My CCW permit finally arrived! Now I have two questions for you.


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heavyshooter
July 23, 2009, 05:30 PM
Many of you already know the drama of my CCW application. After transferring to Colorado from Texas I was lazy about getting my CCW in my new home state. I made the foolish mistake of calling Arapahoe County in January to apply for my permit; I should have called much, much sooner!!! I called in the middle of the post-election rush. Arapahoe County would only take applications by appointment because so many people were applying for CCW’s. My appointment was 3 ˝ months after I called!!! Then the background check took another 3 months. But today I got the long awaited call and immediately went to the Sheriff's office to retrieve my permit. Because I am a law abiding citizen I have not been carrying a firearm since September 2008. I will never allow that to happen again!!! It made me aware of just how true it is that criminals do not care about the law. I left my gun at home but I assure you that the criminal has his gun. I felt naked. That will not happen again.

While on the way home from the Sherriff’s office I was on the phone with a friend in Texas and he asked if Colorado requires the presentation of my permit during a traffic stop. He reminded me of an occasion when we were both in his car in Texas and we were pulled over. My friend presented his Driver’s License and proof of insurance but he did not present his CCW (Texas CHL). Apparently the Texas Driver's License is flagged for CHL holders because the officer was made aware that my friend had a CHL during the traffic stop. He came back to the car and asked for the CHL and he was mildly annoyed (but never inappropriate) that my friend did not present it with the Drivers License. He then asked if I had a CHL as well; I did. He then asked if we were armed; Ahhhh, YEAH! :rolleyes: He gave us a cordial scolding :) and said, “For future reference, when an officer asks for identification, always include your CHL with your license. It’s the law.” Now this brings up a couple questions.

1) Is that the law? I am asking for Texas and Colorado particularly, but I am curious about other states as well. I have taken the NRA qualification class and it did not come up in our class.

2) Do you guys/gals volunteer the fact that you are armed during a traffic stop? As I said before, I desire to abide by the law so if I am obligated to volunteer this information I will certainly comply; a police officer's job is hard enough. But I can’t help but wonder how many of you inform the officer voluntarily.

Just Picking your brains,

Heavy

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DocCas
July 23, 2009, 05:36 PM
Colorado does not have a duty to notify law, but Texas does.

rbernie
July 23, 2009, 06:01 PM
In Texas, a Texas CHL holder must identify that they are a CHL holder when asked for ID. If you are an out-of-stater from a state with reciprocity with Texas - I would recommend that you be proactive and inform.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/colrecipold.pdf

In fact, from reading the CO reciprocity agreement with Texas it does sound as if the expectation is that the CO permit holder will be subject to Texas state law while in Texas. That is likely true for all reciprocity agreements.

He gave us a cordial scolding and said, “For future reference, when an officer asks for identification, always include your CHL with your license. It’s the law.”Your friend was lucky. He could have been written up on a misdemeanor and lost his CHL privileges for a bit as a result.

When you inform the officer, they will ask you where the firearm is and they will tell you how they (that specific officer) want you to deal with it. Just listen politely and do as asked, so long as it's reasonable and legal. Most importantly, do not leap out of your car and prance around wildly, waving the gun in all directions and screaming, "I'VE GOT A GUN!!". :D

Cougfan2
July 23, 2009, 06:07 PM
Oregon, where I live, has no duty to inform law, but they appreciate it if you do. I've been stopped three times in the years I've had a permit and presented my CCW each time. No problems. One cop actually thanked me for presenting it even when I didn't have to. Just makes them less nervous.

Fumbler
July 23, 2009, 08:21 PM
In NC, if you are carrying then it's mandatory that you tell an LEO that you have a concealed handgun permit (and are carrying) if they approach you.

I'm no legal expert, but I don't believe you must give your CHP to the LEO, you only have to tell them you have a CHP and that you are carrying.

If you get stopped on the road or come to a checkpoint it's always a good idea to hand the LEO your CHP with your driver's license (in addition to telling them). It just makes things easier.

MrCleanOK
July 23, 2009, 08:56 PM
Oklahoma has duty to inform in our concealed weapons law,

Kind of Blued
July 23, 2009, 09:01 PM
Colorado has no duty to inform and I prefer to exercise that. You are put into some sort of "criminal database" however (rather obnoxious), and I am under the impression that this is so that a LEO will know that you have the carry permit when he/she runs your info.

