[TrapperReady]

More thinkin...

I know that the skeet folks shoot .410. This is evidently because it's too easy of a sport with a real-sized shell. :neener:

I've had an occasional hankering for a Winchester 9410. Don't know what I'd do with it, aside from tell my wife I got it for rabbit hunting (something which I don't actually do).

Some folks use them to introduce young'uns to the sport. "Here son. This here's a single-shot that throws a pattern so crappy you are highly unlikely to actually hit anything. Have fun!"

Collectors of old shotguns spend inordinate sums of money on them. It seems that it costs a lot more to buy something no one wanted in the first place.

Every report I've ever read has extolled the virtues of the 28ga, while condemning the .410... usually in the same sentence.

What am I missing here? Is there a valid reason for actually taking up valuable space in the safe with one?

[Dave R]

The only reasons I can think of are light weight and low recoil. But again, the difference in weight and recoil between .410 and 28ga is prolly negligible, and the 28 will definitely pattern better.

Only good I can think of is, if a kid starts off with a .410 and can hit things, he'll be a better shooter forever after.

[P95Carry]

Way back - I had a folding .410 .. single shot thing ... hinged where you'd normally expect to break a shotty down.... which allowed it to be half length. This made it extremely handy to carry ... and it was light weight.

It was hard to shoot well .... that was me not the gun. Stupidly as I used it so little I traded it .... but actually now regret doing so. With a 3" mag shell it was very useful for small game fairly close in.

Biggest downside IMO is cost .. the ammo is crazy expensive.

[sm]

TR
Shotguns, chokes and loads are just plan weird. :D
Any "reason" to buy a gun is good :D

There are some phenomanae (sp?) that do exist however in all this mess.
It is proven by the number of skeet shooters for instance that the .410 is the most difficult to master,and the scores are lower.

There is that payload to bore ratio, which effects many things. One interesting thing is the .410 and 12 ga will throw the same pattern on a pattern board...but...look at the density of that pattern. Also remember the pellets DO NOT all arrive on target at the same time ( shot string).

What makes the 28 ga such a hard hitter, gives skeet shooters such great scores ( many often times better than 12 or 20 ) is the fact the 28 ga has a short shot string, and less recoil. So with the pellets arriving "more at the same time" , denser patterns,shooters not flinching...see?

Now the .410 is fun, no doubt. NO recoil, but due to longer shot strings, less dense patterns ( remember too less pellets) Its effectiveness is limited, even within its effetive range of ~ 20-25 yds.

I have always suggested when an adult wants to get a kid their first gun,single shot in particular, DO NOT buy that kid a .410. Buy that kid a single shot 28 ga. Granted we are speaking of kids here, maybe a 20 is too much, ...the kid will break more/hit more birds, tin cans, paperplates, small game...etc. Yeah the ammo is more, and slugs NOTavaiable ( thats where he probably needs a rifle anyway...) but if the kid gets "results" they stay interested. If a kid fails hitting a tin can or a squirrel...kid may get turned off guns...not good.

Now us older folks, having more experince and knowing all this stuff and wanting to have a challenge, and fun...darn right a .410 deserves a spot(s) in the safe.

Need anymore help rationalizing a gun purchase , holler, I'll think of something...I promise to help.;)

[one-shot-one]

i have two, best early season bushy tail gun, for when the leaves are still thick almost year round in s.e. texas.

[Bowlcut]

cheap..... period


well i always use a .410 for squirll hunting back home. occasionaly the .22 but a single shot break .410 is just a lot easier to carry though the woods. break it over your arm, carry it with a shot in it or in hand....any little cirtter will go down :D.

and well....why not....one of every size eh?

[sm]

I agree those single shot .410s are a hoot. Early season bushy tails, oh yeah carrying more than shooting agree.

Talk about fun, have your buds do a dove shoot with only single shot .410s. Oh I've and others have gotten our 15 bird limit, still funny, people pull on fore-arms to shuck ,pull trigger again forgetting not a O/U or semi.

