NJ law Question


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svtruth
July 23, 2009, 05:01 PM
are hollow point pistol rounds illegal in NJ?

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kingpin008
July 23, 2009, 05:41 PM
No, they're not.

Tom488
July 23, 2009, 07:24 PM
Ugh.... this again....

Hollow-point bullets are generally ILLEGAL in NJ.... 2C:39-3f states that, "Any person, other than a LEO or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of 2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet [...] is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree".

The activities described in 2C:39-6f are: target shooting, transporting to/from place of target shooting, hunting, transporting to/from place of hunting.

2C:39-3g goes on to state that 2C:39-3f does not apply to the military or LE, and also does not apply to a person keeping hollow-points in their home, from purchasing it and transporting it home.

So, what does all that mean? It means you can buy HP ammo, take it home, keep it at home, take it to the range, and bring it back home from the range. You can NOT drive around with a box of HP ammo in your glove box, as that would be possession outside of the list of exceptions to the law.

Oh, and by the way... this applies to ALL HP rounds... not just pistol rounds. So, don't leave a box of .30-'06 HP rounds in the back of your truck, either.

answerguy
July 23, 2009, 11:50 PM
Ugh.... this again....

Hollow-point bullets are generally ILLEGAL in NJ.... 2C:39-3f states that, "Any person, other than a LEO or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of 2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet [...] is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree".

The activities described in 2C:39-6f are: target shooting, transporting to/from place of target shooting, hunting, transporting to/from place of hunting.

2C:39-3g goes on to state that 2C:39-3f does not apply to the military or LE, and also does not apply to a person keeping hollow-points in their home, from purchasing it and transporting it home.

So, what does all that mean? It means you can buy HP ammo, take it home, keep it at home, take it to the range, and bring it back home from the range. You can NOT drive around with a box of HP ammo in your glove box, as that would be possession outside of the list of exceptions to the law.

Oh, and by the way... this applies to ALL HP rounds... not just pistol rounds. So, don't leave a box of .30-'06 HP rounds in the back of your truck, either.Could this be moved up to the "Name the most asinine firearms law you can think of " thread?

Demitrios
July 24, 2009, 05:04 AM
There is a very slight way around this law. If you buy Powerball ammo you're essentially buying hollow points but with a plastic ball seated into the hollow. What happens is when the round enters a body the plastic shatters like shrapnel, now this may sound effective but the bullet loses some of its mushrooming effect and has now been turned into a watered down hollow point. However that little ball does make the "hollow point" legal to be carried in the state of NJ.

General Geoff
July 24, 2009, 05:25 AM
The wording of the NJ law says "Expanding ammunition." Powerball is a no-no, as is Expanding Full Metal Jacket (EFMJ). Technically even soft-point ammo is in violation.

Demitrios
July 24, 2009, 12:31 PM
Right, I realize expading ammo is a no-no, but in this case powerball is OK. The only reason I know this is because my brother is a cop and he's been approved to carry it.

kingpin008
July 24, 2009, 12:40 PM
The only reason I know this is because my brother is a cop and he's been approved to carry it.

Just because your brother is a cop and is allowed to carry Pow' R' Ball ammo doesn't mean that it's legal for non-LEO residents to do so. Police are routinely exempted from laws that would otherwise bar the use of a particular piece of equipment or activity.

everallm
July 24, 2009, 01:04 PM
If EFMJ is illegal you would not be able to buy it from an NJ gunshop or FFL, I'm sorry, your belief and interpretation is wrong, ditto SP ammunition.

raz-0
July 24, 2009, 04:25 PM
You can buy HP ammo, you can shoot HP ammo. You can store it at home. you cna transport it to and from the range.

If you shoot someone with HP ammo legally (i.e. justifiable self-defense in the home) you are still going to get charged in general, and probably will have the HP charge stick even if the shooting was within the law.

Get caught illegally transporting or possessing a firearm, and have HP ammo to go with it you will get slapped with the extra charge.

Probably the biggest trap for the honest gunowner is if you transport loaded magazines. In NJ loaded magazines are treated as a firearm, even in the absence of a firearm. HP in a magazine gets you the extra charge. This is something that is not clear if you just read the statutes.

