Wanna bet the gun wasn't in a holster?


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Yoda
July 19, 2009, 09:55 AM
There are SO many things that seems to have been just wrong here, but I'll bet that the deceased's last mistake in his life was to stuff a gun in his low-hanging pants without a holster:



Dionta RaShad Cochran was killed by his own gun after it accidentally discharged in the 19-year-old's pocket, authorities said Friday. The bullet struck him in the chest while he was getting into an SUV to buy cigarettes.

Tests confirmed that the fatal round was fired from the .32-caliber pistol Cochran kept in the back pocket of his low-hanging pants, and not from an unknown shooter, as originally thought, Charleston County Coroner Rae Wooten said.

"It's clear examining the clothing and trajectories and soot and bullets and guns, etc., that the gun in his back pocket actually discharged, passed through his clothing missing both legs and as he was bending forward in an effort to probably close the door, the bullet struck him in the chest," she said...

...Investigators arrested Cochran's cousin and a friend a day later after they determined that the pair tried to hide Cochran's gun and another gun in the backyard before police arrived.

Police charged Eric Ra'shad Antonio Smith, who was staying at the house with his grandmother, with obstruction of justice after he allegedly instructed Justin Maurice Townsend to hide the guns. Smith's mother said at a bond hearing that police told her that her son, who has a conviction for third-degree burglary, was the intended target of the shooting.

Police also charged Townsend, Cochran's cousin, with possession of a stolen pistol with a removed or obliterated serial number, unlawful carrying of a pistol and possession of a pistol...

--- Yoda

Here's the link:
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2009/jul/18/coroner_man_shot_self_by_accident89655/

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Kindrox
July 19, 2009, 10:18 AM
I always chuckle at these stories because the perp is always lauded as a saint by someone and this article does not dissopoint:

Lollita Brown, Holmes' pastor at The Power of The Word Worship Center, said Cochran was a good person who had plans to join the military after overcoming problems in his life.

"He was a very outgoing young man; he was very sweet," Brown said. "He was a part of our youth ministry. Always wanted to do the right thing. Yes, he had some trouble in the past, but when he came out, he had his head on right."

Cochran spent 10 months in prison after a conviction for strong-arm robbery. He was released in April.

On June 5, he was arrested and accused of shooting a firearm in West Ashley.


The only thing missing is how the perp is the victim of lax gun control laws that put the gun in his back pocket.

TexasRifleman
July 19, 2009, 10:30 AM
he only thing missing is how the perp is the victim of lax gun control laws that put the gun in his back pocket.

The Brady bunch will take care of that. This one goes in the "children killed by guns" category. I think they go all they way up to 20 with their definition of "children", just to make sure they get to include most gang shootings in their statistics.

SCKimberFan
July 19, 2009, 10:57 AM
after overcoming problems in his life.

However, that would not be for quite a while...

peyton
July 19, 2009, 01:32 PM
Now it is a shame he died, however, how did a 32 go off in his back pocket?? There seems to me a piece of the puzzle is missing.

The Lone Haranguer
July 19, 2009, 02:02 PM
A gun in the back pocket not only goes off, but hits him in the chest, at a steep enough angle to penetrate a vital organ? :confused: I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around this.

Impureclient
July 19, 2009, 02:06 PM
I hope it's possible to keep this from being locked.

I'm really curious on everybody's take on how you can have a gun in your back pocket shoot you in
the chest. Also how is it possible for it to fire without a finger or something to grab inside the back
pocket pulling the trigger. Any time somebody has an AD everybody says it's due to that person grabbing
at the trigger. So what pulled his trigger?

Blakenzy
July 19, 2009, 02:15 PM
Well, his pants were baggy enough that the back pocket somehow passed between his legs and ended up infront of him as he was seating himself in the SUV. His back pockets would probably hang at mid thigh height in the standing position. As to what pulled the trigger... well, maybe some junk he had flopping around the same pocket.

Lesson: Baggy clothes don't make for good carry garment.

Does he get a Darwin Award for self-elimination?

noskilz
July 19, 2009, 02:17 PM
You guys having trouble envisioning this need to remember how low these pants can be worn. The guy is sitting down, so his pants are now really low, with the gun well below his buttocks, probably under a thigh. He leans forward, exposing his chest through his legs. Somehow, the trigger on the unholstered gun is depressed. Bang. Game over.

