Is this real?


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Nate1778
July 18, 2009, 11:49 PM
Saw this a ways back, but I always wander if it was real. It would seem shooting a steel plate would make the bullet disintegrate, not bounce directly back at the guy. How is this possible. I can understand it bouncing off and heading in a different direction, but back at him. Can someone explain this to me and how the bullet survives the initial impact.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc

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ByAnyMeans
July 18, 2009, 11:55 PM
I have no explanation but it has been posted before and appears to be true. A search should pull up a previous thread with the answer for you.

chris in va
July 18, 2009, 11:56 PM
I've seen the video many times, but curious about that myself, especially with a 50BMG.

DeepSouth
July 18, 2009, 11:59 PM
I have often wondered if whatever he hit exploded from impact an shrapnel is what actually came back at him. what ever it is you can see it hit the ground right in front of him before it gets to him.

I don't really think the video is fake but I do question whether or not the projectile is what came back after him. Either way he is fortunate.

teekay
July 19, 2009, 12:01 AM
If it is - that'd be some serious pucker factor.

From the citation -- 6/27/2007 (http://www.madogre.com/Archives/June%202007.htm)
6-27-07: BOOM HEADSHOT! This is amazing. Willie, the father of Tina, who made the sandbag rests fires a .50BMG, an Armalite AR-50 and it ricochets off of a steel plate that it should have easily penetrated. The bullet comes straight back and hits him in the head. You can see it hit the dirt about 15 feet in front on him before it clobbers him. Luckily he was uninjured. He's a bit sore today, but otherwise fine. Lucky lucky bastard. He has been advised to buy lottery tickets while he still has so much luck. I don't know about the timing, but you can hear the hit on the steel plate. Time that till the impact on Willie's head... how fast is that 750 grain slug traveling? The range is 100 yards. Amazing.

-TK

hso
July 19, 2009, 12:07 AM
Try shooting a little steel and you'll find out it's real enough.

Yes, rounds ricochet. They ricochet especially well off of hard surfaces like steel and sometimes they'll ricochet right back at you.

That's just another reason to wear safety glasses.

MattTheHat
July 19, 2009, 12:08 AM
About 10 years ago, I had a .357 Magnum bullet, fired from a lever action Marlin rifle fracture upon impacting an old (probably 100 years or older) Bois D'Arc fence post and come straight back to me and hit me below the left eye. Fortunately, I was not injured, but I came away from the experience with two pieces of information:

1. Bois D'Arc wood is hard (it's in the Ebony family)
2. When you shoot at something very hard, there's at least some chance of a ricochet or bullet fragment coming back at you.

YMMV,


-Matt

Phydeaux642
July 19, 2009, 12:09 AM
That's just another reason to wear safety glasses.

And a helmet.

SASS#23149
July 19, 2009, 12:18 AM
You'd be amazed at how far chunks of lead bullets can fly after hitting a steel plate,jacketed bullets I"m sure are even more dangerous.Shooting streel is not as safe as ya might think.

Nate1778
July 19, 2009, 12:22 AM
I understand that bullets can ricochet, but its the sudden stop and reverse direction that gets me. I understand if it were a rubber ball, like what my kids play with, but its not, its a bullet traveling at what 2200 ft per second? Just seams crazy to me, deifying physics if you will, but sounds like it happens more than one would think.

My other question is, if it is possible and it does happen, why do Cowbay shooters and others use steel targets?

musick
July 19, 2009, 12:23 AM
I always thought that a lead round would flatten and/or fragment more so than a steel core rd. I would asume that there is a bigger ricochet threat from steel vs. lead ammo.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? Not saying its true, just my assumption.

That said, I always thought shooting at a steel plate that was 90 degrees to the ground was a bad idea.

And to original question, yes, I have no reason to believe the vid is fake. Also I dont know what came back and hit the guy, but I think it is more likely the bullet than a target fragment. Seems to me whatever hit him was fairly aerodynamic judging by the initial ground impact and where it ended up.

AKElroy
July 19, 2009, 12:40 AM
It's real; I've seen this guy interviewed. The round knocked of his ear protection & grazed his ear, leaving a pretty serious gash. If it had been .5 inch to the right, he would have been DRT. This was a long shot as well; like 600 yrds if I remember right.

AWorthyOpponent
July 19, 2009, 12:54 AM
What an AK-47 bullet looks like when it hits a steel plate...(IDK if its really a 7.62 round in the video tho...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bSoRIG4PnM&NR=1

rondog
July 19, 2009, 01:40 AM
The guy in that video is actually a member here, Head Shot Willie. Looks like he's inactive, but I can remember when that video first popped up here.

And as I recall, the plate wasn't facing him flat. It was angled facing the ground, and angled off to the right, which makes the ricochet even more bizarre.

