[Waitone]

Interesting observation
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http://www.richardpoe.com/column.cgi?story=130

The Cop Revolt Against Gun Control

By Richard Poe

October 23, 2003

AN ALL-OUT REVOLT against gun control may be brewing among rank-and-file police officers.

In my last column, "Gray Davis’ Cop-Killing Gun Law," I revealed that anti-gun zealots such as Sarah Brady and Ted Kennedy have found a new enemy: cops. No longer content to disarm ordinary citizens, gun prohibitionists now want to strip off-duty and retired police of the right to keep and bear arms.

Reader reaction to my column was mixed. Virtually every correspondent favored gun rights, but many expressed disdain for the rights of police.

"Maybe when their CCW [Concealed Carry Weapon] rights are stripped away they will look more favorably on ALL of us being allowed to carry," grumped one reader on the FreeRepublic.com message board. "Police officers should not get special rights."

"Hear Hear! Screw the cops… let them see how it feels!" responded another.

"[I] find it hard to feel too sorry for the cops," opined a third reader by e-mail. "…Let them taste some of what we supposedly free Americans have been dealing with. If I can't carry across state lines or into a government building, why the hell should a cop be able to?"

The resentment these readers express is understandable. Police spokesmen often publicly applaud gun crackdowns. But police brass in big cities are not free to speak their minds. They get their marching orders from City Hall. If they want to keep their jobs, they must toe the party line. Often that means pretending to support gun control, when in fact they oppose it.

During a 1990 crime wave in New York City, an ex-cop named Stephen D’Andrilli suggested on a TV talk show that the city issue one million permits to carry handguns. Host Dick Oliver asked then-New York Governor Mario Cuomo to respond. Cuomo snapped, "Why don’t you ask the cops what they think of everybody packing guns?"

Oliver replied that a Mr. Byrne, then head of the Police Benevolent Association, had said of D’Andrilli’s plan, "It’s a good idea."

"Well, somebody better talk to Mr. Byrne, straighten him out," said the governor.

Many high-ranking police have been "straightened out" behind the scenes just as Governor Cuomo prescribed.

"The Clinton Administration was particularly successful at enlisting police support for gun control," notes the Web site of the Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) a national anti-crime organization of law enforcement professionals, crime victims and concerned citizens, based in Falls Church, VA.

"[The Clinton White House] funneled millions of your tax dollars in political payoffs, disguised as `research’ into the pockets of national law enforcement organizations…," states an online article published by the LEAA. "…In one year during the Clinton Administration, the Police Executive Research Forum, the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the National Sheriffs Association and the Police Foundation collectively hauled in $4.4 million in Justice Department grants. …[P]olice groups that scurried to do Clinton's bidding happen to be the same ones that were awarded the lucrative federal grants."

The same LEAA article notes that many police officers were literally ordered to support the Brady Bill and the 1994 "Assault Weapons" Ban. "In some outrageous cases, police officers who actually opposed the legislation were forced by their superiors to appear in staged photographs as if they were solidly behind gun control!" charges the LEAA.

Despite all the payoffs and political arm-twisting, when the National Association of Chiefs of Police conducted a mail survey of 15,000 sheriffs and police chiefs in 1996, 93 percent said they approved of law-abiding citizens arming themselves for self-defense.

More and more pro-gun cops are working at the grassroots level in support of citizen gun rights.

Shortly after the 9-11 attacks, Sheriff John Raichl of Clatsop County, Oregon proposed recruiting armed citizens to guard docks, bridges, reservoirs, power stations, gas lines and other potential terrorist targets. Governor John Kitzhaber shot down Raichl’s plan.

Kennesaw, Georgia and Virgin, Utah passed laws requiring every household to own at least one gun. "Hundreds of towns and cities are passing or considering similar ordinances," claims VirginUtah.com, a Web site which promotes the town’s unusual gun laws.

Meanwhile, Sarah Brady and Ted Kennedy continue antagonizing police by opposing Senate bill 253 – a law that would permit active and retired cops to carry concealed weapons anywhere in the USA, without restriction.

Gun-ban activists have made a fatal error by targeting police. They have laid the groundwork for a grassroots alliance of gun owners and lawmen – a coalition that could well tip the scales in favor of our beleaguered Second Amendment.

[Gordon Fink]

Police spokesmen often publicly applaud gun crackdowns. But police brass in big cities are not free to speak their minds. They get their marching orders from City Hall. If they want to keep their jobs, they must toe the party line. Often that means pretending to support gun control, when in fact they oppose it.