The real mystery is the dead guy's cousin's mom's (dead guys' Aunt?) statement at the bail hearing that "the cops told her that her son was the intended target." Hmmm. Now THAT doesn't add up.

Grey_Mana
July 19, 2009, 02:18 PM
Impossible, everybody knows a .32 can't penetrate the chest or skull.

Girodin
July 19, 2009, 02:26 PM
I'm really curious on everybody's take on how you can have a gun in your back pocket shoot you in
the chest. Also how is it possible for it to fire without a finger or something to grab inside the back
pocket pulling the trigger. Any time somebody has an AD everybody says it's due to that person grabbing
at the trigger. So what pulled his trigger?
Impureclient is online now Report Post Quick reply to this message

Blakenzy's expliantion is what I gathered from reading it.

As to what pulled the trigger, who knows, likely something in his pocket intersected the trigger.

Even if this guy wasn't a saint it is pretty low class to laugh at someones death. What is more appropriate IMO is to look at what lessons can be drawn. Although the details are lacking to confirm it I also would imagine that this guy didn't have his little .32 in a pocket holster. Pocket carry really does call for a pocket holster. Something likely intersected the trigger causing the discharge. Not only should one carry in holster but the pistol should be the only thing in that pocket.

I just had an idea of another possible cause of discharge. Perhaps he reached down to pull up his very low pants in order to get into the car. Grabbing at the pants he might have gotten the trigger.

Girodin
July 19, 2009, 02:28 PM
The real mystery is the dead guy's cousin's mom's (dead guys' Aunt?) statement at the bail hearing that "the cops told her that her son was the intended target." Hmmm. Now THAT doesn't add up.


Initially his cousin hid the gun. With no gun on the kid the police probably thought someone shot him until further investigation showed what happened.

Leanwolf
July 19, 2009, 02:42 PM
"Lollita Brown, Holmes' pastor at The Power of The Word Worship Center, said Cochran was a good person who had plans to join the military after overcoming problems in his life.

"He was a very outgoing young man; he was very sweet," Brown said. "He was a part of our youth ministry. Always wanted to do the right thing."

No doubt Dionta RaShad was a nice boy, but....


He just fell in with bad company.

(Where have we heard that before??)

L.W.

Impureclient
July 19, 2009, 02:47 PM
Even if this guy wasn't a saint it is pretty low class to laugh at someones death. What is more appropriate IMO is to look at what lessons can be drawn.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Perhaps he reached down to pull up his very low pants in order to get into the car.
That makes the most sense here.

c919
July 19, 2009, 03:07 PM
Well at least we know he was a well dressed man with a good belt. Back pocket to chest.... huh? How about that?

And I dont get this....

Dionta RaShad Cochran was killed by his own gun after it accidentally discharged in the 19-year-old's pocket, authorities said Friday. The bullet struck him in the chest while he was getting into an SUV to buy cigarettes.

It seems like you would be getting out of the SUV to buy cigs, and back in after getting the cigs.

So was he buying the cigs in the SUV?

DRYHUMOR
July 19, 2009, 04:04 PM
Maybe the cigs were the "left handed" variety.

PT1911
July 19, 2009, 04:09 PM
last I checked they go up to 24 or 25 with their definition of children...

loadedround
July 19, 2009, 04:27 PM
Don't you have to be over 21 to buy cigarettes in NYC?

Oyeboten
July 19, 2009, 04:27 PM
Pretty strange...



Maybe he'd had it cocked and no safety on...and caught the Trigger somehow.


I'm assuming this was an Automatic...


Yeahhh...probably buying 'Black Market' Cigarettes.

danprkr
July 19, 2009, 04:42 PM
Even if this guy wasn't a saint it is pretty low class to laugh at someones death.

Granted, laughing at the death is probably low class. But it's just logic to write it off as Darwinism at it's finest.

As to the logistics of how the angle got there - who knows? Wouldn't be the first time someone sat on something that protruded into a pocket. I'm famous for destroying cell phones and sunglasses just this way. Granted I've never had a gun go off, but I have had several pairs of pants with 'extra' holes, and I can assume that anything that would penetrate denim might also push a trigger if it was in the wrong place. Just my guess.