The Lone Haranguer
July 23, 2009, 09:10 PM
If not required to, I am not volunteering anything. This does of course depend on the state.

If TX has connected DMV and CHL records, why any need to inform? :confused:

Acera
July 23, 2009, 09:11 PM
I was always under the impression here in Texas, you had the duty to inform only if you were carrying at that time.

If you were not in possession of a weapon, you have no obligation.

Now with the motorist protection act, and a non-CHL owner able to have a loaded firearm accessible in his vehicle I don't know where it now stands for non holders.

loadedround
July 23, 2009, 10:19 PM
I'm from Pennsylvania and it's not necessary to inform a police officer if you're carrying or have a CCW unless asked. However my NRA decal on my back window saved me from a possible speeding ticket when stopped by a Pa State Policeman on the Pa Turnpike several years ago. He was an NRA Life Member also. :)

Deltaboy
July 23, 2009, 10:23 PM
"TX has connected DMV and CHL records, why any need to inform? "

I have asked that myself and I live here in Texas and I have not got a straight answer other that the boys in Austin wanted it that way.

TexasRifleman
July 23, 2009, 10:35 PM
I was always under the impression here in Texas, you had the duty to inform only if you were carrying at that time.

If you were not in possession of a weapon, you have no obligation.

Now with the motorist protection act, and a non-CHL owner able to have a loaded firearm accessible in his vehicle I don't know where it now stands for non holders.

Correct. If not carrying you don't need to show the CHL.

Non CHL holders carrying under the MPA have no duty to inform.

The last session of the legislature had a bill in the works to remove the duty to inform from CHL holders and make everything the same but the legislative session got seriously derailed with all the voter ID filibuster BS and it was never voted on.

Deltaboy
July 23, 2009, 10:43 PM
Maybe they will get it right in the special session.

TexasRifleman
July 23, 2009, 10:49 PM
Maybe they will get it right in the special session.

That's already come and gone. No gun related things were included on the agenda.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/transportation/stories/070309dnmetxgr.3caa334.html

Acera
July 23, 2009, 11:33 PM
TexasRifleman, thanks for the clarification.

DoubleTapDrew
July 23, 2009, 11:37 PM
If TX has connected DMV and CHL records, why any need to inform?
I wondered the same thing. Maybe it gives them an extra thing to hassle you about if you don't have the physical permit on you, kind of like not having proof of insurance even though the vehicle is insured.
In Oregon it's linked to your DL also. I've probably been stopped four times since getting my chl and have been asked about it once (just one of those "I saw you have a CHL, any firearms in the vehicle?" questions). Maybe I should present it but I feel like why bring it up if they don't. The guys without the license/permit are the ones they need to be nervous about.

84B20
July 23, 2009, 11:47 PM
You can check here to see what any particular state requirements are:

http://www.handgunlaw.us

ezypikns
July 23, 2009, 11:55 PM
I was always under the impression here in Texas, you had the duty to inform only if you were carrying at that time.

If you were not in possession of a weapon, you have no obligation.


Your license tells the LEO you're a CHL holder and yet you fail to inform him. He doesn't know whether you're carrying or not. And he doesn't know why you didn't inform him.

So you take a potential problem (the original traffic stop), and immediately move things to another level.

Why in the world wouldn't you just hand him your CHL along with your DL?

Oh, I see. The law doesn't require you to.

Bigfro23
July 23, 2009, 11:55 PM
I know in Virginia, if stopped for anything traffic/ pedestrian, etc.. you have to present your CWP, and the same in OKlahoma... They know not only by your DL but if they run your plates that you indeed have a CWP... I actually got pulled over twice for Minor traffic Violations in both OK/VA, and actually took great pride in Handing over my CWP....Great Feeling....

heavyshooter
July 24, 2009, 12:01 AM
If TX has connected DMV and CHL records, why any need to inform?

I was wondering about this myself.

21bubba
July 24, 2009, 12:09 AM
So somebody please tell me why it would be a problem just to show a LEO that you have a permit and leave it at that?
Seems to me that if i was the LEO i would be a little bit more at ease if i was informed rather than finding out by a license check.

TexasRifleman
July 24, 2009, 12:10 AM
If TX has connected DMV and CHL records, why any need to inform?

I am pretty sure the TX CHL database is tied to the drivers license database, NOT the license plate info.

So, the requirement to inform is so that they will know at initial contact, not after they run the DL.

