how hot to load 30-30s


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Soundtrackzz
July 22, 2009, 02:29 AM
Hey guys. Ive been reading alot of articles over on leverguns.com. They basically all end up say that the major draw back of the 30-30 is that while the steel in the guns and the brass improve, the round itself isnt chambered for higher pressures. That the round hasnt changed the way its loaded since the 1940's. is there any truth to this?

thanks

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Remo-99
July 22, 2009, 05:02 AM
It's not just about modern materials used today against a hundred years ago, but also design comes into play. The shoulder on the 30-30 is very shallow, this is fine for ammo loaded to spec, but when ya start messing with much higher pressures a shallow shoulder allows brass to flow from the already thin case sides and causes all kinds of issues.

Other calibres of modern high pressure cases have a sharper shoulder and thicker case walls to avoid the issues. If you want modern ballistics from a 30cal levergun checkout the latest chamberings.

Personally I would not inclinded to go beyond listed max 30-30 data, but you are the one who will be holding the rifle when the hammer drops. So it's what you decide. ;)

243winxb
July 22, 2009, 07:06 AM
Saami pressure maximum is listed as 42,000 PSI today. Has this changed since 1940:confused: is what would answer you question. My guess,No. The firearms action type would have different safe working pressures. The lever on the low side, Thompson Center Contender on the higher. Using IMR 4895-150gr the 10" contender can be loaded to 1960fps. I would never put that loading in my 30 WCF. There is a big difference in the listed maximum using IMR 4895-150gr bullets, 33.5gr current Hodgdon, 31.0gr Old Lyman data. and 38.0gr old Speer data,< blow your gun up load IMO. Keep the load lite for the levers. The old M94 holds the title "Most dangerous gun ever made", accidental discharges. Be careful leaving the hammer down on that old 30 WCF. :uhoh::D http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_WIN9430WCF.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/WIN9430WCF.jpg)

The Bushmaster
July 22, 2009, 08:49 AM
Accidental discharges? Winchester .30 WCF? Sense when? I've been carrying this ol' jack handle for almost 50 years and have had only one "accidental" (read "negligent discharge") in all that time and that one was my fault...

One of the reasons that the round has stayed in the low pressure/velocity catigory is because there are a lot of OLD Winchesters still in service and they would not take too kindly to hopped up rounds...Besides...If the .30 WCF/.30-30 is used for up to 150 yard hunting it is next to perfect for those close in shots and having to carry it through heavy timber and brush up and down mountain sides...

freakshow10mm
July 22, 2009, 09:15 AM
I don't see any reason to hot rod any cartridge let alone the 30-30.

rklessdriver
July 22, 2009, 09:58 AM
I don't see any reason to hot rod any cartridge let alone the 30-30

Agree 100%.

A regular 30-30 with proper shot placement will take any game animal in North America. What is the advantage of risking destroying yourself and rifle by hot rodding one?
Will

ForneyRider
July 22, 2009, 11:18 AM
A custom 30-30 can be pushed to low 308 performance. But it was done in a bolt gun with a very experienced reloader/shooter. The case dimensions were changed to allow for more powder, e.g. the neck was moved forward.

Bench shooters will use 250/300 Savage brass for 308 Win from time to time as it is thinner and softer. Called a short 308.

I would never do this and never recommend it.

ants
July 22, 2009, 11:57 AM
Put the emphasis on safety. Do not exceed maximum.

Data is available from dozens of different reliable published sources for lever guns. When we examine the data carefully, we often find loads that don't exceed maximum pressure but surely seem to exceed the velocity of factory ammo. As long as you don't exceed published max, you may try those loads for your rifle. Start low and working upward. If the load remains accurate, you have a safe 'hot' load not exceeding max. If no accuracy is found, it's not worth it. Be sure to pay attention to your rifle; even without exceeding max load, if the action shows signs of distress after discharging a cartridge, stop right there and don't push it any further.