LRaccuracy
July 19, 2009, 04:54 PM
peyton,

I believe it happened just like it is described. I knew an idiot that shot himself carrying a S&W mod. 36 in his front pocket. He was getting into his car and the firearm discharged. The round severed the femeral artery and he just about bled out at the scean. This was in 1975.

jnyork
July 19, 2009, 04:55 PM
Lollita Brown, Holmes' pastor at The Power of The Word Worship Center, said Cochran was a good person who had plans to join the military after overcoming problems in his life.


Another crock. After doing 10 months for strongarm robbery, he was definitely NOT getting into the military. :scrutiny:

Titan6
July 19, 2009, 07:02 PM
I guess there is hope for all you guys toting .32s for SD. I would not count on getting lucky twice.

Oyeboten
July 19, 2009, 07:17 PM
I believe it happened just like it is described. I knew an idiot that shot himself carrying a S&W mod. 36 in his front pocket. He was getting into his car and the firearmdischarged. The round severed the femeral artery and he just about bled out at the scean. This was in 1975.




I don't suppose you have any real details, do you?


He somehow actuated a double-action Revolver, with no hands...while it was in his pocket...

Hmmmmm...


Was he carrying it 'Cocked'?


Or...?


How?

ants
July 19, 2009, 07:19 PM
Somehow I don't believe the story or any of its details.

The cousin lied to police about the shooting. When that was revealed as a false report, police assumed that the victim shot himself accidentally. At least that explains the hole in the pants.

Later we hear his aunt testify at the bail hearing, stating that the cousin was the real target. Oh, really?

We won't ever know the real story. In a few days they lay another ex-felon to rest and we'll all forget the whole incident.

chuckusaret
July 20, 2009, 12:27 AM
The dead guy was a saint and had every thing going for him. """"BS"""""" What is a 19 year old saint doing with a concealed weapon in his backpocket?

CapnMac
July 20, 2009, 12:37 AM
It seems like you would be getting out of the SUV to buy cigs, and back in after getting the cigs.

Probably just poor editing at the newspaper. I read that to mean he had walked to the SUV intending to drive to the store to get the smokes. My "read" is also, before leaving, he managed to get his britches caught on the seat, or perhaps the seat adjustment lever, and leaned over trying to get his legs free enough to drive.

But, that is pure speculation on my part.

shotgunjoel
July 20, 2009, 01:15 AM
was killed by his own gun after it accidentally discharged Sure, just blame it on the gun, not the idiot.

Nematocyst
July 20, 2009, 01:22 AM
Even if this guy wasn't a saint it is pretty low class to laugh at someones death.
Granted, laughing at the death is probably low class.
But it's just logic to write it off as Darwinism at it's finest.Charlie couldn't have said it any better.

http://bigmentaldisease.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/darwin.jpg

RP88
July 20, 2009, 01:30 AM
well, it was a .32 pistol. Chances are it was a piece-of-crap junk gun, since...well, whenever you hear of some punk getting his hands on a gun, chances are it isn't a good one since he's a dumb, penniless idiot who probably couldn't buy anything else better and doesn't know anything about them other than where the bullet-thingy comes out from. Chances also are that it could have been a hammer-fired pistol, and he was dumb enough to store it in his back pocket, unholstered, with the hammer cocked. All it takes is to sit on it wrong from there and bad things can happen.

Cactus Jack Arizona
July 20, 2009, 01:49 AM
The pistol was in his back pocket, discharged, missed both his legs, and hits him in the chest as he leans forward. :confused:

I'm calling shenanigans on this. Everyone, get your brooms. :what:

ArfinGreebly
July 20, 2009, 02:25 AM
I have pants which have back pockets that are loose "pouch" style pockets. I've put my pants on before and had one snag on some part of the waistline and wind up sticking out above my belt.

Imagine one of those pockets, and now also imagine someone wearing pants so low on his thighs that the pocket is hanging below the crotch line.

Now the guy goes to get into a high vehicle, and his pants, which are riding too low, get hung up on the corner of the seat. He reaches down to hoist his low-riding crotch over the corner, snags the trigger.

Since the gun isn't in any kind of holster, it can be sitting in that pocket at any old angle.

You lean down, reach down, grab, pull, and BANG!