Resign!

Though not a cop, I too am a public servant sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution. If I am ever ordered to violate that oath, I will refuse and, if necessary, resign. There are always other jobs.

~G. Fink

[4v50 Gary]

The article is right on the mark. A lot of police administrators receive their marching orders from the politcians and have to spew party live to preserve their jobs. The majority of rank and file are believers in the Second Amendment (of course, there's always a few ignorant minority that believe as politicians). There was a sergeant who got pressured out of San Jose PD when he spoke out against then Chief McNamara (since retired and in some think-tank). Said sergeant went on to be a major player in the LEAA.

[rock jock]

Resign!
And what would this accomplish for a true pro-RKBA LEO? They will be replaced by someone who instead of trying to work behind the scenes to change policy will be an enthusiastic anti-gun supporter. Better to work within the system and strike at the opportune moment.

[buzz_knox]

And what would this accomplish for a true pro-RKBA LEO? They will be replaced by someone who instead of trying to work behind the scenes to change policy will be an enthusiastic anti-gun supporter. Better to work within the system and strike at the opportune moment.

I have mixed feelings about that. While it makes some sense to have people in the system who believe in the Constitution and support us, those people would be responsible for violating the Constitution on a near-daily basis until the time is right.

[critter]

Looks like another group has finally seen the real agenda with the liberal ban-all-guns crowd! Makes a difference 'whose ox is being gored' doesn't it!

[Jonesy9]

I love the objectivity of that article. the cops I know are all for gun control and they're all conservatives. They don't want the guns on the street. maybe rural cops feel differently.

I'm not familiar with Bill 253 but why should retired and active duty police get special treatment. We should all be able to get unrestricted nationwide permits.

[TheeBadOne]

One thing to keep in mind is that cops are people too. They run the gambit from enthusiast to gun hater. I suspect they are absolutly no different than the population, one end for gun control, one end for gun freedom, and the majority stuck in the middle undecided. Peoples actions/conduct (statements) will decide which way the middle people go, up or down, just like the general public. The Mouth Peices for departments are not representative of cops in general.

[DMK]

anti-gun zealots such as Sarah Brady and Ted Kennedy have found a new enemy: cops. No longer content to disarm ordinary citizens, gun prohibitionists now want to strip off-duty and retired police of the right to keep and bear arms. Boy was that ever political suicide.:evil:

I hate to see the average cop on the street getting put in a political cross fire, but on the other hand something like this could go a long way to discredit anti-gun groups and show that their agendas have nothing to do with safety and security.

One of the major "feel good" points the antis had was that police were behind them. If they go after off-duty police officers carrying, they will lose a lot of credibility and we will gain powerfull allies.

The liberals drove a railroad spike between citizens and police in the late 60s then attacked each separately. It's time to start mending some of that distrust. We need to stop griping about special priviliges and start standing together against common enemies.

[Gordon Fink]

However, the anti-RKBA folks aren’t taking anything away from cops. They are opposed to granting them (or anyone else) additional carry privileges.

~G. Fink

[TheeBadOne]

http://www.glocktalk.com/images/smilies/goodpost.gif

[semf]

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
The American translation "What goes around comes around". I think it applies here.
Resign!
There is more to being a cop than supporting RKBA laws. I'm sure there were some officers who felt strongly enough about the issue to resign. But if every cop or civil servant resigned because of one issue or another, such as abortion, religious or drug laws, we would have nobody in public service.

[Black Snowman]

I'm with semf and Rock Jock. I'd rather see them stay on the beat. Laws are only as strong as the initial enforment. Most justice is handed out by the beat cop not the courts. It's their initial choice as to charge someone. If you have a pro self-defence cop on the beat who catches someone with a CCW protecting themselves they're much more likely to "convieniently forget" it was concealled and that person will never have to see a day in court.

This was an excellent article which I'm going to pass around to every fence-sitter I can find.

[DMK]

However, the anti-RKBA folks aren’t taking anything away from cops. They are opposed to granting them (or anyone else) additional carry privileges. Mr. Fink, with all due respect, you've been living under the totalitarian Kali regime too long. The right to carry arms and defend one's self are inalienable rights, not privileges. The gun grabbers have long been infringing the rights of citizens, and now they are infringing the rights of the citizens who work as peace officers.

[Keith]

There was thread just a week or two ago that mirrored the points in the article above.
A cop started a thread asking us to support federal CCW for off duty and retired cops, and the response was almost entirely negative!