This is what reloading is all about. Find every safe published load you can find, and start working. It's all a matter of diligence and patience.

Kernel
July 22, 2009, 01:14 PM
Use .375 Winchester donor brass cuz it's got the thickest wall of any cartridge in this head size family. The flip side: use .38-55 brass since it's got the largest powder capacity due to it's thinner wall.

rcmodel
July 22, 2009, 01:16 PM
The old M94 holds the title "Most dangerous gun ever made", accidental discharges. Be careful leaving the hammer down on BS!

It is perfectly safe loaded on half-cock, or with the lever cracked open.

I imagine there have been more people killed or injured by Glock ND's & 12 ga single-shot shotguns then those in the entire history of the 94 Winchester.


As for pressure?
The 30-30 is defined by the guns it is chambered in.

If you put it in a single-shot or strong bolt-action, it could be loaded just as hot as any other caliber.

The fact is, both the Winchester & Marlin lever-guns are not as strong as single-shots or bolt-actions, and that is the limiting factor on pressure.
Both lock on the rear of the bolt, and both have relatively small barrel shanks and receiver threads.

When a lever-gun blows up, they always blow the front receiver ring and blow the barrel off.

rc

ranger335v
July 22, 2009, 01:23 PM
" how hot to load 30-30s "

Well, the only way I know to respond to this question is to suggest you move charges up .3 gr. at a time until a case ruptures and then back off a half grain. ??

Me, I'm gonna stick to the books. Not only is that safe, I know that adding a few extra FPS to a slow round/flat nose bullet will make absolutely no difference in the woods.

I know some people who go off half cocked. I suppose some of them could be considered dangerous but I don't think any of the applies to a 94/336.

SlamFire1
July 22, 2009, 05:40 PM
Hey guys. Ive been reading alot of articles over on leverguns.com. They basically all end up say that the major draw back of the 30-30 is that while the steel in the guns and the brass improve, the round itself isnt chambered for higher pressures. That the round hasnt changed the way its loaded since the 1940's. is there any truth to this?

I have not read these articles. A lot of rounds, like the 6.5 Swede or 8 mm Mauser, are loaded well below their potential because of all the old pre WWI rifles floating around.

While the materials in leveractions have certainly improved since 1894, the design is still a rear locking design. Which means it is a very springy design with a lot of bolt compressing.

The brass is the weak link in any design. In my opinion, a design is only strong in so far how it supports the brass. Rear locking actions don't support the brass very well.

So hot load it, and expect case head separations. In a front locker these have been pretty benign, but in a lever action, well I don't know.

Maybe you will have a gas release that bows the action. Maybe blows the gas tube off.

Maybe not.

Won't know until someone trys it. I never read a good explanation of what caused this 45-70 Marlin to bust. Maybe someone will hot load a 30-30, blow it all to pieces, and post the results.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/MarlinLeveractionblowupfulllength.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/Marlin45-70GuideRifleblowupreceiver.jpg

Kernel
July 22, 2009, 06:00 PM
SlamFire, far freaking out!! I bet that ruined somebody's entire day. A lesson to us all.

ants
July 22, 2009, 07:23 PM
I wonder how long it took to remove the hammer from his forehead?

ginny225
July 22, 2009, 08:07 PM
If you want to have some fun with your30-30 speer makes a 308 varminter 110 gr flat nose hollow point.don"t confuse this with thier regular pointed varminter the stock # is 1835 you can safely load with34 grains of reloader #7 at 2660 fps everyone gives me crap about my 'cowboy assault rifle' but i can acurately put out 7 rds as fast as they can miss with 20.Montana mike.

Gadzooks Mike
July 22, 2009, 10:50 PM
If you absolutely just gotta have a hot 30-30 - find someone selling a .303 Savage and then find some 190gr silver tips to go with it.

