Who makes a good gov't profile AR upper


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wojownik
July 29, 2009, 12:38 AM
As the subject sez, any recommendations out there for a good standard 20" government profile AR upper. That extra 1 lb in my HBAR is wearing me out (time to get to the gym :D )

A friend mentioned BCM uppers at Bravo Company (out of stock, not taking orders). Any other resources?

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Z-Michigan
July 29, 2009, 01:25 AM
I think Sabre Defence also makes them, and I know that CMMG does. Bushmaster sometimes makes them but I don't think they are a catalog item for them - however I have one of theirs (from 2007 tax time savings) and it is quite nice. Most of them are 1:7 twist and chrome lined - I assume you want those features anyway.

The weight savings is significant and balance is greatly improved.

Moose458
July 29, 2009, 10:51 AM
+1 on the Sabre Defence. I couldn't be happier with mine.

ParaElite
July 29, 2009, 11:03 AM
It is a pity you missed out on the much anticipated BCM 20" uppers. I was informed by email which I did not see for over 8 hours and I thought well I screwed up after months of waiting. However, much to my surprise they were still available for a day and a half more.
In the opinion of many (including myself) they are less expensive and/or of better quality (Mil-spec wise) than the Sabre D.I., CMMG, and Bushmaster offerings. I got my 20" upper sans the FA BCG and Charging Handle for $475.
And here is why:

Features

* M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension

* M4 Feed Ramp Flat Top Receiver

* T-Marked Upper Receivers

* USGI 1/7 Twist Rates

* USGI 5.56 NATO Chambers

* Mil-Spec 11595E - Barrel Steel (CMV)

* Chrome Lined Bore and Chamber

* Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish

* Mil-Spec F-Marked Forged Front Sights

* USGI Government Profile Barrels

* HPT (High Pressure Test) Barrels

* MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Barrels

Go to M4C.net and find out from the "Chart" why these features are desirable. I wanted something comparable to what I carried during my days in the 82nd without the 3 round burst and that is what I got. Great build quality and materials from Paul at Bravo Co. at a great price.
Sorry you missed out.

Z-Michigan
July 29, 2009, 12:27 PM
they are less expensive and/or of better quality (Mil-spec wise) than the Sabre D.I., CMMG, and Bushmaster offerings. I got my 20" upper sans the FA BCG and Charging Handle for $475.

They may well be better quality, based on reports I've read, but if you need a bolt carrier group and charging handle they cost more than CMMG ($575 or so complete with those items) or Bushmaster (based on what I paid) options. Although at $475 + $130 (bolt carrier group) + $20 (charging handle) they would only be a little more.

krs
July 29, 2009, 12:29 PM
:rolleyes:

I have a Colt upper surplus'd or something - 20", an actual issue a1 upper EXACTLY the type issued to me in the 1st Infantry Div 1/4 U.S. Cavalry(AIR) in Vietnam, and I bought it for $289.----- from CHEAPER THAN DIRT. :)

I won't brag and say anything like "Sorry you missed out" though, and the important feature is that everything important is well peened into place and that it never fails to fire. Be sure to do that with whatever you buy. :)

wojownik
July 29, 2009, 05:31 PM
Thanks, Z-Mich. The Sabre looks a bit above my desired budget, though I'm sure it is an excellent product.

How are CMMG's uppers quality-wise? I bought something from one of their "sister companies" and I was less than impressed. That is right about the price range I'd want to stay in.

As noted, since the BCM's don't include bolt carrier groups, charging handles or handguards, I suppose they'll end up being a bit costlier.

I'm familiar with the M4C.net list. I'd be satisfied with a moly bore and 1/9 twist rate. I've humped around with the original (Colt - before the FN contract) - and couldn't shoot all that well 20 years ago, and haven't gotten better with age. :D So going all out with all those options are probably not what I'm looking for...