Cops are citizens too, and when they stop thinking in terms of "us" and "everyone else" they will be great allies. The average gun owner has no patience with "special rights" for cops.

Keith

[Gordon Fink]

DMK, I agree with you, but telling that to the cop who arrests me for “illegally” carrying a firearm probably won’t help very much. :(

~G. Fink

[DMK]

telling that to the cop who arrests me for “illegally” carrying a firearm probably won’t help very much True, but you can't blame the man with the badge when the guy writing the laws in an idiot.

[Jack T.]

Just following orders?

[Gordon Fink]

And the guys writing the laws have made owning and carrying firearms into a privilege in most states.

For those criticizing my suggestion to resign, please note that I qualified it with an “if necessary.” A “pro-RKBA” cop, administrator, or lawmaker who enforces and perpetuates gun control is still enforcing and perpetuating gun control. This is called collaboration with the enemy.

~G. Fink

[geekWithA.45]

What our brethren in blue need is an escape clause, similiar to the "don't obey an illegal order" escape clause that our military guys have.

Examples:

Insane commander: "Kill all those obviously unarmed peasants harvesting their fields, and sow the fields with salt!"

Lowliest private: "No, sir, I refuse sir, your order is illegal sir."



Insane Politician: "Remove that man speaking against my sensible gun law stance from his soapbox, search him, and if he has a sidearm, confiscate it and book him!"

Policeman: "Sir, I refuse. Your order violates the first, second, and fourth amendments"

[Quartus]

Resign!

Though not a cop, I too am a public servant sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution. If I am ever ordered to violate that oath, I will refuse and, if necessary, resign. There are always other jobs.



Only a good idea if you don't go quietly. Hold a press conference, tell everyone about the sleazy pressure brought on you. And then dare the pukes to fire you.

Make waves. Shine the light on the cockroaches. Don't let them pull this off quietly.

[Delmar]

Never been a peace officer, but it seems most PO's have quite a bit of lattitude, at least while the boss ain't watching.
Working a job which requires judgement calls every day and being responsible and in some cases liable for their decision would make most people very wary, I would think.

[DMK]

What our brethren in blue need is an escape clause, similiar to the "don't obey an illegal order" escape clause that our military guys have. That sounds all utiopian and stuff, but in reality it is the job of all citizens to fight unconstitutional, unethical and immoral laws. Unfortunately, few do their job.

We are supposed to do this in the ways outlined by the creators of our constitution: Vote for representiatives that agree with your views, communicate your views to your elected officials, lobby and/or support orgs that will lobby your views (ie. NRA, GOA, JFPO, etc), organized peaceful protest and failing all that resort to the most expensive and risky method, civil disobedience.

We just can't rely on nice police officers to look the other way when we break laws that aren't appropriate. A) They don't all agree with us and B) why should they risk their careers when many Americans are too darn complacent to do their own civic duty?

We always talk about self sufficiency and taking care of ourselves here, but yet want some cop to stick his neck on the line to protect us from bad gun laws.

[mainmech48]

Where I live, we are fortunate in having the vast majority of both "street" officers and administrators as strong supporters of civilian CCW.

The best part is that there are those among them who've demonstrated the strength of their convictions by working long hours of their own time to put together a working program to make first-rate professional training locally available to qualified civilians.

In the past year Basic, Intermediate and Advanced programs from Yavapai and Gunsite have been held at our county's LEA range. They were advertised in the local newspaper(s) and offered to any and all civilians who could produce the prerequisite documentation of a valid Personal Protection handgun permit (and certificates of previous training, where applicable) on a "first come, first served" basis.

While the number of spaces is limited, and it's not inexpensive, it is HERE and a whole lot more practical and affordable than a round-trip to Arizona plus food, transportation and lodging for three days to a week for us working stiffs.

The officers who make these possible volunteer their own time and services as ROs and Adjunct Instructors. They are not compensated by their agencies, nor excused from their regular duties in order to do so.

What if, instead of taking positive action on their principles in the face of organized political and bureaucratic opposition to demonstrate their truth and validity, they'd simply resigned?

To my mind, men who demonstrate this level of commitment and resolve in the defense of one of their principles can be counted upon to defend their others with equal tenacity. For some, "To Serve and Protect" isn't a motto, it's a way of living.

[sw442642]

Most of us meet gun friendly cops as we tend to live in a gun friendly social environment or area. I am convinced that big city cops are not that gun friendly. Those are the ones that dominate the discussion.