Clark
July 23, 2009, 01:37 AM
"Speer 12" 1994:
"Some bolt-action and single-shot rifles have been chambered for this cartridge. Reloaders can sue spritzer-type bullets in these rifles, but should keep the weight to 150 grains or less. Heavier spritzer bullets cannot be drive fast enough in the 30-30 to expand reliably. We are occasionally asked if the 30-30 can be loaded to higher velocities in a modern bolt action like the Remington model 788. The answer is NO! The 30-30 case is an old design with relatively thin walls. Attempting to load "hotter" would risk a dangerous case failure."

That is total BS.

The 270 is SAAMI registered at 65,000 psi max average pressure.

The 30-30 case is WAY stronger than the 270 case.

How do I know these things?
Co relating what the cross section of the case looks like with my overload experimental results.

Kind of like what they pay me to do in engineering.

Remo-99
July 23, 2009, 01:44 AM
The 270 is SAAMI registered at 65,000 psi max average pressure.

The 30-30 case is WAY stronger than the 270 case.

Sorry Clark, I must respetively disagree with you on that one.

R.W.Dale
July 23, 2009, 04:43 AM
BS!

It is perfectly safe loaded on half-cock, or with the lever cracked open.

I imagine there have been more people killed or injured by Glock ND's & 12 ga single-shot shotguns then those in the entire history of the 94 Winchester.

I disagree, Neither of the above firearms require the shooter to PULL THE TRIGGER on a LOADED chamber from a "HOT" condition to simply engage the safety. Round these parts amongst older hunters the older lever actions have earned a well deserved reputation as being very ND prone I here more firsthand reports of ND's with these than all other firearms combined , especially in cold weather with numb, wet or cold fingers or with youngsters.

In my opinon the Winchester or marlin is the absolutely WORST firearm to start a young inexperienced shooter on. the "half cock" safety mechanism is the epitome of careless Victorian era engineering

alsaqr
July 23, 2009, 05:15 AM
Lever action rifles have springy actions that allow the case to stretch excessively. Load a lever action .30-30 too hot and you will get case head separations. Load it really hot and you will have a kaboom. The problem is not in the .30-30 cartridge case. The problem is lever action guns in .30-30 caliber. The .30-30 case is used in some very hot .22 caliber wildcat cartridges.

Since about 1975 I have owned a Remington model 788 bolt action gun chambered for the .30-30 cartridge. I load that gun to low .308 velocities with no signs of high pressure or excessive case stretching.

bullseye308
July 23, 2009, 09:16 AM
It's really very simple. If you need something hotter, there are plenty of other calibers to use. Whatever you use, keep it within safe limits.

SlamFire1
July 23, 2009, 09:39 AM
I disagree, Neither of the above firearms require the shooter to PULL THE TRIGGER on a LOADED chamber from a "HOT" condition to simply engage the safety. Round these parts amongst older hunters the older lever actions have earned a well deserved reputation as being very ND prone I here more firsthand reports of ND's with these than all other firearms combined , especially in cold weather with numb, wet or cold fingers or with youngsters.

Had an accidental discharge with a Colt New Service. The weather was hot, the hammer serrations not rough, and the hammer slipped under my thumb while lowering the hammer from a fully cocked position. Round went harmlessly down range.

I can easily imagine a lever action doing the same thing, if you are in gloves, if your fingers are cold, if, if, if.....

As much as people don't like the Marlin crossbolt safety, putting the crossbolt safety on before lowering the hammer will prevent an accidental discharge.

The Bushmaster
July 23, 2009, 09:51 AM
krochus...Sounds more like careless handling procedures and poor maintenance rather then poor design. I do know that one must be extra careful lowering the hammer down to fired position and then back to half cock, but it has never been a problem with my 60 year old Mod 94 .30 WCF...Like I said...I have only had one "negligent discharge" and that one was my fault...I've owned the rifle for 48 years of it's 60 and use it as my favorite and primary hunting rifle...

freakshow10mm
July 23, 2009, 10:38 AM
Remo-99, Clark is right. His specialty is destructive testing. He has taken this experience in his career to apply it to firearms. If you want to know about case failures and pressures, etc, Clark is the guy to talk to. He has first hand experience. It isn't theoretical.

ants
July 23, 2009, 01:43 PM
If you buy ANYTHING designed in 1894, you better be prepared to accept it and learn to deal with it on its own terms.

