question for pistol reloaders- possible brass source


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bonedust
July 28, 2009, 10:10 PM
So, i own a range and i reclaim and recycle all the lead and brass we use. im in the process of building a website and whatnot to begin to get some sales off the ground. well sell once fired pistol calibers and shotgun shells, as well as 1lb lead ingots and 1lb 90/5/5 ingots. but on to the main issue...

i have a major major stock pile of onefired brass. probably 30+ 55gal drums full...and another 3-5gal daily being added. im running out of room, and its accumulating faster than we can sort, and we wont have a sorter for another 3-4 months. so here is what im proposing:

Sweepins'! a large flat rate priority mail box can hold 44#'s of random assorted brass. i would box the mish-mash of brass and possibly sell it for $99 shipped. before you say anything, ive taken 4 of these randomly collected boxes, sroted, and compiled and averaged some data on what you would potentially get per box:

-the box is 44#'s in total
-.380 = 110 shells
-.38/357 = 300 shells
-9mm = 800 shells
-40sw = 500 shells
-.45 = 550 shells
-2lbs other odd but reloadable calibers (25, 32, 5.7, GAP, 41, 44, 45 colt, 454, 50ae, mak, tok, ect)
-8lbs of alum, steel, .22, .22mag, .17, ect

if you just account for the main sorted calibers, thats approx $140 worth of good reloadable brass (using an average of other online resellers as a pricing index). the other 10lbs still has significant scrap value ( i sell it to a local for $.70 lb). what i am proposing is to sell the 44# for $99 delivered in the cont USA.

so, does anyone have any constructive input in this matter? would anyone bite? am i way off base?

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Mags
July 28, 2009, 10:17 PM
Well let's say I reload the most popular pistol calibers which are 45,9mm, 40,and 38/357(I only own 9mm and 45ACP) I would get 1850 cartridges I could use for a little over half a cent a piece that is the best case scenario. Now for my situation I only reload 9mm and 45ACP paying just below three quarters of a cent per casing which is certainly a good deal but I must sort and clean and find somehow to dispose of the brass I don't need. For me it is not worth it for others it will be. Also consider in our current ammo and primer dilemma many people are downsizing to just a few calibers for the ease of supply. Overall its a good idea and price until you have the capability to sort the brass yourself, then it will be a great idea.

bonedust
July 28, 2009, 10:26 PM
thats a very valid point...and, like i said, this is only a proposal at this time. i realize its more work for the buyer, but the unused sorted calibers are still a saleable commodity? maybe im more of a horse trader than most...

we are sorting brass at this time, and will have sorted calibers available very soon. im merely testing an idea to make some room.

Clarence
July 28, 2009, 10:50 PM
Speaking for myself I would love to have a good source for .45 ACP and 38/357 brass, but I would consider it a pain to have to sort through it, and I would just have to throw away the rounds I don't load for.

How much does a 55 gallon drum weigh? I might rather buy one of those full of brass.

bonedust
July 28, 2009, 11:07 PM
almost 750#...and i never met a reloader that threw ANYTHING away! haha...

WNTFW
July 28, 2009, 11:21 PM
I wouldn't be buying a grab bag. I get too much free brass. If I was going to buy brass I want something specific.

What do you mean when you say sorter? Are you getting a machine?

I understand on the sorting and shipping - it is work.

PM sent.

bonedust
July 28, 2009, 11:23 PM
well, if we all got free brass it would be an issue!

we have plans to buy a camdex.

WNTFW
July 28, 2009, 11:33 PM
It ain't really free,
Somebody is paying for it.
Just not me.

mongoose33
July 28, 2009, 11:38 PM
Here's an honest assessment from me:

I only reload .45 and 9mm. When i collect enough .40, I sell it. But in your case, while the .380 and .357 does have value, it only has value if one has a resalable quantity, meaning 1000 pieces minimum, or 2000 pieces ideally. One box doesn't provide much.

So I'd be getting some calibers whose value to me would be essentially zero unless I bought several boxes.

Further, the the steel/aluminum/.22 stuff is worthless.

Further yet, the other odd but reloadable calibers are worthless. I don't know anybody who reloads them, and there won't be enough of them.

