Spanish Mdl 1916 in 7.52 Spanish


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fishezes
July 21, 2009, 03:38 PM
I recently purchased a Spanish Mdl 1916 that was used by the Guardia Civil. It is chambered for 7.52 Spanish ammo. I am having all kinds of trouble locating ammo for this Mauser. Any suggestions?

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nalioth
July 21, 2009, 03:44 PM
First, it's not chambered for any "Spanish ammo".

I think you'll find '7.62 Nato" on the barrel. Please stick to 7.62 Nato in these, as commercial .308 Winchester is loaded to higher pressures.

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/726/3082pc6.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3082pc6.jpg)

fishezes
July 21, 2009, 03:57 PM
The barrel is actually stamped "CAL 7.52". I know this is a rare variation, but have found specs, but no suppliers for the ammo online. From what I understand they were used by the Guardia Civil who stood guard for the Spanish Royal Family.

SDC
July 21, 2009, 04:38 PM
The stamping has to be a mistake or light enough that you're misreading it; these rifles were originally manufactured in 7mm Mauser or 8mm Mauser, but later converted to 7.62mm NATO.

rcmodel
July 21, 2009, 05:32 PM
It may look like it says 7.52 but it was just a bad stamp job.
Which seems to be pretty common.
Maybe they had a broken #6 metal stamp for awhile?

I can assure you there is no such thing as 7.52 Spanish ammo.
It is 7.62 NATO.

http://photos.joesalter.com/10884/10884-17.jpg

rc

Ron James
July 21, 2009, 08:39 PM
Perhaps it is in the original cambering of 7.57. A light strike on a 7 would look very much like a two. BTW , yes the Guardia Civil may have guarded the royal family. but they also guarded every one else, The Guardia Civil or Civil Guard was the Spanish police that could be used in a para-military role, what ever the he** that means.

Jim K
July 22, 2009, 12:53 AM
Sorry, but that is a broken stamp. The middle number is a 6. Note that the lower part of the "L" in CAL is also broken.

FWIW, I recommend that the rifle not be fired. Even the 7.62 NATO milstandard pressure of 52,000 psi is quite a bit higher than the 40,000 psi the rifle was designed for.

Ron, the French Gendarmerie, the Spanish Guardia Civil and the Italian Carabinieri are examples of national police forces that are actually part of the nation's armed forces. The members are trained as soldiers, in regular army training camps, then choose to go into the national police rather than the regular army. They normally wear police uniforms and carry only light weapons, but they have or can obtain military weapons and equipment if necessary.

Those nations also have separate city/local police who are closer to what we think of as police forces.

(Edited to correct "surete" to "gendarmerie".)
Jim

Ron James
July 22, 2009, 07:03 PM
:) I once sped three days in Barcelona, but in those young days I wasn't interested on history or politics, Only how much wine I could drink and young Spanish girls.:)

fishezes
July 22, 2009, 09:07 PM
OK, OK. I'm convinced that it is chambered in 7.62 NATO. The more I look at the '5', the upper left corner that should be squared off is more rounded.
I really appreciate all the input. I'm gonna cease and desist my search for the 7.52 ammo. On the bright side, I do still have two variations of the 1916, and they're both in very good shape. I got the 7.62 for not too much money at a local auction. So all-in-all the world is good! Thanks again. Bry

imhatz
November 25, 2009, 11:39 AM
i have just bought a model 1916 308 ...i want to deer hunt....is a commercial load 150 gr good...it is a small ring....i was thinking serb ammo prvi partizan

imhatz
November 25, 2009, 12:14 PM
i have more details of model 1916 ...it is Mauser marked C.A.I. ST ALBVT M1916 .308 Win

what safe ammo....deer hunt load ? thanks.....mark

armoredman
November 25, 2009, 02:30 PM
The Guardia Civil mauser was tested to destruction by H.P. White Labs in the 60s, and proven safe with normal loadings of 7.62 ammunition.

imhatz
November 25, 2009, 07:46 PM
armoredman: thanks for the reply what 7.62 should I use...is it a 51 or 57

thanks...mark

imhatz
November 25, 2009, 08:12 PM
okay....I found this stuff...will this be a good ammo for hunting ?
Silver BearŪ .308 WinchesterŪ 140 - grain SP Ammo. 7.62x51

MCgunner
November 25, 2009, 09:19 PM
FWIW, I recommend that the rifle not be fired. Even the 7.62 NATO milstandard pressure of 52,000 psi is quite a bit higher than the 40,000 psi the rifle was designed for.

That's why I bought one in 7x57 which is a fine caliber and I already had dies for it. It had such a fast twist rate, it wasn't worth a toot with anything, but Hornady 175 round nose, but it shot okay with that. Heavy SOB, though. I sold it after buying a Savage in 7mm Rem Mag. Now, I have a M7 Remington which is perfectly safe with full pressure .308 Winchester.