In this world we have come to expect that all our products will protect us automatically, we only pick it up and use it with no special knowledge or effort. If that's your desire, buy a modern rifle with all the safety features built in.

But if you buy an 1894 design, you better be prepared to accept it and learn to handle it safely.

Byron
July 23, 2009, 02:03 PM
Hornady manuals give excellent load data for the 30-30.I use Olin 748 but work up to these loads.Sam Fadala wrote a book 'The 30-30 and the Winchester 94". It has reasonable load data and deals what the 30-30 factory ammo is capeable of doing. Byron

Clark
August 24, 2009, 12:58 PM
I have tried to blow up allot of guns, and I think I can tell what will blow and what will not. It seems to follow the work up trend, thin steel blows up, thick steel does not. With thick steel, the brass fails first, and my work up stops.

My Win94 30-30 looks like it wants to blow up.

My Sav99 303S, Sav 219 30-30, my Win 1885 clone 30-30, and my converted 91/30 30-30 do not look like they will blow up.

I got those guns for overload testing, but have not shot any of them yet.

I also want to get a Marlin 336.

SlamFire1
August 24, 2009, 03:21 PM
my Win 1885 clone 30-30,

Highwall or low wall, the 1885 should provide better case support and have a stiffer action than a lever action.

I hope you will report on your experiments. I am always curious.

Cosmoline
August 24, 2009, 05:02 PM
The business about the 94 being dangerous started when the salesmen needed to sell the new "improved" 94's with the lawyer safety. It's a lot of nonsense.

The rear locking lug is a limit on accuracy, I suppose, but not really strength. I've got a custom Big Bore that had been chambered for .458x2 Marlin. The previous owner cranked up the loads to the max. I'm not as brave, but he survived it.

The .30 WCF, in my handloading experience with the round, is inherently limited in power due to the small powder capacity. It also doesn't *NEED* to be hot loaded. So even if you could, why would you want to?

moooose102
August 25, 2009, 09:53 AM
i for one believe that the half cock safey system is very adequet for hunting and shooting. what is unsafe about it is the shooter! i have carried my marlis through the woods for years, without any problems. there is no way to shoot it on half cock. BUT, GETTING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST GUYS, i am not so hot on hot rodding the 30-30 in a lever action gun. if you had a good bolt, or single shot, i might change my mind. but lever guns are just not all that strong. load to the max if you must, but i would load past that VERY SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY. hospial bills are so much more expensive than just going out and buying a more powerful rifle! and a lot more painful! a good brand new hunting rifle in 300 win mag will set you back roughly $1000.00 after you get all the goodies. a ride to the hospital, in an ambulance will eat that up before you even get to the hospital! i used to be all gun-ho on hot rodding cartridges. one goof up, where you nearly destroy a gun, or get hurt, will make you re-think all of that. i learned from experience. trust us here, and save yourself the greif! just don't do it!!!

higene
August 25, 2009, 08:54 PM
ranger335v your comment had me laughing so hard I was crying. That is some funny sh#t.

Seriously

The first rule of wildcatting is don't reinvent the .308. A few years ago I worked on a hot 30-30. I went Ackley Improved and really wrung out a 30-30. The problem with hot rodding the 30-30 is the case. With hot loads you get brass flow and the case gets thinner a quarter to 3/8 inch above the head. You want to see a grown man cry, pop a case head off resizing the case and spend days trying the get the rest of the case out of the die. I have had the same thing happen with a TC Contender on extraction but it is easier to get the case out.

Load 30-30s to book specks, maybe a little more. I used to go to the range just before hunting season when all the city boys were banging away with their 94s and 336s and pick up all the brass that they left. I'd take it home and load it up with gas checked 170 grain cast lead loads and shoot the s#!t out of it. 30-30s are quick to hit something with not fast bullet wise or long distance.

