Best sights for "low light" conditions; No lasers, thank you!


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grndslm
July 20, 2009, 02:14 PM
I'm looking at a Bersa semi-auto pistol, but I notice that the colored dots are different from what I'm used to.

I had a silver slide before with black "sights" and white dots. Lots of contrast in this scenario, made the gun EXTREMELY visible while the sun was going down. The fiber optic sight on the Ruger I was shooting became invisible.

Soo.. the Bersas are slightly different from my old SW9VE. My choices are (1) an all black gun with white dots, or (2) black frame, silver slide and silver "sights" with red dots.

Which would be better for low light visibility scenarios? I love silver slides for some reason, but silver and red contrast... not so much, I'd think. The slide itself should be easily identifiable, especially in a situation where I dropped the pistol at night or was waving the gun at an unarmed BG. Worst case scenario, I could buy the one with silver slide and paint the "sights" black and the dots white, right??

What do you guys like better?

P.S. - Please do not vote unless you have experienced both types of sights. And hopefully you'll leave a comment as well. Thanks!

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grndslm
July 20, 2009, 05:16 PM
No comments?

I really wish I could hold both of these Bersas in my hand while there were only moonlight, but I can't. :(

rainbowbob
July 20, 2009, 05:26 PM
The slide itself should be easily identifiable, especially in a situation where I dropped the pistol at night or was waving the gun at an unarmed BG...

I can't help you with the sight question - but I gotta ask:

In what foreeable circumstances are you dropping the pistol or "waving" it at a BG?

grndslm
July 20, 2009, 05:41 PM
It's all theoretical. How about "End of the World" scenario?? :p

Like I said... with my S&W Sigma... I could shoot it as the sun was going down past the horizon, whereas the Glock (all black w/ yellow dots? I think.) and the Ruger (all black w/ red fiber optics) became impossible to see.

Visibility is one of those things you don't think about until it's too late. Everybody always talks about caliber... never about visibility during low light situations.

But, as stated, I'd like the BG to be able to see that I do have a weapon, which the silver slide wins without a doubt. But being able to aim in low light conditions is the real issue here.

Silver slide with silver "sights" and red dots is a new one to me, and I'm not sure if any other manufacturer is as fond of this setup as Bersa. I really don't think it'd be that hard of an issue to paint the one with the silver slide... but of course, I like to hear opinions from the experienced.

rcmodel
July 20, 2009, 05:41 PM
Yea! That dropping & waving is considered bad form!

I much prefer black guns for CCW.
Much easier to get made with a silver gun if your jacket flaps open briefly, etc.

I also prefer a real Tritium night sight front sight over any combination of colors & dots if low light shooting is called for.

Lining up three dots in a hurry will make you slow.
If you put the front sight on the target fast, you will most likely hit it fast.

rc

Mags
July 20, 2009, 05:48 PM
Where is the option for tritium dot sights? They are my only consuderation for low light or even complete darkness.

9mmepiphany
July 20, 2009, 05:56 PM
for me:

basic low light = front dot night sight
fancy low light = front night sight and bar under the rear notch

aligning a 3 dot night sight system is the slowest combination for low light shooting...this is based on enough practice to properly make sight alignment a sub-concious function

grndslm
July 20, 2009, 06:01 PM
Yea! That dropping & waving is considered bad form!Heh... no joke!

It's THE worst case scenario situation, tho. Out in middle of nowhere that's pitch black, and you fumble the gun while trying to grip it. BLAM! Ya drop it and can't find it in the foot tall grass.

And by "wave" I didn't literally mean wave. I meant "whip it out and aim".

grndslm
July 20, 2009, 06:04 PM
Where is the option for tritium dot sights? They are my only consuderation for low light or even complete darkness.I don't think Bersas have that option??

rainbowbob
July 20, 2009, 06:19 PM
I'd like the BG to be able to see that I do have a weapon...


If you want the BG to know you have a weapon - why not yell, "I HAVE A GUN! - STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!"?


Out in middle of nowhere that's pitch black, and you fumble the gun while trying to grip it. BLAM! Ya drop it and can't find it in the foot tall grass.

