Buying on gun out of state


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gilfo
July 19, 2009, 12:27 PM
I plan on going to Virgina to see my daughter in college. Just for kicks I was going to shop around the local gun stores. Wondering if I came across something good could I buy it and walk out with it the same day with if the state reconizes my reciprocal conceal carry permit. I am talking about a Florida concealed carry permit. If so I would like any suggestions on fair priced gun shops in the Williamsburg and surrounding area's.
Thanks

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Liberty1776
July 19, 2009, 01:46 PM
Generally speaking a reciprocal CC Permit does not allow you to purchase a firearm, if you are not in a contiguous state with your state of residence, and then only if the two contiguous states have a purchase agreement in place...I believe...

earlthegoat2
July 19, 2009, 01:50 PM
Yeah, I am pretty sure it is a federal law that you have to be a resident of a state to purchase a handgun in that state and no others. You will need to do a transfer. Since you are from FL you will need to do a transfer for a long gun too since you are not in a contiguous state.

barneyrw
July 19, 2009, 03:05 PM
Have your daughter buy it.

SaxonPig
July 19, 2009, 03:51 PM
You cannot legally purchase a handgun in another state.

You can buy a long gun from an FFL and the law is that the laws of your home state must be observed. So if your state has a waiting period or any restrictions on magazines, etc. the dealer should go by those.

This is why except maybe for towns that border other states most dealers will not sell to out of state buyers because they don't want to risk doing something wrong.

The best way (although it adds to the cost) is have the dealer send the gun to a dealer in your locality for transfer to you. Means adding shipping and a fee to the transfer dealer to the cost. You have to decide if it's worth it. To most folks it is not.

Gun laws suck. All gun laws suck all the time. Period. All they do is interfere with law abiding people.

Quiet
July 19, 2009, 05:07 PM
Federal laws require handgun transactions to be processed through a FFL dealer in the buyer's state of residence.

So, you can buy it in VA. But, you can not take possession of it in VA. The seller will need to send it to a FL FFL dealer, where you will pay a transfer fee and do paperwork for it.

oneounceload
July 19, 2009, 05:14 PM
Have your daughter buy it.
That's called a "straw" purchase and is a big no-no. BIG fine and jail time

Some states allow sales of long guns to residents of contiguous states, but not handguns

SaxonPig
July 19, 2009, 07:05 PM
State laws will vary. Under federal law any resident from any state may purchase a long gun from a dealer in any other state as per the requirements I noted previously.

DasFriek
July 19, 2009, 09:12 PM
I just went too WV from Ohio for a funeral and i had a few minutes prior to it as i was early as usual.I stopped at the local gun shop and asked about purchasing since i was out of state and was told i could only purchase long guns.
Luckily the Chiefs Special they had was in .40 and not .45 or i would have cried.

Jim K
July 19, 2009, 10:17 PM
If you feel you might want to buy a handgun on your trip, here is what I suggest.

Before you go on your trip, visit your local Florida dealer and be sure he will accept a transfer from another state. If you are a good customer and he trusts you, he might let you have signed copies of his FFL to take along in case you want to buy something. If you see something you want, you can then give an FFL copy to the dealer in the other state, and the gun can be shipped without the delay of getting the receiving dealer's FFL.

A dealer in another state, VA in this case, will NOT ship a gun to another dealer without a signed copy of that dealer's FFL, and he will NOT allow you to take a handgun with you.

Incidentally, that contiguous state business was removed from the federal law years ago. You can purchase a long gun (rifle or shotgun) from an FFL dealer in any state, at his licensed premises and if neither state has any law prohibiting you from owning the long gun.

Jim

ArchAngelCD
July 20, 2009, 12:21 AM
That's called a "straw" purchase and is a big no-no. BIG fine and jail time

oneounceload,
A member of your immediate family can buy a gun and gift it to you without paperwork and without breaking any laws.

dirt_j00
July 20, 2009, 10:25 AM
ArchAngel -- does that also hold water if the two family members are resident of different states? It is my understanding that any interstate handgun transfer (sale, gift, trade, etc.) requires the handgun to be transferred to a FFL in the receiver's home state.

This does not note anything about "gifting": http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

NavyLCDR
July 20, 2009, 10:34 AM
oneounceload,
A member of your immediate family can buy a gun and gift it to you without paperwork and without breaking any laws.

That is not limited to family members, ArchAngelCD.