Get good at shooting your 30-30 standing, kneeling, & sitting, (from your pickup truck :eek:). 30-30s got their name as a deer gun. Canadians have killed everything that lives in Canada with them not because that is the recommended gun but because that's what the had and they could shoot. Americans have killed black bear, elk, and antelope with them. So they can get the job done they just are not the best tool for all situations.

The top loads I did on a 30-30 AI case were with 110 and 125 gr bullets. If you want more knock down power in the 30-30 family go to a 375 Winchester (the old 38-55). That is basically a straight walled 30-30 case ( I have fire formed 375 cases from 30-30 shells). You want a 308 or 30-06 get one they are all over the place.

Attached picture shows the 30-30 family. 25-35 brass (I don't own one, just a case), AI - 110 Speer JSP, & 32 gr 4198, AI - 125 Nozler Ballistic tip 32 gr 4198, stock 30-30 - 170 Hornady & 25 gr 4198, 375 Winchester (fire formed from a 30-30 case) - 245 cast lead & 32 gr 4198.

Good luck and be safe,

Higene

;)

DEDON45
August 25, 2009, 10:53 PM
Modern leverguns (like the Marlins) are indeed much stronger than the old ones from a century ago; however, the .30-30 case design is quite weak in comparison to other more modern cartridges; that brass is thin. If you want more power in a levergun, get one of the modern Marlin leverguns in one of the new higher-powered levergun cartridges with the HOrnday FTX bullets / rounds.

ForneyRider
August 25, 2009, 11:06 PM
I loaded 150gr SP, Hornady 160gr, and Sierra 125gr JHP and the Hornady were most accurate at 100 yards.

3rd shot always seems to go awry, so we shoot twice, let the barrel cool and shoot again in a Marlin 336W. 160gr Hornady was happy at 2100fps or so.

qajaq59
August 26, 2009, 06:47 AM
Only once have I ever worked up an accurate load in a 30-30 that was at the max . Generally I reach the right load long before I get there. And if it isn't accurate it doesn't matter how fast it's going, because you missed anyway.

Gambit
August 26, 2009, 06:07 PM
Back in the early '80s I pushed the 30/30 envelpoe in a Thompson Center Contender with a 10" bull barrel.

I don't remember the load data but, pushed it until the primers flattened and the brass flowed. Had to push many of the cases out of that barrel. I was neck sizing and trying to find the hottest (and safe) load the would provide the best accuracy from that 10" barrel. This being said, I kept a close eye out for signs of barrel wear and even though of having it magnafluxed at one time just to see for sure whether the barrel could handle what I had been testing and still remain sound. I ended up trading that contender, with two other barrels, to my brother for a used Buick Wildcat. He continued to shoot factory loads without any problems. Kudos to TC Contenders.

Would not suggest trying this, as has been stated, with any lever rifle.

lefteyedom
August 27, 2009, 02:02 AM
In Hot Rodding one of the main way to improve performance is to replace the vehicle's motor with a more powerful one.

If you want to "HOT ROD" a 30-30 and you drive a single shot rifle then rechamber it for 30/40 Kraig. NEF/HR Handi rifle guys have been doing this for years.

Otherwise enjoy the old girl for what she is.

The Bushmaster
August 27, 2009, 09:17 AM
32.0 grains of W-748 under a 170 grain Speer Hotcore flat point in Winchester or Remington cases properly trimmed and crimped. A safe and accurate load running right at 2,000 fps.

jeepmor
July 3, 2010, 12:29 PM
Go hot rod your car, not your 30-30. Why is it that so many want to exceed or push safet limits when it comes to reloading. You want a fast 30 Caliber round, buy a 300RUM, WSM or similar.

oof, that's an old thread

qajaq59
July 3, 2010, 03:42 PM
oof, that's an old thread Ayup......

