Scary incident at the range today....


PDA






MacTech
July 25, 2009, 05:49 PM
I was at the range today, target shooting with my Savage MKII-G and my NEF single shot, having lots of fun, and discovering that the Savage AccuTrigger has really spoiled me for other triggers (with the exception of my Kimber Custom II), I had less fun with the NEF due to the 5.5 pound trigger pull (verified by the entirely unscientific Zebco DeLiar fish scale test)

Last night, I was testing the triggers on my firearms with the Zebco, the Savage Mark II was a svelte 2.5LB, the NEF, 5.5LB, the Savage 111 .30-06, 4.5LB, the Ruger Mark II, around 3.75-4LB, the Kimber Custom II, around 5LB

I saw a small allen-head screw in the bottom of the trigger, and I remembered the salesman at the gunshop telling me that it was the trigger pull adjustment screw, I had always planned on lightening it up, but had never got around to it, so last night, with Zebco DeLiar in hand, I was able to tweak the trigger down to around 4.5LB

Today, at the range, after I had run through a couple hundred .22LR's, I decided to try my hand at shooting the Kimber at 50 yards, I loaded a mag (8 shot CMC ProMag), racked the slide, and took aim
Bang...Bang...BangBang <tire screeching sound effect>
Hold up here, did this gun just rapid-fire two rounds? yep, I perform a visual inspection of the gun and a field-strip, but can't seem to find any cause....
Reassemble the gun, and load another mag....
Bang...BangBangBang... Whoa there! this was *definitely* a three round burst!, the gun's going back in the case until I figure out what's going wrong here....

The gun was pointing downrange at all times, at the 50 yard backstop, there was no danger of the gun going out of control, I was actually rather amazed at how controllable the gun was during the accidental three round burst, there was no uncontrollable muzzle climb, no muzzle climb at all, maybe because I was using my light target loads (5Gr Win 231 under a 200Gr LSWC)

I packed up my guns, and headed home, called my gunshop and spoke with the gunsmith....

Turns out what I *THOUGHT* was the trigger pull adjustment was *actually* the SEAR ADJUSTMENT!, my little wrench-turning escapade last night set the sear engagement far too light, so, with the gunsmiths help over the phone, I readjusted the sear back to approximately where it was, the trigger's back to 5LB, nice and crisp, (it actually got a little soggy when I backed the sear engagement screw out last night, even though the pull got lighter), and I'll hit the range tomorrow to confirm that the sear has been properly readjusted to the correct setting

You know the saying "A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing" right? well, it's true

Oh, and one of the shooters in the next booth over when I was shooting the .22's had a M1 Carbine, the first time I have seen and held one in real life, and now ME WANTY! (either that or a Garand, I just love the Ping!)

Note to self, don't frak with your gun if you don't know what certain parts do...

If you enjoyed reading about "Scary incident at the range today...." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Tommygunn
July 25, 2009, 06:36 PM
Good thing the BATFE hasn't heard of this yet ... some people have gone to jail for "problems" like this. :neener:

Atleast it didn't blow the gun up!


Yea, we all need to be really sure we know what we're doing when we tinker with our guns.
Leave the tough stuff to the 'smiths!;)

MacTech
July 25, 2009, 06:41 PM
Yeah, that's the reason I quit shooting the Kimber after the second failure, the first one could have been me, double-tapping/bump firing the trigger, but when the gun sent three rounds downrange, that's when I stopped

I have *NO* desire to visit Club Fed

In order to fix the problem, I re-tightened the sear adjustment screw until the trigger would *NOT* release the hammer, then loosened it up a turn and a half, it's pretty much back to where it was originally, last night, when i started frelling with the adjustment screw, I was able to tighten it 1.5 turns to full lock, so I figure if I returned it to full lock and back out 1.5 turns, it *should* be back where it was originally

stillaftermath
July 25, 2009, 06:50 PM
Had a similar situation my last outing with a Nylon 66. It would cycle the bolt but was not cocking, resulting in a dead trigger. Manually ejecting the round then firing again worked, so I was fiddling with it trying to figure that out, and then I swore the damn thing fired twice, but I wasn't sure. Fiddled with it some more and kicked the tires on the thing, and decided hey, maybe it's the ammo? Loaded it up with some Federal Auto-Match and tried again. Fire ... Manual recock... fire...manual recock... firefirefirefirefirefirefire.

