with a pipe to the extent of breaking out teeth.

Hail the UNKNOWN hero.

[Tamara]

...not to mention saving the local Cops from getting flamed if they responded and had to shoot him.

Doesn't look like anybody here would've said squat if he'd been shot by Joe Sixpack, Johnny Law, or the Man In The Moon. :uhoh:

[TheeBadOne]

I'm not talking here, but in the city it occured and in the media. (where it counts)

[xenophon]

Well, I suppose by gunning and running, the guy avoided lawsuits by the "the estate of bad guy" and court crap. He also probably had priors, and feared getting locked up, even though I see what he did just fine.

x

[redneck2]

we oughta chip in and buy them some more ammo

[Brett Bellmore]

I suppose some of you have heard of the story of this guy in Detroit who was innocently beating a girl to death with a pipe, when a vicious criminal shot him dead, and then ran over his body.

Well, here's the Detroit Free Press's take on it:

Resist, for good reasons, the urge to cheer shooting (http://www.freep.com/voices/editorials/evig25_20031025.htm)

"Vigilante justice is the satisfying stuff of novels and movies. In real life, on real streets, it's dangerous and nothing to applaud.

Detroit police think they may be looking for a self-styled vigilante or two in the shooting death Wednesday of a man who was attacking people with a metal pipe on a west side street. Witnesses said the passenger in a car fired the fatal shots, and the driver then ran over the attacker's body as the pair fled.

There is a visceral instinct to cheer. An obvious wrong was quickly made right. Justice was served, without cops, courts, lawyers or judges getting involved. Saved the taxpayers a bundle, too. Charles Bronson, the macho actor who recently died, built a career on the fictional dispensation of such "street justice" for cheering audiences in his "Death Wish" movies. The title says it all; these creeps were asking for it, and they got it.

But when people really take the law into their own hands, setting themselves up as judge, jury and executioner, nobody is safe. One day's vigilante can easily be the next day's target for someone else with a different idea of justice. Pretty soon all hell is breaking loose.

It is understandable for citizens to become frustrated with "the system." But it's intended to work equally for everyone -- to punish bad people and to protect good people. Vigilantes work for themselves, measuring up to only their own standards, and that's what makes them more menace than hero."

Dang, at least the killer of Kitty Genovese wasn't interupted. :fire:

[El Tejon]

Geez, talk about ignorance in action.:rolleyes:

So when did they form vigalance committees in Dee-troIT?:rolleyes:

He's not a vigilantee. He allegedly shot in defense of others and may have screwed up by running away. If you act like food, you may be eaten. If you run like a criminal, you may be prosecuted.

I dislike Batmen as much as anyone, but still waiting to hear what this shooter did wrong???:confused:

[Brett Bellmore]

I can't say that he necessarilly did the wrong thing in fleeing. It depends on the particulars. In Detroit, being prosecuted under such circumstances, unless maybe you were an off duty cop, would be almost a given.

He might very well have been a criminal, illegally in possession of the gun. Even a criminal might have his heroic moments.

Or he could have not had a concealed carry permit for the gun.

I would have stuck around, but I can't really dismiss the decision to leave as foolish, lacking more info.

[Don Gwinn]

Could have been a felon, could have been an illegal gun. Maybe they just panicked.


But, no, the act of shooting a guy who is at that moment beating someone else to death is NOT vigilantism.

[Abenaki]

"There is a visceral instinct to cheer"

Always trust your gut feelings......usually they are right on!

Abenaki

[TheeBadOne]

I think what may be the insurmountable problem for them is if they did indeed drive over the body after shooting him. :scrutiny:

[Abenaki]

". One day's vigilante can easily be the next day's target for someone else with a different idea of justice. Pretty soon all hell is breaking loose"

Sounds like hell was already breaking loose and some one stopped it.


I say we take up donations and build a statue of the good guy that saved
a girls life!!!!!!!!

Abenaki

[Hutch]

It's pretty clear the author is deliberately trying to blur the line between personal defense and vigilantism. Nobody dragged a perp out of a jail and hanged him. The unknown gunman had the unsavory choice of "shoot the bastid" or watch him bludgeon someone, quite possibly fatally. If anyone with half a brain can't draw a meaningful distinction between those two scenarios, they ought to quit writing opinion pieces.

[greyhound]

Did the government rush forth with a spokesman to proclaim "We don't know who did it, but its not terrorism!".:rolleyes:

[Cal4D4]

Shooter took on the moral baggage of using lethal force against one to save another. Did his part for society. Hope the burden sits easy on him. Hope the city can complete all required paperwork without his input.

