Open Carry Etiquette


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Domina
July 25, 2009, 02:09 PM
I've never been one to open carry, only conceal carry in accordance with my permit. I've been invited to a dinner where "Tasteful Open Carry" is encouraged. I think I have a good idea of what "Tasteful" consists of, but I'd like to know how members of the community more used to an open carry environment view it, and any other general Open Carry considerations for etiquitte one should think on.

Thank you.
-D

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psyopspec
July 25, 2009, 02:27 PM
It's an emphasis on social manners and pleasantries. Wear clean, wrinkle free pants, wear a tucked in shirt with some buttons on it, and go heels. The tasteful part as it applies specifically to carry of a weapon means it's not gaudy IE, not a Deagle in a drop leg holster. A belt holster is typically best, and if you have a barbecue gun with some nice leather to show off, this sounds like an occasion to take it out.

Also, watch your drinking, and don't take the gun out of the holster to show off without asking the how host if it's kosher and how/where they would like it done.

TheProf
July 25, 2009, 07:10 PM
Here's my suggestion,

When arriving at another person's home while open carrying...ask if it is ok. (It's just courteous.)
When carrying concealed...it's best not to bring it up.

Here's my thinking... and by the way, I'm pro-gun.... I like to be the only one armed in my home. I really find it distasteful for someone to arrive in my private dwelling armed. Seemed contradictory? No. I just my personal preference. Do I carry at home...of course!!! Do I believe that people should be able to carry...sure. In fact, every law-abiding citizen who is of sound mind ought to carry. (It's your civic duty.)........but not in my house...unless I give you permission first.

Domina
July 25, 2009, 07:29 PM
psyopspec:
It's a plain WWII pattern 1911 from Auto Ordnance. I make it a point not to drink while I'm armed. I try to make it a policy never to discuss my carry gun or the fact that I have it, except with certain people when that is the specific topic of discussion. For concealed carry my feeling is that as far as the world needs to know, it isn't there. Except if I'm specifically asked about it.

TheProf:
One of the biggest reasons I only carry concealed is to not attract attention or cause undue alarm. Yes typically when conceal carrying I never bring the subject up, but am respectful of folks whom I know don't want people to carry on their property. I don't find it unreasonable.

In this case it's an organized event at a public establishment.

Is it impolite to dine with a 1911 in condition 1 vs. condition 3? Or does it matter?

bigfatdave
July 25, 2009, 07:40 PM
Go condition 1 if that is your normal carry method.

Did you buy a specific holster for this, or are you going for exposed IWB?

psyopspec
July 25, 2009, 08:13 PM
I think condition 1 should be fine, if only because it's the safest way to carry a 1911 in a ready condition.

stevemis
July 26, 2009, 02:50 AM
Tasteful Open Carry: Business casual with a nice 1911 in a leather holster.

Distasteful Open Carry: Tight shorts, a paint-stained T-shirt, flip flops and a Hi Point shoved down the back of your shorts...

Domina
July 26, 2009, 03:08 AM
Dave:
No I don't even have a carry holster for this one. I haven't decided what the best way to carry is. Typically I CCW in small of back or along hip in a cross draw.

Sounds like a lot of people suggest leather for a formal looking holster. Thought I saw a few Galcos in Havana Brown that looked nice.

These kind of caught my eye.
http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPG3.asp?ProductID=3719&GunID=28
http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPG3.asp?ProductID=116&GunID=28

I kind of like the thumb strap of the "Gladius". Somehow I think I would feel more comfortable open carrying with the retention strap. Maybe that's just superstition on my part. Gladius is back ordered though, may not be able to get one in time. Does it look right for a formal engagement?

Sunray
July 26, 2009, 03:10 AM
"...go heels..." Heels?
"...find it distasteful for someone to arrive in my private dwelling armed...unless I give you permission first..." CCW ok with you? What do you expect/want your guests to do when they arrive at your home? Check their guns at the door? Just curious. Your comments are definitely contradictory.
"...I've been invited to a dinner where..." Domina, you sound like you know what you're about. Do what you think is right and quit worrying. "in accordance with my permit." Says it all.

