Is a concealed carry permit worth it ?


PDA






southwest1
July 17, 2009, 02:33 AM
I am a rifle guy, don't own any handguns. I was at a local gun show and bought one of those telescopic batons. In doing some research, I found out it is ok to carry the baton in plain site, but if I keep it in my car or stuff it into a pocket I need a concealed carry permit. That got me thinking, it may not be a bad idea to get one, training is probably pretty good.

For those of you that have such a permit, what are the drawbacks ? Are you put on a special list ? Do you get checked more carefully at airports ? During a traffic stop are you treated differently than a citizen without a permit ?

I gotta believe that having a concealed carry permit puts a person on the radar screen. Any thoughts ?

Is it worth it ?

If you enjoyed reading about "Is a concealed carry permit worth it ?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
chris in va
July 17, 2009, 02:37 AM
I've found no negatives to having a CC permit.

Lists? Not really, unless some stupid reporter decides to access public records and publish all permit holders in the local paper.

Airports? Not that I've noticed.

Traffic stops, I've had two officers give me a warning instead of a ticket if that means anything.

Bottom line, definitely worth it.

AWorthyOpponent
July 17, 2009, 02:55 AM
IDK about Arizona, but here in Florida, CCW permits are not public record. When I am stopped by the police (has only happened once) I hand them my DL and CWFL at the same time. The officer then asked me if I Had any weapons on me. When i said yes, that i had a handgun on my right hip, he just asked me to keep my hands in plain sight. Of course another car came (standard procedure in these parts) but i was thanked by the officer for being cooperative and was sent on my way with a verbal warning. (33 in a 25)

I the officer seemed to not care that I had a firearm, once he knew I had a valid permit.

There are NO drawbacks to having a CCW. If you don't want to carry a gun, you don't HAVE to, but if you do, you can. If you want to carry a knife, or baton, you can...It just gives you the option. I would do it...

Deus Machina
July 17, 2009, 03:47 AM
In FL here, too, so see above.

The only drawback I've found is figuring out where you can and can't have it, and remembering to leave it in the car. IE: banks are legal, but some have metal detectors. And for some reason the young child--that someone left outside with the windows shut on a 110-degree day--decides that's the time to stare at you. Hate when that happens, when I just want to slip it in the glovebox and go.

At least in FL, it's worth the price in what you can save. You can buy a gun without a waiting period or transfer, just tuck it in a bag and go. At a gun show in the county where even long guns need a waiting period, that's a good way to knock a quick $50 off.

MovedWest
July 17, 2009, 03:57 AM
As a resident of ********** who can't get one: YES it's worth it! :fire:

loop
July 17, 2009, 05:04 AM
I am in Arizona and an NRA certified instructor and CCW instructor.

You are treated differently by police. They know you have been checked out by ATFE, FBI, the state, the county and, if you live in an incorporated area, the local police. They know you have a clean record. I was recently stopped by DPS (wannabe CHIPs). He never even asked me to look at my gun. He did ask me to leave it in my truck while I went back to his car for him to write a warning (i'm sure without the permit I would have gotten a ticket).

In Arizona, if you have a pickup rifle scabbard built into a front seat cover of a pickup, you are carrying concealed. If you have a loaded rifle anywhere in a vehicle that isn't plainly visible, you are carrying concealed. It is very easy to get crossed up.

Further, if you have a permit there is no background check when you buy a gun. You have already been checked and DPS updates its database daily. It eliminates the phone call and dance that go on when you buy a gun.

The training is an abridged version of the NRA basic pistol and personal protection course with a heavy emphasis on state law and individual rights and consequences of self defense. But, it is worthwhile. You come away with a clear understanding of when you may use deadly force and what to expect in the aftermath.

The cost is relatively cheap in most places in the state. Considering what it cost me to get the many hours of training to become an instructor and the time investment, the classes are dirt cheap.

I run classes of different levels. For entry level pistoleros we offer a program that earns four NRA certificates and a CCW permit qualification. It costs quite a bit more than the standard CCW program, but it offers a lot more. Among what it does is it demonstrates training in four different aspects of training to be proficient with a handgun. If you ever have to go to court you can show a wealth of training and qualifications to accompany your CCW training.

Carrying a concealed weapon is a huge responsibility. I disagree with the baton for self defense, however. Depending on it as a weapon means you will engage in hand-to-hand combat if you are ever required to use it. If that is the case you will be injured. If you win you may only be slightly injured, but if you lose you will certainly be severely injured.

It's kind of like carrying a knife for self defense. The only thing it guarantees is that you are going to bleed...

loneviking
July 17, 2009, 05:05 AM
Not much negative here in Nevada. The cops know when they run your license that you have a CCW, and a number of them seem to give CCW's a break. Airports? Can't really bring them in anyway, unless you're going to check 'em and fly,so that doesn't affect me. Lists? CCW's are not public record here, so no problem there. It sure is nice to have my own PDA snugged in tight when I'm wandering around in downtown Reno with all of the drunks, homeless, gang bangers and who-knows-what hanging around.

Davek1977
July 17, 2009, 05:50 AM
As a permit holder, I've never noticed increased scrutiny at any level. I'm treated the same, for better or worse, as I have been before I was issued a permit. No increased trouble with the police, no difficulty in airports, no differences of any kind whatsoever. AS far as lists go, SD, where I'm from, as specifically made it against the law to publish any lists of permit holders. One paper's website currently has all the permits listed that were issued before the law was enacted, but that in no way affects me personally.

