OK my Colorado Brothers and Sisters. I've been trying to do some research on whether or not there are casinos, hotels, etc... in Blackhawk that have "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" postings. Same with DIA airport. I tried calling the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, but they seem like morons. They seem correct about blackhawk; although their answer was basically; "You can carry there, unless the restaurant, casino, hotel, etc... had a No Firearms Allowed sign posted". I said I knew that, but that's the same rule as if ANY private business or property had a sign. So at least there apparently doesn't seem to be any city, county, or state ordinance that says I can't carry in Blackhawk and the casinos/hotels. My question to those of you who spend more time in the Blackhawk area than I do is; do you know of any places in Blackhawk that have some signs/restrictions posted??? Or do you know of a site that monitors such things????
The other question was about Denver International Airport. Of course, CBI was totally useless. The first think out of the lady's mouth was; "That's an airport, you definitely can't carry a gun there. Everyone knows that". Of course I had to remind her that just because it was an airport didn't mean that. I know that any place that there is a security station and/or metal detectors and such; that no weapons are allowed beyond that point into the sterile/restricted areas. But my interest was the common areas of the airport, such as picking up friends and relatives and getting their baggage. Dropping people off at the airport. When I pressed CBI to quote me some sort of ordinance or law, she said hold on. She wanted to check with her co-workers. She came back and said they didn't know of an actual statute, but they are sure that there's no way you can carry a weapon into an airport. She suggested I check with TSA. I informed her that TSA was responsible for the actual TRANSPORTATION portion of the airport; hence the name: "Transportation Security Administration". Well, I called them, and they said that they were only concerned with once you came into the secured areas and was destined to board a plane. And that obviously, they do not allow weapons. I agreed. As for the airport itself, the gentleman said that each airport in property of the city, county, or state and whatever the laws there are is what matters. Yup, I agree.
Unfortunately, that is the problem. According to the "COLORADO" concealed carry information, as long as I am not entering the secure/sterile/restricted area of the airport (The part where ticketed customers go through security); then it is OK to conceal carry. Some other people say that DIA is considered part of Denver, and that it's not allowed to carry in the airport at all. "Even though no one has shown me anything in writing that says I can't". It's very confusing. I drive to DIA from Wyoming quite often to drop off and pick up friends, relative, associates, etc... I never like the idea of leaving my gun in my car. I've had cars broken into; and I can deal with a stereo being stolen. A gun, I couldn't live with myself. So, do any of you good Colorado folks know about any restrictions in Blackhawk or any detailed information about DIA? thanks a lot.
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July 22, 2009, 02:24 AM
CCW in the non-sterile portions of the airport is A-OK. Just read the sign...
something to the effect of "carrying a loaded weapon into this building is prohibited, except as authorized".
You valid permit is your authorization.
Colorado CCW statues do not place the airport as being on the list of off-limit public places.
July 22, 2009, 03:23 AM
except as authorizedYou valid permit is your authorizationPersonally I don't think the concealed firearm permit is construed as 'Authorization' but you can be the guinea pig and test that in the Supreme Court if you want.
Christcorp, buddy. Here is my own personal opinion:
Why not get a safe so you can lock your firearm securely in the car? I got an inexpensive steel safe meant for documents (Kmart or Walmart or one of those stores, I don't remember which, I think it was $36) and I bolted it into the trunk. Handgun gets locked in the safe. Done deal. That's probably a LOT better than being the guinea pig and testing the airport law. There are designated guinea pigs out there, backed by the right law firms doing their diligent best to obtain clarity in the law. I love those guys, they are heroes. But you have to decide whether you are the right hero to challenge the law, or leave that to those who are better equipped. Discretion is the better part of valor. Of course, someone will come along and tell us that we have no guts and maybe we're unAmerican if we don't get arrested and challenge an unjust law at every step, while they sit at a keyboard and goad us to be the guinea pigs. They don't impress me. That's just my opinion.