[tyme]

I have to agree.

Running over a guy with a pipe as the victims are running away doesn't sound like legit use of lethal force.

Hope the police don't find the culprit(s), though.

[TheeBadOne]

...of course some could argue why didn't they just yell and point their gun at the pipe weilding man? Or fire a warning shot?

:evil:

[Pilgrim]

The author probably hated the movies "Quigley Down Under" and "Open Range."

Pilgrim

[Dashunde]

It is understandable for citizens to become frustrated with "the system." But it's intended to work equally for everyone -- to punish bad people and to protect good people. Vigilantes work for themselves, measuring up to only their own standards, and that's what makes them more menace than hero."

This line really caught my attention... "But it's intended to work equally for everyone -- to punish bad people and to protect good people."

This unknown gunman is the one who did the protecting, not our system.

I suspect that the gunman may even be someone who knows one of the first people hit with the pipe farther up the street, he just happened to catch up to the pipe swinger whilst he was pounding on the 16 year old.

[Chris Rhines]

Here's a clue for the reporting profession: If you don't know what a word means, then don't use it in your friggin' article!

vig·i·lan·te (vj-lnt)
n.
1 - One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.
2 - A member of a vigilance committee.

A vigilante would have, upon hearing of the crime, tracked the pipe-wielding maniac down and either killed him or taken him into custody for the police. That ain't what happened, you putz. The shooter was riding by, witnessed a violent assault, and stopped it using the most expedient means at his disposal. Not the smartest thing to do, but certainly not illegal, and in no way 'taking the law into his own hands.'

Twit.

- Chris

[BluesBear]

If you recall, Paul Kearsey, Bronson's character in the Death Wish movies, became a true Vigilante. He went looking for people commiting crimes and then administered what he thought was justice.

I am not going to get into a "urinals at 20 feet" duel over wether, in my opinion, Kearsey was right or wrong, or good or bad.

That aside, it looks to me, from what I read in the original article, that this was a case of someone happening upon a crime in progress, deciding to do something about it and then deciding that what was done was done and that the fewer people that knew about their involvement the better.

Y'all know that the names of these two people would be splashed all over the media. Look at the guy in Chigaco, his life will be forever changed because of a split second decision he made during a BALLGAME!

Can you imagine what would happen to the two guys in Detroit?

Maybe they were two off duty semi drunk cops?
Maybe they were two guys who had just stolen the car they used to run over the ersatz plumber?
Maybe they were two Priests on their way to visit some sick and shut in people?
Maybe they were two ganstas?
Maybe they were two guy out on the town who didn't want their wives to know?
Maybe they had just escape from jail?
Maybe they were two pizza delivery guys who had to get the pie there in 30 minutes or lose their jobs?
Maybe it was Jimmy Hoffa and the guy from the Grassy Knoll?
Maybe it was two guys from THR?
Maybe it was just two regular guys who saw what they thought was a disgusting act and decided to do the right thing?
Maybe, maybe, maybe....

All I know is that is appears that, whoever they were, at least once in their lives they decided to do the right thing.
Now, after they did the right thing, was running away the right thing to do? I dunno. No one but them may ever know. But I don't care. They did what they did.

What I do hope is, that if it was my daughter, that someone would be there to do the right thing.

If these two guys decide to turn themselves in, that's fine with me. If they don't, that's fine with me too. I just think there are a lot better way to spend the tax-payers money than to go looking for these guys.


Just my tuppence.

[Stevie-Ray]

The possibility exists that these were gangers who saw a chance to nail an enemy ganger, and the fact that they saved the girl was only coincidence. In the words of Darrin McGavin in the movie Raw Deal, "As long as the right people keep getting killed, I don't give a s**t!"

[Quartus]

Yup.

[WAGCEVP]

(MI) Vigilantes went too far, police say 10-23-03
Date: Oct 27, 2003 1:21 AM
http://www.detnews.com/2003/metro/0310/23/d02-305333.htm
Vigilantes shoot man to death, police say Man, 22, dead; cops seek men
who rescued females at Detroit bus stop
By David G. Grant / The Detroit News

DETROIT -- Five men rescued a group of women and teen-age girls from a
pipe-wielding attacker Wednesday, but they went too far when they killed
the 22-year-old man, police said.

"The men apparently stopped the attack on the women. However, they went
too far after they caught him," said Homicide Lt. Bill Petersen.
"We are currently looking for these men."

The men could face murder charges, police said.

The incident began about 8 a.m. at a bus stop at Grand River and
Northlawn in northwest Detroit when a man police identified as Jeffrey
Donaldson Jr. attacked the women and teen-age girls with a 6-inch pipe
he had duct-taped to his hand and wrist, Petersen said.

