Pistol shooting advice...


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chriso
July 20, 2009, 02:48 AM
SO I have a glock 17, I love it and is a blast to shoot. As some of you know I am ambi shoot rifle better left and feel better shooting pistol right but can do either way without a problem. Well I noticed while shooting my pistol today Im not as accurate as Id like to be I noticed I often shoot to the left and a little low. I don't know if I am getting the wrong site picture does anyone have a picture of what proper site alignment on a pistol looks like "I have heard front site above rear or below or level or even the armies famous snowman with the M9" I want to be able to be quick and get rounds down range and on target quick as I am going to try for my CCW... Im kind of starting to think it's my sites as well "stock glock sites" as everyone else who shoots it seems to shoot left as well but I want to rule stuff out one at a time... thanks!!!

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The Wiry Irishman
July 20, 2009, 02:55 AM
Left and low usually is caused by anticipating recoil or jerking the trigger, providing you're right-handed.

David E
July 20, 2009, 03:00 AM
Left and low usually is caused by anticipating recoil or jerking the trigger, providing you're right-handed.

Ditto.

AWorthyOpponent
July 20, 2009, 04:29 AM
I don't know if I am getting the wrong site picture does anyone have a picture of what proper site alignment on a pistol looks like "I have heard front site above rear or below or level or even the armies famous snowman with the M9" I want to be able to be quick and get rounds down range and on target quick as I am going to try for my CCW...

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/6821/correcttargetpistolsighym7.jpg

Im kind of starting to think it's my sites as well "stock glock sites" as everyone else who shoots it seems to shoot left as well but I want to rule stuff out one at a time... thanks!!!

I actually took my G22 RTF to get new sights today. I was having the same problem (not anticipating recoil), and I too dislike the sights. I decided to get new ones and had the same problem. I thought I was crazy and had a couple of people shoot it with me. same thing. Turns out the sight alignment from the factory was a little off. Gunsmith fixed it in about 10 min, test fired and its GREAT...

RON in PA
July 20, 2009, 05:41 AM
Low and left is a classical complaint with Glocks, there must be hundreds of threads on the web about the subject. What the other posters have said and you just have to get used to the unique trigger of the Glock.

Frank Ettin
July 20, 2009, 05:43 AM
Left and low usually is caused by anticipating recoil or jerking the trigger, providing you're right-handed. That's been my experience as well. (You seem to be an experienced rifle shooter. But this are a little different with a pistol because you have less support.)

The first principle of accurate shooting is trigger control: a smooth, press straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving. Maintain your focus on the front sight as you press the trigger, increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. Don't try to predict exactly when the gun will go off nor try to cause the shot to break at a particular moment. This is what Jeff Cooper called the "surprise break."


By keeping focus on the front sight and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking. But if you try to make the shot break at that one instant in time when everything seem steady and aligned, you usually wind up jerking the trigger. Of course the gun will wobble some on the target. Try not to worry about the wobble and don’t worry about trying to keep the sight aligned on a single point. Just let the front sight be somewhere in a small, imaginary box in the center of the target.

Also, work on follow through. Be aware of where on the target the front sight is as the shot breaks and watch the front sight lift off that point as the gun recoils – all the time maintaining focus on the front sight.

Also, while practice in very important, remember that practice doesn’t make perfect. It’s “PERFECT practice makes perfect.” More frequent practice shooting fewer rounds, but concentrating hard on what you’re doing, will be more productive than less frequent, higher round count practice.

Practice deliberately, making every shot count, to program good habits and muscle memory. Dry practice is very helpful. You just want to triple check that the gun is not loaded, and there should be no ammunition anywhere around. When engaging in dry practice, religiously follow Rule 2 - Never Let Your Muzzle Cover Anything You Are Not Willing To Destroy." As you dry fire, you want to reach the point where you can't see any movement of the sight as the sear releases and the hammer falls.

Finally, some instruction is always a good idea. I try to take classes from time to time; and I always learn something new.