The Lone Haranguer
July 17, 2009, 06:02 AM
I was in AZ from 2005 to 2008 and had a CCW. No problems whatsoever. In fact, it streamlines the process for purchasing firearms - showing your CCW eliminates the need for the NICS phone call. Also, AZ is one of the few states where you can carry a weapon concealed, thus allowing your baton (or a long gun or automatic weapon for that matter). Other states have Concealed Handgun Licenses, Handgun Carry Permits, etc., which would only allow you to carry a handgun. It is nice to have the option. :)

The one time I got stopped (for allegedly speeding and weaving; I did neither) I was let off with a warning. I don't know if the CCW helped, but it didn't hurt, either. The officer was certainly not bothered by it.

jackstinson
July 17, 2009, 07:31 AM
Other states have Concealed Handgun Licenses, Handgun Carry Permits, etc., which would only allow you to carry a handgun.
Yep...in Ohio we have a CHL. "Ohio License to carry a Concealed Handgun" is what mine says on it. Doesn't mention carrying batons, bowie knives, flame throwers, ninja stars, etc. Other states have differing specs.
If stopped for a traffic thing, we are required to inform the LEO if we are carrying.

CoRoMo
July 17, 2009, 09:53 AM
For those of you that have such a permit, what are the drawbacks ? Few, if any, negligible drawbacks IMO.

Are you put on a special list ? Sometimes. It depends on locality/state/etc.

Do you get checked more carefully at airports ? Not that I know of, no.

During a traffic stop are you treated differently than a citizen without a permit ? Also depends on locality/state/etc. (whether or not the officer knows), but if he does, yes.

I gotta believe that having a concealed carry permit puts a person on the radar screen. Any thoughts ? I highly recommend anyone and everyone getting their carry permit whether or not they ever plan to carry.

Is it worth it ? Without a friggin' doubt. Yes.

I guarantee you won't regret it.

Yo Mama
July 17, 2009, 09:58 AM
Next year the push for Constitutional Carry will be pushed harder. Nowhere in the Constitution for the United States or Arizona does it state that a permit is required.

At the Constitutional Convention in 1912, mention of it was made, and shot down quickly. AZ government has held on ever since, saying it was implied. What BS.

In the end, right now, get it, as you'll eleviate other carry concerns including the batton. However, I still feel it's a way for the state to charge for a right that is guarenteed. The area I feel the strongest about as a social worker are the poor abused women, who need a gun more than any of us, and can't afford the CCW fees.

Remember, gun control is minority control. Always has and always will.

texas bulldog
July 17, 2009, 11:13 AM
i see no drawbacks at all to having a carry permit. get it.

Birdmang
July 17, 2009, 11:15 AM
I wish I could get one!

Maybe some day.

cyclopsshooter
July 17, 2009, 11:18 AM
its easy here and somewhat serves as a good ol boy card... indicating to leos that you have a clean record and are not a trouble maker

Deanimator
July 17, 2009, 11:20 AM
I can't IMAGINE a bigger downside to HAVING the legal ability to carry a defensive firearm (or other tool) than that of NOT being able to defend myself when necessary.

NOT being able to defend yourself gets you on a list. It's called the "obituary column".

Schutzen
July 17, 2009, 11:23 AM
Yes, get a permit. Even if you do not carry regularly, it tells the politicians that there are a large numbers of constituents that favor firearms rights.

mcdonl
July 17, 2009, 11:26 AM
In a word... yes.

What schutzen said in post 17

LRaccuracy
July 17, 2009, 11:32 AM
It's worth it. If you EVER want to carry a handgun, you will have your permit and don't have to wait for one if you really need one. Remember... never go to a gunfight without a gun. Most people that are in gunfights don't plan on being in one. Even cops don't plan on being in gunfights.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not paranoid because I carry a gun. I don't have to be.

preachnhunt
July 17, 2009, 11:51 AM
Yes,get one. Here in Ky.we had a bad ice storm last winter(probably not as common in Az.) and were without power for 2 weeks. The roads were closed as were all stores etc. It was a good time to enjoy the comfort of being able to defend yourself. If some kind of disaster,natural or otherwise, hits your area you'll be glad you prepared ahead.

22-rimfire
July 17, 2009, 11:54 AM
I got my permit initially so that I could have a loaded handgun legally in my vehicle. I never wanted to carry daily. I still only selectively carry.

Negatives? So far I have found no negatives other than you have to pay for the training and permit. I generally feel that a concealed carry permit should not be required to carry. But in the current political climate, it is a reasonable tradeoff.

TheProf
July 17, 2009, 11:55 AM
Get the permit.

1. It allows you to carry concealead...should you need to in the future. You would not be waiting on a permit...for you already have it. Remember, when you need to carry a weapon...you really need it. And waiting for months for the paperwork to get done is way too long a wait. Get the permit BEFORE you need it.

2. Sometimes, a person may inadvertently be breaking a law without a permit. This usually happens due to ignorance. Example: A guy thinks that it is ok to carry a nunchaku because everyone knows that it is just "two sticks tied together by a rope". Surely, it is ok to carry wooden sticks in your pocket. Right?? Well, in many states, that would be considered a deadly weapon and to carry concealed without a permit is crime.

3. When stopped by LEO, most LEO consider a "concealed permit" a sign that you have been checked out and not a felon. Most mature LEO breathe a sigh of relief when drivers voluntarily produce their concealed permits during a "routine" traffic stop. (Unfortunately, as in all professions, there are rookie LEO that immaturely view their gun as a status symbol and thus resent civilians from packing. The good news is that when they gain some street experience, they start arming their wives, elderly parents, and also realize that other good citizens need to be armed too.)

In summary....get a permit.

ThrottleJockey72
July 17, 2009, 12:01 PM
I am going to say YES. Additionally, did you expect anyone on a pro 2A forum to actually say anything else? Perhaps if you are looking for any minuscule downside, you may find it on the Brady site. Since you are HERE asking, I would guess you are already decided and just need a little push.

glassman
July 17, 2009, 12:04 PM
I don't think you'll find anyone on this forum who will tell you not to get it.

googol
July 17, 2009, 12:12 PM
I gotta believe that having a concealed carry permit puts a person on the radar screen. Any thoughts ?

