selling reloads?


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banjoman2255
July 21, 2009, 10:05 PM
If I start reloading pistol ammo is it legal for me to sell it without an FFL?

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flipajig
July 21, 2009, 10:13 PM
bad idea.. I shoot my reloads and only mine.. will not sell any.. and will not load for a friend.. what works in my guns will work in others as well but i wont find out..to big of a lyability..

zxcvbob
July 21, 2009, 10:18 PM
No. You also need a ridiculous expensive license from the State Dept.

mallc
July 21, 2009, 10:20 PM
Most will tell you not to do it. I will tell you to think about it carefully.

It's fairly involved to do it safely. It's fairly involved to do it legally. It's fairly involved to do it economically.

ATF requires a Type 6 FFL. You have to register with various tax agencies and pay fees. You should have insurance and insurance cost depends on your systems and capabilities. Add to that the cost and availability of supplies and you are asking a question of commitment and patients.

Hope this helps.
Scott

fourdollarbill
July 21, 2009, 10:28 PM
It is definitely illegal without the proper licensing. I spent an afternoon reading the United States code and put together this file just for this question. Sorry to burst any bubbles but better to be safe than jailed.

Strategic selling is optional!:rolleyes:


United States Code
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
Section 921. Definitions
Section 922. Unlawful Acts
Section 923. Licensing
Section 924. Penalties
Section 925. Exceptions: Relief From Disabilities
Section 925A. Remedy For Erroneous Denial Of Firearm
Section 926. Rules And Regulations
Section 926A. Interstate Transportation Of Firearms
Section 927. Effect On State Law
Section 928. Separability
Section 929. Use Of Restricted Ammunition
Section 930. Possession Of Firearms And Dangerous Weapons In Federal Facilities
Section 931. Prohibition On Purchase, Ownership, Or Possession Of Body Armor By Violent Felons



Section 921. Definitions

(a) As used in this chapter -
(1) The term "person" and the term "whoever" include any
individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership,
society, or joint stock company.

(10) The term "manufacturer" means any person engaged in the
business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for purposes of
sale or distribution; and the term "licensed manufacturer" means
any such person licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

(17)(A) The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge
cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in
any firearm.

(21) The term "engaged in the business" means -
(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who
devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as
a regular course of trade or business with the principal
objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or
distribution of the ammunition manufactured;

(22) The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and
profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of
firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary
gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating
a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit
shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and
repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal
purposes or terrorism. For purposes of this paragraph, the term
"terrorism" means activity, directed against United States persons,
which -



Section 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful -
(1) for any person -

(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to
engage in the business of importing or manufacturing
ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship,
transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign
commerce;


Section 923. Licensing

(a) No person shall engage in the business of importing,
manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or importing or
manufacturing ammunition, until he has filed an application with
and received a license to do so from the Attorney General. The
application shall be in such form and contain only that information
necessary to determine eligibility for licensing as the Attorney
General shall by regulation prescribe and shall include a
photograph and fingerprints of the applicant. Each applicant shall
pay a fee for obtaining such a license, a separate fee being
required for each place in which the applicant is to do business,
as follows:
(1) If the applicant is a manufacturer -
(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices
or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year;
(B) of firearms other than destructive devices, a fee of $50
per year; or
(C) of ammunition for firearms, other than ammunition for
destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $10
per year.


Section 924. Penalties

(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection,
subsection (b), (c), or (f) of this section, or in section 929,
whoever -
(D) willfully violates any other provision of this chapter,
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than five
years, or both.