Further again, separating the .380 and 9mm will be a pain.

For something like this, considering I'm sorting and cleaning and useless elements, I'd expect to pay perhaps $60 max including shipping. I'd have to buy 4 or 5 boxes to ensure I had resalable amounts, and there'd still be a considerable amount of work involved.

And I'm not sure even $60 is low enough, considering the work involved.

This is just my sense of it. I'd like a crack at the brass, but IMO the work is not worth the price of $99.

bonedust
July 29, 2009, 01:18 AM
reloading is all about reducing cost by adding work...but i do truely appreciate the input.

the steel/alum/22 isnt worthless. they literally pick it up from our place for .70 cents a pound. $60 a box is $1.36 a lb... i can scrap it for that. thats .026 cents per useable shell.

1000 or 2000 may be your ideal number for a resale amount, but there are lots of gun show/online retailers offering 250 lots of product.


this is actually very interesting, because i have this posted on another board (a more dedicated reloading/casting spot) and im getting very different responses. i guess everyone has their angle on the sport!

keep in mind $99 is shipped. $14 of that is shipping that doesnt factor into the actual brass value.

ants
July 29, 2009, 01:20 AM
...when you compare sorted brass prices to your mixed-lot grab bag of who-knows-what-you-might-get random mix of brass.

Assuming that you CANNOT guarantee the contents of my box, if I sent you 50 bucks the risk would still be to big. Sorry, friend. No can do.

Better get that sorter and then you can truly compare your prices to other internet prices for sorted brass.




The above is my opinion only. You may tell me to shut up if you wish.

bonedust
July 29, 2009, 01:26 AM
well, we are selling sorted brass hand over fist. our local customers eat most of the inventory before we even reach an online market. we just cant sort as fast as it hits the ground, and space has become the ultimate problem. maybe finding storage is a better solution in the long run.

RoostRider
July 29, 2009, 01:40 AM
How about paying some local kid to sort brass for minimum wage?

IMtheNRA
July 29, 2009, 01:42 AM
Bonedust, storage is your worst solution in the long run. Production capacity is the best.

bonedust
July 29, 2009, 01:51 AM
some kid is already making min wage to sort! the brass is a funny thing, because it sells as fast as its ready. adding more kids to sort just reduces profit. its not really a needed income stream in the buisness, its more supplimental so time isnt really of the essence. i dont really see the demand for brass going down anytime real soon either.

ideally, we need a better 1 or 2 man sorting solution. the shake pans work fine, but its still a tedious task at best when faced with the volume on hand.

mongoose33
July 29, 2009, 08:54 AM
reloading is all about reducing cost by adding work...but i do truely appreciate the input.

the steel/alum/22 isnt worthless. they literally pick it up from our place for .70 cents a pound. $60 a box is $1.36 a lb... i can scrap it for that. thats .026 cents per useable shell.


I think you may be looking at it more from your point of view, not the reloader who buys one box. If I buy one box, and get a few pounds of scrap, then I have to go and sell it to a scrapyard, if one is nearby and if they will take a small amount. I'll bet you're getting a good price in bulk. Ten pounds is not bulk. And it takes time and gas to do that. Not much of a gain for me.



1000 or 2000 may be your ideal number for a resale amount, but there are lots of gun show/online retailers offering 250 lots of product.


Offering is one thing; how much are they selling?

I'm not a gun show seller, nor an online retailer. So this is moot. Further, if you want to sell something you need a large enough quantity to make it worth the buyer's shipping charges and time for screwing around with it.



this is actually very interesting, because i have this posted on another board (a more dedicated reloading/casting spot) and im getting very different responses. i guess everyone has their angle on the sport!



Maybe they're people who are reloading most or all of the calibers in the box. In my case--remember, I only do .45 and 9mm (and .223, but that's not in the box), only the .40 has additional value for me, as when I accumulate enough I sell it--in lots of 2000.

And if one bought a number of boxes, presumably the lesser counts of some calibers would add up to enough to sell, and perhaps the scrap would be worth screwing around with.

I suspect I'm closer to the average reloader than they are, but in the end all you need is enough people to buy it from you.



keep in mind $99 is shipped. $14 of that is shipping that doesnt factor into the actual brass value.


