Why so paranoid?


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OurSafeHome.net
July 17, 2009, 01:47 AM
Riddle me this: Why are so many internet-CCW guys sooooo paranoid about "printing" and/or having part of their more-or-less concealed weapon being seen?

The butt of my J-frame peeking out of my trouser pocket draws lots less attention than the butt of a young lady peeking out of her low-rise jeans...

In 20 years of carrying, only once has someone notified me that they could see my "round butt" (of my revolver!).

"Printing" is a far-cry from "flashing" and even farther from "brandishing".

So, why so paranoid?

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Lone_Sheep_Dog
July 17, 2009, 01:57 AM
I am paranoid about it. It is crazy how many people think only police and military should have guns. The sheep mentality is rampant these days. I believe sheep mentality is a result of so many people being educated in government run schools. Be careful or one of the sheep will make a big deal about it. I also don't like to attract attention. I don't need an unnecessary confrontation with some fool who saw my gun "printing."

Lone_Gunman
July 17, 2009, 01:59 AM
There really is not too much of a big deal to make out of it in Georgia.

bearmgc
July 17, 2009, 02:01 AM
On this issue, I am not paranoid.

chris in va
July 17, 2009, 03:47 AM
Some states require the gun to be completely concealed. TX and FL come to mind. Granted, printing wouldn't be considered brandishing, but could cause unwanted attention.

Otherwise you just don't want people to gawk at your sidearm if it's rather obvious you have one.

bubbaturbo
July 17, 2009, 04:56 AM
I guess I have the opposite viewpoint. Why do so many internet CCW guys seem so eager to print and/or make sure that at least part of their "concealed" weapons can be seen? Do they need others to know that they are "ready for anything" and can be called upon to protect the "sheep" if necessary? :rolleyes:

Dr. Fresh
July 17, 2009, 04:56 AM
I live in an open carry state. Other than certain areas/situations, I really don't care if my weapon is exposed.

MovedWest
July 17, 2009, 05:03 AM
In California concealed carry (if you're lucky enough to be granted CCW) means CONCEALED. If you print, you're open carrying. If you open carry a loaded firearm here you get arrested, charged with a felony, thrown in jail, have your home invaded and searched, spouse cuffed, and have all your weapons confiscated. Oh yeah, you get a spot on the 6 o'clock news, too.

Location, location, location, right? :rolleyes:

-MW

bootless
July 17, 2009, 05:31 AM
Moved West- agreed, CA is definitely a pain. Not too many ccw's issued in so cal. I get hassled when I'm hunting legally. If I run into anyone (hikers, cops, rangers, etc) they act as if my bird vest, scatter gun, and 8 shot is tactical gear and they think I preparing to rob a bank. Gun people are a rare bread here. Location is everything

loop
July 17, 2009, 07:01 AM
In some states if you are "made" it is considered brandishing, which is a crime. Fortunately, I now live in Arizona where such foolishness is not practiced. I used to live in Idaho. At the time if you were carrying concealed and were spotted as carrying a gun it was brandishing. It just depends on where you are and the laws in that place.

The Lone Haranguer
July 17, 2009, 07:10 AM
Why do so many internet CCW guys seem so eager to print and/or make sure that at least part of their "concealed" weapons can be seen?
I must have missed those, at least on THR.

In some states if you are "made" it is considered brandishing, which is a crime.
That sounds like a good reason to me.

Nuke8401
July 17, 2009, 08:42 AM
First year I carried I was paranoid, past 12 years not so much.
I carry concealed, which to me means no one knows I'm carrying, I don't use a partially exposed weapon to spark the interest of other as some do.

After carrying for a few years I realized 95% of the population is in condition "semi-conscious" meaning they wouldn't see a .50 cal barret under your shirt.

OurSafeHome.net
July 17, 2009, 09:07 AM
In some states if you are "made" it is considered brandishing

Where?

Many people think this, but where does it actually happen?

This is NOT the case in Florida, where I have been carrying for 20 years.

smktr8
July 17, 2009, 09:13 AM
1st I would rather see the girl with the low jeans;). Thats just my point of view I am just shocked I am the 1st one to say it.:what:
I also live in Mass wich has the thoughest gun laws in the United States and here if somone sees your gun wide open you might as well stole a baby because thats how you will be treated. I just keep my tee shirt untucked and im good cops have seen it and other people but only by mistake when I reach up or what ever the reason that makes my tee shirt go up. I have only been questioned one time with no problem.people who make such a big deal about it and try to hard to hide it are the ones people worrie about because they think somthing is wrong. People just need to relax thats all.