GRIZ22
July 24, 2009, 11:22 PM
You can buy HP ammo, you can shoot HP ammo. You can store it at home. you cna transport it to and from the range.


Yes

If you shoot someone with HP ammo legally (i.e. justifiable self-defense in the home) you are still going to get charged in general, and probably will have the HP charge stick even if the shooting was within the law.


Charged? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on the totality of the circumstances surronding the shooting. More likely to get charged in NJ than Wyoming? Yes. More likely to get charged in NJ than Chicago or Washington, DC? Given these choices I'd pick NJ. Preferably in one of the southern counties.

If the shooting is justified I doubt a prosecutor would proceed on a hollow point only charge. Prosecutors make their name on convictions and a hollow point only charge in this situation would make the prosecutor look like a clown even to a NJ jury. He'd have to say the defendant legally shot the BG but used an illegal bullet.

Get caught illegally transporting or possessing a firearm, and have HP ammo to go with it you will get slapped with the extra charge.


Definitely.

Probably the biggest trap for the honest gunowner is if you transport loaded magazines. In NJ loaded magazines are treated as a firearm, even in the absence of a firearm. HP in a magazine gets you the extra charge. This is something that is not clear if you just read the statutes.
__________________


I have heard this and that you can be charged with one hollow point in your car. I understand NJ is the only state I know of which has a law and then has the Attorney General's guidelines interpreting that law (see NJSP. org, look under firerams).

Can anyone cite a case where someone was charged with loaded magazines or one hollow point?

I'm not making any excuse for NJ's draconian gun laws but the loaded magazine and one hollowpoint issue has been repeated so many times but I haven't seen anyone cite a case.

Tom488
July 25, 2009, 02:44 AM
The wording of the NJ law says "Expanding ammunition."
The word "expanding" appears no where in chapter 39 of the New Jersey statutes.

In NJ loaded magazines are treated as a firearm, even in the absence of a firearm. HP in a magazine gets you the extra charge. This is something that is not clear if you just read the statutes.
No, it certainly isn't. Got any case law or other authoratative source showing that a loaded magazine is a firearm?

I have heard this and that you can be charged with one hollow point in your car.
I too question the "loaded magazine=firearm".... but I can clearly see how one could be charged with possession of a hollow-nose bullet if a single round is found in a car. It's right there up in this thread... 2C:39-3f... "possession of hollow-nose ammunition = 4th degree crime". Doesn't matter if it's one or a hundred... just like it doesn't matter it it's one leaf or a half-pound of weed... possession is possession.

PaladinX13
July 25, 2009, 03:16 AM
I can clearly see how one could be charged with possession of a hollow-nose bullet if a single round is found in a car. It's right there up in this thread... 2C:39-3f... "possession of hollow-nose ammunition = 4th degree crime". Doesn't matter if it's one or a hundred... just like it doesn't matter it it's one leaf or a half-pound of weed... possession is possession.If a non-firearm owner was caught with a single .22LR hollow-point or one-leaf of marijuana, it would qualify as a de minimis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis) offense in NJ.

Tom488
July 25, 2009, 12:02 PM
it would qualify as a de minimis offense in NJ.
At the discretion of the assignment judge. Here in NJ, any firearms-related charge is looked upon as worse than child molestation. I have little doubt that a charge of unlawful possession stemming from the discovery of a single HP round would be pushed through.

PaladinX13
July 26, 2009, 12:40 AM
I have little doubt that a charge of unlawful possession stemming from the discovery of a single HP round would be pushed through.Hyperbole aside, that any NJ prosecutor would even raise the charge is really unlikely. There are no independent 2C:39-3f charges in NJ in over a decade... it's always something tacked on to substantive offenses to act as a bargaining chip during plea bargaining.

geekWithA.45
July 26, 2009, 09:34 PM
Sigh.

Tom488 is correct.

"Expanding" is not in the statutes, EFMJ, powerball, etc are treated as ordinary ammo.

Note that if you are one of the 600 or so people with a carry permit, there is no exemption for you, so you're stuck with hardball, EFMJ, or other exotics that are not HP/AP/dum-dum/incindiary

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