Social encounter...


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Dulvarian
July 27, 2009, 11:58 PM
So what do you say to a guy picking your brass up about as soon as it hits the ground? Just showed up on an outdoor range today, no kidding was firing through my first magazine and some guy was already there picking up my brass. I have had guys ask me if I cared before (before ammo was so hard to come by, mind you) and I hadn't decided to reload yet. No big deal.

I was kind of outraged, and kind of disgusted.

Lol, I have some questions on something better to catch brass, but I think I'll just move over to another forum for that one.

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kingpin008
July 28, 2009, 12:03 AM
You look at him and say "I'd appreciate it if you put my brass back where you found it."

If he gets the picture, that's great. If not, it might be necessary to use a little bit stronger language.

Sometimes people assume that others won't want their spent brass, and sometimes they pick up someone else's by mistake when policing their own. There's no need to get snippy right out of the gate, ya know? Of course like I said, if the fella doesn't want to listen and respect his boundaries, he might need it spelled out a little clearer. :rolleyes:

MattTheHat
July 28, 2009, 12:04 AM
I'd say something like "Thanks for picking that up for me, how did you know my back's been giving me trouble?" And then hold out my hands.


-Matt

bigfatdave
July 28, 2009, 12:08 AM
Are you sure he wasn't trying to pick up his own brass before you dropped more of yours on top of it? Just a possibility.
If he was scavenging your brass without asking, and as you fired no less, that is very odd/rude/dumb ... I make a point not to get in the personal space of someone actively shooting.
If he was trying to get his own ... still odd, he could have asked you, or are you particularly imposing/intimidating?

Birdmang
July 28, 2009, 12:10 AM
The last time I went to a range some old man was walking around picking up all the brass...I let it go. Ten minutes later he came by with everyones brass in zip lock bags and set it next to where I was sitting. I was so astonished!

NavyLCDR
July 28, 2009, 12:11 AM
Dulvarian,

I just wish you would have shot more of the calibers I reload!

:D

UniversalFrost
July 28, 2009, 12:11 AM
yeah had a guy picking up my 5.7 brass one time and I politely told him i reload and that was my brass. he pretended not to hear. I then walked up to him got in his face and switch back into drill sergeant mode.

he gave me my brass back. Also, i am a regular at that range and he was not. He was asked to leave after the RO came up to see what the yelling was about (all on my side as the guy was a bit taken back by a dude with a crew cut and a SOCEUR shirt one (nice graphics of our crest and the beret on it with a skull) getting nose to nose and screaming to drop the f'ing brass and keep his hands off my brass.

my buddy said I should have been a little more level headed, but i was having a bad day and when the guy pretended to not hear me that just flipped the switch and I went off on him. next time i was shooting and he showed up he went to the total opposite side of the range. i just smiled and waved to him.

The Annoyed Man
July 28, 2009, 12:16 AM
So what do you say to a guy picking your brass up about as soon as it hits the ground?

I told him, politely, but firmly, "That's mine! Please leave it there. I'll be picking it up myself when I'm done." and then I suggested that he might want to ask first the next time he tried tried to do that to someone. He did apologize, and I didn't need to pursue it further. Some people are just clueless, and they have the manners and ethics of a Feringi. They're the same folks who will sit on your motorcycle without asking your permission.

dobrzemetal
July 28, 2009, 12:21 AM
brass vulchers, every range has one. I told him before I shoot that he can have mine.

flyboy1788
July 28, 2009, 12:31 AM
yeah had a guy picking up my 5.7 brass one time and I politely told him i reload and that was my brass. he pretended not to hear. I then walked up to him got in his face and switch back into drill sergeant mode.

he gave me my brass back. Also, i am a regular at that range and he was not. He was asked to leave after the RO came up to see what the yelling was about (all on my side as the guy was a bit taken back by a dude with a crew cut and a SOCEUR shirt one (nice graphics of our crest and the beret on it with a skull) getting nose to nose and screaming to drop the f'ing brass and keep his hands off my brass.

Asking him firmly(loudly) but nicely but probobly would have worked too. If someone came up to me and got in my face and started to make a scene in a public place, I sure as hell wouldnt be in a big hurry to give them what they wanted. Then again, I wouldnt be "that guy" and take another guys brass. All of my jobs have been jobs that involve dealing with people, or "sheeple" as I like to refer to them. In general, I have found that people respond better when being talked to with respect. YMMV

halfded
July 28, 2009, 07:31 AM
That's why I shoot revolvers! :neener: They can pick up all the .22 cases they want, that's all I drop.