Just One Shot
July 17, 2009, 09:40 AM
I'm not paranoid but it is called concealed carry for a reason.

I'm not worried about the average Joe seeing my ccw, I just don't want to let the BG who may be planning something to know that I'm carrying.

I'd rather surprise him with the unknown than to have him know and devise a plan that might put me at a disadvantage.

bubbaturbo
July 17, 2009, 09:42 AM
I must have missed those, at least on THR.


Well that is puzzling.

sohcgt2
July 17, 2009, 10:32 AM
In 20 years of carrying, only once has someone notified me that they could see my "round butt" (of my revolver!).

I usually carry concealed, but I sometimes carry open. When I'm concealed only my spouse and I are aware and she only became aware recently (2-3 months). When I carry openly I have never had anyone speak to me about the gun on my hip. My poimt is in 20 years of carrying you have only encountered 1 person nosey enough to mention to you that your gun was exposed. You have likely encountered many others who have become concerned as to why the but of a gun was sticking out of your pocket and done the smart thing and removed themselves from the danger zone.

If you are going to carry concealed then conceal what you carry, otherwise carry open. Partially concealed carry just makes people nervous and draws unwanted attention from the anti-gun people.

Don't missread conscientious and responsible firearms handling as paranoid, and cover up your gun the next time you go out.

hso
July 17, 2009, 10:33 AM
Read some of the wisdom from SM about how bad guys looks for signs of who has what where on them.

JohnBT
July 17, 2009, 11:16 AM
"So, why so paranoid? "

It's not paranoia, it's sensible.

I would no more walk down the city streets here with 10 hundred dollar bills hanging out of my pocket than I would with a $1000 Rohrbaugh hanging out of my pocket. Or openly carried for that matter.

I don't want to be blindsided with a brick or 2x4 and robbed when it's just as easy to conceal the valuables.

John

Deanimator
July 17, 2009, 11:30 AM
In some places, "printing" is a crime.

In other places, like Ohio, open carry is perfectly legal.

A while ago, I inadvertently uncovered my firearm. A local cop threatened me with "inducing panic" and all of the other imaginary charges cops threaten people with when they don't like open carry. I didn't back down an inch. He had to return my gun and allow me to go. The Chief of Police got a letter (with copy to my lawyer) telling him that he needed to properly train his officers (naming the person in question) lest bad things happen.

Everybody should obey the law.

If the law prohibits display, you should obey that law.

If the law permits (or doesn't prohibit) open carry, the police should obey that law.

If either of you willfully violate the law, you shouldn't whine about the consequences, and there SHOULD be consequences, whether they're criminal prosecution for you or civil lawsuit against the cop(s) and the city.

christcorp
July 17, 2009, 11:41 AM
I guess I have the opposite viewpoint. Why do so many internet CCW guys seem so eager to print and/or make sure that at least part of their "concealed" weapons can be seen? Do they need others to know that they are "ready for anything" and can be called upon to protect the "sheep" if necessary?

Or they are very insecure people who want to feel important or special.

Sav .250
July 17, 2009, 11:44 AM
Out of sight....out of mind.

HKUSP45C
July 17, 2009, 11:49 AM
In some places, "printing" is a crime.

Where?

Deanimator
July 17, 2009, 11:58 AM
Where?
Allegedly, Texas and Florida, if I remember correctly. Open carry is legal here.

christcorp
July 17, 2009, 12:11 PM
In wyoming, it's the total opposite. Open carry is completely legal, so if it is hidden EVER, then it's considered concealed and you have to have a permit. So, if you are open carrying and have a long shirt or jacket that covers it up accidentally or temporarily, then it becomes concealed and you need the permit. If you are carrying concealed, and your shirt pops out and the gun becomes exposed, then it's not a problem because open carry is legal and it just became "Open Carried". Much more common sense approach.

HKUSP45C
July 17, 2009, 12:28 PM
Allegedly, Texas

While I can't speak intelligently about Florida law I can say, Texas, without a doubt, has no prohibition to printing codified anywhere in its Penal Code.

Texas does have a law against the Intentional Failure To Conceal which is more akin to lifting up your shirt during an argument to display a weapon.