TheProf
July 26, 2009, 04:46 AM
Like I said, I'm a big Right To Carry Advocate... even to the point of believing that it is your civic duty to do so (assuming that you are not a felon or mental health case). But in my private home...if you are a guest ASK first if you can be armed.

Sounds contradictory??? Yup. Can't explain it. Maybe it is my desire to have the tactical advantage in my home. (By the way, you ought to carry in YOUR home....always.)

Now, if I am going to your house, and I open carry...I would give you the courtesy of asking first.
If I go concealed...I just keep quiet about it.

Fred Fuller
July 26, 2009, 08:09 AM
This one seems more suited to Handguns than S&T... and it'll likely get more attention there as well.

lpl

psyopspec
July 26, 2009, 11:40 AM
"...go heels..." Heels?

An old colloquialism from the American Southwest meaning "to go armed."

Domina
July 26, 2009, 11:50 AM
Lee:

Sorry about that. Just wasn't quite sure where to file "Etiquitte". Might be appropriate to move it to Handguns then.

dmazur
July 26, 2009, 02:04 PM
From "The American Cowboy and his lingo"

http://www.cowboyup.com/American_Cowboy.html

GO HEELED: To carry a six-shooter, also packing iron.

armoredman
July 26, 2009, 04:01 PM
I think in this case heels referred to ladies dress shoes.

chris in va
July 26, 2009, 04:30 PM
But in my private home...if you are a guest ASK first if you can be armed.

If I go concealed...I just keep quiet about it.

Definitely a double standard. I never ask if I can carry in someone's house. One reason to have a very concealable firearm.

But anyway re: open carry, sounds like you're overthinking the issue. Wear normal stuff, belt holster...have lunch. And yes I've been to a few OC events.

uh-oh
July 26, 2009, 04:50 PM
In addition to looking not like a bum, I take "tasteful OC" to include also curbing any foul language, posturing, or over-aggressiveness. I don't take it to mean any specific type of gun in a specific type of holster (other than not in a "tactical" type drop-leg rig or some sort of rig on a molle vest over body armor).

Skillet
July 26, 2009, 05:30 PM
i noticed that when you are outdoors or are doing an activity that requires a coat, i use current military camo designed jacket, jeans don't matter. that way, if you want to carry open, it won't arouse much disturbance. they just assume that you are in the military. a short cut and a fit body helps on that as well. :neener:

rhinoh
July 26, 2009, 08:25 PM
Here's my suggestion,

When arriving at another person's home while open carrying...ask if it is ok. (It's just courteous.)
When carrying concealed...it's best not to bring it up.

.

That may fly in your state, but not all. In SC one may not enter a residence with a concealed weapon without permission.

"No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate."

Oro
July 26, 2009, 10:19 PM
Is it impolite to dine with a 1911 in condition 1 vs. condition 3? Or does it matter?

I checked my etiquette guide, and actually it suggests condition 2:



From: The Little Book of Gun Etiquette, by S. & W. Colt:

When the accompaniment is a 1911 style pistol, the question often comes up of the condition of carry. While we agree that Condition One is fine for safety, it still leaves the appearance of something amiss for all but the confirmed 1911 fan. The obvious drawbacks of Condition Three carry cannot be ignored, and the gulf is easily spanned with Condition Two carry. It offers the appearance of Condition Three, yet with the speed of employment almost rivaling Condition One. Tip: if you are out of practice or unfamiliar with it, do rehearse before your event.

I thought this was very intelligent and sage advice. Where would we be without Emily Gun Post? I also second your choice of a Galco in Havana Brown. Very nice. If you need one on loan, I can send you one (it's Commander, not full sized, though - a little barrel showing through the tip may be gauche). ;)

John Parker
July 26, 2009, 10:43 PM
i noticed that when you are outdoors or are doing an activity that requires a coat, i use current military camo designed jacket, jeans don't matter. that way, if you want to carry open, it won't arouse much disturbance. they just assume that you are in the military. a short cut and a fit body helps on that as well.