We sometimes only allow 20 shells for a 15 bird limit ( we figure the 5 for snakes btw) Then we see whom had the best ratio.

Get some slugs and do a steel plate and see how far back on can go...

"I didn't grow up, I got bigger" :)

[kudu]

I like the .410, :cuss: It's a good challenging shotshell,:banghead: It's the only gauge that I have been unable to shoot a hundred straight in :fire: Had lots of 99s' but the elusive 100 never made it. :cuss: :banghead: :fire:

[Bowlcut]

dang it....this is making me wish i would have grabbed that old winchester break 410 from dad when he gave me the ithica. dang it. either i need to bug him to let me have it again, or just go grab a NEF or H&R 410 for some fun. and i gota find someone/someplace to go hunting here in middle-tn. i hate living in the city .... :fire:

[Andrew Wyatt]

i started out on a single shot 20.

it's still my favorite shotgun. 410 has some utility in combo guns, imo.

[sm]

kudu, c'mon tell us how you really feel...:)
BTDT
Let me share how I ran'em in .410 the first time. Lets get the fact my sanity is questioneable at times out in the open...Ok?

You know that station 8 and the wobbled knees you get after you blow shot 99, or 100...yeah that one. Heart rate is up, too sweaty to hold the guns, a bazillion people watching...

" Ok darn it, I'm gonna run 'em, but I gotta do this first"
I went to station 8 and shot H8, and then L8, twice...L8 just like I would if a normal perfect round had been shot.

I ran 'em, I think I got the anxiety of that station out the way with out prior pressure.

I've run'em numerous times since. So blame me when you shoot station 8 before starting, and your buds think yur nuts. I'll probably hear the yell of excitement before you post success.

hey, crazy worked for me...

[C.R.Sam]

I never thought much of the .410.
Even less now that the ammo is so expensive.

I learned a lot of respect for .410 shooters tho.

One in particular. Late 40s, trap shoot in DuPont Washington.
Heavy side bets on most rounds.
A .410 shooter wearin bib overalls took nearly everybody's money.
Only shooter to beat him had to go straight till the 23 yd line to do it.

.410 shooter left in his nice Packard. No doubt in my mind how he paid for it.

Sam

[huntsman]

the .410 is great for bunnies with beagles :D I think some of my best hunts were with an old .410 SXS and a couple of slow running dogs. ;)

[sm]

Thanks a lot Sam. That does it, Its official no more B-days for me, I'm staying this age forever!
Tuff Nutt, Packards, Desotos, Studabakers, .410 paper shells, and watching guys shooting for side bets, No TV and radio shows ( Texaco Hour anyone?)

Need to shoot a .410, anything, gotta clear my head :D

[Traveler]

I do use .410 on the skeet range, but also tend to use it a lot for quail and dove in the Southwest. Yes, you do have to stay with short ranges, but it works. And I can take a box of shells in a pocket and walk for several hours without any discomfort. It also works good on snakes.

Back when you used to be able to find them I had a friend who would use #5's in his .410 for pheasant.

I still have some 3" #7's I use on grouse in WA.

[Smoke]

I have Granddaddy's old Winchester Mod. 42 Pump .410

Used to watch him shoot trap in the backyard with it. It was the first shotgun I ever shot. Used it to bust the first clay I ever hit.

It’s a wonderful little gun. I use it on quail a good bit. (When I can find 'em) Its a little long for most kids but still a good teaching gun. It can really sharpen your skills.

It is still one of my favorite shotguns both for sentimental reasons and for shooting.

Interesting note:

I was invited to go shoot dove with some gentlemen that hunt out near Balmorhea, TX. I took along the 12ga Citori and the Remington 20ga that has been a constant for years. Introductions were handed out and I pulled out my Citori. Frowns all around. I was kind of proud of my Citori at that point in my life and was a little confused. I mean it was OBVIOUS they weren't too happy with me, but being polite nothing was said.