ArfinGreebly
July 19, 2009, 01:54 AM
Experiment for the day: go get a ball bearing, take it out on a hard surface that has next to no give in it (concrete is pretty good), and drop the ball bearing. Dropping it on a steel plate is even better.

It will bounce.

Steel can and does flex. Remember springs?

If you hit it hard enough, you can bend it, break it, or make a hole through it. If you hit it hard, but not hard enough to bend/break/penetrate, then what you're left with is the flex-return snap of the steel (kinda like a spring).

Get it just right, and you can get a high velocity projectile to bounce back whence it came, and sometimes with real authority.

2RCO
July 19, 2009, 02:17 AM
It's all about a man named Newton and a 3rd law he had.

B BRI
July 19, 2009, 02:24 AM
It's all about a man named Newton and a 3rd law he had.

+1 to what 2RCO said.

average_shooter
July 19, 2009, 02:33 AM
I understand that bullets can ricochet, but its the sudden stop and reverse direction that gets me. I understand if it were a rubber ball, like what my kids play with, but its not, its a bullet traveling at what 2200 ft per second? Just seams crazy to me, deifying physics if you will, but sounds like it happens more than one would think.

Taking this to a very large scale, look at meteor/asteroid impacts here on earth (or any other easily viewable celestial body, like the moon). What you see is not a hole, or giant divot, but rather a giant divot with a "hill" in the middle. That hill is actually earth that has "bounced back" immediately following the impact. And were not just talking steel, were talking iron ore along with every other ore and lots of solid rock that is elastic like this.

My other question is, if it is possible and it does happen, why do Cowbay shooters and others use steel targets?

My understanding is that CAS is limited to lead only, no jacketed, semi-jacketed or gas-checked bullets allowed.

Deus Machina
July 19, 2009, 03:31 AM
For a .50 BMG round--any non-cast .50 BMG round--I'd personally say that you would need one heck of a steel plate to cause a straight-back ricochet. Like, bordering on ship armor.

What I'm inclined to think happened is that 1) he destroyed something or flipped the plate and it's debris returning or 2) the round bounced down, hit the ground, and then returned. Wouldn't surprise me if it had hit the ground, bounced up at a high angle, and then came at him at a more level angle from the impact you can see there. Tumbling bullets are horribly unpredictable things. Ever watch a fumbled football?

jim in Anchorage
July 19, 2009, 06:22 AM
The fake"ricochet" sound effects are probably a good give away. Sounds like a pop bottle rocket.

PTK
July 19, 2009, 06:51 AM
The fake"ricochet" sound effects are probably a good give away. Sounds like a pop bottle rocket.
The video is real, as far as I'm aware.

rondog
July 20, 2009, 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim in Anchorage
The fake"ricochet" sound effects are probably a good give away. Sounds like a pop bottle rocket.

The video is real, as far as I'm aware.


Some people refuse to believe that anything on the 'net is real, unless it's something they did themselves. EVERYTHING they see has been faked or Photoshopped, and the first thing they'll do is run to Snopes to disprove it.

shotgunjoel
July 20, 2009, 02:12 AM
Here's a thread that might be helpful. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5769888#post5769888

Fat_46
July 20, 2009, 03:05 AM
My very first CAS shoot included a ricochet using soft lead 45 Colt rounds that somehow came straight back and opened a 1/2" gash in my right eyebrow.

3 stitches and a new CAS nickname later I've learned a good lesson. Put the odds in your favor, but fully expect Murphy to appear.

The Wiry Irishman
July 20, 2009, 03:58 AM
I just finished reading "Public Enemies" by Bryan Borrough. Its amazing how many of the 30s bank robbers were wounded with their own ricochets, many more than once.

blackops
July 20, 2009, 05:27 AM
Try shooting a little steel and you'll find out it's real enough.

Yes, rounds ricochet. They ricochet especially well off of hard surfaces like steel and sometimes they'll ricochet right back at you.

That's just another reason to wear safety glasses.

I agree that yes the will ricochet and that safety glasses are a must, but safety glasses aren't going to do anything to a 50bmg. How about DONT SHOOT INTO STEEL AT 100 YDS, especially with the biggest round available. He's lucky..very lucky. If you want to shoot into metal shoot AR-500 and at least at 200 yds.

musick
July 20, 2009, 11:04 AM
Yes, rounds ricochet. They ricochet especially well off of hard surfaces like steel and sometimes they'll ricochet right back at you.


Ive had more than 1 round ricochet back towards me while shooting in the desert after hitting a random rock in the side of a mountain. Another time, my friends truck got a nice dent from a ricochet.