If you drop your gun in tall grass in the middle of the night - yer screwed no matter what color your slide is. If you are loosing sleep over such a hypothetical occurrence, I'd suggest you practice drawing from concealment (with an UNLOADED firearm).

OK...I'll butt out now...I'm not much help with night sights, since I haven't effectively solved that problem myself with my old J-frame. My hopeful assumption is that if I can see the target - I can "whip it out and aim".

grndslm
July 20, 2009, 06:27 PM
I'm sure I would... but I'd prefer that he SEE the gun instead of just taking my word for it.

I'm one of those Doubting Thomas types, and a lotta BGs are undoubtedly the same way.

grndslm
July 20, 2009, 06:28 PM
Think I'm gonna go with silver slide and red dots and see how that works... then just paint if necessary.

robphillips
July 20, 2009, 06:32 PM
I like the green sights myself. Just seems easier to see.

grndslm
July 20, 2009, 08:34 PM
Nevermind...

I think I'm gonna go with the one that comes black stock w/ the white dots.

I dunno about painting sights and dots... hi-temp paint, anyone?

earlthegoat2
July 20, 2009, 11:28 PM
Uhhhhh, night sights, if it doesnt have them, then get them.

Was this a hypothetical question?

grndslm
July 21, 2009, 12:06 AM
No, this is a real question... because I hunt people when a full moon comes out. :neener:

Can I add night sights to any pistol I like? Probly not, but I'd love it if you prove me otherwise. This question *was* a hypothetical question in regards to my choices with the Bersa Firestorm.

EDIT: Anybody know of a reasonable way to paint sights with hi-temp paint? And yes, this is a hypothetical question.

Diamondback6
July 21, 2009, 01:58 AM
Contact Lauer Custom Weaponry, they probably got a color of Duracoat for ya--anything from clear to Pepto-Bismol Pink. (Yeah, they're the guys New York Reichsfuhrer Buttberg tried to sue over gun colors!)

Mags
July 21, 2009, 02:04 AM
Can I add night sights to any pistol I like?
Maybe, you can purchase the tritium vials separately and drill holes in your sights to mount the vials. But I would check the following manufacture's wesites first. Mepro Light, Trijicon, Tru-Glo, and Ameriglo. I am sure I missed some. Good Luck!

earlthegoat2
July 21, 2009, 10:01 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-59281.html

This states that Trijicon will do a custom job on the Bersa series of pistols for 3x the cost of the night sights alone. 300 bucks for night sights but where theres a will theres a way. Or at least where there is enough money theres a way.

Can I add night sights to any pistol I like? Probly not, but I'd love it if you prove me otherwise.

Done

No malice towards you here I am just protecting my good name.;)

grndslm
July 21, 2009, 12:36 PM
BLAH! :barf:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)

I guess I'll just go with the all black w/ white dots. :(

rcmodel
July 21, 2009, 03:09 PM
Anybody know of a reasonable way to paint sights with hi-temp paint?No need atall for high-temp paint on a handgun.

They don't ever get that hot or you couldn't hang on to it to keep shooting.

Testers Model Paint is enamel, and works just fine for sight dots.

Just fill the dots with a toothpick.

If you mess up, wash it off with paint thinner before it drys.

rc

ArmedBear
July 21, 2009, 03:38 PM
I have some combo fiber/tritium sights on an XD. Previous owner put them on it. He must have had a bad right flinch, because I had to re-center the rear sight when I got the gun.

They work great in any light. I think they're 100 bucks a set, though.:(

ztnedman1
July 21, 2009, 03:43 PM
I would love to know which scenerio you are expecting where you would have time to look + aim your sights in a self defense situation.

grndslm
July 21, 2009, 03:52 PM
It's not even just about the sights, honestly...

I think it's more about seeing the angle of the slide. If you can see the angle of the slide, you can aim without even glancing at the dots. But if you can see the angle of the slide AND the white dots, it only makes it all the better for you, right??

That's why I like black frame, silver slide, black sights, white dots... plenty of contrast to QUICKLY and EASILY determine where the bullet is gonna travel.

grndslm
July 21, 2009, 04:06 PM
No need atall for high-temp paint on a handgun.

They don't ever get that hot or you couldn't hang on to it to keep shooting.

Testers Model Paint is enamel, and works just fine for sight dots.

Just fill the dots with a toothpick.

If you mess up, wash it off with paint thinner before it drys.

rc Cool. And what would I paint the "sights" with? Not black enamel, right? Black... ?? And a toothpick would be good enough for this too, I'm guessing?

ArmedBear
July 21, 2009, 04:07 PM
I would love to know which scenerio you are expecting where you would have time to look + aim your sights in a self defense situation.

If you know how to acquire a target with your handgun, it would be most scenarios. It doesn't take time if you know how to point the gun -- the sights will already be there in front of your eyes. (For me, a Glock won't point worth crap, so I don't have or want any. That's the first thing I check: when I raise the gun, are the sights already aligned?)

Of course, you could be hip shooting, but short of that, the sights are useful if your gun fits you and you can shoot. You may not line them up very carefully, but they do tell you where the gun is aimed.

Too many people think that lining up the sights is a separate action from pointing the gun at the target. It's not, at least if you expect to be able to hit anything under pressure.

grndslm
July 21, 2009, 04:15 PM
FWIW, rcmodel... this is what the sights on the gun I'm interested in look like... A very ugly combination, and with the "sights" themselves being the same shiny color as the slide... it causes enough glare, so that painting these sights black and the dots white would be smart enough for daytime situations as well.

Any more tips on how I can fix the contrast of these sights?? Now I'm thinking I won't get the all black if I can paint this easily enough... and the paint will stick if handled properly.

Thanks in advance!

grndslm
July 21, 2009, 05:19 PM
Remind me never to add a poll to any thread of mine ever again...

It's counter-productive. :banghead:

Mags
July 21, 2009, 05:40 PM
Check these guys out I have used their products on my Taurus PT92 and my Walther P22, I think they work great if you don't mind charging them. But for all my carry guns I still use tritium sights.http://www.brightsights.com/index.shtml

grndslm
July 23, 2009, 09:08 PM
I don't trust myself to paint a gun (plus don't feel like paying for a couple different shades of paint, prolly even the hi-temp kinds), so I went with the all black with white dots.

Game Over.

AKElroy
July 23, 2009, 09:47 PM
Lining up three dots in a hurry will make you slow.
If you put the front sight on the target fast, you will most likely hit it fast.

+1. Heine is on to something with thier Straight-8 sights; Big Trijicon front, little Trijicon rear, stack em' for quick shot picture. Just put them on my XDm; love em'. Scroll down to the 5th & 6th posts in the below thread for a peek--

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=458867

Mags
July 23, 2009, 11:51 PM
Is it hard to transition back and forth between 3 dot sights and the straight 8 sight?

AKElroy
July 24, 2009, 12:02 AM
Maybe. I have not had a chance to get to the range since I had them put on. I have traditional 3 dot Trijicon Novak's on my Glock, and the POI will likely be different. I'll post back when I've run em' in--

grndslm
July 25, 2009, 11:58 AM
http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/what_happens_gunfight/index.html

Finally got around to reading this "What Really Happens In A Gunfight" article... and guess what I got out of it! That being able to visibly see contrast in your sights is the only "tool" that will increase your chances of survival... all the other variables relate to your awareness, mindset, preparation, and a little bit of luck.

9mmepiphany
July 25, 2009, 04:29 PM
^^^

...and that directly relates to the effectiveness of the single powered nightsight in the front blade

9mmepiphany
July 25, 2009, 04:32 PM
Is it hard to transition back and forth between 3 dot sights and the straight 8 sight?

it would depend on your sense of organization.

some folks align better vertically while others do better horizontally

grndslm
July 27, 2009, 09:28 AM
Don't laugh... but now that I've been playing Duck Hunt for about an hour all together, I find it extremely easy to aim without using the sights at all. The point and shoot method just comes naturally for me, I guess. I've got a firm grip, I've got good vision, and I'm good with angles. "Cone of vision" is very real.

Soo... I'm starting to think that the point and shoot method during a nighttime scenario has A LOT more to do with a silver slide than white dots. White dots might be better for aiming, but the silver slide trumps most all nighttime scenarios. But of course, silver slide and white dots with contrast between those two colors is the absolute best. :D

Hmm... I'm guessing it'd be better to paint a nickeled slide than a blued slide, eh? Any insight on this?

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