July 22, 2009, 09:11 AM
Definitely appreciate both of your opinions. .455; I have been under the opinion that you mentioned. I didn't see anything in the statutes, so I assumed that I fell under the "Authorized" category. But I've also had many take the position that "Ants" is taking, that "authorization" constitutes law enforcement, security personnel, etc...
ants; buying a safe/lockbox for the car isn't really practical for me. I'm not trying to brag or even appear that way, but between me and my wife, I have 5 cars and a motorcycle. And I drive any of those 5 vehicles when I go to the airport. So I'd have to buy at least 5 lockboxes. Plus, 2 of the vehicles don't have trunks (SUV style); so I'd have to mount something under the seat or whatever. And personally, I just don't feel comfortable with the possibility of a gun being stolen and possibly used against someone. I live in Wyoming; which means that I don't recall in my entire life EVER seeing a "No Firearm" sign anyplace. So except for courthouse, police station, and the normal restrictions; I carry my handgun everyplace.
.455; was wondering if you happen to know anything about Blackhawk/Central City??? Do you know of any posted "No Firearms Allowed" signs on any of the casinos, hotels, restaurants, shops, etc... thanks...
July 22, 2009, 09:32 AM
I worked for the Isle when I first got to Colorado. I was in Management and They do not have any No Firearms signs that I ever saw. At the time, we never even discussed it, so it wasn't an issue at the time. And I have never seen a No Firearms sign at any of the others.
However. This was several years ago. Also, if they did happen to see a firearm, you would DEFINITELY be talking to security as well as the local Blackhawk cops. The other caveat is this. Surveillance is VERY good in a casino. They don't use those cheap cameras you see in convenience stores. These PTZ cameras can read the numbers on a dollar bill from 18 feet up. If they get suspicious of you, they can and most likely will follow you around with the cameras.
You can probably carry ina casino legally, but if seen, you will have some fun and may get escorted off property. If you have any other questions about casinos, let me know. I opened 4 casinos and worked at 6 in MIS.
July 22, 2009, 09:55 AM
I've carried in the casinos in Cripple Creek and no body said a thing, but they probably didn't know I was carrying. I saw no signs last time I was there as far as the casinos go. As for DIA. Don't try to go beyond the screening area. I've carried there as well. That being said, Denver seems to have their own set of rules about concealed carry. Someone else better suited that lives in that area might be able to help better than I can. I do carry up there, but it seems the rules are different due to city/county restrictions.
July 22, 2009, 11:21 AM
Thanks again for the responses. I've never had an issue at DIA; so I'll probably continue to carry there. Like I said, it's usually dropping someone off; and we might sit in the food court and have a cup of coffee or something prior to them leaving. Or it's picking them up, and going down to baggage pickup and then back out to the car. And being there's no metal detectors or security locations to go through, I will just continue doing as I do until I see something posted more specifically. The only statutes I've seen refer to the security/restricted/sterile areas of the airport. I.e. the part where "Ticketed" passengers go through security. So, I guess for now it's cool. And most of my carrying is ankle holsters. And being many of us wear boots, (At least in Wyoming where I live); seeing a concealed weapon is practically impossible.
As for Blackhawk and the casinos; I definitely feel safe in the actual casinos. But anyone who's been there knows, that there's a lot of walking and such in the blackhawk/central station area. There has definitely been a bit of crime in these areas. Mostly pick pocketing; con artists; etc... Physical crime isn't that common. Again; carrying on the ankle and wearing boots makes seeing the gun virtually impossible. (Basically, the gun is inside the boot). So, I'll just carry, and if I come across a casino/hotel/restaurant that happens to post a "No Firearms" sign; I'll simply respect their business decision and not patron their establishment. Thanks....
April 7, 2013, 03:55 PM
Well times have sure changed since this this threads last post. I called a few casinos in Black Hawk and they were absolutely unclear themselves. I talked to several different people in the security departments and most of them said they wouldn't allow conceal carry, but that it was not posted anywhere. One said only in the hotel area but not on the casino floor or restaurants. The fact is that the law in NOT clear cut. As law abiding citizens we need to know what is is legal not legal. How are we supposed to abide by the laws when the people enforcing them do not even know the laws. There is also the fact that you can not conceal carry into a "bar" but as we were taught in firearms training (not legal advice) a bar is considered a bar when 51% or greater income comes from alcohol sales. This would NOT include casinos by that definition. Very confusing indeed but the last thing we need is for any of us to be accused of carrying a concealed weapon illegally.
