What semi auto pistols have "fixed" barrels?


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waldonbuddy
July 28, 2009, 04:15 PM
I have owned two, a Desert Eagle, and a Walther P22. Both had fixed barrels, and to me, they were very accurate. I know that is subjective, and I dont want to start a why do you want this, kind of thread. Its just my preference.

I know that I can get revolvers with fixed barrels and I do own a S&W 500 that I enjoy when I can afford to shoot it.

I just wondered which semi's have fixed besides the above mentioned and the 44 Automag, and Wildey.

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Zoogster
July 28, 2009, 04:23 PM
Most blowback designs, which are ususaly limited to small calibers.


Far fewer larger caliber pistols.
Many carbine weapons that are in reality rifle or carbine platforms legaly produced under federal law as pistols would as well.
An AK or AR pistol for example, though there is many others.
Many PDW pistol type weapons as well, though many are legaly SBR or AOWs. Such as semi-auto versions of the HK MP7 or MP5K.
If you can locate such weapons with no butt stock, that legally are meant to be fired with a single hand, and have no forward grip, and are produced as pistols from the factory in compliance with federal law, then they certainly would have fixed barrels and legaly be just handguns.

rcmodel
July 28, 2009, 04:25 PM
All blow-back operated pistols in .22RF, .25, .32, , 380 ACP, and 9mm MAK have fixed barrels. But except for the .22RF target pistols, none will be winning any accuracy contests!

Very few higher power pistols (9mm & up) have fixed barrels because they must have a locked-breach action, and a short recoil Browning design moving barrel is the simplest way to do that.

Some other fixed barrel firearms in larger calibers include the German Luger, (toggle locked) and Wildy & DE, (gas operated rotating bolt).

There are a few other more obscure obsolete guns, but you won't find many modern designs in larger then .380 ACP power level.

rc

earlthegoat2
July 28, 2009, 04:26 PM
I know any blowback gun does so that leaves,

HK P7 and the variants
Walther PP and PPK
Sig 230 and 232
NAA Guardian 32 and 380
Luger
Broomhandle Mauser
Ruger MK I, II, and III
Makarov
Browning BDA
Beretta Cheetahs
PA-63
Wildey
AMT Automag 44 might, not sure, might be long recoil operated
CZ 82 and 83
dang near any 22 caliber
Seecamp 32 and 380
Most Saturday Night Special Gun Valley offerings (Lorcin, Davis, Cobra, Raven, Jimenez, Jennings)

rcmodel
July 28, 2009, 04:34 PM
You got a whole lot of blow-back .32's & .380's on your list.

rc

earlthegoat2
July 28, 2009, 04:38 PM
:o;)

Ash
July 28, 2009, 05:23 PM
The Luger is not blow back and the barrel, while mated to the slide, moves during recoil. Therefore, it cannot be considered fixed as it is designed to move and most certainly does move. But if you mean that straight-line operation is required, then that would include the Berretta 92 and 951, the Walther P38, the Finnish and Swedish Lahti, to name but a few.

Ash

lechiffre
July 28, 2009, 05:55 PM
hk p7

hi-point

Frightener 88
July 28, 2009, 06:02 PM
Ruger 22/45

waldonbuddy
July 28, 2009, 06:11 PM
Here is another question.

Which type is more accurate, and why?
I know my DE was right on the money if you could hold it steady, shooting it on a bench was very accurate for me {didn't like the factory "combat" front sights}, and my wife's P22 is also dead on target {I know alot of people would argue me on that, but I shoot well with it}.
I have two S&W semi's with floating barrels. One is a 669, 9mm. The other is a 4556 in a 45.
Both S&W are great pistols, but don't hold accuracy shooting from the bench. Don't get me wrong, I love both my SW semi's they are great, reliable, and I carry the 9mm most everyday.
It would seem to me that a fixed barrel on any gun would be more accurate since the barrel isn't wobbling in the receiver as the bullet goes through.

I know that recoil will move the whole gun fixed, or not, but it just seems to me that the wobble of the barrel would occur sooner than movement of your wrist, etc.