Generally speaking a reciprocal CC Permit does not allow you to purchase a firearm, if you are not in a contiguous state with your state of residence, and then only if the two contiguous states have a purchase agreement in place...I believe...
Yeah, I am pretty sure it is a federal law that you have to be a resident of a state to purchase a handgun in that state and no others. You will need to do a transfer. Since you are from FL you will need to do a transfer for a long gun too since you are not in a contiguous state.
You can buy a long gun from an FFL and the law is that the laws of your home state must be observed. So if your state has a waiting period or any restrictions on magazines, etc. the dealer should go by those.
Some states allow sales of long guns to residents of contiguous states, but not handguns

Prior to a 1986 amendment to the gun control act, Federal law allowed out of state purchases of long guns from FFLs only in contiguous states and only if state laws specifically allowed those purchases. Most states did enact laws allowing contiguous state long arm purchases. Almost all (if not all) of those states' laws prohibited nothing - they were only written to allow the purchases in accordance with the GCA.

In 1986 the GCA was ammended to allow out of state purchase of long guns from FFLs in any state, but the purchase must comply with the states' laws of BOTH the selling FFL and the buyer. So long as a state's laws did not specifically PROHIBIT an out of state purchase (and I don't know of any that do), those laws that were originally written to ALLOW the contiguous states purchasing now became meaningless.

Prior to the 1986 amendment, I do not know if Federal law allowed contiguous state purchases of long guns from private parties or not. However, since the 1986 amendment, I do know that Federal law now prohibits ANY transfers of all firearms between private parties who are residents of different states, regardless of whether tthe states are contiguous or not (with inheritance being the exception).

So, now, as long as there are no specific prohibitions in states' laws, "contiguous states" have absolutely no bearing on firearms transactions whatsoever.

It's all spelled out in the August, 2004 ATF Newsletter to FFLs:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/newsletter/ffl_newsltr_aug04.pdf

The Federal law regarding out of state purchasing is 18 USC 922 (a)(3), (a)(5) and (b)(3):
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

wyofool
July 20, 2009, 01:35 PM
If you hang out here long enough and read a lot of posts sooner or later you find answers. I have been wondering about this for a while and now have what I needed to know. Thanks NavyLT

ArchAngelCD
July 21, 2009, 03:15 AM
ArchAngel -- does that also hold water if the two family members are resident of different states? It is my understanding that any interstate handgun transfer (sale, gift, trade, etc.) requires the handgun to be transferred to a FFL in the receiver's home state.
Since his daughter is in college I'm guessing she not only has residence in her college state but at home too. (like my son does) Even if you don't live in the same state you can give a family member a gun if you choose to without doing any paperwork at all. (BTW, why did you link to the section that deals with "unlicensed persons"? Even so I think the last sentence in "B2" is of some interest. "A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes."

NavyLCDR
July 21, 2009, 09:18 AM
Since his daughter is in college I'm guessing she not only has residence in her college state but at home too. (like my son does)

1. Even if you don't live in the same state you can give a family member a gun if you choose to without doing any paperwork at all.

2. (BTW, why did you link to the section that deals with "unlicensed persons"?

3. Even so I think the last sentence in "B2" is of some interest. "A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes."

Very bad info you are giving here, ArchAngelCD.

Your statement #1 above is against Federal law, it causes two felonies to be committed. The first felony is the giver of the gift violating 18 USC 922 (a)(5) by giving a firearm to a person who is not a resident of their same state. The receiver of the gift violates 18 USC 922 (a)(3) by receiving into their own state of residence a firearm they received from an out of state source. There is no exception to this rule except for inheritance when someone dies. BTW, for firearms transactions, state of residence requires two things: first - actual physical presence in a state. Second - presence in that state with the intent of making a home (either permanent or temporary) in that state.

In regards to your question #2 above, the unlicensed persons section of the same law applies, because the license that is relevant to 18 USC 922 is an FFL - Federal Firearms License. We are talking about average Joe private citizens here who do not have FFLs.

In regards to your mentioning a loan of a firearm in statement #3 - the minute that a person brings a loaned firearm that they obtained from an out of state resident into their own state of residence, they have again violated 18 USC 922 (a)(3). There is no loaning exception to (a)(3). It's OK for me to loan you, an out of state resident, a firearm to use because that IS an exception in (a)(5) - but for you to take that loaned firearm back to your home state is a felony against (a)(3).

ANY transfer of ANY firearm across state lines of residence REQUIRES an FFL transfer, period, regardless of family relationship, regardless of gift or sale, regardless of contiguous states - the only exception being an inheritance when someone dies.

dirt_j00
July 21, 2009, 09:33 AM
I think NavyLT's response covered everything. :)

wnycollector
July 21, 2009, 09:34 AM
ANY transfer of ANY firearm across state lines of residence REQUIRES an FFL transfer, period, regardless of family relationship, regardless of gift or sale, regardless of contiguous states - the only exception being an inheritance when someone dies.