If you pay taxes, drive a car, or use a cell phone, you are already squarely on the radar screen. Carrying a CCW won't matter much unless the "Red Dawn" scenario goes down, in which case the Occupation Forces will track you down and put you up against a wall.

Get the permit. Mine doesn't make me feel invulnerable, but it does ease that feeling of utter helplessness in the face of a true threat. That comfort makes it worthwhile to jump through a few hoops and fork over a few bucks.

mcdonl
July 17, 2009, 12:13 PM
Carrying a CCW won't matter much unless the "Red Dawn" scenario goes down, in which case the Occupation Forces will track you down and put you up against a wall.

But that is why we have AR's, AK's and an ammo stash right?

Vern Humphrey
July 17, 2009, 12:15 PM
It may be initially that police looked askance at permit holders. But now common sense has taken hold. If the cop knows you have a CHL, he knows who you are -- that is, a person with no criminal record, who has been checked out. In fact, CHL studies show CHL holders are less likely to commit crimes than cops!!

Here in Arkansas, the State Police vigorously opposed the CHL law when it was first being debated. After a few years experience with it, that has all changed. When common-sense changes to the law are being proposed, reducing the restrictions on CHL holders, the State Police usually show up and testify on our behalf.

snorky18
July 17, 2009, 12:16 PM
Is a concealed carry permit worth it ?

Haha, on this forum I'd say that's about like asking "Should I buy another gun?", and you see what kind of answer you'll get. :neener:

Since these guys have told you all the good, I'll be Chicken Little and tell you potential negative consequences:

1)Depending on your state, CCP records may or may not be public record. Back in my motherland (the beautiful state of TN) a major newspaper published an internet search-able database of all the TN CCP holders, including addresses at first.

Some would call that a shopping list for gun thieves, others say thieves may avoid those homes for fear of being shot. Either way, just know there is a chance (albeit a small one) that your permit may become public record at some point, and ask yourself if that could affect you in anyway. (For instance, do you work for a really nosy and invasive boss who is extremely antigun?)

2)Your family / significant other may or may not be supportive. My spouse if fine with it, across the family the opinions vary. Many of them may not even know I carry (the antis :barf:), although they all know I shoot regularly.

3)You have to learn and implement some laws, which are sometimes quirky, obscure, and inconvenient. As an example, no concealed weapons allowed in NC where admission is charged to an event. So dinner and a movie with the significant other, you have to remember to leave your firearm in the car (theft risk) or leave it at home.

Going to have a glass of wine with dinner at a restaurant? Can't carry. Going to any restaurant that serves alcohol for consumption for dinner? Depending on state law you may not be able to carry there, so leave it at home or in the car at the restaurant. (Guess where a lot of guns are stolen from in NC.... cars in parking lots at restaurants that serve alcohol of course).

Traveling on a multistate vacation in the car with your weapon? Lots of homework to do on the states you are driving through in terms of permit reciprocity, and applicable laws. www.handgunlaw.us is great for that. You come to NC or any other state with quirky gun laws and you're carrying, you're responsible for knowing those quirky laws for the state you are in, and following them.

4)If you buy into the big brother conspiracies, the gubermint now has you on a list as a gun owner. OTOH, wouldn't that be a decent % of households in America, whether or not they have a CCP? What if they decide all known gun owners are "terrorists", and you get put on the watch list, along with half the rest of the country. Remember, it's the government, it doesn't have to make sense for them to do it ;)

5)Have anyone at your house besides you ever? Kids/grandkids, etc? Have to keep it locked up or on you at all times.

6)It's a major responsibility, and in the unlikely event you ever use it, it can become a huge liability. You can be in the right, cleared of any wrongdoing whatsoever, and still drop $20,000+++ in a hurry on legal fees, then six figures on a civil suit depending on the state laws. But if a situation was bad enough for you to use it, legal fees beats your family cutting a check to the mortician, right?

That's the end of the list.

At the airports it's never made a difference, during traffic stops it helps if anything (IIRC depending on your state the police may know you have a CCP when they run your plates, which isn't a bad thing in most cases)

Only time I've ever been hassled about it was crossing the border into Canada, story of mine from a few years back:

My last trip into Canada, they gave me the 3rd degree at the border crossing into Canada near Buffalo despite the fact that I was not carrying any weapons, concealed or otherwise, in the car.

I assume they ran my plates and somehow that linked up and told them I had a concealed carry permit? I certainly didn't bring up my CC Permit. Maybe they were just stereotyping people from TN that day, who knows.

Border Guard: Do you have any weapons or firearms in the car?
Me: No sir.
BG: Are you sure?
Me: Absolutely positive.
BG: If you have any in the car you can declare them, leave them here, and pick them up on your way back.
Me: OK.
BG: We can search your car, and if you are caught bringing any into Canada you will be arrested, weapon seized, car seized, forced to walk the plank, surrender your firstborn child, blah, blah
Me: (annoyed by this point:fire:) OK.
BG: Now I'm going to ask you one more time. Do you have any weapons in your car.
Me: Nope, still don't

Every other time I've crossed, they usually ask what I'm doing (visiting family), how long I'll be there, where I'm from, maybe even smile, and then tell me to have a nice day. Not sure what that guy's deal was.

But overall, to me, the permit is worth it beyond the shadow of a doubt. Even if you didn't use it much, it's not really hurting you in any way if you don't carry.