Frank Ettin
July 28, 2009, 06:36 PM
...It would seem to me that a fixed barrel on any gun would be more accurate since the barrel isn't wobbling in the receiver as the bullet goes through...Nonetheless, a well set up 1911 can be amazingly accurate. Think about some 1911s set up for top level Bullseye competition. Les Baer offers 1911s guaranteed to group 1.5 inches at 50 yards. Folks I trust who own such Les Baers have reported them to be completely reliable.

Then again, look at post #4. A number of the guns on that list aren't particularly noted for accuracy.

doubs43
July 28, 2009, 07:24 PM
The Benelli B-76 & B-80 in 9mm & 7.65 Parabellum respectfully are true fixed barrel pistols. They use a swinging link much like the P-38 except the link is above the barrel rather than below it. The Benelli pistols are quite accurate, reliable and well made.

Link to a picture of the B-80 in .30 Luger: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/benelli%20b%2080-03.jpg

waldonbuddy
July 28, 2009, 09:07 PM
Nice looking pistol.........B80

waldonbuddy
July 28, 2009, 09:10 PM
When I was considering a Wildey 475 I did a quite a bit of research on them.

They, as noted, have a fixed barrel, and are supposed to be extremely

accurate, just as the Automag {when both actually work, that is}.

oneounceload
July 28, 2009, 09:59 PM
The P7 is one of the most accurate stock pistols around - fixed barrel and all......

Jim Watson
July 28, 2009, 10:04 PM
The Sokolovsky Automaster had a fixed barrel, running in a form of retarded blowback. It was meant for 50 yard bullseye shooting, if you could afford one of the 50 made.

http://sokolovskyautomaster.com/

Landpimp
July 28, 2009, 10:05 PM
HK P9S, uses a barrel that is fixed(but not like most, and dont ask me to splane it) its one of the best 9mm to put a can on and even the most basic version will shoot like darn near no other(even the P7)

Landpimp
July 28, 2009, 10:06 PM
oh and dont forget the HK SP89....its a pistol

Ash
July 28, 2009, 10:15 PM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Astra 300, 400, & 600.

Mags
July 28, 2009, 11:09 PM
Walther P22 and it looks and feels like a toy, I know it was mentioned in the first posts.

jsbethel
July 28, 2009, 11:31 PM
The Steyr GB 9mm is a very accurate fixed barrel design using a gas delay system which produces very mild recoil. The HK VP70Z 9mm is a true blowback fixed barrel design which can be very accurate once you get used to the heavy trigger.

Landpimp
July 29, 2009, 11:51 AM
forgot about the GB...I have one its a great shooter, unlike the VP70...which has a 20lb trigger, but you can sorta get use to it

svtruth
July 29, 2009, 12:45 PM
a High Standard .22 and a Kel-Tec PLR.

Billy Shears
July 29, 2009, 12:58 PM
Let's not forget the Korriphila HSP-701 (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg176-e.htm), a pistol so expensive it makes a Sig P210 look cheaply priced. It uses a fixed barrel, and a delayed blowback mechanism that uses a roller lock to create a mechanical disadvantage that the recoil has to overcome to force the slide to the rear. By all accounts the system works well and is reliable, and the pistols are reputedly very accurate, owing to the high standard of manufacture (and limited production). At $5000 a throw, I'll never own one to say from personal experience though.

waldonbuddy
July 29, 2009, 01:26 PM
I forgot about this one, and its a good bargan. CZ52, my cousin has one. I shot it last Dec. and it was very good, except the sights take a bit of getting used to...........
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg58-e.htm

rcmodel
July 29, 2009, 01:29 PM
Which type is more accurate, and why? I think you are comparing apples & oranges.

Most of the center-fire semi-autos on the market are in effect, loose military pistols that are being sold commercially. They are loose to insure function when they are full of dirt & sand. And they have heavy triggers to insure safety. Both these features detract from accuracy.
The accuracy standards on them are not held as high as hunting guns like the Wildy, Auto-Mag, or target guns like the Colt Gold Cup or Les Baer custom gun.

As someone else noted, a 1911 has a link controlled moving barrel.
But it only moves after the gun is unlocked, and the bullet is already long gone.
When it is in battery, there is no movement at all, period.