It's a study in how not to carry a pocket pistol.

armoredman
July 20, 2009, 02:35 AM
Now I have to interject an accidental shooting I was present for. A co wokrer at the armored trucking firm I worked for at the time had his BBUG, a Davis .38 derringer, in his back pocket, tighter than normal work pants. That's important. The little derringer was accidentally cocked, we believe, by his movement in and out of the seat, so when he exited the truck in the bay, he stretched, and the tightening material fired the exposed trigger derringer. The bullet bounced between his legs, and went straight up in front of him to hit the overhead. We discovered the exact bullet hole the next time it rained. Only damage was pride, and a blown out pocket, plus a silver dollar sized burn on his "cheek". His girlfriend cut out that pocket and framed it, as a reminder.
Now, that was a gun fired in a back pocket that had the bullet go to his front, and I was there.
The video of him dropping trou to check to see if he shot himself was priceless. :) No, I do not have a copy.

sohcgt2
July 20, 2009, 07:30 AM
Another crock. After doing 10 months for strongarm robbery, he was definitely NOT getting into the military.

It said he planned to join. Many people plan to join that are not acceptable candidates and recruiters make them think they can. My nephew wanted to join and his recruiter made him think he could pass the physical as long as he didn't mention the accident that caused his seizures (He has a scar on his head that took half of his ear). Brain damage due to head trauma and the recruiter thinks the doctor won't notice at entry physical.


"He was a very outgoing young man; he was very sweet," Brown said. "He was a part of our youth ministry. Always wanted to do the right thing. Yes, he had some trouble in the past, but when he came out, he had his head on right."

The upside to the Cochran story is that an illegal firearm was pulled from the streets and the prison system won't have to support him, since clearly his trouble was not in his past and his head was not on right.

ezypikns
July 20, 2009, 09:26 AM
if this guy's accidental death even rates a discussion.

It's probably unfair of me to say this, but I wonder if death by gunshot wasn't an inevitability for him. Maybe just not by his own hand.

mbt2001
July 20, 2009, 09:39 AM
Most likely the dude was wearing baggy pants, reached back to the gun to hitch the pants and bang... When you carry a gun, you tend to want to touch it and use it to hitch... Good belt and good holster stop this, BUT he wasn't using them and was wearing baggy clothes.

1.) Back pocket carry
2.) no holster
3.) Condition one carry
4.) baggy clothes
5.) no compliance with the 4 rules

He died. As the mod said, this is a clinic in how NOT TO carry a piece.

Mr_Rogers
July 20, 2009, 09:39 AM
Illegal gun ownership, friends with guns, baggy pants, an SUV at 19 years old.
Sounds like high-risk living to me.

1858rem
July 20, 2009, 09:53 AM
He somehow actuated a double-action Revolver, with no hands...while it was in his pocket...

Hmmmmm...


Was he carrying it 'Cocked'?

jazzieite needs to teach him something about decocking a DA

krs
July 20, 2009, 09:59 AM
loadedround:"Don't you have to be over 21 to buy cigarettes in NYC?"

Huh? Maybe it is, but this occured in Charleston, South Carolina or thereabouts..

Darwin Award material for sure. Might not win, but it's gotta' be good for second runner up.

1858rem
July 20, 2009, 10:02 AM
Since the gun isn't in any kind of holster, it can be sitting in that pocket at any old angle.
seems to me the way a revo is built it would want to lay horizontal, barrel pointing either the left bottom or right bottom of the pocket, so how does it get turned around, away from how gravity naturally pulls it, to be able to shoot him in the chest, at a steep enough angle to hit vitals, since a gut shot would probably take a lot longer to kill him and possibly give him time to recieve aid.

Avenger29
July 20, 2009, 10:05 AM
Even if this guy wasn't a saint it is pretty low class to laugh at someones death.

Everytime a thug or apprentice thug departs this earth, it's a win. One less to commit crime, one less to take up my tax dollars, one less to commit a crime against me or my family. A win in every way.

NavyLCDR
July 20, 2009, 10:12 AM
I can't say that I am especially heart broken over this one.

Dravur
July 20, 2009, 11:38 AM
Yep, I cant muster up enough emotion on this one to shed a single tear. Darwin award winner for 2009.

MisterMike
July 20, 2009, 12:18 PM
While I do not necessarily lament this guy's death, neither do I rejoice in it. It seems like another instance of a dumb kid whose life was going nowhere, only to be cut short by his own stupidity. The tragedy is not in this guy's death, but in the fact that so many are on the same trajectory.

dom1104
July 20, 2009, 12:29 PM
Hmm, I think all the bit about the pants, suv etc are all extraneous, the point I took away from this story is, pocket carry is dangerous.