Range vultures should be considered a game bird..or a pest species.

edSky
July 28, 2009, 07:47 AM
Yeah, we sometimes have an old-timer picking up brass at the public range. Never talks to anyone, just sweeps. If he notices you picking up your own he'll cut you a wide berth. When I pick up my own and see others leaving theirs I'll ask.

At first I used to be bothered and chase after all my brass before the brass-rats would get it. I spent more time being distracted. Now I'll shoot five, hunt for my five, rinse and repeat. It slows things down and stretches out 100 rounds to a nice leisurely pace.

If you are really concerned, mark your brass with a sharpie or something. Just a dot or a mark should do. Also keep track of what your shooting. I've shot and collected next to another guy doing the same and we were both shooting .45s. I picked up his if I found it and handed it over, and he did the same - all without much effort. Cooperating sometimes just happens naturally. It depends on the players.

Nate1778
July 28, 2009, 07:50 AM
I would also like to reiterate about not becoming a range vulture. I was shooting at an indoor next to a guy that was also shooting 9mm and he left with a ton of brass on the ground. I still felt wrong about picking it up with out permission from the range. Went out to the front desk and asked, guy looked at me like "Wow, that's a question I have never been asked". Guy said politely "sure, just don't over do it", paused for a second and said, "Thank you for asking". Even though the majority of us believe range brass on the ground is fair game, the range makes money on it one way or the other. Its always good to get permission from the one in charge to do so. Other than that, most the locals at my local range are pretty understanding.

I was at the receiving end of the shells on a .45 and the guy was obviously a reloader. I finished up my session and started sweeping up the range brass around me. You could tell he was hesitant in telling me it was his cause he had been pelting me with it all session, nothing he could really do. But you could tell he thought I was a vulture. I separated his brass and took it over to him, he said thanks, and apologized for the interruption of flying brass. He ended up paying for my range time, and I was appreciative.

danprkr
July 28, 2009, 08:08 AM
I put down a tarp around my firing station, and shoot five, hunt for my five, rinse and repeat.

Cuts down on the issue. Of course I HATE indoor ranges, and only go to one when I have no other choice. Last time I was at an indoor range I let my brass go, but then it was mostly going in front of the line, and I couldn't have gotten it anyway.

oneounceload
July 28, 2009, 09:22 AM
I would have had handed him my coffee can or old cloth bag and said, "They go in this one, THANKS!"

noskilz
July 28, 2009, 10:26 AM
Some people are just clueless, and they have the manners and ethics of a Ferengi. Too funny.
Did he look like one of these guys?

Mt Shooter
July 28, 2009, 11:05 AM
If you are really concerned, mark your brass with a sharpie or something

Doesnt do any good I had a Brass Rat still pick it up. I stopped shooting and looked at him....Oh did you want this, he said. Yes its mine and i want it. A little later on the other end of the line, where no one had been all morning, there was a lot of 45 brass. I started to pick it up he saw what I was doing and cut me off and started picking it up. Hows that for RUDE.

DHJenkins
July 28, 2009, 11:09 AM
Our range has rules posted against picking up anyone's brass but your own...

ghoster
July 28, 2009, 11:24 AM
pinch his rear and wink when he looks up. :eek:;):p

he will never come close to you again. :evil:

messing with a dorks mine is lots of fun.:)

tcsnake
July 28, 2009, 12:15 PM
Had an LAR Grizzly in .45 win Mag that ejected brass HARD. some spectators behind me got pelted and after that everyone stayed away from "the crazy man with the hand cannon" including the vultures.

hardluk1
July 28, 2009, 12:35 PM
I made a brass catcher that straps to my arm and catches my brass from a 22 to a 40 that i shot . It wieghs only 5 oz's and velcro's to my arm. catches all and can just rotare my wrist to dump out brass after each mag.

Flame Red
July 28, 2009, 02:52 PM
I have kind of a story going to the polite and helpful other end of this.

There was a true gentleman who passed away some time ago that was a fixture at the local range. A former national pistol champion and multiple time state champion, and WWII vet. He was part of the greatest generation and his depression upbringing always stood out. He was always very polite and asked if he could have our brass, and would politely wait around till we were done and collect it. He never understood how we could afford to shoot factory ammo. Every year the range would do berm maintenance and he was always standing by with his setup to recover just about every ounce of lead that hit that berm. He would melt it down and recast it. I think that if he could make his own primers he would have.

He was the ultimate in recyling all way before Al the phony Gore came along.

What a great guy. He would spend countless hours mentoring the up and comming shooters. Very missed.