I understand, but keep in mind that the cost to me would be $99, and it doesn't matter if shipping is $1 or $14, it's still costing me $99 total, and the value of the brass and scrap has to make it worth that.

Anyway, good luck with it, and with finding a model that works for you.

jmorris
July 29, 2009, 09:50 AM
adding more kids to sort just reduces profit. its not really a needed income stream in the buisness

Those seem to be conflicting statements. Assuming 9mm goes for $235/ 5gal, even if you paid some kid $10 an hour and he only sorted one 5 gallon bucket a day you would still profit $155 and that not too bad for something you don’t need. Short term the kid will also cost less than the $7500 Camdex machine.

ideally, we need a better 1 or 2 man sorting solution. the shake pans work fine, but its still a tedious task at best when faced with the volume on hand.

I thought the Camdex and Scharch sorting machines were a little too expensive so I built my own sorter. Here is a video from its first trial run http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/?action=view&current=sorterhopper.flv

and a photo of what it looks like now.

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=68610&d=1196952403

bonedust
July 29, 2009, 10:14 AM
thats a very impressive build.

paperkilr
July 29, 2009, 11:22 AM
jmorris- great fab skills.

I reload for reliability, accuracy and power factor. Cost is obviously a factor but sweating over a penny is ridiculous to me.

bonedust- sort your brass then I would buy 45, 40, 38 super and 223. Also look at ebay for sales, our local range guy sells ALL of his brass on-line.

Just a thought, I would see if jmorris would build me a sorting machine it looks like he is a fab shop with skill!

hokeyplyr48
July 29, 2009, 11:36 AM
Hey bonedust, if you need any help makin the website, let me know. That's what I do for work so I'd be more than willing to help you out.

bonedust
July 29, 2009, 01:46 PM
paperkilr-

i appreciate the input, but thats not everone's end motive in reloading. while the resonse from this site wouldnt indicate it, the overall response for the offering has been pretty good...to the point where im going to push fwd to liquidate some quickly.

ebay does not allow the sale of Blank ammunition, Bullets, buck shot, lead shot, Cartridges, casings, shells, hulls, Dummy ammunition, Gunpowder or primers, Inert ammunition, Live ammunition rounds, or even empty ammunition boxes on their site.

robphillips
July 29, 2009, 01:58 PM
Why not get the bucket set from Midway to get your sorting started. They are damn cheap.
I with the other guys on purchasing. I buy at least 1000 rounds of each caliber except for hunting rifle calibers, but that is a different story.

Flat rate USPS shipping is about 13 bucks for all you can get in the box. Everybody is going to want to get as much as possible in that box in these economic times.

bonedust
July 29, 2009, 02:34 PM
we do currantly use the bucket set for our sorting.

$13.95 actually, i said $14.00 above. the Large flat rate box with a 1/4 carboard on top and on bottom for reinforcement holds exactly 44lbs of casing without bulging the box. you could probably stuff another 1/2 lb in there, but im not going to risk a box of casings blowing open in some USPS sort machine and having to answer those questions.

i really appreciate the info/input guys. our polling shows some want it, some dont...which is fine. this isnt something we are looking to do as a long term buisness plan.

Roccobro
July 29, 2009, 06:01 PM
Throw one or two on the For Sale forum. I'm sure there are still some odd horders that would buy it for it's long term value. I bet they don't even reload so they wouldn't have the same concerns as us here.

As a side note, I think the folks here are a bit less "alarmists" in nature than most other gun boards. We don't snatch up primers (or any other components) just because they are on the shelf. Generally we buy what we need and can use. Buying a box that is possibly 40# of scrap metal isn't in our reloading budget.

Justin

fields
July 29, 2009, 06:27 PM
Around here, the unsorted brass goes for $2 a pound. I would bet that most people can grt it locally.

richard

fields
July 29, 2009, 06:30 PM
Around here, assorted used brass goes for $2 a pound at the ranges. I would bet that most people could get it for that if they asked.

richard

fields
July 29, 2009, 06:34 PM
I also would pay the shipping if anyone would like to rid themselves of the S&B.

richard

mgkdrgn
July 29, 2009, 09:16 PM
Perhaps you should see if any of the commercial reloaders have any interest.