Wanna hunt deer? Buy a deer rifle. Don't wind up with a face full of bolt. Actually, though, the main danger in the guns is their lack of gas venting. If you rupture a case, the gas will vent into your face. On the 98 mauser, that was addressed with a gas vent to the side of the front ring in the action. But, they do lack a back up safety lug on the bottom of the bolt that the 98 has, too. Mauser got it all right in 1898.

Jim K
November 26, 2009, 01:34 AM
IMHO, if you want to shoot .308 Winchester in that rifle, I don't suppose it matters which brand or bullet weight.

Jim

imhatz
November 26, 2009, 08:49 AM
I thank you all for your comments...it sounds like I have a rifle for the cabinet.
If I were to shoot it...what ammo...7.62 what ?
I should have researched more prior to buying...
I hear you all by saying 308 is too hot....but where do I get a less hot round 7.62x?. I am not a smith and need advise.....I will listen to your responses and decide to shoot or not to shoot. I do not shoot these guns alot....I sight them in ...shoot a deer and then retire the gun to the cabinet. I have many one shot sporters after sight in..6.5carc, 7.7arisaka, 8mm cz24, 8mm k98 to name a few....so is the model 1916 junk

gyvel
December 2, 2009, 02:05 AM
It seems like all the posts regarding the firing of .308 ammo in these guns as opposed to 7.62 NATO spec ammo are being ignored.

DO NOT fire any commercial .308 ammo in these guns, and I really have reservations regarding the firing of 7.62 also, but the Spaniards seem to have gotten away with it and H. P. White labs did do some proof tests on them.

The other obvious point that seems to be constantly overlooked is that, from what I understand, the Spanish loaded 7.62 ammo is a lighter load to begin with to accomodate their CETME rifles.

Too many myths have been foisted by arms merchants on the American gun buying public to facilitate selling profitable surplus arms, and one of the biggest "lies" I can recall is the old "you can shoot ANY length 9mm cartridge through an Astra 400."

This .308 Mauser business, IMO, is no different.

Of course, it's YOUR eyes and fingers.

sonofbubba
August 21, 2013, 12:34 AM
I found one of these marked guns in my father's cabinet. He's gone so i felt the need to figure it out. The comments here made me look closely at the mark...sure enough, its not 7.52 it is 7.62.

I first read this thread and similar ones and everyone was stuck on the .308 v 7.62 nato...followed by a bunch of advice about what not to shoot. Problem is that a .308 won't even chamber...not by a long sight. So i melted some sulfur and made my first chamber cast. Voila.

It is 7.62x39.

Im posting to the dead thread since googling 7.52 cal brings people here first.

rcmodel
August 21, 2013, 01:10 AM
Then it has been re-barreled, or set back & re-chambered, or had a chamber adopter put in it.

They were never made in 7.62x39 by the Spanish government.

rc

justashooter in pa
August 21, 2013, 12:08 PM
an interesting adaptive solution to a very real problem. the spanish designed early CETME required a special loading of the 7.62X51 to specs similar to 30-30, making it a controllable select fire gun. the 7X57 1916 guns were converted to use this ammo, which runs about 40KSI in pressure. the FR7 and FR8 were similarly converted for the same ammo, but are better made later model mausers that can safely handle the 30 nato and 308 pressures. you are prolly looking at a chamber insert.

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

desidog
August 21, 2013, 06:01 PM
A lot of wrong info in this thread. It has also been extensively covered in numerous other threads.

The Spanish used 7,62 CETME. Anyone who says NATO is wrong. Proof: NATO wasn't around yet...

While the cartridges' external dimensions are similar enough to chamber and shoot, the small ring Mauser receivers were not designed to handle the pressure of modern .308win loads; and the headspace of 7,62 CETME vs. .308win is also questionable.
The second posts' attached image was for marketing fro the guys trying to unload them...

Jim K
August 21, 2013, 08:43 PM
The FR7 is a converted Model 1916; the FR8 is a converted Model 1943. The number shows the original caliber, the FR7 a converted 7mm and the FR8 a converted 8mm.

Jim

sonofbubba
August 21, 2013, 09:26 PM
Ok.

Lets unwind this a little bit. This is an old thread. I don't think anyone posting in the last day is advocating using 308 ammo. For some reason, we all agree yet we are still arguing about it.

I have a weapon that matches the description. I did a chamber cast...its 7.62x39.

I think the pressures will be fine in that caliber...maybe a insert was installed because this NATO pressure vs 308 pressure argument seems to a always turn into a 'who is the smartest gunsmith' argument and the guy who converted it didn't want to have the conversation anymore.

My advice to anyone who finds this thread is to do the same....go to gunsmith and make it physically impossible to chamber an ovrr pressure round. And when you are dead and gone,
No one will pick up the wrong ammo and make the mistake that has been belabored here.

Thanks guys, i will return to lurking.

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