Tim the student
July 28, 2009, 03:37 PM
I made a brass catcher that straps to my arm and catches my brass from a 22 to a 40 that i shot . It wieghs only 5 oz's and velcro's to my arm. catches all and can just rotare my wrist to dump out brass after each mag.

Can you post pics or a more detailed write up please?

Flynt
July 28, 2009, 04:56 PM
I haven't encountered this particular situation, but I've developed a general rule when calling somebody out: Start with a question, such as "I'm sure you didn't realize it, but did you know that you were really tailgating me back there?" (or whatever) My theory is that this doesn't set up an immediate confrontation and allows the other guy to back down while saving face: "Oh, I didn't realize that. Sorry." (Even though they knew exactly what they were doing.)

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 28, 2009, 06:20 PM
I sure hope the air-conditioner-stealing methheads don't figure out that there's brass on them thar ranges.

Brass Catcher: Deep cardboard box laid on its side. Rock or brick weighing it down. Cheap & good.

Avenger
July 28, 2009, 06:38 PM
I had a guy trying to vulture my .30'06 brass the first time I took the Garand to the range. I called him on it, and he said something along the lines of, "Oh, I thought mine had bounced down here too..." He leaves and sits down at a table 30 feet away with an AR-15. Yeah, it's really easy to confuse .223 and .30'06 brass.....
So I've got a homebuilt catcher now, a .50cal can with a piece of sheetmetal to direct them into it. Three minutes with tin-snips to cut it out, and 30 seconds to put a couple spot-welds to shape it.

Dulvarian
July 28, 2009, 07:06 PM
Yeah, I am positive that he wasn't collecting his brass. It was an outdoor range and there was no one there when we got there. He wasn't shooting, and didn't shoot.

I can't see any reason that I would be intimidating. I'm 5'8" and 170 pounds. The two friends I was with and I are all active military, so fairly clean cut and well dressed.

I saw him from the corner or my eye while I was shooting. He knew he was sharking my brass, because he would stand up straight any time I was not shooting. He was also cupping brass into his hand so that I couldn't see it. Like a child caught with something they shouldn't have.

I don't remember the words that passed between us, but they were fairly pleasant. I got done with the magazine I was shooting and then went and started to pick mine up. Then he handed me the brass he was holding and left.

I have had many people ask me for brass over the years, and usually I let them have it. I only recently decided to start reloading my own, mostly because I am sick of the ridiculously high prices and even more ridiculous lack of availability.

The biggest problem I have collecting is the distance that my guns throw brass. My Glock 21 throws about ten feet right and five or six back. My SIG 556 throws them sometimes close to 20 feet right and ten forward. I was taking pictures and a few video clips at the range and you can see the brass zinging past the camera. I got a few in the air, too.

Out of the 200 .223/5.56 rounds I fired, I managed to collect 160 cases. 74 out of 100 .45, and 64 out of I don't know 9mm. I did pick up a handful more of 12 gauge cases than we shot. Again, there was no one there when we got there, so I'm not even remotely implying that I was trying to scavenge them from anyone without asking. I also ended up with 15 .40's. I also ended up with 10 .38 supers, though those were technically nickel? (I wasn't the only one picking up, though I know I only picked up .223, .45, and 9mm. One of the three of us hadn't even handled a firearm in five years. I hereby forgive him.)

TOTC
July 28, 2009, 07:06 PM
I only collect after someone has left at a public range. I've also been handed 357 and 38 spl brass, and thanked the shooter profusely. If I see someone chucking brass my way, I generally police it up and hand it to them. That does two things, I introduce myself to them and sometimes they state they don't want the brass so now I know.

Cosmoline
July 28, 2009, 07:42 PM
I don't take other people's brass, except when it hits me on the head. Then I figure I own it.

You'll know the economy has really hit bottom when some loon is up on the berm digging out the lead. I remember hearing a story about certain poor untouchables in India who will run out to grab the inert projectiles at the military artillery range. They get killed frequently, but don't care.

rainbowbob
July 28, 2009, 07:50 PM
...when the guy pretended to not hear me that just flipped the switch and I went off on him.

Universal Frost: Uhhh...you were at a shooting range. Was the offender by any chance wearing hearing protection at the time? Just askin'.

cchris
July 28, 2009, 09:52 PM
I think I'd just start with something nice: "Hey, I'm trying to save my brass since I reload, so do you mind if you leave it there for me? Thanks."

Generally, there's no problem at the unmanned outdoor ranges. From the indoor ranges I've been at, I don't mind if some of my brass bounces over to the next lane and someone picks it up . In fact, it wasn't a big concern this past week 'cause the guy next to me was watching me trying to figure out how to hold a handgun (a newly-purchased stainless Beretta 92 in 9x19 which was quite nice).

