Deer Hunting with Glock 23


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Borch
July 19, 2009, 12:43 AM
MN has relaxed their laws regarding hunting with handguns to the point where it would be totally legal for me to hunt with my Glock 23 this fall. I am strongly considering this just to try something different.

Anyone have any thoughts on pros or cons? Best ammo types? Special considerations?

Looking for feedback as I have never hunted deer with anything but a 12 ga or a .54 muzzleloader before.

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David E
July 19, 2009, 02:48 AM
If you give a rip about the deer , you'll use something better suited for it.

I was hoping you were asking about taking the G-23 as a backup/coup de grace gun....in which case, it'd be a dandy choice.

If you ignore this, then practice until you can hit a paper plate at 50 yds (or closer, if you can't hit at 50) and load Gold Dot 180 grain JHP's

Don't go past 50 yds.

uvausmc
July 19, 2009, 05:57 AM
I would go for it but with a few conditions. I wouldn't attempt a shot past 25 yards, i would be completely confident that I can hit my target (paper plate size) in any condition, and I would make sure I have an adequate bullet/load. Pretty much the same as all hunting but like i said i would keep it close. Unless you are hunting those fabled super deer that can only be killed with a magnum rifle round you should be fine as long as you have good shot placement.

A few seasons ago I killed a whitetail with my 4 3/4" barrel Ruger Vaquero in .357. I stalked her to within about 20 yards. It's not your typical deer handgun but with one federal hardcast bullet through the boiler room the deer was just as dead as all the ones i've shot with a .308 or .270 WSM.

I used to watch a pretty good outdoors show in Georgia called O'Niell Outside. On the show he killed one deer after another with his Glock .40 S&W throughout the southeast. http://www.oneilloutside.com/

CDW4ME
July 19, 2009, 08:36 AM
I considered deer hunting with my XD45 compact, after further thought it's a no go.
The best I can realistically do freehand at 25 yards with the pistol is a 5 shot group that's 4-5''. That level of accuracy isn't as good as what I obtain with my bow; with the bow I typically shoot 3'' groups at 30 yards.
I don't know if the handgun would blow completely through the deer, and no exit hole could make for difficult tracking. The arrow typically blows through the deer (over 20 bowkills and the arrow has blown through 87% of the time).
A 45 bullet might expand to 75 caliber. My smallest broadhead is a 1'' four blade. The broadhead would definitely make a bigger hole.
So, the pistol comes up short compared to my bow.
Also, I'm not satisfied to hit a pie plate; I want at least consistent 4'' groups in practice to leave a margin for error in hunting conditions.

If you do use the Glock get several different 180 grain bullets and compare each for accuracy; you'll be amazed how some loads group significantly better than others.

The Lone Haranguer
July 19, 2009, 10:22 AM
All but the largest deer are no bigger/heavier than a human. If the .40 is powerful enough for two-legged animals it should handle the four-legged ones. This assumes you possess the necessary stalking (to get close enough) and shooting skills.

Vern Humphrey
July 19, 2009, 10:44 AM
All but the largest deer are no bigger/heavier than a human. If the .40 is powerful enough for two-legged animals it should handle the four-legged ones.
But the difference is, you never know when (if ever) you might encounter a two-legged predator. So you are willing to sacrifice power for portability and concealability. When you hunt, you know you're going to shoot a deer, and you select your weapon accordingly.

hwp
July 19, 2009, 10:57 AM
I have shot about a dozen deer at close range with a 40cal pistol, all wounded from being struck by a car. All shots were to the head. Not all of the deer died instantly.

Everyone on the internet is a fanatastic shot and I'm sure someone here claims they can make a head shot on a moving deer at 20 yds with a COMPACT combat pistol (glock 23) but even if you could (and you can NOT) it is a stupid thing to do.

Has anyone here ever ran 40 S&W ammo through a chrono out of a G23? I have. Would you knowingly hunt with a 180gr bullet at <800FPS?

The smallest handgun round that should be used on whitetail is a HOT 158gr+ 357mag and it is marginal.

ChCx2744
July 19, 2009, 11:45 AM
If you can get close enough and put a round into it's computer...Well...I'd say it should drop...

surjimmy
July 19, 2009, 11:55 AM
I know you can kill a deer with a 40 cal, but you can also kill one with a 22. As always the question is should you, not could you. If you want to hunt with a Glock or a handgun why not get one in a 10 mm.

hardluk1
July 19, 2009, 12:38 PM
If you just have to use your glock use it at the same yardages that you would use a bow and try atleast a 160grain hp bullets.

PO2Hammer
July 19, 2009, 02:54 PM
I am strongly considering this just to try something different.