Think: front sight, press, surprise.

chriso
July 20, 2009, 01:02 PM
Yeah I noticed that if I aimed a bit the the right I was dead on but I don't want to have to do that every time, I shoot my pistol right handed. I hope that my sites are not out of wack from factory, and I hope I did not get a lemon like someone said in a post above "low and left is a common problem with glocks". I am a very experienced rifle shooter but pistl not as much and I would like to get better for some IDPA and 3 gun matches :)...

cactusgeorge
July 20, 2009, 01:24 PM
Many of the above posters have identified the "offending part", but failed to mention that the Glock trigger ...is totally unique in design. Dry practice is the only remedy.Work with your trigger control procedures intensely. The Glock trigger has abnormal amounts of "slack" present in it. If while attempting to fire the weapon, you start the trigger at rest and press right through it to and through "mechanical resistance", you will unknowingly move the mussle down and to the left enough to print on the target exactly that. Jerking the trigger to the rear will exaserbate this condition, as will anticipating the fact that the weapon is about to "go bang". All three in combination totally make it difficult to get consistent COM hits. First, take ALL the "slack" out of the trigger. Say to yourself, at the start of each dry practice session on trigger control "SLACK OUT, PRESS". When you reach "mechanical resistance" in the trigger. Focus on the front sight and start SLOW steady trigger pressure to the rear. 100% focus on the front sight... Forget about the weapon ever firing. Focusing on the front sight helps in this regard and also validates that the fornt sight and mussle are probably aligned on the COM. Good luck and DRY PRACTICE THIS constantly to raise your marksmanship skills.....

chriso
July 20, 2009, 02:48 PM
Ill definitely try the dry fire routine, a lot of times I wouldn't even be on target as well I just hope it's me and not the guns sites being all off alignment. Also after I get a little better I would like to try to speed up my shooting or I guess be able to draw fast and put rounds on COM for let's say IDPA type shooting stuff like that, any advice on how to practice for this or double taps?

Frank Ettin
July 20, 2009, 03:21 PM
In general, the way to learn to get fast is to go slow.

Seriously.

Being fast comes from being smooth, and being smooth starts with being slow. So for any physical skill, be it drawing your gun from a holster, shooting quick shot strings, moving with a loaded gun, etc., start off by doing it slowly. And while your doing it think about and concentrate on each component of the task, each step of the process, and focus on doing each step perfectly. Keep repeating the process and keep focusing on each step and doing it perfect. What you are doing is programing you body to ultimately perform the task reflexively, without conscious thought.

As you keep repeating the task, focusing on each part of the process, the "programing" keeps getting better, your actions get smoother; and as you get smoother, you also get faster. So slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.

To illustrate this, let's say you want to learn to draw your gun from the holster. The more-or-less standard presentation from a strong side belt holster, as taught most places these days, goes roughly like this:



[1] You want to achieve a full firing grip before withdrawing the pistol from the holster. You should not have to shift your grip. Throughout the draw stroke, until you are actually going to fire the gun, the trigger finger stays off the trigger, outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame. 



[2] While the strong hand is moving to grip the pistol, the weak hand is placed flat on the abdomen near the same level as the grip of the pistol. This helps assure that the weak hand isn't swept by the muzzle and also puts the weak hand in position to take grip the pistol over the strong hand.


[3] The pistol is withdrawn straight upwards from the holster, and the muzzle is rotated toward the target after it clears the holster. If using 1911, Browning High Power, or some other gun with a safety engaged, the safety may be disengaged here, but the trigger finger remains off the trigger, outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame.



[4] When the muzzle is rotated toward the target the strong hand is at about the level of the strong side pectoral muscle and the strong hand is held against the side with the muzzle pointed to the threat. If the threat is very close, 1-2 yards, the gun may be fired from this position. This is called the retention position. 



[5] At the retention position, the weak hand comes up to assume its part of the grip. The two hands then together extend the gun either fully up to shooting position or partially at a downward angle to the low ready position, depending on the circumstances.



[6] The gun is holstered by following those steps in reverse. I have been taught to follow these steps whenever removing my gun from, or placing my gun in, the holster.



[7] I've also been taught to begin moving my strong hand to the gun from about my belt buckle. The thing is that if I'm carrying my gun concealed I will need to displace my covering garment to gain access to the gun. If I sweep my strong from approximately mid line I automatically sweep aside my covering garment.



Begin, with a weapon you have confirmed to be unloaded, and perform the draw slowly, concentrating on each of these steps. Then do it again and again and again, over and over. You can graduate to doing this at the range, if the range will permit the use of a holster, and add live fire. So you'd draw, still slowly concentrating on doing each strep perfectly, and firing the gun when on target. The bad news is that it takes about 5,000 repetitions to make an action reflexive. The good news is that dry practice count, as long as you're doing everything perfectly. It's perfect practice that makes perfect.

Two key words here: smooth and control. The goal is to do this smoothly. If one concentrates on being smooth and practice over and over again, he will get fast. Speed comes from smoothness and no wasted motion. And one must be in control at all times. At lot is going on, and a misstep on the presentation can be devastating. But by being smooth you retain control, and by being smooth you become fast. And by being smooth and in control you will be accurate.


Finally, some professional training is always a good idea. There is really no good substitute for a qualified instructor watching you and helping you to correct things.

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