Eyes and ears is ALWAYS a good idea.

rondog
July 21, 2009, 12:04 AM
FWIW - many, many years ago, I was shooting a .22 at cans setup in front of an old concrete wall, and my oldest brother was standing behind me watching. A .22 slug came whizzing straight back, right over my head, and thumped my bro square in the chest. Raised a pretty good welt too. He moved over after that. He still talks about it, "remember when?".

model of 1905
July 21, 2009, 12:29 AM
I cannot tell you with certainty either way if the video is real ( I personally believe it is a staged fake). I can tell you with absolute certainty that it was NOT a 600 yard shot. Ain't no way in H E double hockey sticks. :what:

LRaccuracy
July 21, 2009, 12:18 PM
Is this video real? That I can't answer to. Is this possible? There is no doubt in my mind that this can happen. I can imagine all sorts of scenarios where something including a projectile can be returned from kinetic energy. I also know of one death that occurred locally because of a ricochet (44 magnum.)

Nate1778
July 21, 2009, 12:44 PM
I do not question the fact of the ricochet. I know its real and have scene them fly off many a time at the KC machine gun night shoot. My question is pertaining to this video. For the bullet to come back at him, that would mean the bullet would have to come to a complete stop, from close to 3000ft/per second, and without deforming too much or loosing a ton of energy in explosion, turn directly back around and cruise at fairly high rate, from the sound of it, for another 100+ yards, in the same direction whence it came. I understand the steel ball bearing bouncing thing, but Friday night I was casting 00 buckshot from lead and dropping a couple, they don't bounce. Bullet is lead and copper, both of which are not steel and both deform, to do so eats up a ton of energy as we know.

So I get back to my original question, how does a bullet traveling at close to 3000ft/sec not explode on impact like the above posted AK round.

LaserSpot
July 22, 2009, 12:46 AM
Some BMG ammo is solid brass or solid copper:
http://www.50bmgsupply.com/ammo.shtml

At 600 yards, it would only be going ~1700 fps

B yond
July 22, 2009, 01:04 AM
I once took a shot at a THICK solid steel plate with some old surplus steel-core 7.62x54R and it came back at me. Left a big 'ole crater in the front of the plate where it hit and pushed a bunch of steel off to the sides, big bump on the backside of the plate where it almost made it through.

I haven't shot at steel since. The sound of a bullet whizzing by kinda makes you rethink your choice of target.

MutinousDoug
July 22, 2009, 01:15 AM
Take a walk down range sometime and look at those T-1 steel silhouette plates. If they have any time on them they look like the surface of the moon. A cratered plate will spit junk back at you much worse than a flat surface.
50m chickens are dangerous.

shilo
July 22, 2009, 01:37 AM
I shot a ak round at a piece of half inch steel and it ricocheted and hit me in the arm and chest. We had to dig out a piece of the metal jacket out of my arm. Theres still a piece in by my wrist. I was lucky i didnt lose an eye or hit an artery. My wife was pissed!

and the steel was closer than i should have been shooting at.

ChCx2744
July 22, 2009, 05:16 AM
Yea eyes and ears are always a must have when shooting but...if a .50BMG round comes back at your head...well...your SOL. Seriously, you are SOL. It is just your day to go if that happens and it makes contact with a vital organ.

PvtPyle
July 22, 2009, 05:47 PM
This video is real, George Hill was there when it was made. The guys are shooters from the Unita Basin here in Utah. IIRC the muffs are on display in the store Basin Sports.

Detritus
July 22, 2009, 06:24 PM
and the steel was closer than i should have been shooting at.

Frank Glover the owner of The Range (http://www.gloryroad.net/~idpa/) In Oxford NC, used to tell a story about seeing the combo of too close steel plates and shotgun slugs result in a .32 cal piece of lead heading UP-range and wounding a shooter badly enough to require a trip to the ER.

SuperNaut
July 22, 2009, 06:26 PM
Is this real?

Yep.

Drail
July 22, 2009, 10:24 PM
Everyone needs to be very careful shooting at steel plates. At our matches we always angled the plates so we knew any ricochets would go off into a field or down into the ground. If a steel plate is not smooth it can be very dangerous. A direct hit on a deep crater will actually turn the bullet inside out and allow it to return straight back to the gun. I didn't hardly believe this until I saw a guy shoot one and the bullet came right back at him and hit him right between the eyes as the gun lifted in recoil. He survived. When the plates become heavily cratered DON'T USE THEM ANYMORE! Make sure everyone in the area has good safety glasses and think about where the ricochet may go. Be careful. I love shooting steel but you cannot be careless or someone can get hurt. In one of Elmer Keith's books he describes hitting a wooden fence post that had a big knot in it. The bullet followed the grain around the knot and came straight back and hit him.

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