Clark
July 14, 2010, 11:27 AM
Remo-99
Quote:
The 270 is SAAMI registered at 65,000 psi max average pressure.

The 30-30 case is WAY stronger than the 270 case.
Sorry Clark, I must respetively disagree with you on that one.

Sorry Remo-99, but I must respectfully disagree with your disagreement.

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


data I collected 5-16-2010
1 in 12" twist
26" long.
7 pound rifle

220 gr HNDY round nose moly W748 2.92" 26" barrel, 30-30, Sav 219L
Quickload prediction:
33 gr 51 kpsi 2176 fps
34 gr 56 kpsi 2232 fps
35 gr 62 kpsi 2287 fps
36 gr 68 kpsi 2340 fps
37 gr 75 kpsi 2394 fps
38 gr 83 kpsi 2446 fps brass and primer still look good
39 gr 92 kpsi 2498 fps primer very cratered, case full of powder, ball powder compresses a hair below 2.92"
39 gr 92 kpsi 2498 fps primer very cratered, case full of powder, ball powder compresses a hair below 2.92"

data I collected 2007-1-31:
1) .270Win Howa, 22" barrel, 13x40x40 Vari-iii scope 130 gr 1.125" PSP moly bullets, seated long, 3.34", surplus Bulk IMR4895 that burns like H322

51 gr 3093 fps .015" extractor groove growth, primer fell out, gun jammed, 10 minutes to pound bolt open [Quickload predicts 3152fps, 76kpsi ]

What does it all mean?
1) I was right when I cross sectioned that 30-30 case head and the 270 case head and pronounced that SAAMI registration for pressure was NOT correlating with case head strength.
2) I was right when I said Speer was wrong about the 30-30 case head.
3) I produced data to refute Remo-99's challenge to my assertions.

R.W.Dale
July 14, 2010, 12:13 PM
Clark was your "data" produced using a 30-30 that fully supports the case as with a break action single shot?

If so was your comparative 270 measurments made in the same type chamber?

If not then your "data" is simply not valid and is just another apples to oranges comparison by someone without access to real ballistics testing equipment.

JustinCglass
July 14, 2010, 05:33 PM
If you buy ANYTHING designed in 1894, you better be prepared to accept it and learn to deal with it on its own terms.

In this world we have come to expect that all our products will protect us automatically, we only pick it up and use it with no special knowledge or effort. If that's your desire, buy a modern rifle with all the safety features built in.

But if you buy an 1894 design, you better be prepared to accept it and learn to handle it safely.


My point exactly.

If you want to get a lot of velocity, use a liter bullet and a but more powder
if you want more energy at impact site, you a heavy bullet with less powder
but please, to keep your gun from looking like that marlin 45-70,
just stick to the manual and you should find a great load for it!

Clark
July 14, 2010, 05:57 PM
krochus
Clark was your "data" produced using a 30-30 that fully supports the case as with a break action single shot?

If so was your comparative 270 measurments made in the same type chamber?

If not then your "data" is simply not valid and is just another apples to oranges comparison by someone without access to real ballistics testing equipment.

If anyone is concerned that case support affects case head strength tests, I will address it, otherwise...

qajaq59
July 14, 2010, 07:27 PM
If you want to hot rod something I'd suggest a nice new bolt action.The old faithful 30-30 levers were built for dropping deer and hogs. And I might add, they're darn good at it.

Kernel
July 14, 2010, 11:46 PM
Clark,

What brand of brass were you using? Do you think there are significant differences between the makes of .30-30 brass? If so, how would you rank them.

The way I read your test is: you loaded the rounds, observed the results, and used Quickload to predict the velocity (presumably, because you don't have a chrony). Correct?

Clark
July 15, 2010, 12:35 AM
Kernel,
That would be:
33 gr 51 kpsi R-P
34 gr 56 kpsi F C
35 gr 62 kpsi Win
36 gr 68 kpsi Win
37 gr 75 kpsi W-W
38 gr 83 kpsi F C
39 gr 92 kpsi Win

The brass is just used mixed brand.
They all look the same from the side, but the primers look a little different.