Vern Humphrey
July 17, 2009, 12:22 PM
Back in my motherland (the beautiful state of TN) a major newspaper published an internet search-able database of all the TN CCP holders, including addresses at first.

There is a particularly obnoxious left-wing publication in Arkansas, Arkansas Times, that did the same thing. Whereupon Arkansas CHL holders put up the name, address and home phone number of the flack who did it. After a day or so, he took down the site. Seems people were calling him at home to complain.

ceetee
July 17, 2009, 12:26 PM
We still live in a nation of laws, and if you're required in your area to have a permit to carry a weapon, then by all means obey the law and get the permit. For years I carried a weapon in any way I was legally allowed to - when I got my permit it was like gates opening up, giving me many more ways to carry. Now, any time I go out, I feel I'm much more able to defend myself, my family, and my friends than before. Personally, I wouldn't rely on a baton for self-defense - the reasons have already been given. But once you have the permit, you will (at the least) have more options available to you than just a baton.

snorky18
July 17, 2009, 12:33 PM
There is a particularly obnoxious left-wing publication in Arkansas, Arkansas Times, that did the same thing. Whereupon Arkansas CHL holders put up the name, address and home phone number of the flack who did it. After a day or so, he took down the site. Seems people were calling him at home to complain.

I believe some of the gun bloggers published the same info for editors etc. of the Memphis paper as well, but the database is still live even today.

obnoxious left-wing publication

Obnoxious, left-wing, and publication (ie newspaper). Isn't that a triple redundancy? :neener:

CoRoMo
July 17, 2009, 12:37 PM
Sometimes I blink with bewilderment at the reality that I used to go about daily life unarmed.

It would be a lot like continuing through my daily activities with gasoline soaked clothing.

Deanimator
July 17, 2009, 12:37 PM
There is a particularly obnoxious left-wing publication in Arkansas, Arkansas Times, that did the same thing. Whereupon Arkansas CHL holders put up the name, address and home phone number of the flack who did it. After a day or so, he took down the site. Seems people were calling him at home to complain.
The same thing happened to the editor of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. He actually seemed SURPRISED that this would happen.

Happened in Sandusky too, I think. A LOT of personal information about the culprits was published online.

Flintknapper
July 17, 2009, 12:38 PM
I've had mine for 12 years, (Texas). No problems, get yours.

snorky18
July 17, 2009, 12:49 PM
Personally, I wouldn't rely on a baton for self-defense - the reasons have already been given. But once you have the permit, you will (at the least) have more options available to you than just a baton.

I wouldn't necessairly leave the baton at home just b/c you have a gun, as it's really nice to have some intermediete force options (scalloped flashlight, pepper spray, baton, etc.) between your bare hands and a handgun.

Couple months ago while walking my dog around a family member's large fenced yard, late at night, urban area, a big agressive dog comes running through the only open gate on the whole acre of property, and starts coming towards us. A bright flashlight beam to the eyes drove it off when it was about 60' away, but it occurred to me that if that hadn't work my only other options were physical contact with it, or shooting it. My pepper spray was in my car :banghead:

Shooting it, although legal under the circumstances, would have woken the entire neighborhood, police come out, my grandmother wakes up to the sound of a gun going off outside her window, the neighbor gets pissed b/c you killed their poor innocent little :scrutiny:(120+LB) dog that would have never hurt a fly and they're sure it was tied up in their yard, and it was actually a $5000 champion show dog, blah blah, you get the idea.

Guns and more
July 17, 2009, 12:50 PM
Sometimes you just need to stand up for your rights. (or else they will be gone.)
What better message could we send Washington than to have 40 million CCW permits?

FlyinBryan
July 17, 2009, 12:51 PM
Are you put on a special list ?
i dont think so, but if we are here in texas, thats one heck of a list. i honestly dont care.

During a traffic stop are you treated differently than a citizen without a permit ?

in my only 2 encounters i have been treated better. once was in an apartment parking lot where the cop (dallas police officer) actually parked his cruiser and stayed and chatted about 30 minutes. i was carrying an aluminum framed commander sized 1911 and he was quite smitten by it. he took the pistol and asked if it was loaded, and i said yes, with one in the chamber. he dropped the mag, handed it to me, and removed the round from the chamber and handed that to me. this was not in an effort to keep the situation safe for himself, but because he just wanted to check the gun out. i could tell that after just a few minutes he was completly comfortable with the situation. he went on and on about how the department wouldnt allow 1911's to be carried by on duty personel. he just loved it, and commented several times about how light it was and how easily it pointed. after about 5 mins or so he handed it back to me while continuing to talk. he never even really broke his stride in the conversation as he did. he said i could go ahead and rechamber and reholster, which i did. he stayed and we talked about how we were both raised around firearms. turned out his dad had taught him the ropes long before he ever even thought about being a cop, as did mine. he said he was looking into buying a new firearm to carry while off duty, and that it would be a lightweight commander.

it was really nice, and i felt great the rest of the day.

and one thing that i left out, he never asked for my permit. in fact, i offered it up, and he just grinned and said "dont worry about it, i already trust you.

it has crossed my mind that before he ever approached me that he had ran my plates, and new i had one.

Vern Humphrey
July 17, 2009, 01:05 PM
Obnoxious, left-wing, and publication (ie newspaper). Isn't that a triple redundancy?
Not to lead this thread off target, but Arkansas Times is a special case. It used to be a real magazine with subscribers, but has degenerated into one of those freebie rags you see lying around at airports and fast food joints.

The editorial staff has a fixation with homosexuality -- but can't figure out of they're for it or agin it. They love to label anyone to the right of Karl Marx as homosexual, but at the same time are quick to pin the bigot label on anyone else who would do that. There is currently pending an initiative to put the Right to Hunt in the Arkansas Constitution. They did an editorial where they said this would lead to a Deliverance-type situation, where hillbillies (how can you live in Arkansas and be anti-hillbilly?) would be homosexually raping tourists.