I have never, once, ever seen anyone provide any proof, at all, of people in Texas successfully prosecuted for printing, handwringing about the matter is in no short supply however.

It appears, to me, that the cries from the carry community in Texas about "printing" being illegal are an end-run tactic to get open carry passed "so we won't go to jail for printing." However, much like malicious prosecutors embarking on a crusade against a person for using hand-loaded ammo, there just is no credible evidence to support the claim.

I wonder if Florida has similar stautues (our laws were based almost entirely on their model) and a similar dearth of actual cases where law abiding people were hauled off to the pokey for printing.

willbrink
July 17, 2009, 12:38 PM
"So, why so paranoid?"

Because those who carry think the rest of the world is much more observant then they really are. It's like those people who will say a fanny pack "screams gun" when in reality it does not to the average person... It is human nature to project one's own self conscious feelings to others. Some of it is about attitude and how you carry yourself and perceive yourself. Some are self conscious about it and are convinced everyone else can see the .25 mouse gun they have in an IWB holster under a shirt, sweater, and jacket. :neener:

OurSafeHome.net
July 17, 2009, 03:42 PM
In some places, "printing" is a crime.

Where?
Where?
Where?

I am not talking about "brandishing" nor am I talking about "showing off".

Only one person has EVER pointed out to me that they could see the butt of my revolver sticking out of my pants pocket. More people may have seen part of my weapon at other times, but in 20 years, only one person as ever said anything!

Another person used the term "hand-wringing", perhaps that is a more appropriate word than "paranoia" with regard to this attitude that I observe among many.

For the record, I never "show off", yet only on one of the 7,000 plus days that I have been licensed to carry has someone "made" me.

Once, my civilian uncle was reporting to a responding officer the events that occurred outside his home, with one of the "participants" present. The police officer saw the butt of uncle's weapon sticking outside of the front pocket of his jeans. With her index finger, she pushed the weapon farther down into his pocket and said "You watch that!" and gave a wag of the finger. (Black female officer, white male uncle, in Miami suburb.) (The Bad Guys did get a ride downtown.)

Other than "A Wag of the Finger", no problems!

NightStalkerTX
July 17, 2009, 04:03 PM
As HKUSP45C correctly pointed out, in Texas it is not illegal to print. It is illegally for a CHL holder to "intentionally fail to conceal", meaning to purposely expose the concealed weapon. Yes, open carry is illegal in Texas.

However, there are good reasons to be fastidious about concealing that have nothing to do with legality or illegality of accidentally exposing the concealed firearm. In Austin a couple of years ago at a Mister Car Wash near my home, there was a huge commotion because a CHL holder was bending into his auto to remove some materials from the floor prior to vacuuming the car, resulting in an exposed weapon. He became the unfortunate victim of a MWAG call, with several police cruisers surrounding him and officers with weapons drawn. To me, that is a very good reason to maintain vigilence about keeping the firearm concealed, but exposing it accidentally is not illegal.

ezypikns
July 17, 2009, 04:44 PM
made the statement that exposing your weapon or printing in a way that left no doubt that you're carrying might be interpreted as brandishing.

My guess is that it would have to be pretty blatant and careless. Even so, concealed carry is what we have here, and most people who care enough to apply for and receive a concealed carry license are law abiding people by nature.

Many people new to concealed carry are probably overly concerned with printing at first. That's natural, I believe. Think of all the folks proudly doing the "Wally World Walk".

It doesn't take long though to discover that nobody really cares what you do, and no one pays that much attention anyway. They're too concerned about themselves.

nwilliams
July 17, 2009, 04:53 PM
I don't care if I print or not.

The truth is most people won't notice even if you are printing. People just generally aren't that observant of others to notice an outline or bulge under somebody's shirt. You could be badly printing and walk around all day and maybe just maybe someone will be checking you out long enough to take notice or your print. However I think on average people don't scrutinize other people in public that carefully to notice.

sohcgt2
July 17, 2009, 05:51 PM
Maybe I was paying attention when my CHL Instructor made the statement that exposing your weapon or printing in a way that left no doubt that you're carrying might be interpreted as brandishing.

I can't imagine the circumstance that would lead to arrest for brandishing if you never took a firing grip on your weapon and your weapon never left the holster.