Hrm.

First time I've ever encountered that, so I asked for advice on here in the gunsmithing forum, and the consensus there was a broken sear.

Then I looked at tear-down manual for the Nylon 66. Then I decided f-that. That thing looks like a BASTARD to work on. I found a guy on another forum who was trying to replace a sear, and he was basically saying, "What the hell, I need three hands with 2 pairs of needle nose pliers and goddamn fairy assistant to get this thing back together!"

So I put it aside. That'll be a project for a long weekend when I've got nothing else to do and feel like getting frustrated. :)

lobo9er
July 25, 2009, 07:09 PM
does anyone everthink feds post some of this stuff trying to get people to try stupid things to break the law or "show us your ammo stash"

Keoni
July 25, 2009, 07:30 PM
Thought that screw in the trigger was for trigger overtravel adjustment. Don't see how adjusting that screw alone could cause multiple rounds being fired with one trigger pull.

KenWP
July 25, 2009, 08:03 PM
I have a Bruno in 22 Hornet with double set triggers and if you have the safe on and pull the trigger it fires when you let the safe off again. I have had to use the safe as a trigger once because of that. I am told that the gun was actually made that way. Anybody got any ideas if that is right or not.

ServiceSoon
July 25, 2009, 08:36 PM
I encourage you to search for Olofson on this message board and then reflect upon your post.

ROBBY.1911
July 25, 2009, 08:46 PM
the overtravel adjustment screw has nothing to do with trigger pull or weight. the disconnect could be hanging up or the sear-hammer interface is way less square than would be desireable. don't listen to your "gunsmith." buy yourself something like the EGW action kit-sear, hammer, disconnect and sear spring, and all your problems will disappear. it's all drop-in, i wish i were there, i would do it for you free of charge.

j-easy
July 25, 2009, 09:35 PM
were you shooting a henry .22 golden boy this afternoon?

stillaftermath
July 25, 2009, 11:44 PM
I encourage you to search for Olofson on this message board and then reflect upon your post.
How exactly does the Olofson case apply to acknowledging a slam-fire malfunction happened? Olofson knew the gun he had assembled could slam-fire under certain conditions, transferred the weapon to another party, who then intentionally tried to replicate those conditions (successfully, and attracting the attention of the range officer.) It was not a case of "Whoa hell, it just slam-fired on me. I'll disable the weapon for right now and fix it as soon as I get a chance." and then talking about it later on a forum.

"Spirit of the law" still applies. If you think the Olofson case applies to slam-fires, you should dispose of any automatic weapons you own, immediately. And I don't mean sell them, I mean destroy them. Because at any moment, any one of them could become a machine gun. If you sold them, by god, you could be transferring an unregistered NFA weapon! And you'd never know! If it DOES slam-fire on you, and you can't fix it yourself, and take it to a smith to get it fixed, you'd be guilty of transferring a full auto weapon to another person! Or it could happen in front of an informant or agent! If you even ask anybody for help, you're admitting to a felony!

It's paranoia. Any jury reading posts like this would see that most people posting them are asking for help in *stopping* the problem, or warning others of the scenario that caused it. A jury judged that Olofson's intent was to create and transfer a burst or fully automatic weapon to another person.

MacTech
July 26, 2009, 12:03 AM
Yes, to clarify, my OP was a "whoa, I never expected this to happen, how do I *STOP* it from happening" post, *IT WAS NOT* a "this is way cool, my gun can autofire!" post

I took the gun back to the gun store and had the gunsmith check it out after I returned the overtravel/sear adjustment screw to it's original position, he gave it a full once-over, replaced the hammer spring housing (which was cracked, not related to this failure) and said it looks safe, and the problem should not recur, if it does, he wants me to bring it back and he'll replace the neccesary parts under the store's warranty (not bad for a used gun I've had for over a year, and yes, he knows it's used and how long I had it, he'll still repair it under warranty)

just to clarify the intent of this post once and for all and put it down in black and white...

I DO NOT want this gun to rapid fire, if it does, that means that parts have failed and must be replaced to return the firearm to PROPER, SAFE, and LEGAL operation

Tim the student
July 26, 2009, 12:07 AM
Thanks for sharing.

If you enjoyed reading about "Scary incident at the range today...." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!