Not a good enough reason. The deer deserve better.

jackdanson
July 19, 2009, 03:21 PM
I am strongly considering this just to try something different.

Famous last words!

I wouldn't do it.

danbrew
July 19, 2009, 03:58 PM
I've shot a deer in the head with a Glock 23 before - moments after I ran him over. It required a second shot to put him down. Go figure. Both were headshots.

While I don't go out of my way to run over deer, they're like rats where I am - you can count on having a close call once a year and a hit once every couple of years. Here's the last one - this one didn't require a follow up shot. It was dead right there. Although, unsurprisingly, he was gone about 15 minutes after I hit him. I dragged him to the side of the road and went back by not so long later and somebody had already grabbed him.

http://danbrew.smugmug.com/photos/207053653_Xz6uf-XL.jpg

:D

Borch
July 19, 2009, 04:44 PM
OK folks, I guess it's clarification time.

1) I live and hunt in the lower SE corner of MN where trees and brush are so thick anything longer then 40 yds even with a 12 ga slug can be a marginal shot. SO obviously I would not be shooting long range.

2) Head shots are out of the question (should be for any responsible hunter). Even for a coup de grace, as someone said, this is foolish. Deer's skulls are nearly as hard as rock and extremely thick in some areas. Bread basket only for target zone.

3) Obvioulsy a heavy hollow point or cast lead semi wadcutter hot handload would be the ammo of choice. My Glock has an aftermarket barrel and is fully supported and can handle the extra punch of a hot load.

4) Before season I would have my Glock fitted with a red dot just to help my sight picture and accuracy. Even though I can put a full mag inside 6 inches at 30 yds with open sights already.

5) No stalking needed to get close. I stand hunt and the last 4 deer I have taken have been at 30 yds or less.

And to all those who say things like, "the deer deserve better" or "if you give a rip about the deer" y'all obviously haven't hunted the lower corner of MN before. Many thousands of deer die slowly from infection or bleeding out after being wounded by half ass shotgun hunters who think just because they are shooting with the big bad 12 ga that shot placement doesn't matter.

I am not an amateur and this is not a decision I would make lightly. Somewhere in the last near 20 years deer hunting has become easy with the cantilevered, rifled slug barrels and the 1- 4 power scopes and the accurate to 200 yd slugs, etc, etc. I am simply exploring some possible ways to put back the challenge it once held for me. And bow hunting is out of the question because I already do that. Maybe I should just take 1 shell into the woods with me, but then again my last 5 deer have been taken with only 1 shell so that accomplishes nothing. Maybe it's just time to give it up all together and move on to something else. I don't know.

Alpacca 45
July 19, 2009, 07:51 PM
"And to all those who say things like, "the deer deserve better" or "if you give a rip about the deer" y'all obviously haven't hunted the lower corner of MN before. Many thousands of deer die slowly from infection or bleeding out after being wounded by half ass shotgun hunters who think just because they are shooting with the big bad 12 ga that shot placement doesn't matter."

No, the deer do deserve better

SlamFire1
July 19, 2009, 07:59 PM
"And to all those who say things like, "the deer deserve better" or "if you give a rip about the deer" y'all obviously haven't hunted the lower corner of MN before. Many thousands of deer die slowly from infection or bleeding out after being wounded by half ass shotgun hunters who think just because they are shooting with the big bad 12 ga that shot placement doesn't matter."

No, the deer do deserve better

Agreed.

SaxonPig
July 19, 2009, 08:03 PM
Using a defensive handgun for deer hunting would a very stupid thing to do.

Also, for TLH, you cannot compare humans with deer. A deer reacts solely on instinct and will run or fight to the last ounce of life while a human knows he's been shot and reacts intellectually, and often gives up. The deer won't give up until it actually bleeds out... which will take a long time after being shot with a 40 caliber pistol.

Bad idea. Stupid.

oneounceload
July 19, 2009, 08:31 PM
I stand hunt

That's not hunting, it's deer "waiting"

and a 6" group at thirty yards, in a "deer waiting" scenario, isn't anything to write home about

surjimmy
July 19, 2009, 08:40 PM
I see nothing wrong with stand hunting, and YES it is Deer Hunting. I think even though you are experienced hunter and marksman that a 40 cal. should not be used to hunt deer. I'm not saying you shouldn't hunt deer with a pistol even a Glock just get one in the right caliber. My choice would be 10mm.

hwp
July 19, 2009, 09:06 PM
Head shots are the only option with weak handgun rounds like the 40sw.