I am going on vacation tomorrow am and will be hitting 10 states between NY and SD. If I happen upon a long gun in a gun shop (FFL transfer) in my travels I'm OK to buy it and take it with me, as long as I meet my states law and the purchasing states law correct???

mgkdrgn
July 21, 2009, 11:11 AM
For purchase purposes, your carry permit is a nice piece of paper, but functionally mean diddly.

From the federal side:

You -can- purchase a long gun and take it with you. (provided there are no local laws that prevent that)

You -must- have a handgun shipped to a "local to where you live" (ie, same state as your legal residence) FFL to complete the transfer. You can not take it with you.

AgentOrange
August 5, 2009, 12:53 PM
one option is whilst your there, pick up the local sales rags and the local newspapers and look the sporting goods sections over. i knew one guy a couple years ago or so that drove from california to florida. everywere he stopped for the night, he picked up the local paper. by the time he got there and got home, he bought something like 50 guns, right out of the newspaper, cash and carry. whats funny is he even got stopped on not one but TWO occasions by the state troopers in two different states,told them he had the guns and was headed back home to california, and in both cases, he got "are they loaded" and "no problem, drive safely".

now, remeber ,i dont personally believe that its legal to do that, but who knows, and better yet, with the state of things anymore, who cares?

dirt_j00
August 5, 2009, 01:04 PM
It appears your acquaintance committed something like 50 felonies, unless those were all long-guns and purchased from FFLs.

nalioth
August 5, 2009, 01:08 PM
one option is whilst your there, pick up the local sales rags and the local newspapers and look the sporting goods sections over. i knew one guy a couple years ago or so that drove from california to florida. everywere he stopped for the night, he picked up the local paper. by the time he got there and got home, he bought something like 50 guns, right out of the newspaper, cash and carry. whats funny is he even got stopped on not one but TWO occasions by the state troopers in two different states,told them he had the guns and was headed back home to california, and in both cases, he got "are they loaded" and "no problem, drive safely".

now, remeber ,i dont personally believe that its legal to do that, but who knows, and better yet, with the state of things anymore, who cares? Nice of you to stay on the High Road, AO.

Advocating illegal activities is off topic here.

kingpin008
August 5, 2009, 01:59 PM
now, remeber ,i dont personally believe that its legal to do that, but who knows, and better yet, with the state of things anymore, who cares?

As other have already stated, WE care. On THR, we do things by the books. Period.

ArchAngelCD
August 6, 2009, 02:33 AM
NavyLT,
I didn't give anyone advice. All I was doing was participating in a discussion and point out what was written on a link someone else posted that was of interest to me. If you don't agree with me or I said something that was incorrect, fine, correct what I said but please don't say I gave anyone advice about anything that has to do with gun laws. Besides, anyone who listens to anything concerning gun laws on a forum is a total ass. I DID NOT advise anyone to do anything!! You on the other hand are the one giving advice and are presenting it as advice by quoting the laws you think apply.

BTW, my son lives in 2 different states during different parts of the year. He has legal residence in both states so I don't understand what the problem is... It's possible the OP's daughter also has legal residence in both states too.

ElToro
August 6, 2009, 03:07 AM
you do enough business with your FFL that hes cool to give you copy of his FFL right ?

if you find that must have item, just have them ship it to your FFL and you can do the paperwork when you get home.

nothing wrong with being all legal and stuff

dirt_j00
August 6, 2009, 10:00 AM
if you don't live in the same state you can give a family member a gun if you choose to without doing any paperwork at all.

ArchAngelCD - This statement you made is not true, but you stated it as fact. That is the crux of the matter.

ArchAngelCD
August 7, 2009, 12:41 AM
I'm done with this thread. This always happens, someone gives their opinion and all the arm-chair lawyers start running off at the mouth. You can think what you want and take what I said any way you want "dirt j00" but like I said, I gave my opinion, I didn't tell anyone to do anything... If I'm mistaken fine but I didn't force anyone to do anything. Don't make accusations, opinions are still legal in this country, at least for now.

NavyLCDR
August 7, 2009, 01:15 AM
http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu144/gl23_2009/aw_geez.jpg

dirt_j00
August 7, 2009, 09:20 AM
ArchAngelCD - its ok to say you were mistaken. No biggie.

ArchAngelCD
August 8, 2009, 03:06 AM
ArchAngelCD - its ok to say you were mistaken. No biggie.
Grow up, will ya... Try to act according to the standards of this fine forum instead of acting childish. Another brave soul who acts poorly because he can hide behind his monitor all safe at home and has very little social skills because they never interact with people face to face. :rolleyes:

walker944
August 8, 2009, 09:27 AM
I'm only seeing one person acting childish in this thread!!! Totally uncalled for.:mad:

KarenTOC
August 8, 2009, 10:20 AM
:::mom voice:::

Boys, if you can't play nicely together, I'm going to send you to your rooms.


:D

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