The friend that had invited me pulled me over looking a little embarrassed and said, "I forgot to tell you! These guys think it's unsporting to shoot anything bigger than 20ga,"

I looked around and noticed a whole lot of 410's and 28ga guns. I later discovered there was only one other 20 there. Anyway, I pulled out my 20 and everybody relaxed. The fellow that owned the place had a platform built up at the top of the scrub mesquite that threatened to choke the place out. (About 7' up) He had a chair sitting up there and climbed up.

Everybody else fanned out in the brush and waited for the birds to fly. I kept thinking to myself, "This guy is sticking out like a sore thumb on that platform. No birds are gonna fly anywhere near that guy"

After we had been there about 30 minutes the birds started. And let me tell you THEY STARTED! Birds were coming into the windmill we were near and they came from all directions. Lots of birds. I shot a few and threw a lot of lead in the air.

While I was picking up a bird and making my way back to my spot I watched that old boy on that platform. He would sit in his chair and wait while birds flew right by him. Lots and lots of birds. Let good shots go by. Then every once in a while, he would slowly stand up, bring his 410 up..... and .....then......shoot.

It didn't take long to limit out and I fell back to the pickup to drink a beer and watched this old boy some more. It became painfully apparent what he was doing. He would pick his shots when a bird was coming into him. He would time his shots so the bird fell near his platform. ( I later found out he tried to get them to land ON the platform) 5 out of 15 landed on the stand, the others were within a 45' radius of him. Others there were doing the same thing but none with the precision this guy was.

After the hunt we were standing around and these guys are comparing notes. Several limited with no misses. Several compared the dove that fell farthest from them. Then they'd argue who took the longest.

they got to me.......I fessed up that it took me a box and a half to limit.....I had dove fall a good 40 yards from me........had lost one bird in the brush.....none fell closer than 35 feet......and I was using a huge 20ga!

They didn't bust my chops too bad. Lots of "You'll get better young feller" type stuff. I was 30 at the time. Been shooting Dove 16 or 17 years. But had never been in the presence of masters like these guys.

I asked the guy who had brought me out about them on the drive back. They are mostly retired oilmen, a few doctors and lawyers, and they spend most of their time at the gun range or in the fields shooting birds. They had some of the nicest guns I had ever seen and could shoot them better than any group I've ever been around before or since.

I doubt I'll ever get to the caliber of shooters these guys were. I think I'll pull out the .410 and practice some more.

[P95Carry]

Enjoyable read Smoke .. thank you.:)

[TrapperReady]

I agree P95. Nice read and a great story. Smoke, thanks for taking the time to share it.

[PJR]

The .410 is an excellent round to inform you that you are not nearly the shotgunner that you thought you were. ;)

I jumped into the small gauges recently and while I can hold my own with the 20 and the 28, the .410 reminds me that I still have some learning to do.

The debate rages whether the most challenging feat in shotgunning is running 100 from the 27 yard line at trap or 100 straight skeet using a .410.

Hat's off to those who can shoot them well. I can't. Or at least not yet.

Paul

[sm]

Smoke, good story.
I know the type of fellas...they walk down, instead of running down, as the saying goes. Model 42, yeah a classic.

PJR, It's all fun, it's all a journey not a destination...just with a .410 one doesn't have to make excuses, people don't raze you...hey that in itself is a good thing.

[TrapperReady]

Couldn't it be argued that the .410 merely introduces a larger component of luck into the equation? For example, nearly everything I've read about that chambering has indicated that beyond fairly close range, the patterns develop holes. Using a .410 from the 27 yard line, wouldn't it be possible to properly center the target, and still wind up with a miss? I'm not saying it would happen every time, but certainly at least a few out of 100.

IIRC, Brister's patterning with the .410 showed some very patchy patterns at 40 yards. Combine that with significant shot stringing, and I'd think it would become more of a roll-of-the-dice than pure test of skill.

[PJR]

TR

I hope you didn't conclude from my post I was suggesting shooting the .410 at the 27 yard line. I might be dense sometimes but not that crazy. ;)

And if anyone were to raze me about about missing with the .410. My response would be to offer him the gun and a box of shell. I'd suspect very few takers.