6" at 30yds with a G23 is awesome and I would "call and raise" if we were at the range together. Like I said earlier everyone on the net is an awesome shot.

American Finn
July 19, 2009, 09:11 PM
Dear Borch-

I am in agreement with several of the other members: the .40 caliber Glock is a little light for your intended purpose of hunting deer with it.

Now, I understand where you are coming from: you want a more challenging and enjoyable hunting experience. My advice to you would be to acquire a .44 or .41 Magnum handgun (or any of the other larger caliber handguns, like the .454 Casull, etc.) as this would not only provide you a greater margin of power when using on a deer, but this also allows you to chase other game animals such as bear, elk, and for a competent shooter, moose.

If anything, it gives you a reason to purchase a new gun!

Good luck and good shooting.

hwp
July 19, 2009, 09:17 PM
In all fairness if you need more of a "challenge" you could get out of the stand instead of deploying a totally useless "compact carry handgun" to make things more interesting.

Hell if this is the case why not use an air rifle? Or a sling shot? Maybe a spear? A baseball bat?

If you want to hunt with a handgun that is great. Just use one that is suited to the job. A 40sw is not suited for hunting.

danbrew
July 19, 2009, 09:20 PM
Now you're talking!

If anything, it gives you a reason to purchase a new gun!

David E
July 19, 2009, 09:55 PM
Even for a coup de grace, as someone said, this is foolish. Deer's skulls are nearly as hard as rock and extremely thick in some areas.

That's why you don't shoot them in the extremely thick areas ! IN the ear or between the eyes does it every time.

And bow hunting is out of the question because I already do that.

Now you're muddying up the waters.... in your first post you said: I have never hunted deer with anything but a 12 ga or a .54 muzzleloader before.

You posted: Looking for feedback..... but then chastise any post that apparently doesn't contain the feedback you desire. Next, you declare: "I am not an amateur" Ok, but it makes me wonder why asked for our input at all ? :confused:

Handgun hunting is a challenging pursuit, no one is disputing that. It's your gun choice that people have an issue with. Why not buy a .357 or .44 or 10mm and go bag your deer with one of those?

Mike J
July 19, 2009, 10:56 PM
I can understand the reasons for wanting to hunt with a handgun but I wouldn't want to use a .40 to do it. While I've never tried handgun hunting I don't think I'd want to use anything less than a .357 with at least a 6" barrel to do it.

Alpacca 45
July 20, 2009, 07:49 AM
Let's just go back to what it takes to kill a critter cleanly.

In the days before military stratergy was to wound rather than kill, military rifle rounds (excluding the lee navy 6mm) were 6.5mm or more diam and typically 140 grains upwards, launched at 2,400 fps or more.

Other than the more extreme magnums, a handgun is governed more by what is carryable than what it takes to kill quickly and cleanly, yes a handgun will kill, but if that is the primary aim of going out, then you should take a rifle or shotgun with slug or 00.

The comments about head shots:
Great, if you can reliably hit something the size of an apple! what if you just break it's jaw or take its nose end off?

Far better go for the chest cavity where the target is bigger and it will be fatal in minutes or hours at the most rather than days.

The deer really do deserve better.

Alpacca 45
July 20, 2009, 07:54 AM
Just on the subject of rifle rounds, remember that the Japs were busy going to 7.7mm (.303) at the start of WW2, in preference to the 6.5mm they had been using. Their usual oponents were a lot lighter build than most of us and probably a lot of deer are.

Just because a hurt deer won't come to tear you to bits like a simillar weight big cat would, is not an excuse to treat ending its life with less respect.

hardluk1
July 20, 2009, 01:20 PM
I am not going to look state law but what is the min. power level and rules for a handgun there. Some states have rules and regs ,some don't. I have seen a 6" barrel and 357 energy levels as min.. And the state will qual that energy. If you can shoot but 6" group ,,,put the gun away ,that ain't even close enough to make a heart shot at 30yards. I did not say use a bow but hunt like you are bow hunting ,set up and range. And i most assume that you can do better than 6" at 30 yards with that.

trickyasafox
July 20, 2009, 01:29 PM
I think the 180gr stuff would be too slow. I think federal has some 155gr +P stuff.
under good conditions, people have harvested deer with 9mm (link (http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/FieldReportDeer.htm)) and I think the g23 could do the same. You as a hunter need to be ethical about shot choice, but that's true of all hunting.

the 165gr Golden Sabre from remington might also be a good choice. Do you reload? if so Nosler and Sierra has some really nice premium hollowpoints available.

jaysouth
July 20, 2009, 01:40 PM
I was hunting deer from my Brother's tree house blind in KY. Two does came up and started sniffing the tree underneath the blind. I could not get a shot with my bow. I unholstered my Glock 19 and leaned out of the blind. There was now a doe on each side of the tree. I shot the one that I could see between the shoulder blades with a 9BPLE. She went down in her tracks. The other one ran out into my field of vision, but I did not take a shot because I had enough deer to dress and cook for camp meat.