That is lame beyond belief.
And out of curiousity, if you are wearing a jacket that covers your pistol, doesn't that make it a concealed weapon?

nalioth
July 26, 2009, 10:50 PM
"...go heels..." Heels?
An old colloquialism from the American Southwest meaning "to go armed."

Our education system is slowly but surely going down the toilet. Did you know that they've found a bunch of 25-year-olds who can't write in cursive?

Anyway, the colloquialism you're looking for is "heeled" or "well heeled." (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=define%3Aheeled&btnG=Search)

We're not cross-dressers here.

Alimony Bob
July 26, 2009, 11:42 PM
Hope this doesn't put me in the "dunce's corner" but I would appreciate it if someone coud define"Condition 1..." etc. Thanks.

nalioth
July 26, 2009, 11:57 PM
Hope this doesn't put me in the "dunce's corner" but I would appreciate it if someone coud define"Condition 1..." etc. Thanks. Let me help you with that . .

"Condition 1" - Google Search (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=condition+1)

novaDAK
July 26, 2009, 11:58 PM
so much freaking misinformation in this thread I don't know where to start.

Alimony Bob, this link will help you out:

http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm

:)

Alimony Bob
July 27, 2009, 12:27 AM
Thanks. That was an interesting discussion of the "half cock" too.

Domina
July 27, 2009, 03:25 AM
Oro:
Interesting reference, but I've never felt comfortable with Condition 2. To me, fiddling with the hammer seems like an invitation to an unintentional discharge. Cock it, lock it, and leave it alone makes me more comfortable, so it would be either Condition 1 or Condition 3 for me.

Frankly, if I'm going to open carry at all rather than conceal carry, it would be specifically to make a statement or with the intention to have a weapon in a faster deployment position. Neither of those say Condition 3 to me so Condition 1 it is I guess. I expect others to have their own preferences, but I'm getting the gist most gun owners won't be paying that so much attention to that as they would one's deportment.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I think I'm up to speed.

General Geoff
July 27, 2009, 04:27 AM
I don't see how Condition 1 could be construed as "something amiss" by anyone. And even if it could, my thumb break holster is designed to be carried hammer back.

loop
July 27, 2009, 09:06 AM
BBQ gun time!

Carry a nice, high-quality gun in a presentable OWB leather holster.

Do not show up with a Ruger in an Uncle Mike's and think it is tasteful.

If I had issued the invitation I would expect to see special guns toted in quality leather.

Not having any hand tooling would be a faux pas that may only be forgiven by universal recognition of your inability to afford said tooling.

The gun should be the best you have. Something that is obviously custom would be best.

I would probably carry a very clean stainless 1911 with no manufacturer marks outside the serial number. It would have custom grips and a hand-tooled holster that matches the grips.

But, that is kind of low key for me for a BBQ gun. For a BBQ I prefer a gun that screams over-the-top in a fully hand-tooled holster that matches my belt.

They do not have to match your boots or your hat.

Just wear your best jeans and a nice dress shirt.

Wear your shiny boots, not the ones you wear when you muck stalls.

Around here "high heels" means do not wear sneakers. Wear something with a heel. Something with a spur deck is preferable...

herohog
July 27, 2009, 03:54 PM
I see a lot in this thread about looks but little real Open Carry Etiquette information. At our VCDL events, when we open carry, we use retention holsters and NEVER TOUCH THE GUN. The ONLY time I have seen exception to this was when a member allowed a member of the media try to remove his gun from his holster to demonstrate that retention holsters are quite safe and you have to know how to use one to remove a properly holstered gun from one. If you choose to rear a shoulder holster, please use a vertical rig as no one wants to look down the muzzle of your gun.

ArmedBear
July 27, 2009, 04:01 PM
Sounds good, herohog.