What is fun is putting all the shells for the entire evening in your pocket and barely noticing the weight.

Paul

[sm]

TR
I agree with the Brister tests, scary huh?
Heck I've had days I needed luck with 12 ga and 1 1/8 oz...who says you can't miss L7 ? Wanna bet. :D

Hey aren't you supposed to be getting us some quail...I have the tea made.:p

[Okiecruffler]

The wife has become very fond of my old Single .410 Sears and Roebuck. I had forgotten I had the thing until she found it in the back of a closet while helping the parents move. She can only hit about half the clays with it, but she gets alittle better everytime, and she shoots about twice as many rounds thru it when we go out.

My dad has never owned anything but a .410 for as long as I've been around. He says anything bigger than that and it takes too long to get all the pellets from the meat.

[Brad Johnson]

Stoeger makes (imports) a nifty looking little .410 double-trigger SxS that I wouldn't mind having just for the novelty.

Brad

[BigG]

Trapper, you've covered my musings on the cartridge rather well in your initial post. ;)

[12-34hom]

I have killed more small game with a 410 than all the other shotguns i've own.

I'm looking at buying a Remington 1100 in 410 just as soon as i can find one at a price i can live with.

Thru the years, i've owned - 870 wingmaster, Stevens 311a, Savage bolt action [ tube fed mag]. All took many rabbits and pheasants with loads of lead 4 or 5 shot, out to 35 yards.

410 guns are "fun guns".

12-34hom.

[Stay Low]

How about because 410s present a little more challenge and you can get a lot of them in your shooting vest since they take up so little room!:)

[ninjaj448]

We use the 870 .410 Wingmaster LW for grouse, woodcock, an occasional rabbit and, rarely, a pheasant. Its light and, and when I'm on, I bust them as well as the 12ga holders. When pheasants are on the menu, its a 12ga Super X Model 1.

[sm]

When pheasants are on the menu, its a 12ga Super X Model 1.
Ding Ding Ding :D
Another shooter with great taste :p
No "Puf-saycents" here...have SX1 will travel tho'...

[ninjaj448]

re1973;

Well, Sir! Here's to reaching way out there and touching those birds with our Super X1s!

The fellow I got it from wanted a good grade over/under for Vandallia(sp). Not sure what he ended up with but he asked about 2 years later if I would be willing to 'work something out' with SX. When I explained how I fell in love the first round of trap I shot with it and how I'm able to bring the out of range pheasants down, he said something like, 'Yeah, I miss that, too.'

[kudu]

Well,,, after having this post up I decided to load up a couple of boxes of .410 and go to the skeet club. I got the old 1100 Remington out of the safe so it could see the light of day after a couple of years and it broke a 49 out of 50 on the skeet range. The other 3 guys I was shooting with had a pair of 12gauges and a 20 ga. All good shooters but only one guy shot as well as I did with the.410. All in all a pretty good afternoon.:)

[ninjaj448]

That's good shooting, kudu! I, too, use the .410 for skeet but don't fair quite that well; but its not the gun or the load...it's my lack of practice. Hope the next time out you get that 50 straight patch.

[45auto]

Fun and tough gauge to shoot.

I shoot it best when I shoot it like a 12 gauge and don't think about the fact that I spill more shot than it has in the shell. But, it hits hard when centered.

[Gila Jorge]

When I shot competitively I used to shoot maybe 10-12000 rounds a year and had a 97 average in the 410. Ran a 98 average in the 28ga and 96 in the 20ga and a 98 in the 12ga also. I never did like the 20ga but used to practice with the 28 all the time. Of all the gauges I liked the 28 the best. Wish I still had a 28 for early doves. I'l like an O'U bored mod and mod to shoot with. My competition gun was a Perazzi Mirage with Briley tubes. But would shoot Beretta 687s today....in fact just bought a sporting clays 687 tha I'm waiting delivery on. Have a friend with a 28ga Ruger O/U thats a fine little gun.