I think the only thing I would be comfortable in my pocket is a hammerless revolver like a 442

John E.
July 20, 2009, 12:51 PM
"the point I took away from this story is, pocket carry is dangerous."

How about semi-automatic, empty chamber?

DHJenkins
July 20, 2009, 03:31 PM
Yet another reason people should pull their darned pants up.

c919
July 20, 2009, 03:48 PM
the point I took away from this story is, pocket carry is dangerous.


No. uneducated no holster thug pocket carry is dangerous.

I would have no problem pocket carrying as long as it was holstered and I was employing the available safety features of said gun.

It's really quite simple: Don't carry a gun in your pocket without the trigger being shrouded by a holster.

sohcgt2
July 20, 2009, 05:25 PM
While I do not necessarily lament this guy's death, neither do I rejoice in it. It seems like another instance of a dumb kid whose life was going nowhere, only to be cut short by his own stupidity. The tragedy is not in this guy's death, but in the fact that so many are on the same trajectory.

A little truth.

orionengnr
July 20, 2009, 10:58 PM
Even if this guy wasn't a saint it is pretty low class to laugh at someones death....
I did not hear anyone laughing. Perhaps some incredulous scoffing here and there...:rolleyes:
Of course, my usual statement is "I love a happy ending". Call me a cynic. Call me an insensitive ba$****. Call me a pragmatist.
I just had an idea of another possible cause of discharge. Perhaps he reached down to pull up his very low pants in order to get into the car. Grabbing at the pants he might have gotten the trigger.

Sounds plausible.
This one goes in the "children killed by guns" category. I think they go all they way up to 20 with their definition of "children", just to make sure they get to include most gang shootings in their statistics.
Twenty-five, last time I checked. Children, mein arsch.

John Wayne
July 20, 2009, 11:53 PM
/Cigarettes kill.

/Maybe he would be alive if he'd had a lot of gaudy platinum jewelry about his neck to deflect the bullet?

RP88
July 21, 2009, 12:19 AM
or if he "was not an unintended consequence of this evil, racist, backwards society that made him put a gun in his pocket"

kyo
July 21, 2009, 01:12 AM
this guy is getting a darwin award

rondog
July 21, 2009, 02:02 AM
I wonder if the rightful owner of said death weapon will get it back now....

rainbowbob
July 21, 2009, 02:32 AM
A gun in the back pocket not only goes off, but hits him in the chest, at a steep enough angle to penetrate a vital organ? I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around this.


You ain't the only one.

Interesting speculations on the feasibility of the shot as described notwithstanding, this seems to defy the laws of anatomy and physics.

Reaching for the door, or his pants?

Even supposing he could accidentally pull the trigger of a firearm in his back pocket - wouldn't he practically have to be performing some kind of nameless unnatural act upon himself in order to get shot in the chest?

Not buying it.

John Wayne
July 21, 2009, 10:31 AM
Even supposing he could accidentally pull the trigger of a firearm in his back pocket - wouldn't he practically have to be performing some kind of nameless unnatural act upon himself in order to get shot in the chest?

Not necessarily. The gun could have slid out of his back pocket when he climbed in the seat, with the muzzle pointing forward toward the steering wheel. If he leaned forward to pick up something out of the floorboard, a button, snap, or other decoration on the pocket could have easily gone inside the trigger guard and pulled the trigger rearward as he bent over.

searcher451
July 21, 2009, 10:43 AM
There's a whole bunch about this discussion that is certainly not High Road, with an ugly tone set in the first half-dozen posts. It's a tough way to go out, a stupid way to go out, a puzzling way to go out. Is that cause to make light of it?

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 21, 2009, 11:07 AM
Definitely Darwin award candidate.

It does make me wonder whether *any* gangbangers do use a holster for their handgun - maybe the sophisticated banger uses a Milt Sparks or Mitch Rosen for their Hi-Point. No wait, that won't work, because that requires a belt, and a belt would keep the pants UP, and we cannot have that, now can we?

Searcher, the reason people are making light of it, is because we have no sympathy for the victim here. The reason we have no sympathy for the victim here is this:

Cochran spent 10 months in prison after a conviction for strong-arm robbery

sohcgt2
July 21, 2009, 11:09 AM
I wonder if the rightful owner of said death weapon will get it back now....

Not with the serial no. removed

pharmer
July 21, 2009, 11:14 AM
"An outgoing person"-Translation: A belligerent thug that would just as soon kill you if he perceived a threat or "dis". Joe

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