Is this M14 legal?


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TheFallGuy
July 29, 2009, 02:28 PM
I have wanted an M14 forever. Now I finally have the money in place with a $2000 budget. I saw this auction: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135034895

I think it looks like a decent deal compared to other M14's in my area. The poster notes a place on the stock where the fire selector used to be. How can I tell if it was originally select fire or not? If it was originally select fire I would assume it's illegal due to the BATFE's "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" policy. I don't feel like doing prison time so I appreciate the advice.

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briansmithwins
July 29, 2009, 02:32 PM
The receiver is stamped M1A, which were not select fire. M14s would have the provision for auto fire a be a machinegun according to ATF.

That the stock has a selector cut just means it’s surplus and could have been used on a M14. If you want it and the price is right those things wouldn’t hold me up. BSW

TexasRifleman
July 29, 2009, 02:38 PM
Yep, M1A so you're good. You can even buy fake selector switches to fill in the gap in the stock to make it look more correct if you want.

All M14s are machineguns because of the "once an MG always an MG" rule, but there are not many out there. You won't accidentally run across one, they are very valuable.

SharpsDressedMan
July 29, 2009, 02:44 PM
I believe there are a few exceptions on some real M14's that were sold through the DCM before BATF got wind of it. They were sold to clubs or high power shooters, and had the auto hardware mounting lug machined off. They apparently are legit, but there are just a few that were released, and BATF decided not to recall them at the time. They probably have a record, or bills of sale, etc, to go with them. So there are a FEW M14's out there, but they no longer can be fitted with auto parts, as modified by the DCM before selling them. I'm sure a documented DCM M14 would go for quite a few bucks, too.

TexasRifleman
July 29, 2009, 02:52 PM
believe there are a few exceptions on some real M14's that were sold through the DCM before BATF got wind of it. They were sold to clubs or high power shooters, and had the auto hardware mounting lug machined off.

Now that you mention it I remember reading something about that.

Never seen one. That would be a collectible thing for sure.

nbkky71
July 29, 2009, 03:11 PM
The receiver is stamped M1A, which were not select fire

Not 100% accurate. There were a limited number of select-fire M1A rifles made by Springfield Armory, Inc.

Pics are shown on Different's M1A Gallery here:
http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/civilian?page=5

briansmithwins
July 29, 2009, 03:19 PM
Not 100% accurate. There were a limited number of select-fire M1A rifles made by Springfield Armory, Inc.

I figured as much. I should have said ‘The receiver is stamped M1A which is almost never select fire.’

I stand corrected. BSW

TexasRifleman
July 29, 2009, 03:52 PM
Not 100% accurate. There were a limited number of select-fire M1A rifles made by Springfield Armory, Inc.

Well, the thing is the people who have those know what they have. It's not like you're going to see someone accidentally put one up for sale at normal M1A prices :)

Deckard
July 29, 2009, 04:06 PM
I believe there are a few exceptions on some real M14's that were sold through the DCM before BATF got wind of it. They were sold to clubs or high power shooters, and had the auto hardware mounting lug machined off. They apparently are legit, but there are just a few that were released, and BATF decided not to recall them at the time. They probably have a record, or bills of sale, etc, to go with them. So there are a FEW M14's out there, but they no longer can be fitted with auto parts, as modified by the DCM before selling them. I'm sure a documented DCM M14 would go for quite a few bucks, too. Its too bad they didn't decide to be reasonable and do that with the entire stock of M14s instead of grinding them into bits. It would be great to walk into one of the CMP stores and see racks of field and service grade M14s waiting for good homes.

vit
July 29, 2009, 04:21 PM
Don't forget rewelds...

Trebor
July 29, 2009, 04:57 PM
I believe there are a few exceptions on some real M14's that were sold through the DCM before BATF got wind of it. They were sold to clubs or high power shooters, and had the auto hardware mounting lug machined off

No, you are confusing a couple different things into a new rumor.

Back when the M-14 was still being manufactured the DCM did make specs up for a "National Match" M-14 with the intent of these being sold to civvie shooters for competition. There were, IIRC, all of *two* rifles made up by the manufacturers in this configuration. The lub was not "ground off," it was actually manufactured without the lug. There is a difference. For various reasons, the project was abandoned.

One of these rifles wound up in private hands and the ATF confiscated it as being a MG. The owner appealed and the final court decision was that since *that specific rifle* was manufactured WITHOUT the ability to accept the full-auto parts, it was not a MG.

The DCM never sold M-14's to clubs or civilians. The DCM and later the CMP did *loan* out to M-14's to clubs, who then could issue them to individual competitors. Those rifles were still US Gov property though and were only on loan to the club. They were not the property of the club or of the individual shooters. A few years back the CMP recalled all of the loaner M-14's as they were once again needed by the military.

None of those ex-DCM loaner guns are legal for civilians to own. I've heard of at least one instance where the shooter who possessed one of the loaner M-14's died and his family sold the gun, along with his other guns, and the M-14 wound up on the market. If you run across a M-14 like that, it's still not legal to own, as it's essentially stolen Gov property.

Now, there are a small number of USGI M-14's that are legal for civilians to own. The DoD released a small amount of M-14's to one of the other Federal agencies years ago (the DoE or Forest Service, IIRC). Those rifles were registered in the NFA before 1986 and later that Fed agency did sell them off to raise funds. They really weren't supposed to, but they did, and apperently it was legal. Those rifles are legal to own and are registered MG's in the NFA database. They are very expensive though and don't come up for sale very often. The people who own them know what they have and you have to be a deep pockets collector to get one.

There are also some registered MG's that started life as M-1A semi-auto's or even factory built M-1A MG's, but those are technically different from a USGI M-14.

TheFallGuy
July 29, 2009, 05:03 PM
awesome. thanks for the info.

H2O MAN
July 29, 2009, 06:00 PM
TheFallGuy......... Is this M14 legal?

Is that an M14? NO
Is it Legal? YES

BTW, Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A receivers with the 7.62-mm roll stamp are sweet!

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/135034000/135034895/pix3717087921.jpg

1KPerDay
July 29, 2009, 06:50 PM
OWN A PIECE OF U.S. HISTORY!!! SRINGFIELD M14- M1A1 308, LOW SNs#! IT IS ALL ORIGINAL, ALL MATCHING PARTS. BARREL IS PRISTINE, DRIVE NAILS AT 500 YARDS! NOTE THE STOCK WHERE THE FIRE SELECTOR USED TO BE :)
:rolleyes:

Gordon
July 30, 2009, 12:07 AM
I have one of these low # M1as and aside from the reciever seems to have ALL GI parts. I would never part with it an it live with an ANPVS2 mounted on it and a bipod, to remind me of Tet 68 !

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