I have more confidence in Quickload when I get a case head of to fail at the same pressure with different powders and in different cartridges.
243, 260, 257RAI, 270, and .308 are all large Boxer primer pockets in 1889 Mauser case heads. If they all fail at 75kpsi with IMR4895, H322, H335, Varget, and H4350, then the constants for those powders in the QL library are more trusted. Even more confidence when the velocities match the chrono. Even more confidence when Sweet's von Mises calculations on case heads predict 77 kpsi and primer pocket failure.
I do not have a calculation for the 30-30 case head from Sweet.
I don't know if he reads this forum. He is more the African big game hunting kind of engineer.
The 6mmBR case head is so strong, the primer pocket does not fail before the primer pierces.
From cross sectioning, I can tell the 30-30 is even stronger.

ForneyRider
July 15, 2010, 03:52 PM
Shoot light bullets in 110, 125 or 130 gr. Don't need more horsepower, just lighter vehicle.

Kernel
July 16, 2010, 09:10 AM
Clark,

Sweet's von Mises calculations :confused::confused::confused:

Have not heard of this technique. Can you elaborate on those calculations, or provide a link. Google turned up nothing. I would be interested in understanding the math.

Clark
July 18, 2010, 01:06 PM
July 16, 2010 06:10 AM
Kernel Clark,

Quote:
Sweet's von Mises calculations


Have not heard of this technique. Can you elaborate on those calculations, or provide a link. Google turned up nothing. I would be interested in understanding the math.

Read this, and then you show ME how to calculate the threshold of case head failure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Mises_yield_criterion

Scott Sweet aka assclown on the AR forum in 2004 did some calculations for me on the 223 and AK47 case heads

an old post somewhere else, no longer available, in response to a request from me, from an engineer that calculated the case head strengths using von mises formulas:
ASS_CLOWN
one of us
Posted 22 June 2004 07:43
Clark,
Here are the results of the von Mises stress calculations for the 223 Remington case head.
Using mechanical properties for C26000 brass (cartridge brass)
Temper - H06
Tensile yield strength - 65,300 psi
von Mises stress at the Primer pocket surface - 117,186 psi
von Mises stress at the Extractor OD - 65,300 psi (initiation of yielding)
Chamber pressure - 86,427 psi (Nominal properties)
Chamber pressure - 80,809 psi (minimum properties)
Chamber pressure - 92,044 psi (maximum properties)
Again these values are ONLY valid for a H06 tempered C26000 case.
ASS_CLOWN
PS
The Mauser case head nominal condition chamber pressure for the initiation of case head yielding with H06 C26000 brass is: 76,977 psi
The H&H magnum case head nominal condition chamber pressure for the initiation of case head yielding with H06 C26000 brass is: 79,597 psi
The Rem Utra magnum case head nominal condition chamber pressure for the initiation of case head yielding with H06 C26000 brass is: 83,950 psi
The H&H magnum case head nominal condition chamber pressure for the initiation of case head yielding with H06 C26000 brass is: 79,597 psi
The 460 Weatherby magnum case head nominal condition chamber pressure for the initiation of case head yielding with H06 C26000 brass is: 89,987 psi
The Rigby case head nominal condition chamber pressure for the initiation of case head yielding with H06 C26000 brass is: 90,450 psi
The 7.62X39 Soviet case head nominal condition chamber pressure for the initiation of case head yielding with H06 C26000 brass AND LARGE RIFLE PRIMER is: 66,769 psi
The 7.62X39 Soviet case head nominal condition chamber pressure for the initiation of case head yielding with H06 C26000 brass AND SMALL RIFLE PRIMER is: 81,609 psi
The geometric and mechanical property tolerances for the C26000 H06 material and "estimated" case tolerancing provide for a +/- 7% value from the nominals I posted above.

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