I will opine that it is fairly racist. They work in cities with lots of minorities who use guns for crime. They cannot conceive of citizens defending themselves. The law abiding urban citizen is probably not gun savy and a "sheeple." Certainly, when I live in a large urban area, guns were rare.

I also think that most LEOS in such environments regard any guns as a threat. It is the urban departments that do the talking. The officers are not really civil liberatrians in any sense.

I also don't buy that the cop supports gun rights but won't say anything. They won't vote out their union rep. etc. Cops are certainly vocal and picket and march, etc. when one of them is charged with brutality charge or they want a raise. They are not vocal on RKBA as it isn't really important to them.

ProRKBA cops were pro RKBA people first.

For your information:

Police chiefs: Retain assault-weapons ban

Posted 10/23/2003 from Philly.com printer friendly version

"The chiefs, who also included Harold Hurtt of Phoenix, Richard Pennington of Atlanta, and Alex Fagan of San Francisco, spoke in front of a table laden with examples of assault weapons, including 'street sweepers,' 12-gauge shotguns with large-drum clips that can spray 12 shots as fast as the trigger can be pulled.

'The idea that anybody in this country that would advocate allowing these types of weapons onto the streets of America is insanity,' Bratton said. As recently as Saturday night, he said, two of his officers on a prowler call were assaulted by a weapon 'very similar to what you see in front of you.' [Editor's note: I guess he didn't realize that the Street Sweeper is classified as a DD, and is still legal to own with the proper paperwork--it's not even classed as an 'assault weapon'.]
Richard Aborn, former president of Handgun Control Inc., opened the program and introduced the speakers. While speaking at the end of the presentation, Aborn caused some in the audience, including police officers, to stare wide-eyed at him as he pointed - with his finger on the trigger - a semiautomatic pistol fitted with a large clip around the room.

'I assume these weapons have been checked?' he asked a Philadelphia police captain. He was told they had been.

When later asked by a reporter about his actions, he apologized.

'I recognize that I should not have pointed that gun toward anyone because it does violate gun safety,' Aborn said. 'And the moment I realized I'd done it, I stopped, pointed the gun up to the ceiling, and said to everybody in the room I shouldn't have done it."

You can read the complete story at:
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/7079405.htm

[Sarge]

There were a hell of a lot of us 25 years ago who supported RKBA. This was in the days when the fuzz was largely comprosed of ex-mil folks, hunters and others to whom the gun was, and always will be, a way of life.

Then the hiring standards changed and we started getting indundated with college kids who hadn't really ever done a damn thing but have mommy & daddy pay for their brainwashing by liberal academia. Their professors were liberal thinkers, and usually staunchly anti-gun. This is not a blanket condemnation of anyone with an education- far from it. It is simply an insider's look at the defining moment in what the police have become.

But some of us haven't gone with the flow, and remain your allies in freedom- much to the discomort of the IACP types. Be thankful there are a few of us still left, and those of you with children had better work extra hard to teach them that "gun" is not a dirty word. I don't mind seeing my candle burn short, but I'd like to think that there will be somebody to fill my boots when I'm gone.

[Gordon Fink]

Only a good idea if you don’t go quietly. Hold a press conference, tell everyone about the sleazy pressure brought on you. And then dare the pukes to fire you.

Make waves. Shine the light on the cockroaches. Don’t let them pull this off quietly.

Agreed!

And pro-RKBA police chiefs, police commissioners, etc. are in the perfect position to do just this. Why don’t they?

~G. Fink

[TheeBadOne]

Some do, but what interest does the media have in that..... :scrutiny:

[Don Galt]

"But if every cop or civil servant resigned because of one issue or another, such as abortion, religious or drug laws, we would have nobody in public service."

You say that like its a bad thing!

Every service provided by the government is provided at higher cost and lower quality than if such service were provided by the private sector.

People complain about the post office, but why do they never notice that the post office was not always a US federal monopoly? There were dozens if not hundreds of effective postal services before congress put them out of business.

People just assume that if the government didn't do it, it wouldnt' get done.

Actually the opposite is true-- teh government insures its done poorly ,and undermines the possibilty the private organizations can do it well.

And if the private organizations did it, we'd get better service at lower cost. Something you see whenever there is a free market.

UPS and Fedex compete. They both do a better job because they compete.

[Don Galt]

"That sounds all utiopian and stuff, but in reality it is the job of all citizens to fight unconstitutional, unethical and immoral laws. Unfortunately, few do their job."

And those that do, get almost no support in the gun culture.

Anyone who stands up to people who are being unconstitutional, eventually is met by cops.