[SteelyDan]

The first long-gun I ever shot was a .410 my Dad bought me, when I was probably about 13. I thought it was just about as cool as anything anywhere. I hit a bunch of clay pigeons (and missed a whole lot more) with it. Also got one or two pheasants, though I'm not sure I'd use it for that purpose today.

Anyway, my point is that it helped to make a kid--me--enjoy shooting and hunting, so I think it served a valuable purpose. I wish I had it today, but years later someone broke in and stole all my Dad's guns. And my .410.

[Roboshred]

Thats how many shots it took to bring down whitewings when I lived in Texas with my 410. It was the ultmate paradox. A 3 shot bolt action mossberg that you could never cycle fast enough to get the 2nd shot. I ultimately gave it back to my older brother after I did found something a little easier on my psychy. Like creating world peace or finding a cure for cancer. I don't miss that gun but I love the small gauge/caliber shotguns in the double configuration. RB:what:

[farscott]

As others have mentioned, I like the .410 to sharpen my skills and for small game hunting. I find it easier to work on my technique when I have very little recoil.

My first .410 was a Citori that I later traded in an amazing bout of stupidity. My present .410 is a BPS Hunting, and I will not trade this one.

[Ken Cox]

My grandfather used his single-shot .410 for shooting gophers in city-limits.
Things have changed.
I have the shotgun in my safe.
I've never shot it.

[Don R.]

I too think the 9410 is cool, shot my first rabbit with an old bolt action Stevens 410.
What I'm wanting to hear is that the Winchester or Marlin folks will come out with a model that will chamber a 3"

[NavajoNPaleFace]

Growing up many, many moon ago in Pennsylvania I was given a Savage 24 .22LR/.410 O/U by my dad and it was either use that or nothing at all.

So, needless to say, at that age, I couldn't regret having something else that I never had.

My dad, at the time owned 194 acres of farm and woodland and, honestly, I was allowed to hunt alone as early as ten years old. I shudder at that fact now in my older age. It's a wonder I survived my teenage years for that matter but that's another story.

I recall hustling home after school and I had about an hour before the cows had to come in for milking and time, therefore, was valuable.

I loved to shoot that gun and learned quickly to make each shot count. Although, I admit often trying to get a second round chambered before the game got out of range.:D I can't recall ever being successful.

I managed to get quite a few rabbits over the years and since squirrels were in season at the same time the .22LR came in handy.

Along with the rabbits I managed to take down some grouse so I know the .410 has the power to penetrate their feathers.

And, I've been lucky enough to have gotten a few pheasants. That was more luck than anything I think.

I don't know the effectiveness when comparing the .410 to other calibers since I've never studied the subject and I'll have to trust the judgement and finding of others who have.

I do know that the Savage 24 turned out (unbeknownst to me at the time) to have been an excellent choice of gun for a very young shooter to 'cut his teeth on.'

I have so many fond memories of walking the meadows, streams and woods with that gun slung over my shoulder or in the crook of my left arm.

Those are cherished memories that can never be replaced.

[Backwoods]

Well, I like my three .410s, and I seem to do alright with them. For the last 10-12 years it's been my primary upland shotgun. I'm careful about the range I take my shots at though.

If pheasants were more common in my part of Ohio, I might opt for a larger gauge gun though. Although my small game is mostly rabbits, I have knocked down(dead) several cock birds that flushed from underfoot.

Winchester 3" AA shells with 7-1/2 size shot is what I prefer, larger thins out the pattern real quick and smaller just seems too light.

Don in Ohio

[pm9596]

I small game hunt witha Daly/Miroku o/u 410 with a single six on my hip. It's a great combo. for me and makes for an easy long days hunt.

I've used the .410 for sporting clays and it's real tough but great sport.

[45auto]

Hey, if the shot prices keep going up, we'll all be shooting 410's by next year.

A "true" sign of wealth will be the guy with a 12 gauge :D . You can't lease shot, like a "beamer".