However, there are good reasons to be fastidious about concealing that have nothing to do with legality or illegality of accidentally exposing the concealed firearm. In Austin a couple of years ago at a Mister Car Wash near my home, there was a huge commotion because a CHL holder was bending into his auto to remove some materials from the floor prior to vacuuming the car, resulting in an exposed weapon. He became the unfortunate victim of a MWAG call, with several police cruisers surrounding him and officers with weapons drawn. To me, that is a very good reason to maintain vigilence about keeping the firearm concealed, but exposing it accidentally is not illegal.

I had a similar incident that resulted in me loosing about 30 min. I suspect I fared better than your man in Austin since he likely lost 30 min and the cost of the vacuum rental at the car wash.

unspellable
July 17, 2009, 08:08 PM
A cop once became aware that I was carrying. He detained me and spent 45 minutes on the computer, car radio, cell phone, walkie talkie, etc., checking me out. As it happened I was in no hurry, but I still didn't appreciate the check out. After all, why have a permit if you have to go through all that? The point of the permit is to show you have already been checked out.

Now suppose I had a VERY important appointment to make or drop dead. I would have been PO'd.

Also, it was a may issue state. Make waves and you're SOL at renewal time.

Zach S
July 17, 2009, 08:27 PM
I CCed a time or two before I had my CHP, but printing or getting caught was the least of my worries...

For the most part, I dont worry about printing for this reason:After carrying for a few years I realized 95% of the population is in condition "semi-conscious" meaning they wouldn't see a .50 cal barret under your shirt.

Lots of folks are mentioning OC laws, so I'll mention OC is a gray area here in NC.

mljdeckard
July 17, 2009, 08:36 PM
In 14 years of carrying, no one has ever told me that I was printing or flashing. At the same time, however, I don't worry about it much. Utah is an OC state, and I honestly think that most of the people who would notice are cops and other gun guys, so I don't mind anyway. (Same reason I don't worry about carrying a fanny pack.)

Judicator
July 18, 2009, 12:14 AM
Most of the time, I'm not concerned at all about printing. In Oregon, open carry is allowed, and the localities I frequent are pretty gun-friendly. If I go to a restaurant with my Glock 26 in a blade-tech OWB holster under a suit jacket, I'll usually take off the jacket before the meal, and 90% of the people around me never notice. Including the people that know I carry. It's true, most people have zero awareness of their surroundings.

inSight-NEO
July 18, 2009, 12:27 AM
I guess chalk it up to etiquette. Its not that printing may be illegal or anything. But, it behooves one to take the necessary precautions to make sure it either does not happen or is minimized at least. After all, not everyone around you is going to perceive your CCW as a good thing...ya' know? So why advertise if you can avoid it?

Personally, I find it gratifying when I can carry almost anywhere (within legal bounds) without one person knowing about it. If Im "printing," then Im doing something wrong as far as I see it.

springmom
July 18, 2009, 12:36 AM
If you live in Texas, you don't need to be paranoid but you'd better be really, really careful. Most cops I know couldn't care less, but Murphy has it that the one I'd run into some day when I'm printing would be the one in a hundred that does. Besides, a Jagwear belt pouch is so bloody easy to use it's nearly open carry and 100% legal, even if it's about as "concealed" as an 18-wheeler. :D

I can't afford a ticket, or an attorney; I'd rather spend the money on more ammunition if I can ever find it. Hence my care.

Jan

ETA: I've never done an exhaustive search for cases brought to trial for this, but like others, my CHL instructor was adamant that if your overshirt blows open while you're pumping gas, for example, and you get a MWAG (or for me a WWAG) you can be cited for intentional failure to conceal. I agree that it stretches the word "intentional" far past the logical breaking point, but it is what it is, and as I said, I don't want the hassle. Or the ticket.

B yond
July 18, 2009, 01:19 AM
Because of cr@p like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRyw1JnAstg

Even if you're legally carrying, getting put in the felony arrest position will ruin your day.