ParaElite
July 29, 2009, 05:45 PM
krs,

It was not my intention to gloat or bragg. I was actually being sympathetic with wojownik. I too have missed opportunities at BCM products. There is a reason why they sell out so quickly, especially among the M16/M4 cognoscenti.

wojownik,
The reason why I pointed out BCM's products has nothing to do with whether or not you could shoot 20 years ago;)
I just wanted to point you in the direction of another alternative of equal or better quality.
When you order with other companies just make sure that they have all the features you want and then compare prices. With BCM's products you know exactly what you are getting and the gentleman who owns and operates BCM has very high standards.
Those features include items that will ensure the longevity of your firearm among other things.
All I was doing was giving alternatives and making suggestions. In the final analysis it is your money and your decision.:D

Z-Michigan
July 29, 2009, 05:47 PM
I think CMMG's uppers are good quality, but I don't own one - yet. I actually have one on order, if that tells you my level of confidence in them. Perhaps current owners could chime in.

BCM has a feature so you can get emailed when a product is back in stock. Might be worth considering. But total cost for a "complete" upper will be somewhat more than with CMMG.

You should also look up J&T Distributing, which does AR kits and complete uppers. I think they have one in the profile you want. Their prices should be competitive.

http://jtdistributing.net/index.html

Their website could be better so I'd suggest downloading the PDF catalog and looking through that.

wojownik
July 29, 2009, 07:02 PM
ParaElite - I got what you were saying, and it makes sense. Essentially, for just around $30 more than CMMG, the BCM offers all the bells and whistles. Yep, that's where I'll be looking. And the wait maight not be so bad, since I just picked up another J&T HBAR (cheep - $345).

z-mich - speaking of J&T, I spoke with one of their guys this past wwekend at a gun show. He confirmed that they do not prodiuce a light or govt barrel. In fact, he made the case that gov't profile uppers were scarce, generally unavailable, and much more expensive. Hence my purchase of the A4 style HBAR upper. On the other hand, the J&T has already produced far better groups for me than two older Bushie uppers I have - even only after a light break-in ..

So for benchrest, I'll stick with my HBAR, and for offhand, I think that I'll save my prrepennies for a BCM.

Now a related question ... Is FN selling to the civilian market, or just servicing their military contract...

ParaElite
July 29, 2009, 07:22 PM
They are not "officially" selling to the civilian market. Having said that, there have been parts and uppers here and there that have made mysterious appearances. Nobody I know of has any real information on how these parts are making it out into the public. Maybe someone else here knows where these "FN" parts are coming from.

Z-Michigan
July 29, 2009, 11:13 PM
My knowledge of FN is identical to what ParaElite posted. Are they military surplus? (not likely) Gray market? I don't know. My understanding is that the military contract prohibits FN from selling products from that production line to the civilian market.

wojownik
July 30, 2009, 01:18 AM
Interesting if it was the case FN volunteered or was compelled to accept such a restriction, keeping them out of the commercial market. Saber Defense won a contract for several thousand M16A3/A4 units as well, but thay are not locked out of the commercial market (their contract is at https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/award_web_08/W52H0908D02930001/000000.pdf).

Crawfish141
July 30, 2009, 01:20 AM
In stock too!
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/CMMG_.223_5.56x45_AR15_20__Complete_Upper_Half.html

ParaElite
July 30, 2009, 03:28 AM
That looks good. Just ask them if the bolt has been MPIed and if the barrel has been HPTed. No point doing an MPI on a barrel if they have not fired a high pressure round through it.
Has the gas key been properly staked? Is it a FA BCG? Is the chamber a proper 5.56X45 mm chamber or a .223 chamber or a Wilde chamber that is quite popular with High Power Service Rifle shooter. If the answer is yes (proper 5.56 or .223 - can't be vague - it is one or the other and there is a difference) to all of these questions then it is definitely a better deal than the BCM price wise and I would go for it.
If those are not an issue with you then ignore what I said earlier and go for it.

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