The fact remains that a match grade 1911 with a moving barrel has won more NRA bullseye pistol matches in the last 75 years then all other handguns combined.

A loose GI grade 1911 will shot 6" groups at 50 yards.
A match grade 1911 will put all the bullets in one ragged hole.

rc

Billy Shears
July 29, 2009, 01:48 PM
I think you are comparing apples & oranges.

Most of the center-fire semi-autos on the market are in effect, loose military pistols that are being sold commercially. They are loose to insure function when they are full of dirt & sand. And they have heavy triggers to insure safety. Both these features detract from accuracy.
The accuracy standards on them are not held as high as hunting guns like the Wildy, Auto-Mag, or target guns like the Colt Gold Cup or Les Baer custom gun.

As someone else noted, a 1911 has a link controlled moving barrel.
But it only moves after the gun is unlocked, and the bullet is already long gone.
When it is in battery, there is no movement at all, period.

The fact remains that a match grade 1911 with a moving barrel has won more NRA bullseye pistol matches in the last 75 years then all other handguns combined.

A loose GI grade 1911 will shot 6" groups at 50 yards.
A match grade 1911 will put all the bullets in one ragged hole.

rc
True, true.

Theoretically, a fixed barrel is more intrinsicly accurate, since there is possibly a small variation in the position of a moving barrel each time the gun returns to battery after each shot. However, in practical terms, a really well built pistol with a moving barrel, such as a match-grade 1911 for example, will have more potential accuracy, even so, than any human marksman is fully capable of exploiting.

rcmodel
July 29, 2009, 02:04 PM
I might add that a fixed barrel does not mean the slide is tight & without movement on the frame.
And the sights are attached to the slide, not the fixed barrel.

A fixed barrel also does not insure you are getting good well defined sights on the gun.
Or a really great trigger pull.

All of which do more for intrinsic accuracy then a fixed barrel.

rc

doubs43
July 29, 2009, 02:27 PM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Astra 300, 400, & 600.

That's probably because their barrels are not truly "fixed" but are held in place by lugs that slot into recesses. The barrels are easily separated from the slide and frame for cleaning while a true fixed barrel remains attached to the frame and can not be separated.

Just One Shot
July 29, 2009, 02:34 PM
Bersa's

waldonbuddy
July 29, 2009, 08:13 PM
Which variation of the 1911 has good accuracy for under 1k, or would it be best to just build one myself? I know if built by me there would be no warrenty which could be the breaking point of that idea.
I might just give one a try.

Frank Ettin
July 29, 2009, 08:35 PM
Which variation of the 1911 has good accuracy for under 1k,...With a 1911, or any other type of pistol, accuracy will vary from example to example. No two guns, even of the same make and model, will be 100% dimensionally identical to the ten thousandths of an inch. In one, the tolerances may stack in the direction of tighter and more consistent lock up and thus greater accuracy. In another example the tolerances may stack in the other direction. Each might be considered reasonably accurate, but one may be notably more accurate.

And of course, ammunition may have something to do with things. Some guns are more accurate with one type of ammunition than another.

If you're looking for a good, reasonably accurate 1911, a Springfield, Kimber or Colt would probably fit the bill. On average, they'd be pretty comparable, although one example of one may be more accurate than a particular example of another.

But if you're looking for ultimate accuracy, you'll need to do what Bullseye competitors do. You'll need to find a good, sound 1911 to start and then have it tuned and fitted for maximum accuracy. And that sort of custom work would exceed your budget.

Travlin
July 29, 2009, 09:00 PM
Ash said - reply 7

"The Luger is not blow back and the barrel, while mated to the slide, moves during recoil. Therefore, it cannot be considered fixed as it is designed to move and most certainly does move."

This puzzles me. The Luger has a toggle and not a slide. I also thought the barrel was fixed to the frame and did not move at all after firing. Please explain.

Gryffydd
July 29, 2009, 09:11 PM
I know if built by me there would be no warrenty which could be the breaking point of that idea.
If you can build one properly you can fix one properly.