Deanimator
July 18, 2009, 04:25 AM
Lots of folks are mentioning OC laws, so I'll mention OC is a gray area here in NC.
One of the cops that I encountered when I inadvertently exposed here tried the "gray area" line on me. I shot it down in flames like a kamikaze. I made sure to mention it in my letter to the chief of police. It's NOT a "gray area" here in Ohio, and the Ohio AG's office has made that ABUNDANTLY clear. Open carry is 100% legal, and not RAS or PC of ANYTHING.

razorback2003
July 18, 2009, 04:09 PM
I live in Tennessee where we have a handgun carry permit. A permit is necessary to openly or conceal carry a handgun under most circumstances unless say hunting or fishing. I am not too worried about 'printing' because I can legally open carry, if i so choose, but I conceal, unless i'm going to the range or woods and i'm stopping to say pump gas.

When traveling to Arkansas (conceal carry required), i still do not worry. I use a pocket holster with a j frame hammerless revolver and no one notices. The law in Arkansas requires that the handgun be covered from view. There is nothing in the law about 'printing'. You can have a 44 mag with a 10 inch barrel under a jacket as long as it is covered and you are legal there. It doesn't matter how big of a bulge the handgun makes, regarding the law. All that matters is that the handgun is covered.

People are generally in their own little worlds. They do not pay attention to other people. Pumping gas in TN with an openly carried Glock on the way to the range no one has yet to say anything to me. They either don't care or don't notice.

Vern Humphrey
July 18, 2009, 04:27 PM
I've been carrying for a loooong time, and my experience is you could be towing an M198 155mm howitzer and most people wouldn't notice.

And here in Arkansas if they did notice, they'd ask where you got it, how much it cost, and does Wal-Mart sell ammo for it.:D

Mags
July 20, 2009, 02:14 AM
Riddle me this: Why are so many internet-CCW guys sooooo paranoid about "printing" and/or having part of their more-or-less concealed weapon being seen?
I live in an open carry State. However you can CC places you cannot open carry to. Also it is illegal to print even if you are in an area that is ok to open carry. Just imagine that convenience store owner in the first Bad Boys he seen the cops' guns tucked in the cops' waist band and freaked out. Now imagine that and you are not a cop...

makarovnik
July 20, 2009, 02:29 AM
IMHO the fewer people who know you are carrying the better off you are.

Vern Humphrey
July 20, 2009, 02:41 PM
there's always going to be that one gas bag granny that still has enough on the ball to recognize a gun on someone but is old and scared enough to cause a real fuss about it.
Not always, by any means.

On the other hand, I had a friend who broke his back. He was just out of surgery, walking with a cane, and travelling through New Jersey (his wife driving.) They went into a Subway's to get sandwiches, came out, and as they were pulling out of the parking lot were suddenly surrounded by cop cars. My friend was hauled out of the car and thrown to the ground.

Some idiot, seeing his cane, had called in "Man with a gun."

coloradokevin
July 20, 2009, 03:14 PM
I don't consider it paranoia for me. I'm a police officer, and I always carry concealed while I'm off-duty. To me, carrying concealed means exactly that... If I've decided to carry a concealed weapon I don't want to be printing, and I don't want to be "partially concealed".

A few reasons I think this is the case:

1) Being carefully concealed draws less attention than being half concealed.

2) Even when open carrying is allowed, I feel that you are asking for more trouble if an ill-informed "concerned citizen" spots the gun you attempted to conceal, versus a gun that you were obviously carrying openly (it brings in the whole: "Hi, 911? Yeah, there is a guy in the store who is trying to hide a gun right now, and I think he is about to rob the place" aspect. In fact, I know of a fellow officer who was once drawn on by a neighboring department after they received a call reporting him as a would-be robber, when a citizen spotted his concealed rig).

3) Staying concealed leaves the element of surprise on your side. I like to blend into a crowd. I don't dress in a manner that would suggest that I'm a cop, nor do a dress in a way that would suggest I have a gun. I'd rather be looking just like everyone else until such time as I needed to act in a situation!

jimmy99
July 20, 2009, 03:31 PM
I agree with the element of surprize. I live in a open carry state, and would never do it. There are alot of people that want to control everything, or make it hard for you to have what you want. It invites unwanted publicity.
Within the last few months there has been at least three permit holders in my state that have shot a hole in a toilet through a stall or somthing else. We as a group don't want that attention.:banghead:

Gryffydd
July 20, 2009, 03:33 PM
Do I make an attempt to conceal my concealed weapon? Yes. Is concealment my #1 priority over quick access to the weapon? No. I don't make a huge effort to conceal. If when I bend over there's a small bulge on the back of my shirt from the grip, I'm not terribly worried. Most people won't notice it to begin with, and the ones who do will just think it's my cell phone or something. Do I wear a skin tight tank top with my 1911 in an OWB holster underneath? No.