The five teen-agers and woman, ages 16 to 51, told police that Donaldson
walked up and started hitting them with the pipe.

A passing car with five men in it saw the attack.
Two of the men jumped out and chased the man on foot while the other men
followed in the car.

Two blocks away at Plymouth and Northlawn, the two men on foot caught
the attacker in an alley. Witnesses said the man hit his pursuers with
the pipe and they tackled and wrestled him to the ground.

The three men in the car arrived and all five men started beating the
suspect. Then, police said, one of the men apparently shot

Donaldson in the chest. Witnesses said they heard a gunshot and the men
jumped back into the car and sped off.

One of the victims, a 16-year-old girl, is listed in good condition at
Sinai Grace Hospital. The other females, who suffered minor injuries,
were not taken to a hospital.

None of the women could provide investigators with a description of the
men or the vehicle in which they were riding.

Investigators said Donaldson had a minor police record.





:cuss: :banghead: :fire: :what: :barf:

[444]

As we figured from the beginning, the police initially said they wanted to talk to these guys to get their side of the story. Now they are facing murder charges.

I suspect this took place in what might be called a "bad" neighborhood. Why ? Because of this statement:"None of the women could provide investigators with a description of the men or the vehicle in which they were riding. " Most people would be running off at the mouth to try and gain their 15 minutes of fame. This usually doesn't apply to people from "disadvantaged" neighborhoods. For them the threat of violence is an everyday ordeal. It is not something they see on some BS television show, it is something they see in real life on a dialy basis. They realize these guys might have saved their lives and their lives are more important than 15 minutes of fame. They also probably know personally of the downside of cooperating with the "authorities". They realize from personal experience that the "system" usually works against you rather than for you.
Of course they went to far. The police would have done nothing.

[cordex]

...of course some could argue why didn't they just yell and point their gun at the pipe weilding man? Or fire a warning shot?
... and if any article is printed casting aspersions of any sort on the shooter, others could argue (or perhaps could not help themselves from arguing) that the newspaper probably doesn't have the full story. Or that their particular occupation somehow implies that they are far more likely to be in the right than "civilians". :)

We get your point, TBO, but for every kneejerk criticism of police actions I see a kneejerk defense.

From what I've heard about this story, the human race hasn't suffered a huge loss.
They ran over him on the way out? Perhaps a charge of jaywalking should be added to the dead man's record before it is shut.

[TheeBadOne]

Thank your for you posting a reply to my post (was skipped over 9 times before someone did ;))

[Quartus]

DFFT, cordex.

[glocksman]

Could the guy have been stoned on PCP? There are cases where PCP'd up individuals couldn't be stopped by several men. There's probably more to it than simply 5 guys beating the crap out of him and then shooting him in the nape of the neck Gestapo-style.


When dealing with this kind of situation, the Mafia Rule for Witnesses applies:

No matter what you saw, you saw nothing. ;)

None of the women could provide investigators with a description

No kidding. If some guy saved my life, do you think I'm going to help hang him out to dry?

[Andrew Rothman]

The second story has considerably different details than the first:

First: two people, shots fired from inside the car.The driver stopped, and the passenger opened fire from
inside the car. Then, police said, the car might have driven over the
man.

Second: five people, shots fired from outside the car.A passing car with five men in it saw the attack.
Two of the men jumped out and chased the man on foot while the other men
followed in the car.

Two blocks away at Plymouth and Northlawn, the two men on foot caught
the attacker in an alley. Witnesses said the man hit his pursuers with
the pipe and they tackled and wrestled him to the ground.

The three men in the car arrived and all five men started beating the
suspect. Then, police said, one of the men apparently shot

Donaldson in the chest. Witnesses said they heard a gunshot and the men
jumped back into the car and sped off.

[TheeBadOne]

origionally posted by Mpayne

A passing car with five men in it saw the attack.
Two of the men jumped out and chased the man on foot while the other men
followed in the car.

Two blocks away at Plymouth and Northlawn, the two men on foot caught
the attacker in an alley. Witnesses said the man hit his pursuers with
the pipe and they tackled and wrestled him to the ground.

The three men in the car arrived and all five men started beating the
suspect. Then, police said, one of the men apparently shot

Donaldson in the chest. Witnesses said they heard a gunshot and the men
jumped back into the car and sped off.

Looks like in the rush to pat the shooter(s) on the back, justice was swept asside. This was a good old fashioned murder! :eek:
I guess we really don't have to speculate on why they left now. :scrutiny: