Old Gun Done Anew, What Do You Think Would Make It


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MagnumDweeb
July 21, 2009, 02:11 PM
A lot of us love old guns, we have some strange draw to firearms that their design has become deemed 'obsolete.' More poignant in my opinion have been the Colt Models 1903 and 1908. If you own one of these guns(I own a 1903) or own a Tokarev, you likely enjoy the design and the feel of it in your hand. I own both Tokarevs in 7.62x25, 9mm, and 9x23 Winchester(that's also eaten .38 Super and 9x23 Largo).

The little Colt 1903 in .32 ACP feels real nice when I shoot it and while it is only a .32 ACP, with the right ammo it'd make a decent tool box gun if I could find spare parts for it (barrel, slides, etc.). I know someone who has a 1908 that they converted to 9mm Long Ball (using the old ammo you find at Samco Global) and the few times he's let me fire it, it's been a rather pleasant shooter.

And of course there is Cylinder and Slide who is known to rework old 1908s into shooting .45 ACP(granted it's around 14k for one of those reworks). And there are the old Astra model C96 remakes.

What really got me going was I at a my buddies's Dad's pawnshop and he had one of the snub nose Armscor revolvers come in. It was a nicely made gun, a shame it can hand +P, it looked pristine and for $200 I'm sure I'll be kicking myself for not getting it one day. Armscor is supposed to be using old Colt production machines to be making these guns, and likewise are cranking out 1911s as well.

So there is a lot of potential out there for old models to make a come back like the S&W 1917(now models 21 and 22), Classic S&W 29, Classic S&W 25.

Frankly I'd like to see the Colt 1903 and 1908 brought back with modern metallurgy but in other calibers as well. A 1903 in 9mm or .380 would be nice, with the ability to convert it to Sig .357. All steel pistols that fit nicely in one's hand I find more pleasant than polymer guns.

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MattTheHat
July 21, 2009, 02:18 PM
The C&S isn't a rework. It's a completely new pistol that starts with a standard 1911 frame and slide that are welded up to cosmetically match the 1903. I sure wish I could afford one. It would look nice sitting next to my 1903 and 1908 Type I Colts.

-Matt

rcmodel
July 21, 2009, 02:24 PM
A 1903 in 9mm or .380 would be nice, with the ability to convert it to Sig .357.Well, then it wouldn't be a 1903 any longer.

It would have to be re-designed from a blow-back action to some sort of locked breech to handle 9mm or .357 SIG pressure.

A 1903 pocket hammerless in .380 ACP would be a 1908 pocket hammerless.

IMO: The whole insurmountable problem with anyone bringing back those old guns is:
1. Cost - They all are labor intensive with a lot of hand fitting & finishing nobody can afford to do, even if they could find the skilled labor to do it.
Which they can't.

2. Safety features: None of the old guns had even the simple things taken for granted today, like positive drop firing pin safeties, etc. Todays legal climate would not allow them to be sold in the most populace markets like California, NY, etc.

3. If they can't sell a lot of them, they can't afford to make them at any price we could afford to pay. (Witness the C&S 1911 remake of the .45 ACP pocket hammerless.)

rc

Claude Clay
July 21, 2009, 02:28 PM
good post.

i am also of the ' well liked' 1903 & 1908 colts.
they are my opera/church & dancin guns.
sleek and so~~sexy. wearing it make you want to dress up & think like great grandad.

built with todays metal im sure a 9mm would be ok [ could it be gas operated like a P-7?]. but i'd be loath to fire on someone if it meant the LEO's would be takin it as evidence. rather use a K-T. actually rather not have to shot anyone at all.

Dr.Rob
July 21, 2009, 02:38 PM
Given the recent craze in pocket and CCW guns, Colt would do well to re-introduce their DS2 and Magnum Carry revolvers as well as a revamped 380.

Then again I'd really be tickled by a re-issue New Service in 45 ACP or (reworked naturally) in 44 magnum (no there is no good reason for this).

heviarti
July 21, 2009, 04:18 PM
I say C96 mauser with a lockwork redesigned around coil springs, and a coil spring loaded claw-on-pivot style extractor. Beef it up just a little at the low spot in the barrel extension, and through the chamber. Either second type or universal safety should be good enough. Remember, nobody has complained about the M1A or Mini 14 safties, and they are adequate.

As to the chambering, beefed up for 7.62 Tokarev in the Czech loading, 5.7x28, and .30 carbine.

robphillips
July 21, 2009, 04:26 PM
I wouldn't be suprised to see Colt bring back the Mustang.

Dr.Rob
July 21, 2009, 07:29 PM
Well I'm not sure if Colt has licensed Sig to make it or if Colt sold off the rights. I'd suspect the former over the latter.

shotgunjoel
July 21, 2009, 07:56 PM
Frankly I'd like to see the Colt 1903 and 1908 brought back with modern metallurgy but in other calibers as well. A 1903 in 9mm or .380 would be nice, with the ability to convert it to Sig .357. All steel pistols that fit nicely in one's hand I find more pleasant than polymer guns.

They did make it in .380

2RCO
July 21, 2009, 08:06 PM
I got my Paws on the C&S 2008 at the Tulsa Gun Show. They are supposed to sell for 4k (Looks like they have them listed for $2995)according to the guys I talked to, all they had with them was the Prototype and I offered them 5k for it they wouldn't take it. It's really only a customized 1911 but it shure is pretty. It was very hard to peel my hands off of it.

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/media/ccp0/prodxl/RH-Viewxlg.jpg

SharpsDressedMan
July 21, 2009, 08:19 PM
16 years ago I had a Colt 1908 .380 modified with cocabolo grips, higher fixed sights (the rear was a reversed Beretta 92 sight, front was a serrated ramp), and matte blued. I foolishly traded it at a gun shop. The little Pocket Hammerless .32 or .380 is a great platform for some custom stuff, especially sights, as long as you start with a gun with little finish or don't care about the collectors value of nicer examples. I am happy with mostly stock/vintage stuff now, as the little sight add a challenge to my shooting skills....it's just fun to shoot them. Ivory grips are one modification that never goes down in value. Kent Singletary does work on the Colts 1903/1908, and his work is first rate.

Quiet
July 21, 2009, 08:54 PM
I wouldn't be suprised to see Colt bring back the Mustang.
Well I'm not sure if Colt has licensed Sig to make it or if Colt sold off the rights. I'd suspect the former over the latter.
Colt sold the rights and the tooling for the Mustang to SIG.
SIG is now producing their version called the P-238.

strangelittleman
July 21, 2009, 09:27 PM
I'd like to see the Remington Model 51, Savage 1907, Colt .357, The S&W N-frame 520 and 3/12" M27 .357s., I'd also be interested in the Walther PP Super and the Star Firestar.

Jim K
July 21, 2009, 10:15 PM
Go on dreaming, folks, and you can join the people who long for new Lugers, new Krags, and dozens of other oldies made "like they used to make them." Ain't gonna happen. That C&S gun at $4000 shows why, and IIRC it is made with castings, not "all milled parts" like the old ones. The main problem is that there are far too many of the old ones around. Nobody is going to pay $4000 or $5000 for a reproduction .32 Model 1903 when nice originals run $600. And Mauser did try to resume Luger manufacture and lost a lot of money. It cost more than an original and had zero historical or collector value.

Jim

Antihero
July 21, 2009, 10:47 PM
I'd like to see the Remington Model 51

+1 id buy one.

Pack
July 22, 2009, 01:33 AM
Walther P.38 chambered in 45 ACP, with a better trigger pull.

The grips on these are so thick. If it were made with a wide grip frame, and really skinny grip panels (a la Para Ordnance guns), it could even go double-stack. Just for grins.

Oh, and in 45 or the original 9mm - now that I'm not a child and would find/make the necessary money to lay my hands on a new one...

Sig P210 needs to make a comeback. Seriously.

Quiet
July 22, 2009, 02:55 AM
I want a Mauser C-96 in 7.62x25mm.

Oyeboten
July 22, 2009, 04:27 AM
Savage .45 Auto...

Luger .45 Auto

Broommhandle Mauser .45 Auto...

Shrounded Hammer Colt .45 Auto, as one of the variants John Browning had originally proposed anyway, looking like a BIG 1903 .32 Auto...like the illustration above shows...

Ivor Johnson, 5 shot, Break-Top, Hammer and Hammerless Revolvers, taking the .45 Autocolt Cartridge, using Moon Clips.


Guide Lamp type 'Liberator' Pistols, in .45 Auto, being Air-dropped over all slums and ghettos and inner citys...so folks could have more items for those 'buy-back' programs, as well as their own amusement...San Francisco, Los Angelas, New York City and Chicago, especially...

DrLaw
July 22, 2009, 07:38 AM
Hmmm, no .45 caliber bias by Oyeboten there, eh? :neener:

I recently saw a mini-revolver that looked like a Remington 1858. It was a .22, I think by Freedom or North American, or some company like that. I was thinking that they could bulk it up to .32 S&W, .38 S&W, .32 ACP or .380 ACP and it would make a decent pocket revolver ala the late 1800's, early 1900's.

With the better quality of metal work today, some of those top-breaks of yesteryear, which were pretty small in their own right, well, I'd use - and carry - if I lived in a state where our politicians trusted us, instead of worrying whether we would use the guns on them - in self-defense of course - seeing as how we have the highest rate of convicted politicians in the country - all felons by the way. (that's right, don't get me started... :cuss:) They fit in a pocket just fine without imprinting.

The Doc is out now. :cool:

heviarti
July 23, 2009, 12:39 AM
now that you mention it... smith and wesson safety hammerless with the third model cosmetics in 9mm. moon clips.. +p capable.. and with that *beautiful* trigger pull.

robphillips
July 23, 2009, 12:20 PM
I didn't know that. I have seen the p238 and it may not be an exact copy but it is sure close.

Brian Williams
July 23, 2009, 02:28 PM
I would like to see a nice 1st series Colt Woodsman.

Vern Humphrey
July 23, 2009, 03:23 PM
Given the recent craze in pocket and CCW guns, Colt would do well to re-introduce their DS2 and Magnum Carry revolvers as well as a revamped 380.
They really no longer have the expertise or manufacturing capability to mass produce quality revolvers
Then again I'd really be tickled by a re-issue New Service in 45 ACP or (reworked naturally) in 44 magnum (no there is no good reason for this).
So would many of us -- but Colt's last venture into a .45/44 revolver flopped.

rcmodel
July 23, 2009, 03:24 PM
I would like to see a nice 1st series Colt Woodsman.
+1

USFA announced one at the 2007 Shot Show.

Wonder what ever happened to that plan?

http://www.usfirearms.com/pages/woodsman_press_release.asp

rc

Oyeboten
July 23, 2009, 06:36 PM
Hi DrLaw,


Hmmm, no .45 caliber bias by Oyeboten there, eh?


It's a mood-thing...I was in a .45 ACP mood...Lol...


But really...a well done re-do of the old S&W 'Lemon Squeezer' or Iver Johnson Break-Top Hammerless in 9mm Luger, using Moon Clips, would be pretty dandy.

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