Anyhow, publishing the home address and home phone number of the miscreant soon brought a dose of reality -- albeit temporarialy -- to the editors.

HoosierQ
July 17, 2009, 01:29 PM
I would not be without one and would not live in a state where I couldn't get one...if I could help it. I suppose somebody gives he $100million I'd move to Illinois but with that kind of cash I could keep a house in Indiana or Florida and that'd be that.

GBExpat
July 17, 2009, 01:45 PM
Is a concealed carry permit worth it ?

Absolutely ... I got my first carry permit in VaBeach in April'75 and have been legally carrying on & off ever since. Never a hassle.

Ironically, back in '79, the one time that I got jumped at ~3am as I was leaving via the employee entrance of the place I worked in Norfolk, I beat heck out of the guy with my ubiquitous 6-C-cell KelLight (predecessor of the MagLight). At that place, my boss told me that firearms were forbidden so the KelLight was my personal security tool. Thank goodness, the fellow was stupid enough to simply grab me from behind and quickly found himself bleeding, screaming & running for his life ... <chuckle>

Lou McGopher
July 17, 2009, 03:30 PM
Lists? Not really, unless some stupid reporter decides to access public records and publish all permit holders in the local paper.

Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but if a newspaper here was doing that (and one was a while ago), I'd volunteer to come down, and have them take my picture as long as they captioned it "This is (my name), and he carries a gun." Then they could put a video on their website of me doing quick draws and hitting COM on silhouettes at 25 yards. Now, maybe the criminal element in society wouldn't read the paper that day, but if they did, they'd know better than to mess with me if they saw me.

Edit:

Maybe more permit holders should take advantage of the publicity? It shouldn't be hard to use this publication tactic against those employing it. Turn it around for our advantage.

FiREhAwk
July 17, 2009, 03:53 PM
I didnt like having to submit my fingerprints into "The System" It kinda makes you feel like you are a criminal or they are expecting that you are going to commit a crime. Also in the extreme case of a gun ban w/o a GF clause people with CCW's will draw alot of heat. One of the people who took the class with me still hasnt applied because he sees it as defato registration and only criminals should have to give fingerprints. (I know that most cops and anyone taken to jail who are not convicted must also give prints.) On the plus side, In my 8 yrs of driving I was given a ticket every time I was pulled for something. Earlier this year I was pulled over and given a warning for the first time, and I think the ccw had something to do with it, as I have been ticketed for much minor violations.

mrt949
July 17, 2009, 04:52 PM
YES .In my experience in life those that have them are responsible people. They think before they do something STUPID.:D

Vern Humphrey
July 17, 2009, 04:57 PM
I suppose somebody gives he $100million I'd move to Illinois
With that kind of money, you could buy a dozen Chicago aldermen with your pocket change, and they'd get you a permit.

Aw4g63
July 17, 2009, 05:09 PM
Had my Ohio CCW since it was passed. I have no cons, only pros. Haven't gotten a ticket since.

I also see no pros to carrying a baton. Seems like you're putting yourself in danger and yielding a civil suit in the process. Carry a spray if you're not comfortable with a gun. You're not going to put distance on an attacker with an asp.

Vern Humphrey
July 17, 2009, 05:14 PM
I also see no pros to carrying a baton. Seems like you're putting yourself in danger and yielding a civil suit in the process. Carry a spray if you're not comfortable with a gun. You're not going to put distance on an attacker with an asp.

There's an old saying; "Sure as smackin' 'em with an ASP."

No, that's not it. Maybe. "Sure as sprayin' 'em with OC?"

That doesn't sound right, either. Someone help me out.

TheProf
July 17, 2009, 05:28 PM
And to add to my original list...here is reason #4 why you should get a permit...

#4. Because you need to carry ALWAYS. (Within bounds of the law.) Get the permit and wherever you are allowed to carry... carry your weapon with you. Think of it as "insurance" against criminals. Remember....criminals don't make appointments. They attack at the most unexpected times.

Guns are true equalizers...allowing a 120 pound woman to defend herself against a determined 200 pound attacker.

bigfatdave
July 17, 2009, 07:40 PM
Just go through the hassle of getting it now, rather than go through the hassle of getting it after you decide you need it.
Seriously, it isn't that hard.

DeepSouth
July 17, 2009, 07:58 PM
During a traffic stop are you treated differently than a citizen without a permit ?

Yep, I have not gotten a ticket that I probably would have gotten a couple times befor. The LEO sometimes tends to forget about the 'minor' offences (Seatbelt, speeding violation) and suddenly wants to check out your guns or other weapons (and your licence) to see if they are stolen or whatever. When he gets through checking things out he often
A: has forgotten about the minor violation
B: decides you must be one of the good guys
C: is low on time and ready to go home.
I don't what it is but around here having a legal weapon and a permit will make thing go more smoothly (but will last longer) in your average traffic stop, so long as you are polite, civil, ect.

I'll also say this is certainly a location specific thing. LEO's in LA will act different from LEO's in Alabama.

btg3
July 17, 2009, 08:05 PM
I know one person who took the CWP class, got fingerprinted and put the whole application package together, but decided not to submit it. The reasoning was along the line of not needing it, b/c in our state you may have a loaded gun in your glove box, motel room, home.

mljdeckard
July 17, 2009, 08:12 PM
In Utah, they only know if you're a permit holder when they run your license, not your plate. And Utah just dropped the "must inform" statute, so we don't have to tell them if we don't want to.

I've gotten out of a lot of tickets because of cops who were more interested in my gun than my driving.