At a range of 20 feet, a small pistol bullet is adequate for unsuspecting deer. I would not shoot any pistol at one running or much further out. If you can kill a deer with a bow and arrow, you can certainly cleanly kill a deer with a .40 Glock.

HB
July 20, 2009, 01:49 PM
Also, for TLH, you cannot compare humans with deer. A deer reacts solely on instinct and will run or fight to the last ounce of life while a human knows he's been shot and reacts intellectually, and often gives up. The deer won't give up until it actually bleeds out... which will take a long time after being shot with a 40 caliber pistol.

This is the key

I really wouldn't feel comfortable taking a deer with a compact .40. It's not fair to the deer and I have a feeling that it won't go quite as planned. Making that shot from the stand with nerves and weather will be much different than standing and taking a shot at some paper at the range.
That being said, I use a bow for deer hunting. It will out penetrate and probably make a bigger hole than your .40, but who knows.
It is possible, I wouldn't do it though.

HB

Vern Humphrey
July 20, 2009, 02:23 PM
My advice would be to limit your shots to the distance where you know you can hit a beer can. And only shoot if you have a perfect shot.

freakshow10mm
July 20, 2009, 02:41 PM
For deer with the .40 S&W, I'd use the 155gr XTP as fast as you can push it.

RoboDuck
July 21, 2009, 01:08 AM
I can tell you that a 40S&W is not enough gun for deer. You will not be pleased in the results.

hwp
July 22, 2009, 11:07 AM
Over and over people on this thread gloss over the posting of others who have actually shot a deer with a 40sw with substandard results.

SouthernBoy
July 22, 2009, 07:50 PM
I have killed a deer with a .357 Magnum (Ruger Blackhawk 6 /12" 3-screw) using handloads (Norma 160gr hollow point sitting on 16 grains of 2400). The shot was taken at approximately 20-25 yards. The bullet destroyed the top of his heart and aorta.

The .357 is the least powerful caliber I would consider when handgun hunting. A few years later, I moved up to a .44 Magnum for the extra margin it offered. In a Glock, the 10mm is a better choice for hunting deer and will serve you better than the .40S&W (to which I am very partial).

leadcounsel
July 22, 2009, 08:03 PM
In all fairness if you need more of a "challenge" you could get out of the stand instead of deploying a totally useless "compact carry handgun" to make things more interesting.

+1

The .40 caliber pistol is much too small for reliable, consistent, accurate, compassionate hunting. You'll likely wound it and lose the deer and it'll die a slow death in a ditch. I bet that 8 times out of 10 even with the perfect shot the deer doesn't die quickly.

Deer are much stronger than humans, have much tougher skin (duh, leather), stronger muscles, stronger bones, and can run for ages after being wounded, even badly. They live in the WILD, which means they are tougher than some street punk that you pack your G23 to defend yourself against. Deer will fight and flee until they die by bleeding out. They don't understand 'surrender.'

The reason you carry a handgun as someone else pointed out is that you can't really carry anything larger, either practically or lawfully or concealed. However, in hunting, why would you choose to hunt with an underpowered weapon when you could use something, gee, I don't know, DESIGNED for hunting game...

Sorry, but you are a fool to toy with the idea of hunting with a Glock 23! I know some hunters use a handgun, maybe a .357 or .44, or even use it for a quick head kill on a wounded animal. But for hunting with a .40 - just plain dumb.

I don't normally flame, but you really are ametuer if you really are considering that you are good enough shot with 6" spread at 30 yards or feet or whatever with a pistol INHERENTLY underpowered for medium GAME. People, sure. Game, nope.

willbrink
July 22, 2009, 08:12 PM
"All but the largest deer are no bigger/heavier than a human. If the .40 is powerful enough for two-legged animals"

Who says? Handgun rnds in standard duty rnds - which included the .40 - are poor man stoppers with most people surviving their gun shot wounds after being shot multiple times. Standard duty rnds are not "powerful enough for two-legged animals" as it's being applied here to hunting, which is why if given the choice, you ALWAYS go for the rifle/shot gun when dealing with said hostile two-legged animals.

m2steven
July 22, 2009, 10:09 PM
I've never understood the fascination in picking up a dead dear from the middle of the road and dragging it home. I've also never felt the hunting lust so great that I'd shoot
a living thing from my car or truck. Kill for food, and put your prey quickly to rest. For me, I'll confine my blood letting to beer cans and paper targets. Whatever you kill, let it be lights out, or not at all.