That's how I understand it anyway.

heavyshooter
July 24, 2009, 12:43 AM
So somebody please tell me why it would be a problem just to show a LEO that you have a permit and leave it at that?

It's no problem at all. I am just curious as to how the THR crowd handles a traffic stop. The gentleman who taught my CCW class was annoyed by the fact that we had to take the class in the first place. He repeatedly referred to the 2nd amendment as our CCW. I am curious as to how he would respond to the obligation to publish his concealed handgun; would he consider that a violation of his 2nd amendment rights? Since I did not ask him about this I am asking THR.

I have a good friend who is a Denver Police Officer and my conversations with him have led me to inform the officer during a traffic stop. As I said in the OP, the officer's job is hard enough so I do not want to add to his burden. If giving him my DL and CCW at the same tame will put him at ease I would feel obliged to do so. But I want everyone to take two things into consideration.

1) I would present the CCW to avoid drama, but that is just my opinion. I posted the question so I could get everyone else’s opinion.

2) Some officers are jerks! When I was about 14 years old, my 10 year old brother and I were in the truck with my father and we were driving home from work (my father was a contractor for the Dallas Morning News and my brother and I worked for him). A police officer in front of us was driving 40 mph in a 55 mph zone. It felt like we were walking. My father passed him at 50 mph (I recall my father saying that he was going to pass him while staying well under the speed limit). When we passed him he pulled us over for speeding. Both officers approached the car with their weapons drawn!!! :fire: It was the quintessential example of power tripping! I do not want the hassle of dealing with a jerk when he discovers that I am armed. Because of this I can appreciate why some do not want to inform the officer.

Heavy

tdowell
July 24, 2009, 02:12 AM
Not that it matters, but Missouri is easy, our divers license IS our CCW. When you complete the course, you have to go to DVM and they issue you a new license with the permit right on the license. Plus, ours gets done in 1 day, just complete the class and the insturctor signs the form and off you go to the DMV, you do have to register for the class with the local Sheriff a few days before and the can complete a bg check instantly. Waiting 6 months is BS!! Call your congressman!!!

Mr. Bojangles
July 24, 2009, 05:26 AM
Where I live we are not required to present a CCW, but it does come up when they run the license.

I've noticed since I got my CCW permit I've gotten off the hook for all sorts of speeding tickets. I'm always polite and give them my permit when they first pull me over. I've never had any response that has been negative, and I've always been thanked for presenting the permit to them.

mcdonl
July 24, 2009, 08:45 AM
I tell them *IF* I have a gun out of respect... we all know things can get wierd really quickly and the officer should know that you are armed.

chuckusaret
July 24, 2009, 10:33 AM
I am only required to inform the LEO here in Florida only if he should ask if I have a firearm/weapon. I have informed the LEO several times on routine traffic stops with a different reaction from the LEO each time. On one occasion I presented my CCW permit with my drivers license; the LEO's returned my CCW and stated "I don't need this". On another occasion I was pulled over at a DUI/Drug roadblock and I presented my CCW permit with my DL; The officer drew his weapon, called for assistance, order me to surrender my weapon, butt first, order me out of the car and patted me down, asked if he could look in the trunk and I said no which seemed to make him get even more upset. The back up office ran my DL and CCW permit in his good time, about 30 minutes, with no negative results. I was then told of my responsibilities to the LEO when stopped in the future but which were all contradictory to Florida Statute. I sent a nice letter to the officer’s police chief, the town manager, the town mayor and commissioners, the governor and Charles H. Bronson, DOA Commissioner. I included in my letter the responsibilities of a CCW permit holder IAW Florida 790.06 I received only one reply and that was from the DOA that reaffirmed my responsibilities. I no longer provide my CCW permit with my DL nor do I inform the LEO that I am carrying unless he makes it a point to ask if I have any weapons.
Reference Florida Statute 790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.--
The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer.

IAJack
July 24, 2009, 02:51 PM
Iowa has no duty to inform. I practice the "don't ask don't tell" method. If I am pulled over for a traffic violation such as speeding or a taillight out and the officer doesn't ask me if I have a gun then I do not disclose it. If he is going to just write me up then why unnecessarily alarm them.

If they ask me to step out of the vehicle to step back to their car to write the ticket like they often do then I tell them that there is something I need to inform them about first and hand them my permit.