Keep in mind, every traffic stop is an opportunity to get a bigger arrest. Smell of alcohol, pop up on a warrant, things like this. The more people police pull over, the more likely they are to happen across a collar. When they see your permit, they know that they probably aren't going to have any more fun with you that night, so they let you go and keep looking.

Yo Mama
July 17, 2009, 08:13 PM
I love how everyone but myself has gotten out of a ticket with a CCW. When I got pulled over last time, Officer looks at it, and says nice sub-compact. It was my birthday, on the way to work, and in the HOV lane. No deal, recieved ticket, and gun back with chambered round out of the gun in the holster with the gun on top. Very nice Officer, but just finished driving school.

saltydog452
July 17, 2009, 08:19 PM
I didn't think it was worth it. In fact, I figured that I had the right granted from a higher authority and did not need, or want, permission of the state.

That was before I was pulled over for an Improper Lane Change. The nice Police Offricer asks if she can search my vehicle...sure thing, go ahead Ma'm.

There was a weapon within arms reach, my truck was hauled off to do time in the pound, I was hauled off to spend the night in jail. Bail Bondsman fee, Attorney fee, the cost to get my truck out of hock, Fine, and most important, the history of an arrest for a weapons violation.

Arrest history has nothing to do with conviction...just that you were accused of a crime. Thats enough to cause problems that you'd never become aware of. Arrest record is accessable to the public. Credit ratings, prospective employer background checks, etc., stuff like that.

So, yeah, I'd say now that it would be a good idea to get your State approved permit.

Lots of folks have worked long and hard to get this in the open as a 'shall issue' as opposed to preferential consideration.

Do it.

salty

inSight-NEO
July 17, 2009, 08:43 PM
Is it worth it? Thats entirely subjective (hence, up to you and you alone). Therefore, Im not going to say whether you should or should not get such a license.

But, I will offer this:

The CC permit/license simply offers more flexibility...should you need it. As has been mentioned before, whether or not you actually carry and/or take advantage of the license is entirely up to you. But, having the license itself at least gives you a legal option. Without it your options are limited, legally speaking. To me, this alone is justification enough.

Of course, I have a friend of mine who will NEVER have such a license as he believes its just one step closer to "the man" knowing he owns a firearm. But, he is somewhat of a conspiracy theorist, so I take what he has to say with a grain of salt.

evan price
July 17, 2009, 09:10 PM
My CCW and EDC are like that old American Express tagline- "Don't leave home without it!"

No minuses. Only pluses. Even if you don't "need" your CCW, get one anyway if you can- it gets the number of issued permits up in your state. More permits = more "mainstream" and less likely to be marginalized.

Rimmer
July 17, 2009, 09:44 PM
I guess my response is a bit different than most.
I got my conceal license a few years back when Ohio passed the law allowing them. Did the training and even became an NRA certified instructor and taught classes. Like many I avoided a couple tickets because of it.

Fast forward a few years. The laws were changed, for the better I believe but I wasn't able to keep up with them in my state as well as adjoining states that I had a permit to carry in. I also traveled to Pennsylvania and Michigan often for my work and needed to be up on current law for each state. My renewal was due and I never managed to get it done so it expired.

For whatever reason I somehow felt relieved that I no longer had to notify LE if I was stopped. Although I haven't been in several years now. I wasn't stashing it in the glove box to go have lunch someplace that server booze or other places that were a no-carry business. And probably the best reason is I moved to a smaller rural community 2 years ago. Crime is zip around here. Everyone owns several firearms and shoots regularly at any number of local ranges. I probably know half the locals now by name.

Having said all that, I do believe in tight home security and am always aware of my surroundings and I do not kid myself that I am safe when shopping or even getting gas. I work long hours and am not out after dark at all. I'm sleeping.

So is it worth having a permit? It depends on your lifestyle. Where you live and the hours you keep.

Just my ol 2

The Lone Haranguer
July 17, 2009, 09:59 PM
Minor thread drift:

That was before I was pulled over for an Improper Lane Change. The nice Police Offricer asks if she can search my vehicle...sure thing, go ahead Ma'm.

I'll bet you won't do that again. ;)

Back to the subject:

I do disagree that a permit should be required to exercise what should be a constitutional right, but this is not currently the reality we live in. A CCW is a compromise.

thorazine
July 17, 2009, 10:17 PM
I am a rifle guy, don't own any handguns.

Well it's about time you change that.

Get permit.
Get handgun.
Make trip to walmart.

ktmmudd
July 17, 2009, 11:40 PM
Also in Ohio, having the CHL makes it much easier to transport the gun in your car. No need to have the gun and ammo separated and not both accessible inside the car like you are required to do without the CHL.

springmom
July 17, 2009, 11:46 PM
The CHL is worth it if for no other reason than NICS checks are nonexistent. Find a new gun you want, fill out the paperwork, whip out both sets of ID, and Bob's yer uncle.

Which reminds me, I need to start the paperwork for my renewal....

Jan

model of 1905
July 18, 2009, 12:01 AM
I am in Arizona and an NRA certified instructor and CCW instructor.

You are treated differently by police. They know you have been checked out by ATFE, FBI, the state, the county and, if you live in an incorporated area, the local police. They know you have a clean record. I was recently stopped by DPS (wannabe CHIPs). He never even asked me to look at my gun. He did ask me to leave it in my truck while I went back to his car for him to write a warning (i'm sure without the permit I would have gotten a ticket).

In Arizona, if you have a pickup rifle scabbard built into a front seat cover of a pickup, you are carrying concealed. If you have a loaded rifle anywhere in a vehicle that isn't plainly visible, you are carrying concealed. It is very easy to get crossed up.

Further, if you have a permit there is no background check when you buy a gun. You have already been checked and DPS updates its database daily. It eliminates the phone call and dance that go on when you buy a gun.