Zerodefect
July 22, 2009, 10:31 PM
While a .40 will get the job done, its better to use a more humane, powerful round.

Just because the "Fudds" use shotguns and are terrible shots, is no excuse for not trying your hardest to kill your food humanely.

Not going to prove anything anyway, we know the .40 works. Whats the point?

An Ar-15 in 6.8SPC would be way more fun anyway.:p

HippieMagic
July 22, 2009, 10:38 PM
My friend took a deer with a 180gr FMJ from a 4" XD. It was almost point blank though he kept hearing something near him and got out his XD expecting a snake or raccoon since they are so bad around here... it was a Doe that jumped out in front of him and he fired killing it instantly. He was so close he probably could have hit it so I couldn't tell you how it would have gone at any sort of range.

robphillips
July 22, 2009, 11:04 PM
I used to carry a 40 cal when we meat hunted several years ago. It is quite an inadequate cartidge for deer. It will bounce of a deer skull at 3 feet, unless you put it in their ear.
I might add, I only used it to dispatch of ones that weren't dead after a rifle shot.

sokygunner
July 22, 2009, 11:21 PM
As far as the "ethical hunter" thing goes...the glock 23 doesn't quite get it done. Not exactly a clean, quick kill. I'm all for hunting, love it, do it whenever I can, but besides it being less than humane, you need to have your hiking boots on because you are going to have to do some serious tracking after you shoot the deer with a .40 S&W round. I have shot deer with .300 Win mag from less than 50 yards and still had to track the stupid thing down almost half a mile away. As we all know, if you or I got shot with a high velocity .30 cal round we would fall down dead, a freakin' deer can get hit with one and run a marathon before it dies. Don't shoot the deer with a 40

HippieMagic
July 23, 2009, 02:28 AM
I have friends that have killed deer with a .22LR round between the eyes as well... but like everyone else said you shouldn't be doing it. I know people hunt with bows and while that seems more inhumane than a gun it actually creates a wound that will drop a deer much faster than a handgun round will. Don't "aim for the head" either because you can miss and hit the deer's lower jaw mauling it to the point where the deer won't die but will in fact starve to death because it can no longer eat to sustain itself.

Handgun rounds rarely even kill a human so keep that in mind. Even in vital organs a human MAY not die from a handgun. I think I heard 80% of handgun wound victims survive. You need to think about that. In West Virginia I believe the law states no smaller than a .223 Remington or .40S&W out of a 4" barrel for deer. That is the MINIMUM and most won't recommend you use either. It WILL kill a deer but it may make it suffer a lot before it does the trick.

NG VI
July 23, 2009, 04:32 AM
Has anyone here ever ran 40 S&W ammo through a chrono out of a G23? I have. Would you knowingly hunt with a 180gr bullet at <800FPS?

I seriously doubt that any fullpower 180 grain .40 load travels less than 800 feet per second from a 4" pistol. I don't really buy into the polygonal bore equaling greater velocity hype, but I also can't believe that the 180 .40 travels that slowly at any of the distances the OP was talking about.

I also think you should use the opportunity to get a .44 Magnum or something in the same weight class, might as well use a true hunting handgun if you want to hunt with a handgun, instead of throwing the Glock in over its head. Or use this as a good reason to get a Glock 20, a six inch barrel, and some fullpower 10mm with the right bullet, something that penetrates well like a 200 grain XTP, that would be head and shoulders above the 23.

trigga
August 11, 2009, 11:17 PM
i used a glock 22, same caliber with 6" barrel to make it legal. i've shot a deer four times center mass within 15 yards and it still ran off. i used federal hydra shock, not enough penetration? but there was a lot of blood. as a side arm they are good, but for shooting deer, try something bigger. yeah mn deer hunting law suck. my cousins from mn come down here (wi) for deer hunting, not to mention we have cwd deer that expands our deer season so it's well worth it.

Dr_2_B
August 12, 2009, 12:08 AM
I think most of us feel it may be a little inhumane. Strange how our game laws work... sometimes they relax things they shouldn't and other times they prohibit things that would be okay.

Ben86
August 12, 2009, 02:09 AM
Handgun hunting is a lot of fun. It is most challenging. It not only requires very skilled shooting but also cunning, because you have to get close enough to take the shot. I love sneaking up on cottontails with my glock 17. I took one at 30 yards one day, it was quite possibly the best shot I've ever taken under pressure.

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