I don't try to hide any sign that I have *something* under my clothes, but I do try to make it so it's not obvious what is there. That is where the difference comes in, in my opinion, between paranoia and good sense. If you're worried that one can even tell with close examination that you have *something* in your pocket you're paranoid.

I don't typically open carry, but I do support it, and those who do. It's the openly-concealed middle ground where you can run into at least inconvenience, even if it is legal.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for links to state laws stating that printing is illegal ANYWHERE. Not "If I recall" or "I heard that"...real, live links to state law. If you can't post that, shut up.

bubbaturbo
July 20, 2009, 08:01 PM
Gryffydd said"
Oh, and I'm still waiting for links to state laws stating that printing is illegal ANYWHERE. Not "If I recall" or "I heard that"...real, live links to state law. If you can't post that, shut up.


I'll answer any post I feel like answering thank you. Whether you like it or not.

ArfinGreebly
July 20, 2009, 08:13 PM
Remember where you are . . .

Testosterone poisoning gets threads locked.

Gryffydd
July 20, 2009, 08:29 PM
bubbaturbo, my post was directed at those stating that printing was illegal in this state or that state, while having no actual knowledge whether it was true or not. Since you never made that statement, I'm curious what about my post you thought was directed at you.

BHP FAN
July 20, 2009, 08:40 PM
Me,I'll shut up.

bubbaturbo
July 20, 2009, 09:44 PM
bubbaturbo, my post was directed at those stating that printing was illegal in this state or that state, while having no actual knowledge whether it was true or not. Since you never made that statement, I'm curious what about my post you thought was directed at you.

Regardless of where your post was directed, I have an issue with somebody on The High Road discussion forum telling others to shut up.

AKElroy
July 20, 2009, 09:57 PM
Some states require the gun to be completely concealed. TX and FL come to mind.

I have had a CHL for over 10 years in Texas, and this is not entirely accurate. You can have your CHL suspended for failure to conceal, but the standard is fairly lax. You need only conceal the weapon from casual observation.

Detection by LE is not casual observation. I regularly pocket carry a G27 in a pocket holster, it prints. I occassionally carry a 5" 1911 in an OWB pancake under an un-tucked shirt, and again, it would be easily detected by someone paying attention.

Here's the thing, though. NO ONE IS PAYING ATTENTION. I have literally carried REAL GUNS nearly EVERY DAY for the last 10-12+ years, and never had a question raised.

Make a reasonable effort to abide by the "law" to avoid hassel, and put your right into practice by proudly carrying. No one is watching.

Mags
July 20, 2009, 10:14 PM
bubbaturbo, my post was directed at those stating that printing was illegal in this state or that state, while having no actual knowledge whether it was true or not. Since you never made that statement, I'm curious what about my post you thought was directed at you. Refer to post 44

Gryffydd
July 20, 2009, 10:47 PM
Refer to post 44
That's cool. I couldn't care less about NM's laws at the moment as I have no plans to be there in the immediate future. If, however, I do visit, forgive me if I look up the law for myself instead of trusting random THR Member #13542, as I don't see any official cites in your post either.
Oh, and NMAC 10.8.2 doesn't say anything about printing. Care to tell me what makes printing illegal in NM?

Mags
July 20, 2009, 11:06 PM
Care to tell me what makes printing illegal in NM?
What do you care you already said you have no plans to visit.
I couldn't care less about NM's laws at the moment as I have no plans to be there in the immediate future.
I don't see any official cites in your post either
And for the city why don't you look under my name. Why are you acting like a child?

Gryffydd
July 20, 2009, 11:18 PM
Who said anything about the city? I thought we were talking about the state? I wouldn't have known you were in NM if it weren't for the city...
I live in an open carry State. However you can CC places you cannot open carry to. Also it is illegal to print even if you are in an area that is ok to open carry.
Acting like a child is getting all huffy when someone questions your statements when you have no sources. I just get tired of people throwing this "Open Carry is illegal in Washington State" "Printing is illegal in Texas and Florida" etc. over and over with no legal basis for their statements.

I don't personally care about New Mexico's laws, but there are others on this board who might, and I'd hate for them to get incorrect information. I'm not saying your information was incorrect, I'm just saying that it's unverified and you don't seem to have any interest in verifying it, which makes me question why not.