If there's really an issue with the vultures, just stand there waiting for them to resume their business before you start shooting. If they're just waiting for you to shoot to grab your brass, just make them wait even longer.

TexasRedneck
July 28, 2009, 10:17 PM
As a long-time reloader, I guess I've gotten used to 'em. When they come into my area, I look them in the eye with a smile on my face and say "Sorry - but I reload, so these aren't available!" I have NEVER had someone ignore it, and have actually had a few come back and dump 45/380/40 brass at my station because they noticed I was shooting same, and they were collecting a different caliber.
Then again, I spread a large (12 x 12 or so) tarp out when at the range - takes NO time to grab 90% of the brass, ID's "my" area, and also helps me to spot the "fringe" brass.

ChCx2744
July 29, 2009, 01:17 AM
I don't reload, so If they wanna pick up my brass me my guest...If I did reload, however, that may seem a bit rude IMHO. I would just tell them that "That's my brass and I am going to use it again; please leave it where you found it. Thanks."

MacTech
July 29, 2009, 03:17 AM
I've been lucky so far, at my range, my brass-related "social encounters" have been like this;

another shooter in another stall shooting the same caliber as me, I.E. a .45 caliber semiauto) Me; "ahh, the fun of a semiauto, you get to put lead downrange, and have a scavenger hunt afterwards <picking up brass> here, I think these are yours, they look new and shiny (my reloads generally have dingy brass, shiny brass doesn't shoot any better than aged brass)

50% of the time, the other shooter thanks me for policing his brass, the other 50% he says I can take it as he doesn't reload, if he doesn't reload, we invariably have a short chat about it, many shooters at my range are starting to get curious about reloading

another encounter that's slightly different; If the shooter in the other stall sees that I'm shooting reloads, many times they'll offer me their brass, even if it's a caliber I don't shoot, in those situations, I reccomend they look into reloading themselves, I usually decline their offer of brass in a caliber I don't shoot, but thank them for their offer

I figure that I've done my share of brass donations to other shooters before I got into reloading, back when I had my 9mm, I was always offering my once-fired brass to fellow reloaders, and when I shot trap, I always offered the empty hulls to my co-shooters

thankfully, my range has no Brass Vultures that I know of....

Sav .250
July 29, 2009, 09:31 AM
you got to speak up............

Superlite27
July 29, 2009, 09:41 AM
Target of opportunity.

I would have tried to bounce my ejected brass off his forehead.

hardluk1
July 29, 2009, 12:21 PM
Tim might in a couple days ,will see. Not great with the pictures posting . Got slapped around for posting to large a picture here once.

wvshooter
July 29, 2009, 01:52 PM
I wouldn't have gone off like a drill sergeant but I most certainly would have stopped the pilfering. It's amazing how low some can stoop.

Joe Demko
July 29, 2009, 02:22 PM
yeah had a guy picking up my 5.7 brass one time and I politely told him i reload and that was my brass. he pretended not to hear. I then walked up to him got in his face and switch back into drill sergeant mode.

he gave me my brass back. Also, i am a regular at that range and he was not. He was asked to leave after the RO came up to see what the yelling was about (all on my side as the guy was a bit taken back by a dude with a crew cut and a SOCEUR shirt one (nice graphics of our crest and the beret on it with a skull) getting nose to nose and screaming to drop the f'ing brass and keep his hands off my brass.

Being a shouty guy wearing a crew cut and a shirt with an emblem on it worked out for you okay that day. In the long run, I expect being more level headed will work out better for you. I also expect it was entirely your shouting that won the day for you, BTW. Crewcuts are a very popular hairstyle among men of all ages and professions right now. He probably didn't even look at your shirt, much less get intimidated by its mighty graphics.

rp4130
July 29, 2009, 02:27 PM
The range that I frequent actually has a rule stating you can't pick up any brass, unless you lay a sheet or a tarp down. I believe they use the proceeds to help maintain the range. I am fine with the policy but think that if you have a yearly membership you should be able to police your own brass, tarp or no tarp.