What's "tasteful", though?

herohog
July 27, 2009, 04:11 PM
"Tasteful" is subjective and depends on who you are talking to. I would assume my long barrel polished Stainless Steel Redhawk .44 Mag with the Red Dot in an across the chest hunting rig could be considered tasteless by some as could an old Iver Johnson in a cheap web holster made for another gun. Heck, a Beretta 92 in a thigh SWAT style rig with 73 extra magazines in my pocket pants I guess.

I am thinking Leather holster with a nice Auto or Revolver; say a blue Model 10 or 1911 in nice leather. Avoid .22 caliber guns (too small) and overly LARGE guns. Mid-full size Autos and revolvers with Iron sites with a good finish (blue, satin or polished Stainless Steel, Parkerized or even Nickle plated perhaps?) would be a good choice I would think. I would avoid any Krylon painted/oven baked painted anything!

ArmedBear
July 27, 2009, 04:22 PM
I have two middle fingers that I keep around, just for people who'd be that picky about my material possessions.

(That said, I have some really pretty grips on a mid-sized S&W revolver, that I'd love to wear to a party.)

Vern Humphrey
July 27, 2009, 04:28 PM
Interesting reference, but I've never felt comfortable with Condition 2. To me, fiddling with the hammer seems like an invitation to an unintentional discharge.
As more than one man has found out, to his regret.

Domina
July 28, 2009, 01:48 AM
herohog:
That's good stuff. Thank you. I think I saw the event you mentioned on youtube, where the reporter was yanking the guy's pants around by his gun.

I actually have an ancient Iver Johnson and some other hex barreled 5 shot .38 shorty my grandfather used to carry more than 80 years ago. It's something I keep in a box with some of his effects.

I'm planning to wear my Auto Ordnance "WWII Parkerized" 1911 because I think it looks classier than my XD compact. Maybe one day I'll consider getting something more for show, but that's all I have right now. Probably going to go for that Glaco Gladius, I just like the minimalist pattern/thumb break better.

I'm a bit of an artist, perhaps one day I'll come up with some scrollwork that would fit on a 1911. That would be an interesting canvas for personal expression.

bensdad
July 28, 2009, 02:02 AM
I think this guy sums it up nicely:
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2006/03/court-guns-and-bbq-guns.html

travellingJeff
July 28, 2009, 04:31 AM
The only thing I ask of anyone carrying a firearm is that they don't discharge it in my presence, unless it's at a range or in legitimate defense.

I wouldn't think of asking "permission" to carry in someone's home any more than I'd expect them to ask me "permission" to pray silently in mine, or to wear purple socks, or chew bubblegum. Of course, that's for invited guests. Random, unknown, shower-uppers, might be asked to allow me to secure their firearm or vacate the premises.

I've OC'ed (with a sports jacket removed) in five star dining establishments, I've OC'ed in blue-jeans and horse-poop covered boots in dive bars. I believe it's a man's job to behave as a gentleman and I do as such. If I'm ever asked to leave for carrying, I will. I don't believe in coarse language around ladies, so I don't need to concern myself with that. I don't believe in immoderate use of alcohol, so it's not a big deal. I also don't believe in bullying, posturing, or starting confrontations simply because I've got the "end-to-all-arguments" riding on my hip.

Be a polite, courteous gentleman, as you always should be.

But be ready to draw and kill at a moments notice, if you must.

Hope this helps.




Also, if you want to see what OC is like, get to a OC dinner, trash pickup or general hang out.

bensdad
July 28, 2009, 06:30 AM
Things may be different in different parts of the country/world, but around here, you NEVER clear leather in a social setting. There is no such thing as "show and tell" with guns. I never see anyone take a gun out of its holster unless they're at the safety table or on the line. At dinner? NEVER.

I've seen folks take a holster off... with a gun in it... to show off the holster/carry rig a little better, but you don't take the gun out. It just isn't done - for good reason.

Gungle George
July 28, 2009, 08:46 AM
Well, if it was me, I'd break out the BBQ gun:)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/Gungle_/rlcompanyusa_2061_38682528.jpg

Cheers,

Gungle George

Gungle George
July 28, 2009, 08:49 AM
Oh, by the way, that's a Tucker Gun Leather rig. I'm waiting on mine.