And what do people in the gun culture do? Take the cops side. Note Rick Stanley.

There's a disconnect here between supporting the constitution but not supporting those who take it seriously.

For instance, the drug war is unconsititutional... but you see someone get busted for drugs and what do those in the gun culture do? They cheer the violation of the constitution.

[semf]

Just following orders? With all due respect (and I mean that) equating the murder of millions of people because of their religion/race (whichever you choose to call it) with arresting someone who knowingly violates a law (no matter how unconstitutional) is an extreme stretch.

Does an officer have the right to ignore a crime committed in front of him, just because he dosen't agree with it. Isn't that the mentality that allowed the Klan to flourish.
Should an anti abortion cop look the other way if he saw Rudolf, how many Black, Spanish, Catholic, Jewish, or just generally honorable men and women have had to protect Klan rallies.
As far as I know, and I probably am wrong Police officers are sworn to uphold the laws of their community, lawmakers are sworn to protect the constitution.
My brother in law is a cop, and the son of immigants, One time he was investigating a crime and had to question a Hispanic witness, because he dosn't speak his native language he had to take an interpreter. Because of this the witness was araid of him and blurted out that he was illegal. BIL told him (thru interpreter) not to say that again.Fear does stupid things to people and he said it 2 or 3 more times. (" I don't want trouble I'm illegal")
BIL ended up arresting the man. He had to do alot of soul searching that night, I imagine cops do alot of soul searching. It was his duty that he gave his word that he would do in exchange for the financial security for his family. At the end of the day your word and your honour are all you have.

[Watchman]

One of the beautiflu things about police work is the ability to use "officer discretion" to uphold the law.

The key to officer discretion and using it properly is education.

For instance, a mayor of a local town issues a decree that ALL weapons found during a routine traffic stop in vehicles within city limits are to be confinscated.

An uneducated cop that know slim to nothing about the US Constitution and the bill of rights might have no qualmes in enforcing such an "order" by the mayor.

However, a cop with a clue realizes that such a decree is contray to the Constitution of the US and understands that he has no real authority to obey an order that clearly volates the law of the land. IF he has balls the size of a pissant, he also knows that in a court of law, an illegal order would be struck down.

Unfortunatley, due to the great liberal brainswashing campaign being fronted in the educational systems of today, many cops arent aware of this. Therefore it is imperative that the older vets teach these young punks the way that it is.

The ONLY real check that we have against an oppresive government are the law enforcers that REFUSE to "enforce" bogus laws. Talk about that the real jackbooted thugs will lay awake at night wondering how to get away with murder.

It is absolutey nessecary that ALL citizens not only be armed, but be proficient with weapons. By being proficient, I mean not only the skills to use them effectivley, but also the WILL to use them when time are tough. ANY politician, cop, laywer, judge, Congressmen, Senator or President, ought to be suspect if he/he opposes private ownership of weapons for any reason.

[BluesBear]

But if every cop or civil servant resigned because of one issue or another, such as abortion, religious or drug laws, we would have nobody in public service

SURE WE WOULD!

There will ALWAYS be SOMEBODY willing to take the job. Just like there will always be somebody willing to take YOUR job.

And the problem is that many of those people will be willing to do it for less money. :what:


Lets face it everytime there is a new recuit class formed anywhere, there are a lot more applicants than acceptees. Those who can't make the grade now would be more than happy to take the job when all of the qualified people are gone.

Do you really want officers with lower standards on the street?

[semf]

BluesBear
I stand corrected. Good point

[greyhound]

Most of us meet gun friendly cops as we tend to live in a gun friendly social environment or area.

I dread the day that I get pulled over for speeding or whatever coming back from the range. I keep the gun unloaded and with a padlock in the trunk, the ammo up front in another padlocked bag, and on the way back I keep the receipt from the range and a printed copy of the tranport law handy.

Yet I still think they'll probably take my guns, most likely for good.

No one can convince me that the rank and file Maryland State Police isn't anti-gun.

I'm real careful of my driving to/from the range, believe me. And I find myself thinking how ridiculous it is I have to be like that.

[Sarge]

"But if every cop or civil servant resigned because of one issue or another, such as abortion, religious or drug laws, we would have nobody in public service."


No, you'd have people in public service- but they'd all be automatons with no independent sense of right or wrong.

[WAGCEVP]

Resign!


please don't resign............. we NEED GOOD cops to stay on the force and teach/ train the younger cops, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaasssseeee!

[Zundfolge]

Resign
Thats the LAST THING a pro-RKBA officer should do.