Now, if you could separate out the 45 Colt and sell it to me for 3/4 of what I would pay for new Starline Brass ....

evan price
July 29, 2009, 11:32 PM
Right now, I have two ranges that I buy bulk brass from. I provide them with the nice big 40-gallon rectangular rolly-bins that are used for trash or recycling in the city. I pay $400 when the rolly-bin is full and swap it for an empty rolly-bin. I bought the rolly-bins at Wal*Mart.

That makes it about $1 a pound for brass once I remove all the rimfires, Blazer aluminum, and various steel cases.

I sell the aluminum and steel for right now $75 a ton as sheet metal (takes a lot but I mix it in with other scrap metal until I get a trailer load). The scrap brass I sell directly to the smelter- the rimfires, Berdan primed, bent, cracked & split brass, and all the spent primers from my reloading- for $1 a pound as brass scrap, along with car keys, faucet parts, and any other brass scrap I find, or else trade it for lead WWs at a 5-gallon bucket full of brass for a 5-gallon bucket of lead WWs.

Right now demand for reloading brass is weak due to lack of primers and other components. I am right now just turning and burning, so to speak, and sorting out the revolver brass, .45 acp brass, and the rifle brass, and all the mixed leftover is going to the smelter so that I can maintain my cash flow.

Due to the ammo shortages, the amount of fired brass from the suppliers is down easily 50% or more. Where I once could guarantee 10 gallons a week from each of them, I am lucky to be getting 5 gallons a week and usually less. I used to have to switch bins monthly. It's going on 2 months now, and there's a lot more steel cases than ever before. I would say the steel cases have tripled in volume, so I am thinking about reducing my per-pound price.

Wildyams
July 30, 2009, 12:13 AM
I think it sounds like a decent deal.. if you reload several of those calibers. I however do not so it doesn't appeal to me very much. I'm sure you could sell what ever brass you can't use here in the trading post.

bonedust
July 30, 2009, 12:22 PM
well i have orders for 12 boxes. i gave 6 of those guys a better price in exchange for a detailed report of what they recover after the sort.

fields
July 30, 2009, 06:54 PM
Well, good. You got rid of over 500 lb. I think you should just list it in the various forums untill you get other means to sell it. That way, you will not increase your currentstorage problems.

richard

bonedust
July 31, 2009, 10:16 AM
thats the plan!

sold another 8 boxes today. at this rate it wont take much time to bankroll a Camdex.

Roccobro
July 31, 2009, 11:48 PM
Congrats!!!!

Justin

keano44
August 1, 2009, 12:33 AM
I may be missing something here, but I don't get it: If you are sweeping this brass off the floor, how can you sell it as once-fired brass? How can you possibly know how many times it's been fired? Unless, you only allow ammo you sell at your range to be fired there, and you only sell new production ammo?

moooose102
August 1, 2009, 12:22 PM
i do not know where you are located, but what about selling off 55 gallon or drums or 5 gallon buckets for $?.?? per pound? if you have anyone that is local who resells brass cartridges, or reloads themselves they may be interested. at least until you get a brass sorting machine. personally, if you were close enough, i would buy several 5 gallon buckets, sort out what i shoot, and resell the rest. you could also list the brass for sale in craigslist.

bonedust
August 2, 2009, 12:39 PM
I may be missing something here, but I don't get it: If you are sweeping this brass off the floor, how can you sell it as once-fired brass? How can you possibly know how many times it's been fired? Unless, you only allow ammo you sell at your range to be fired there, and you only sell new production ammo?

thats a valid point, but i think you will find that all 'once fired brass' is more of a potluck than advertised. i cant speak for all sellers, but i can speak for a few of the larger ones. i can say that if reloaders shoot at our place, they certainly DONT leave their brass.

i didnt think about craigslist...but i avoid it if possible. i prefer not to answer the dumbest questions under the sun. last thing i sold on crailslist i clearly stated twice "will not break up set, price is firm and not negociable, cannot ship". the first 3 questions i got were:

-can i buy just one piece?
-will you take $300?
-will you sell me the bed for $100 and ship it to zip 00000

really, people?
-can i buy the

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