April 7, 2013, 05:09 PM
According to Matt (Security Supervisor) The LODGE Casino in Black Hawk Colorado, "all the casinos in Black Hawk / Central City are "Gun Free Zones" they just don't post it as to not alarm their patrons". (not accurate as I spoke with several other casinos and the policies vary)
Any private establishment has the rite to ask you to leave if they want to (for any reason) but they say they will call PD to let them "deal with you". Even when PD arrives they may in fact temporally disarm you until they establish the weapon is yours and legal to have but must by law release you and the weapon if no crime has been committed. And we as law abiding citizens shouldn't have to worry about that. It sounds like harassment to me. Either they should have to post a sign saying that "Only criminals are armed in here" or let us protect ourselves. In their defense, Security is not armed so I believe that is the appropriate way to handle a situation when a gun is discovered on the premises. Ideally if your weapon is properly concealed it will not ever be discovered. In the even of having to use your weapon to defend your life, I do believe that you would not be charged with illegally carrying a weapon because no law was broken only a policy. Policy is not law. End of life is final.
My advice, not legal advice, stay armed, always, STAY AWAY FROM THE LODGE CASINO. Where they WON'T protect you and your not allowed to protect yourself.
Define - "infringe"
April 7, 2013, 05:37 PM
Be careful of anywhere owned/operated by Denver city/county. This is an extensive area even to the mountains and ski resorts. 2 or 3 weeks ago I went with a grandson to the national arenacross at the Coliseum. There are no signs. I asked 2 different security (Denver LEOs moonlighting) about carry. Both told me exactly the same thing. Although no signs, screening, or wanding it is illegal to carry. You will be detained/arrested. You are expected to discover for yourself that anything operated by Denver is taboo. I tried to find this info on the net but was unsuccessful. Not sure about DIA, but I would guess it carries the same prohibitions. Given that it is legal to carry in your vehicle anywhere in Colo, even within your touch, reach, or grasp it may be prudent to secure in the vehicle. DIA itself is safe enough - they can monitor every move you make.
April 7, 2013, 05:44 PM
Just hide your gun and carry it. No law against it so don't worry. I've carried at casinos in Mississippi and I'm sure they would have asked me to leave but I conceal.
April 7, 2013, 05:55 PM
You may not open carry in Denver. You can check firearms at DIA. So by default you must be able to carry concealed outside of the secured areas of DIA. And as far as I know there are no additional restrictions on conceal carry in Denver other than it being a bigger PIA to get a CCL if you live in Denver (Which I don't, by design).
As far as Blackhawk, that place is run by pathological idiots and should be avoided. You can't have a "Gun Free Zone" that is also a "Sign Free Zone". If you must, go on up to Central City or down to Cripple Creek.
April 7, 2013, 06:26 PM
There is also the fact that you can not conceal carry into a "bar" but as we were taught in firearms training (not legal advice) a bar is considered a bar when 51% or greater income comes from alcohol sales.
If you are in Colorado, that training is absolutely WRONG. There are no restrictions on carrying in a "bar", 51% or no, makes no difference.
Carrying while intoxicated is against the law, carrying in a bar is not.
April 7, 2013, 07:33 PM
I thought Denver was a "home rule" city. Not sure exactly what that means and what has or has not been tested yet, but I got the impression they could exempt themselves from many state laws they didn't like. A state carry permit may not always work there, so I'd carefully check the Denver rules. Colorado seems to be OK for travel state wide, but open or concealed carry in Denver may be an issue.
From NRA-ILA website: The Colorado Supreme Court held that state laws that expressly preempted firearms regulation unconsitutionally infringed on Denver's home rule authority with respect to ordinance that address the open carrying of firearms and banning assault weapons and Saturday night specials. State v. City and County of Denver, 139 P.3d 635 (Colo. 2006).