Claude Clay
July 21, 2009, 10:50 PM
i like to reload; especially working up a load in something unusual or 'difficult'

i like the term strategic reload.

sell it---NO. there is a lot of fun to be had without profit being a motive.
there is a friday group that meets informally and we have a lot of toys to play with.
shooting, strategy, informal IDPA, SASS, pins whatever we all bring we play together.
average byproduct of our 5 or 6 hours is 25 or so pounds of reusable brass [ & 2 mt bricks of 22lr]--milsurp is scaped


to replensih for the next week a list of stuff that's needed is posted and if material appears than product gets made.
and lots of fun gets had. this group is growing and all are learning to reload and all know the risks involved. one dude had a box of 'junk'' from which we had working a 1871 10.4 x 38 Vitalli (sp)



for fun, not for profit

banjoman2255
July 21, 2009, 11:20 PM
thanks for the input

1858rem
July 22, 2009, 12:15 AM
so say you sell off one caliber gun that you will no longer reload for, is it legal to sell the remaining reloads as "components only" for what it cost you to make them?

....and are you still liable if someone does end up shooting the reloads sold as components only?

Deavis
July 22, 2009, 12:28 AM
so say you sell off one caliber gun that you will no longer reload for, is it legal to sell the remaining reloads as "components only" for what it cost you to make them?

except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to
engage in the business of importing or manufacturing
ammunition

The law is very specific. You cannot be engaged in the business of manufacturing ammunition without a license. The minutiae can be argued but the general concept is clear, if you are loading ammunition with the intent to sell it and you don't have an FFL, then there is a possibility that you could be charged with breaking the law if you are caught. Your question is similar to the age old, "Can I sell guns without a license?" The answer is the same; yes but you cannot be involved in the BUSINESS of selling guns. The ATF has plenty of FAQs available, go read them.

bhawkeye
July 22, 2009, 01:45 AM
No - but besides being illegal, you would be opening yourself up to significant liability claims if someone has issues with your ammo (KB, used in a crime, etc.). Don't do it without the proper licenses and insurance. Better yet, just don't do it unless you really want to make it your main business.

fourdollarbill
July 26, 2009, 10:17 AM
so say you sell off one caliber gun that you will no longer reload for, is it legal to sell the remaining reloads as "components only" for what it cost you to make them?

....and are you still liable if someone does end up shooting the reloads sold as components only?

Yes you can sell off your remaining reloads for what cost you have in them.


(22) The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and
profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of
firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary
gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating
a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit
shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and
repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal
purposes or terrorism. For purposes of this paragraph, the term
"terrorism" means activity, directed against United States persons,
which -


As far as the liable part... your liable for the tree you planted 30 years ago on property you sold 20 years ago and that tree fell on neighbors friends car during a wind storm. No matter what it is someone will sue you regardless of what the law says.:confused:

buck460XVR
July 26, 2009, 11:55 AM
I watch the local paper for auctions and garage sales lookin' for deals on reloading equipment and components. They're good places to pick up old ammo boxes for my collection also. One of the last garage sales I went to that claimed to have reloading components, was actually a guy with a card table full of reloads priced at about the same as new factory. Claimed he sold out everytime he and his wife had a sale. Needless to say I didn't buy any. Wasn't a week later I saw their add in the paper again.

JohnNguyen
July 27, 2009, 01:12 AM
Why on EARTH would you sell reloads to someone? You're questioning is legally evasive and unethical!

The fact that you care about being LIABLE makes you completely in the wrong, how about caring if you kill someone for your NEGLIGENCE.

If you doubt your ammo even a FRACTION of a percent, you owe it to that person to TELL them, or don't sell it. SIMPLE!

Whenever you purchase a product, you dont need a guarantee, rather you accept it as FACT that the item you purchased is fully, and faithfully what it claims to be. You don't buy filets of steak from the butcher, and ever question it being tofu, do you?

So yeah, are you liable for shoddy ammo? Yes, anyone telling your different IS, wrong!

lgbloader
July 27, 2009, 01:13 AM
Well... there you have it.

LGB

evan price
July 27, 2009, 07:19 AM
You need an FFL 06 which is $30 for three years, and registration with the State Department as a "Producer of war material" which costs $2250 last time I looked. Same to make lead boolits for sale.
Plus a ridiculous liability insurance policy, and check your local zoning to be sure that sort of business is allowed.
Or you could just do it on the sly, and hope to not get caught or sued, the gamble here is ten years in Federal Pound-You-In-The-Azz Prison and losing all your assets.

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