Cheers,

Gungle George

herohog
July 28, 2009, 01:38 PM
That's class Domina. As to the Iver Johnson, Keep it, love it and show it to everyone you can and let them know why it will always be special to you. Myself, I have a FIE Titan II I will always cherish because of the man who gave it to me. There's personal value then there is commercial value. Sometimes it is the history that makes a thing special and of interest.

shibby
July 28, 2009, 06:29 PM
LOL at guns becoming fashion statements.


Its a slippery slope.

farscott
July 28, 2009, 07:55 PM
Here is my BBQ gun. The first two pictures show it finished. The next seven are in the white. It is a full-house Harrison built on a Caspian frame and slide.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/Caspian1.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/Caspian2.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/Caspian3.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/Caspian4.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/Caspian5.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/Caspian6.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/Caspian7.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/Caspian8.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/Caspian9.jpg

It gets carried in the Sparks holster on the right side of this picture.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/SparksHolsters001.jpg

Mainsail
July 28, 2009, 11:08 PM
Well, you could just get super lucky and the person who sent the invite might read this thread, or you could just ASK THEM YOURSELF.

Domina
July 29, 2009, 03:21 AM
Mainsail:
Aw you had to go there didn't you. True enough, but there will be more people present than the organizer, each with their own tastes. I was interested in the broader perspective this community provides.

Farscott:
That's attractive and simple, I like it.

Gungle George:
Now that is sharp. I had never heard of the "BBQ Gun" before. On the one hand I have a hard time imagining having a gun just for show, but on the other hand there's a certain flavor of civilization and refinement that the BBQ embodies that gives it a sort of irresistable charm in my view.

Gungle George
July 29, 2009, 10:26 AM
Domina,
I don't know about the rest of the country, but in New Mexico and Texas when you put on a BBQ at the ranch most everyone shines up their nicest pistols and best rig to show off to all the other cowboys. There might even be some friendly shooting going on. But that's the way it's always been here.
Cheers,
Gungle George

xwingband
July 29, 2009, 10:36 AM
I thought the "go in heels" comment referred to heeled shoes. The OP's handle is Domina, not Dominus, the female form of master.

In that case, I agree for a woman, unless it was outdoors. Otherwise I think I would agree to get a nice leather holster. I think the idea of a shoulder rig is great for a woman open carrying. Obviously, and thankfully, women's hips are shaped differently and OWB wouldn't be as flattering. For men and as a default an OWB rig with possibly patterns and exotic leather like gunkle george's would be great.

markush
July 30, 2009, 04:55 PM
Oh, by the way, that's a Tucker Gun Leather rig. I'm waiting on mine.

Cheers,

Gungle George

Cheers George, you threw me for a loop and had me thinking I had maybe sleep posted to this thread ;)

I read this thread hoping to get an answer to a question I have had since getting that rig. It's kinda on topic and since you were so kind to show off my rig as a good example of a BBQ rig you opened the door for me to ask it here. :D

Being from WI. the only occasion I have to wear that rig out of the house, is in fact private BBQ's or organized open carry picnic's, walks, ETC. Would it be wise for me to wear such a non retention holster to said picnics or walks?

Mst. Chief
July 30, 2009, 05:14 PM
dress nice, pressed pants, fresh shirt, clean shave...

shiniest pistol holstered in yer beltline in the most formal way

Mags
August 1, 2009, 12:30 AM
How about you just dress like you normally do but tuck your shirt and don't wear an overcoat that would cover your gun. Thus defeating the whole open carry idea. Who cares what kind of holster you have. I use plastic holster for plastic guns like the Glock or XD and leather holsters for metal guns like the 1911 and the Beretta 92 and clones.

mljdeckard
August 1, 2009, 02:09 AM
I think the fact that they included the word 'tasteful' probably means that they have had problems in the past with people showing up dressed like mall ninjas. What I read into the statement is "Don't overdo it."

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