The training is an abridged version of the NRA basic pistol and personal protection course with a heavy emphasis on state law and individual rights and consequences of self defense. But, it is worthwhile. You come away with a clear understanding of when you may use deadly force and what to expect in the aftermath.

The cost is relatively cheap in most places in the state. Considering what it cost me to get the many hours of training to become an instructor and the time investment, the classes are dirt cheap.

I run classes of different levels. For entry level pistoleros we offer a program that earns four NRA certificates and a CCW permit qualification. It costs quite a bit more than the standard CCW program, but it offers a lot more. Among what it does is it demonstrates training in four different aspects of training to be proficient with a handgun. If you ever have to go to court you can show a wealth of training and qualifications to accompany your CCW training.

Carrying a concealed weapon is a huge responsibility. I disagree with the baton for self defense, however. Depending on it as a weapon means you will engage in hand-to-hand combat if you are ever required to use it. If that is the case you will be injured. If you win you may only be slightly injured, but if you lose you will certainly be severely injured.

It's kind of like carrying a knife for self defense. The only thing it guarantees is that you are going to bleed...
Hand to hand combat is likely in a bad breath self defense scenario and a CCW should not only be prepared for it but should be prepared to use it aggressively and instantaneiously in such a manner to WIN. If you carry a gun and arent ready to fight, rethink. And as far as carrying a knife, read above. I always carry two and if need be I will use a knife violently to defend myself. If I bleed or am injured but survive and win, well isn't that the desired result?

model of 1905
July 18, 2009, 12:03 AM
Also as an instuctor if you aren't teaching your students that they need to take every possible action to defend themselves, you are doing them a disservice.

southwest1
July 18, 2009, 01:30 AM
The story I am about to tell you is actually quite similar to, and was not far from, and about two years later than an incident in the Northern Arizona woods. In that incident, a man shot a transient with aggressive dogs in the woods. That man, went to jail for doing so and was just released. Google Harold Fish.

In the same neck of the woods I was hiking on a trail with my family and two dogs. One dog was a 10 year old German Shorthair pointer (a 90 lb muscle laden beauty), the other was a six month old Lab/Husky mix.

My wife, daughter and son accompanied me and the two dogs on a Sunday morning. About a mile off the road we encountered a transient, not menancing, very thin, probably a tweaker. He had 5 unleased Pit bulls with him. Our dogs were leashed. The dogs made a bee-line for my Shorthair. My dog is not aggressive but if provoked will fight. The alpha male pitbull raised his head up and challenged my dog. A vicious fight ensued. The two dogs locked jaws, literally. Meanwhile the other four Pits, one adult and three junveniles bit at the Shorthair's hindquarters. The leash was tangled around me.

Stop and ask yourself..What would I do ?

Anyway, I yelled to my family to take our puppy and run down the trail and get away from this very bad situation. They did so, the other Pitbulls did not follow them. So now it is me and my Shorthair against the transient and his 5 Pit Bulls. Keep in mind, if I got bit trying to free my dog, I could bleed out before help (at least 30 minutes away) could reach me.

The transient was a burn out, he had no weapon, just worthless. The guy had no leashes to hook up the dogs. At this point, I was almost resigned that I had to sacrifice my beloved Shorthair to save my family. I picked up a stick and beat the other four pit bulls off my dog's hind quarters. I have to say with a bit of pride, my Shorthair held his own. I was able to get the dogs to break the jaw lock. No blood was evident so I took my dog and ran up the mountain. The transient went on his way.

Once the adrenaline wore off, my dog starts bleeding from the hole in his head where the Pitbull chomped down. He has made a full recovery.

I go hiking up there all the time, I own a place close by. And that is why I want a baton. Deadly force was not justified in that situation. I had that Harold Fish story in mind during the whole ordeal. I am curious if any of you would have done things differently.

jim in Anchorage
July 18, 2009, 01:56 AM
Their are states that require a permit?:confused:

GBExpat
July 18, 2009, 10:38 AM
...I go hiking up there all the time, I own a place close by. And that is why I want a baton. Deadly force was not justified in that situation. I had that Harold Fish story in mind during the whole ordeal. I am curious if any of you would have done things differently.

I would have shot dead the alpha male Pitbull ... and then waited to see if I had to also shoot any of the other Pitbulls.

Vern Humphrey
July 18, 2009, 11:56 AM
I know one person who took the CWP class, got fingerprinted and put the whole application package together, but decided not to submit it. The reasoning was along the line of not needing it, b/c in our state you may have a loaded gun in your glove box, motel room, home.
The reason Texas has a shall issue law is because of the killings in Luby's Cafeteria in Kileen, Texas. Dr. Susan Gratia-Hupp was there with her parents when the killer came in. She had a gun, but under Texas law as it then was the gun had to be left in her glove box. She could do nothing as the killer shot her father. When her mother cradled the dying man's head in her lap, the killer shot her in the head.

It was Dr. Gratia-Hupp's testimony before the Texas Legislature that persuaded them to pass the bill.

btg3
July 18, 2009, 02:22 PM
She had a gun, but under Texas law as it then was the gun had to be left in her glove box.
I see that TX law now allows CC in restaurants depending on how much alcohol is consumed on-premises. This seems to be a better arrangement than states that allow no CC if any alcohol is consumed on-premises.

Vern Humphrey
July 18, 2009, 02:44 PM
I see that TX law now allows CC in restaurants depending on how much alcohol is consumed on-premises. This seems to be a better arrangement than states that allow no CC if any alcohol is consumed on-premises.
It's a very good arrangement, indeed. Texas keeps getting better and better.

kda
July 18, 2009, 07:14 PM
CCW a good idea? Most certainly. And three cheers to those who not only get their permit but actually make a point out of exercising that right to carry. My wife went from being ambivalent about handguns to a licensed CCW who now carries all the time, every time.