I did find this:

NMS 29-19-2 D. "concealed handgun" means a loaded handgun that is not visible to the ordinary observations of a reasonable person;

However, http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement/ccw/ccwFaq.php states that Open Carry is legal. Therefore, while "concealed" according to the above definition means that a license would be required, it does not make printing illegal.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I can't verify whether you're right or not.

Mags
July 20, 2009, 11:19 PM
Here you go from the New Mexico Conceal Carry Act of 2003 Chapter 29 Article 19 Paragraph 29-19-2 Line D
D. “concealed handgun” means a loaded handgun that is not visible to the ordinary observations of a reasonable person;
And I must say I am not a New Mexico Native I am currently stationed here in Albuquerque and I am quite glad cause of the freedoms New Mexico offers.

Mags
July 20, 2009, 11:21 PM
states that Open Carry is legal. Therefore, while "concealed" according to the above definition means that a license would be required, it does not make printing illegal.
Open carry is not legal in places that sell alcohol for off premise consumption such as a grocery store or Wal Mart.
(4) by a person carrying a concealed handgun
who is in possession of a valid concealed handgun license for
that gun pursuant to the Concealed Handgun Carry Act; provided
that the licensed establishment does not sell alcoholic
beverages for consumption on the premises;
From Change to NMSA 30-7-3

NavyLCDR
July 20, 2009, 11:23 PM
Also it is illegal to print even if you are in an area that is ok to open carry.

Huh?!? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Maybe it would make sense to me if anyone could provide the actual statute that backs this statement up.

Mags
July 20, 2009, 11:26 PM
I will admit I am wrong on that NavyLT please forgive me I was going off what my CC instructor had taught me without looking up the statute myself.

Gryffydd
July 20, 2009, 11:26 PM
Edit... Nevermind, looks like we figured that one out.
Nothing personal against you, Mags, this sort of thing is so common, and Law Enforcement and CCW Instructors are the #1 source of disinformation about printing and open carry. That's why I always ask for or look for actual cites to back it up with those two subjects in particular.

Mags
July 20, 2009, 11:28 PM
Um yeah... you did notice that I posted that exact cite, right?
Looks like we are typing at the same time.
Also it is illegal to print even if you are in an area that is ok to open carry.
I already admitted to being wrong on that one just before your posts.

Mags
July 20, 2009, 11:29 PM
Here have at it prove me wrong and learn some NM laws at the same time. I'm done making an ass of myself.
http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement/ccw/index.php

Gryffydd
July 20, 2009, 11:33 PM
It's all good. Bottom line, we all learned something.

NavyLCDR
July 20, 2009, 11:55 PM
Edit... Nevermind, looks like we figured that one out.
Nothing personal against you, Mags, this sort of thing is so common, and Law Enforcement and CCW Instructors are the #1 source of disinformation about printing and open carry. That's why I always ask for or look for actual cites to back it up with those two subjects in particular.

I was just going to say the same thing and you beat me to it! Die hard CC'ers will say anything to attempt to dissuade someone from open carrying.

Nuke8401
July 21, 2009, 08:06 AM
CT is considered a shall issue, concealed carry state. I reality if you have a "State Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers" I don't think there is any law saying you must carry concealed except the following:

"CARRYING
A permit to carry a pistol or revolver is required to
carry a handgun on or about one’s person, either openly
or concealed, or in a vehicle. However, the Connecticut
Board of Firearms Permit Examiners (which reviews
denials and revocations of permits) cautions that “every
effort should be made to ensure that no gun is exposed
to view or carried in a manner that would tend to alarm
people who see it.”

So pretty much you risk being arrested for "alarming the public".

I wonder how many other states are really open carry states but have these stupid clauses?

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/CTSL.pdf

bnkrazy
July 21, 2009, 09:57 AM
After you have dinner with over 100 openly armed individuals, you just don't buy into the 'someone seeing your gun is bad' argument anymore.

LaVere
July 26, 2009, 05:49 PM
I live in an open carry state. Other than certain areas/situations, I really don't care if my weapon is exposed.




* See Michigan laws for exceptions and age requirements

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3435/3759522938_8339c7653b_o.jpg

rbernie
July 26, 2009, 06:20 PM
Time to let this one settle - we're well past convincing anybody to change their mind.

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