I lived in Wichita Kansas for my first 33 years, which like much of the rest of the state of Kansas its run by liberal Republicans who support gun control.

I was robbed at gunpoint several years ago and I was understandably angry, and I told the officer who responded that "Dammit! this makes me want to carry a gun!", his response; "You should." (keep in mind that open carry isn't even legal there).

There are MANY pro CCW and pro RKBA cops on the Wichita Police Department, and by God if I still lived there and I got pulled over for speeding or something I want one of them pulling me over and looking the other way when they find I was carrying.

I once got out of a speeding ticket because there was a copy of Rush Limbaugh's first book laying in the back seat or my car ... the officer on the passenger side of the car saw it and said to the other "this kid can't be too bad" and shined his flashlight on the book, the other officer grinned and gave me back my license and told me to be careful in the future. So police do selectivly enforce the law, and I would prefer to have pro RKBA officers out there selectivly enforcing gun laws.

[LawDog]

Resign!

Well, goodness. I guess I oughta go toss my badge on the Sheriff's desk then.

Of course, my replacement, more than likely, is going to be one of those liberal California jackasses who are invading Texas by the friggin' busload, but hey -- at least I'm making a moral statement, right?

:banghead:

LawDog

[MessedUpMike]

No way in hell would I resign. To my understanding my oath to uphold and defend meant just that. Uphold means stop or resist laws tha run contrary to th constitution as much as practically possible. Defend means do everything in my power to unseat those above me that are trying to support such laws. If the FOP was as powerful as the IAFF then unseating some of these idiots wouldn't be anything more than an exercise in patience.
Also when I was in CJT all of my instructors where ex-cops. Including a former FOP local pres. and an MPD precient Cmdr. Not much room for liberals in that crowd

[jato]

Of course, my replacement, more than likely, is going to be one of those liberal California jackasses who are invading Texas by the friggin' busload, but hey -- at least I'm making a moral statement, right?

The 2 things that bother me the most are Kalifornia gun laws and domestic violence laws.

About half of the deputies at my station are pro gun. Why do you want them to resign? They are the ones who tend to uphold the Bill of Rights!

I have friends who carry without a permit. So what! I say, let them fire me for upholding the 2nd amendment!

And here is some food for thought for those of you who think we have it so good... I have a friend of a friend in the California State Department of Justice. Most of the criminal cases they are investigating in the firearm realm are against PEACE OFFICERS who didn't register their assault weapons! One day you’re a law-abiding citizen the next day you’re a felon! All because your rifle has a bayo lug! Enough is enough!


Resign! HELL NO! WE NEED TO MULTIPLY! :fire:

[Don Galt]

Well, I don't think you can be a cop and not compromise your principles... look at the drug war-- blatently unconstitutional, and how hard is it to find a cop that recognizes that fact?

Plus, you add a lot of money from asset forfieture and they start to see their paycheck (or is it just fast cars? Around here I've seen them labled as "drug siezure vehicle" which had been repainted and lights put on)... coming from the drug war and it gets kinda hard to stand on the constitution when the politicos and %90 of the cops on the force are not going to tolerate your opinion.

Once your police are compromised in such a way... its a slippery slope, slow as it may be, to full scale corruption, IMNSHO. We're well on the way.

I think they should resign and find a less corrupt (in drug law enforcement or gun law enforcement) agency to work for.

Or, better yet, become lawyers and fight for the constitution directly.

But then, I'm not a lawyer so don't take this as condemnation.

[Stevie-Ray]

However, a cop with a clue realizes that such a decree is contray to the Constitution of the US and understands that he has no real authority to obey an order that clearly volates the law of the land. IF he has balls the size of a pissant, he also knows that in a court of law, an illegal order would be struck down.

The ONLY real check that we have against an oppresive government are the law enforcers that REFUSE to "enforce" bogus laws. Talk about that the real jackbooted thugs will lay awake at night wondering how to get away with murder.

It is absolutey nessecary that ALL citizens not only be armed, but be proficient with weapons. By being proficient, I mean not only the skills to use them effectivley, but also the WILL to use them when time are tough. ANY politician, cop, laywer, judge, Congressmen, Senator or President, ought to be suspect if he/he opposes private ownership of weapons for any reason Hear, hear! I completely agree. The only prayer we have is for cops to be able to look the other way when their trained eyes see fundamental rights being exercised, rather than criminal activity according to their marching orders. Will you really give up so easily when the cop says during confiscation: "Sorry pal, I'm the NRA too, but I still have a job to do."