Several things helped me take her in that direction. In AZ, home invasions and assaults are becoming more common every day, often more than one a week in the city where I live. And they are not by some unarmed cat burglar that slips in an open window while you are away, they are small groups that kick in doors whether anyone is home or not. If that isn't the case where you live, just give it time. Our country is changing and changing rapidly.

Reading the newspaper accounts put my wife on edge. Then we sat down and watched the Crimson Trace CD together and she saw that self defense is not something impossibly scary but something very much worth considering ... and practicing. A trip to the indoor range where she could see all sorts of shooters from young girls to white haired seniors firing their handguns convinced her that handguns were not just for young thugs, but for people who have made up their mind they don't want to be prey for those young thugs.

She quickly became a very good shot and passed her CCW course with ease. I know I worry less about her when I am not with her. And now that she understands all this, she worries less about me too.

And we have a hobby we can enjoy together ... recreational shooting to keep our skills up.

I am not aware of any downsides to concealed carry.

btg3
July 18, 2009, 08:59 PM
... small groups that kick in doors whether anyone is home or not. If that isn't the case where you live, just give it time.
You are on the mark. It's also easy to crash thru garage doors and sledge hammer windows. The boldness and aggression is, and will continue to increase. Especially under economic stress, and if the hope in our president should fade. No question that there are some groups that feel prosperity is a right, and if not given to them, they will take what they want.

Vern Humphrey
July 18, 2009, 09:11 PM
Especially under economic stress, and if the hope in our president should fade.
Then we're screwed, big time.:o

1-UP
July 18, 2009, 10:04 PM
I keep thinking about getting one, just not quite there yet.

I believe the class costs something in the neighborhood of $150 in my area. It's not a princely sum, but it's enough to carry some weight to it, particularly because I'm not 100%clear yet on if I'll have to spend this money every time renewal comes up.

My main problem is there will rarely be an occasion where I can carry. I work in a school district so that eliminates the vast majority of my time. I like to have a beer or two when I go out to eat, same if I'm visiting friends or family. That eliminates more opportunity. Basically, I'd only have it when I'm doing walking/hiking/exercising (and I question how comfortable it would be) or grocery shopping.

Dogbite
July 18, 2009, 10:30 PM
I am a rifle guy, don't own any handguns. I was at a local gun show and bought one of those telescopic batons. In doing some research, I found out it is OK to carry the baton in plain site, but if I keep it in my car or stuff it into a pocket I need a concealed carry permit. That got me thinking, it may not be a bad idea to get one, training is probably pretty good.

For those of you that have such a permit, what are the drawbacks ? Are you put on a special list ? Do you get checked more carefully at airports ? During a traffic stop are you treated differently than a citizen without a permit ?

I gotta believe that having a concealed carry permit puts a person on the radar screen. Any thoughts ?

Is it worth it ?

Oh yes its worth it. I have been carrying concealed about 7 years or so. If anything, it would tell a cop that you are squeaky clean, because you are checked every which way by federal and state before your are issued one. I have never, ever had a problem with anyone, including cops, anywhere. I heed the rules of concealed carry, and don't carry where I'm not supposed to. There have been a handful of times I was very glad I had my permit, and a gun concealed on my person. I see it as just another way to be prepared for anything. I want to be in charge of my own personal defense. Airports don't check you anymore than anyone else, but of course you don't carry to airports or Gov buildings, etc.. There are no drawbacks to ccw. Its a gun in the hand of one more good guy.

Isher
July 19, 2009, 01:04 AM
......Testicles, spectacles, wallet and watch..........

Don't leave home without them.

To which I might add your

Driver's license and your ccw permit.

And an appropriate weapon.

Now, as to Constitutional issues, back in the bad old days

So far as I know there was never any

Licensing issue with regard to riding a horse.

Nor, in the same time period, to carrying a gun.

Lately, there is a tax on damn near everything.

All that ccw is, is a tax.

It has nothing to do with either the citizen's morals

Or the constitution.

Yeah, they check you for felonies.

So. You are a felon. And you know it.

So you are going to apply for a CCW?

Self defeating logic, to say the least.

At the end of the day, for the honest people,

Just another revenue stream for the gummint.


isher

JackFunTeach
July 19, 2009, 08:40 AM
Even if you don't conceal carry now, it is great to have it. There is no telling what the future may bring. I believe we are only a few steps away from a total break down of national and world peace. Better to have it and not need it and the other way around. And even on a simple unexpected future event like having a friend or relative give you hand gun as a gift or bequeath item passed on.

IMHO opinion I conceal carry 7/24/365, and am proud to do so. As a school teacher, I can't carry to work, govt buildings, but where it's legal I carry. A lot of my co-teachers carry, too. A lot of weird things happen to teachers. There was one time when the shot teacher was in a real bad situation 300 miles into the woods of Norther Maine. He was confronted with 6 guys that were going to jack his Harley and do some severe personal injury to him. Dave ended that situation with his personal protection M & P 40 S&W. I am very certain that if he didn't have his conceal carry, he may not be teaching anymore youngsters anymore. Anyway, best of luck to your decision, but I would get my conceal carry permit before they make it more difficult to do so.

Jack

Vern Humphrey
July 19, 2009, 09:30 AM
Getting a concealed handgun license and carrying is like registering to vote -- it is exercising a civil right. Civil rights are like anything else -- use 'em or lose 'em.

DFW1911
July 19, 2009, 10:14 AM
Yes, it's worth it.

YMMV

Thanks,
DFW1911

If you enjoyed reading about "Is a concealed carry permit worth it ?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!