As for vultures they tend to be non-existent due to the rules.

stillaftermath
July 29, 2009, 07:45 PM
I always ask. Last time I was out, there was a guy with an AR at the table next to me with an ejector that seemed to be aimed at my forehead and my fiance's cleavage the entire time. I made some joke about it, and asked if he was collecting his brass, he laughed and said to keep it, least he could do and maybe I wouldn't sue him for getting my burns treated. ;) Later we got to talking again and he let me put a couple rounds through his rifle so I could see how the ACOG glass he had on it worked, which is the first time I've played with one of those. :)

UniversalFrost
July 29, 2009, 09:08 PM
Universal Frost: Uhhh...you were at a shooting range. Was the offender by any chance wearing hearing protection at the time? Just askin'.

yeah he was wearing his muff on the top of his head. so unless his ears were about 5 inches high and way forward I doubt he didn't hear me. anyway, only flipped because of previous run in's with him.

Being a shouty guy wearing a crew cut and a shirt with an emblem on it worked out for you okay that day. In the long run, I expect being more level headed will work out better for you. I also expect it was entirely your shouting that won the day for you, BTW. Crewcuts are a very popular hairstyle among men of all ages and professions right now. He probably didn't even look at your shirt, much less get intimidated by its mighty graphics.

not all guys wear high and tight skin on the sides hair cuts, plus we were on post (ft. huachuca) and this guy was a civilian using the range (folks from off post can use the combined 100 meter range on the weekends since the public range is about a 20 minute drive from town. he knew who i was. I normally am level headed,but folks like that piss me off. that is when my drill sergeant mode kicks back in (too bad I wasn't wearing my hat, I loved it where the brim would hit the kids heads and that would just make them freeze).

anyway, not normal to yell at a guy and I would not do it again (unless that guy showed up)

Erik M
July 29, 2009, 09:43 PM
Too funny.
Did he look like one of these guys?
Rule of Aquisition number 45: If the brass hits the ground its fair game.


The range I used to go to had rules that stated you couldnt be within 5 feet of anyone firing a weapon, they would have nabbed this guy if he was crawling around on his hands an knees next to you tring to get your spent brass.

TexasRedneck
July 29, 2009, 09:48 PM
If I was firing an' he was THAT close, it wouldn't have taken a RO ta take care of things - that's why I have size 12 boots....

Mr. Bojangles
July 30, 2009, 07:49 AM
All you really had to do was wink and call him "sweetheart."

Of course, in some places that plan could backfire on you. :eek:

Grey_Mana
July 30, 2009, 01:41 PM
Somebody takes your brass, keep an eye on all your stuff. Somebody willing to take what doesn't belong to him might be tempted by your gun or that bag behind you.

As a side-story, I was at the range (pre-panic), and decided to sweep up the handgun brass and dump it in the bucket - it was a tripping hazard. Saw a bunch of live rounds on the ground, and figured out that the shooter was racking his slide each time (didn't know any better).

larry_minn
July 30, 2009, 03:34 PM
` Someone gets in my face yelling/wanting to tap me in face with his hat. That really won't get me on on my good side. It sure won't get my respect. You might even get me scared of you and your buddies. Thats not the best thing in the world for any of us.
What would be even worse (for you) is if they have a camera with decent detail on fireing line... You got to be able to control your anger esp when holding firearms...

Yrs ago I got so dang much brass I could have started selling it. The indoor range I used to go to got empty fairly early. Often I was last shooter. So I helped with clean up, RO said I could grab any brass/etc I wanted. (also got lots of factory cardboard boxes with partisions) I manly took once fired brass.

Whats fun is to shoot some blazer alum when there is a brass rat. "You can have the grey ones I want my brass" Most folks are easy to work with if you start off polite. I often give my .40S&W brass and get a caliber I reload.

TexasRedneck
July 30, 2009, 03:45 PM
I think the key here is ettiquette on BOTH sides - if you're not prepared to be polite initially, then you should likely just stay back......

thorazine
July 30, 2009, 06:11 PM
I've only had this happen twice.

Two different individuals -- two different occasions.


Both while I was shooting and less than two feet away from me.


The first time -- I did not have to get loud -- brass was returned and he stayed away.

The second time -- the guy was on the ground reaching between my legs...

I backed up and stepped on his hand (maybe on purpose).


He yelled.

I yelled.

RO came over.

He yelled at the RO.

RO realized what he was doing and kicked him out after two minutes of bickering.


Now I just try to only shoot during off peak times.

rritter
July 30, 2009, 06:40 PM
A while ago I took my Swede Mauser out for some exercise, and happened to set up next to a guy who was also shooting a Swede. After a few rounds, he noticed that I wasn't picking up my brass and asked if he could have it. After I pointed out that it was milsurp and Berdan primed, he didn't seem all that interested any more :-)

VegasOPM
July 31, 2009, 12:44 AM
I have found that a big smile and a hand out, along with "thanks for picking that up for me" works every time. No threat, no anger, no question that I want it back.

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