Frank Ettin
July 29, 2009, 09:29 PM
...The Luger has a toggle and not a slide. I also thought the barrel was fixed to the frame and did not move at all after firing. Please explain.The Luger barrel is not fixed to the frame. It is fixed to what might be called an upper receiver, for want of a better term, which moves backward under recoil to unlock the toggle. See http://www.lugerforum.com/lugermain.html

Ash
July 29, 2009, 09:46 PM
The barrel is affixed to a slide that recoils rearward as mentioned above.

As to Astra's, the concept being that the barrels do not move during firing, and the Astra barrel does not.

Ash

Travlin
July 30, 2009, 12:15 AM
Thanks guys. Now I understand. The link made it very clear.

30mag
July 30, 2009, 12:23 AM
CZs are super-accurate (at least uncommonly accurate) if accuracy is what you are looking for. Also, they're cheap and pretty darn reliable.

Shear_stress
July 30, 2009, 09:46 AM
As someone else noted, a 1911 has a link controlled moving barrel.
But it only moves after the gun is unlocked, and the bullet is already long gone.
When it is in battery, there is no movement at all, period.

In the 1911, the barrel and slide (locked together) begin moving at the exact moment the bullet starts moving. This provides the inertia needed to work the action after bullet is gone.

The geometry of the action is timed such that the barrel doesn't unlock until the bullet has left the muzzle.

benderx4
July 30, 2009, 10:01 AM
My 9mm P7s are some of the most accurate guns I've ever shot. This fact made more remarkable by the fact that the barrel is only about 4.1" long. Combine the fixed barrel with great sights and a VERY good trigger, and you've got an amazinging accurate, but compact weapon.

waldonbuddy
July 30, 2009, 05:37 PM
Lots of good answers. I did almost buy a Wildey. Had the money order in hand when a friend of mine asked if I wanted to go to the gun shop before I mailed my money order for the Wildey.
Bad mistake. There was a S&W500 with a 4 inch barrel. Thats where my money order went and I walked out with the 500.
The CZ is still on my mind, but crap they just get more and more expensive. My cousin got two in Nov for $150 each, and I seen a guy at a local gun show that had one for $450!!!!!!! He said it was the grips that made it worth more {better plastic...lol}.
Also, with the CZ, while the ammo is extremely cheap for now, but its breaking a stupid rule I made about having too many different calibers. I guess I'm kinda like NATO in that respect.
Which takes me back to the 1911. As Ive been building things from cars {and I do mean everything from engines to bodywork to paint} to clock. I think the advantage is to be able to buy premium parts and still come out better than just buying one and paying $$$$ to have it customized.
After working on cars most of my life guns are easy to fix {at least to me} lots easier than some forign carburetors.....lol.
Anyways, that Korriphila HSP-701 is a beautiful work of art.........thanks for all of the replies. Also, I might have to look into the H&K since you all have had good things to say about them.
I still long for my DE that I bought back in the 80's when they first came out, which I had to sell when I got married................

Rex B
July 30, 2009, 05:46 PM
I have a Llama .380 which is blowback and the barrel tilts just like a 1911.
definitely not fixed.

Odd Job
July 30, 2009, 06:05 PM
Vektor CP1 (9mmP)

Zoogster
July 30, 2009, 07:34 PM
oh and dont forget the HK SP89....its a pistol

Yes that is what I was referring to in my first post when mentioning the mp5. However they are a $900 weapon that costs several thousand due to politics. Since they cannot legally be imported anymore, and are one of the few mp5 platforms to use for NFA goodies, the demand has caused the price to greatly exceed the value of a semi-auto $1,000 at best pistol. So I didn't mention it by name. Another mp5 clone type that is domesticly produced is a much better idea. But you have to find one produced intitially as a pistol.

LancerMW
July 30, 2009, 08:57 PM
the Makarov is the only fixxed barrel i own

HisSoldier
July 31, 2009, 12:07 PM
My Ruger MkIII Target model is the ultimate in rigidity. The front sight is attached to the barrel which is attached to the receiver which has the rear sight attached to it. The bolt movement is unrelated to the sights rigidity.

But the 1911 when fitted properly has a rigid setup too, people pick up an old 1911 and shake it and then shake their heads, like it's the barrel shaking around. Most times it's the grip safety that rattles.

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