Iowa is a "may issue" state to were some counties do not issue permits and many LEO's are not used to encountering armed citizens nor nesacarilly like the idea.

HKUSP45C
July 24, 2009, 03:23 PM
It's very simple in Texas.

If you're carrying and a magistrate or officer asks you for ID (dmands is the language used in the statute) then you must present both your state issued ID AND your CHL. If you're not carrying you must only present your state issued ID. Your status as a CHL holder is tied to your DL (or state ID) and the officer will likely ask you why you didn't tell him or her about your CHL status when he or she asked for ID ... answer in any way you choose.

Unless you don't have a CHL and you're in your vehicle, in which case, you're not obligated to inform him or her that you're armed at all.

This session we couldn't get the "duty to inform" rescinded BUT we did get the penalty for not informing rescinded. So, if you have a CHL, are carrying AND don't inform the officer it is still against the law .... there just isn't a punishment for it anymore. Starting September 1st, of course, as all Texas laws do.

SECTION 12A.01. Sections 411.187(a) and (c), Government
Code, are amended to read as follows:
(a) A license may be suspended under this section if the
license holder:
(1) is charged with the commission of a Class A or
Class B misdemeanor or an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code,
or of a felony under an information or indictment;
(2) [fails to display a license as required by Section
411.205; Emphasis on the part struck through in the code.

Truthseeker
July 24, 2009, 04:00 PM
According to state law, you have no duty to inform in Virginia. It's up to each individual whether you would do so.

ezypikns
July 24, 2009, 04:46 PM
since getting my CHL. Every stop has been handled professionally and courteously by the officers, two city policemen (from different suburbs) and a DPS officer (our highway patrol here in Texas). I've never been disarmed. After informing the officers that I was armed, they went about their business as if I hadn't been. I treat them the same way they treat me, and so far I haven't been disappointed.

Basically non-events.

AWorthyOpponent
July 24, 2009, 05:03 PM
I am pretty sure the TX CHL database is tied to the drivers license database, NOT the license plate info.

So, the requirement to inform is so that they will know at initial contact, not after they run the DL.

That's how I understand it anyway.

It depends on the Sheriff's Office or the Police Station as to whether or not they will know at initial contact. Here's how they run a tag.

Tag #: X12 3YZ

Registered Owners: John Doe; Jane Doe

Vehicle Info:
Black
Chevrolet
Silverado
2002


Owner 1: John Doe
NCIC: Clear
DL Status: Valid

Owner 2: Jane Doe
NCIC: Clear
DL Status: Valid

From there they click on the registered owner of the car and your information pops up, including every picture that you have taken for past DL's/Permits. Also, your entire record, including criminal history, any and all NTA's, traffic tickets, Written Warnings, and even sometimes verbal warnings. It depends on if the officer takes the time to look into the back ground before stopping you, but he has to see who is driving the car before he wastes his time and looks up your information.

HKUSP45C
July 24, 2009, 06:25 PM
Also, your entire record, including criminal history, any and all NTA's, traffic tickets, Written Warnings, and even sometimes verbal warnings.

Two questions:
What's a NTA?

I heard that if an off duty officer sees you driving fast or recklessly they can call in your plates and put a "notice" on your traffic record for other officers to see if they pull you over later, even if they never make "contact" with the driver. Is that true? Can you rack up a "heat score" unbeknownst to yourself?

I only ask you because you seem intimately familiar with the process.

doc2rn
July 24, 2009, 07:12 PM
It is just easier and the officers are way more friendly if you offer it upfront

Rockwell1
July 25, 2009, 11:10 AM
It is just easier and the officers are way more friendly if you offer it upfront

Apparently not

On another occasion I was pulled over at a DUI/Drug roadblock and I presented my CCW permit with my DL; The officer drew his weapon, called for assistance, order me to surrender my weapon, butt first, order me out of the car and patted me down, asked if he could look in the trunk and I said no which seemed to make him get even more upset. The back up office ran my DL and CCW permit in his good time, about 30 minutes, with no negative results. I was then told of my responsibilities to the LEO when stopped in the future but which were all contradictory to Florida Statute.

In Colorado you are required to inform IF ASKED. The actual statute says surrender your permit upon demand but I take that to mean if they ask if I'm carrying I tell them.

Beyond that I never answer questions the police aren't asking

SCKimberFan
July 25, 2009, 11:39 AM
If TX has connected DMV and CHL records, why any need to inform?

Because they can...

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