45 colt vs 45 auto rim


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Nicodemus38
July 29, 2009, 10:25 PM
is it possible to load 45 colt to a level that can approach what a 45 auto rim can with 200-225 grain bullets?

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BigJakeJ1s
July 29, 2009, 10:47 PM
Oh, yes...

Andy

robphillips
July 29, 2009, 10:52 PM
And then some.

ChristopherG
July 29, 2009, 11:03 PM
Depends on the gun--both ways. I can load a 45AR load in my modern S&W 625, for instance, that I would definitely NOT shoot in some older Colt .45's.

On the other hand, a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt could shoot whatever weight bullet it wants at levels I wouldn't want to even approach in a 1917 or even an older 25.

pinkymingeo
July 30, 2009, 05:43 AM
Depends on your gun, and your personal comfort level. I've found that at pressures I'm willing to use in a S&W 25, 45AR/acp and 45Colt have similar performance. I prefer the shorter cartridge for several reasons, but performance is equivalent. In a big Ruger you can load the Colt to 44mag levels, if that's what you want to do. Personally, I use a 44mag for that.

rcmodel
July 30, 2009, 11:38 AM
It's not only possible, but you would have to download the .45 Colt to get it down to .45AR velocity levels at the same pressure.

How can this be?

The .45AR case is too small to use that heavy a bullet and some of the slower burning powders that the .45 Colt can use.

Just a quick look at the Lyman #49 manual shows the .45AR with a 225 grain lead bullet giving at most, 922 FPS at 13,800 CUP.

The .45 Colt will get over 1,000 FPS at 12,000 - 13,000 CUP with a 230 grain and several different powders.

The same is true with jacketed bullets.

rc

Nicodemus38
July 31, 2009, 12:11 AM
so is it safe to say that the 45 colt is "better" then the 45 AR because it can do more at the same/lower chamber pressure?

i ask because ive seen it said that the 45 ar revovlers are naturally more accurate then the standard 45 colt saa is, and im just wondering if a slightly more accurate handgun is going to reduce effect in the field.

this has popped up on my google browser, and with salt on it

255 gr swc @ 961 fps - 523 me
200 gr xtp @ 1032 - 473
230 gr xtp @ 969 - 480
250 gr xtp @ 929 - 479

are those actually correct loads for standard pressure 45 colt? also would those be safe for the modern tip up pistols in 45 colt?

rcmodel
July 31, 2009, 12:37 PM
Seems like they would be safe.

The orginial .45 Colt black powder load would push a 255 grain bullet to over 950 FPS out of a 7 1/2" Colt SAA. The Colt SAA is a stronger gun then a Uberti Scofield, but maybe not a BP Colt made in 1873.

i ask because ive seen it said that the 45 ar revovlers are naturally more accurate then the standard 45 colt saa is,If they are more accurate, it is only because the most common .45AR revolver is the very fine, target sighted S&W Model 25 & 625 series. Better sights, better trigger, faster lock-time, etc. will most likely give them an edge in accuracy.

On the otherhand, a Freedom Arms revolver in .45 Colt would be one of the most accurate revolvers ever made.

rc

ChristopherG
July 31, 2009, 02:17 PM
If they are more accurate, it is ONLY because the most common .45AR revolver is the very fine, target sighted S&W Model 25 & 625 series. (emphasis added)

I'm not sure that's the ONLY reason, though it is probably the primary one. I believe at least one origin of the notion Nicodemus has quoted--that the 45AR is intrinsically more accurate than the 45colt--comes from a gunwriter (forget which one, but the claim got him in a feud with another such hoplologic author) who stated that for STANDARD 45 colt loads, the 45ar was superior because of its lower case volume, making for lower deviations in combustion and velocity. All the case volume required for black powder just means modern powders have a lot of elbow room to rattle around in there.

That's the theory. Not having significant experience with the .45 colt, I can't say more--except that the .38 special, which was also a blackpowder load to start with, is not exactly known as a slouch in the accuracy department.

25-20 WCF
July 31, 2009, 07:17 PM
...Not having significant experience with the .45 colt, I can't say more--except that the .38 special, which was also a blackpowder load to start with, is not exactly known as a slouch in the accuracy department....

True, but the accuracy loads for the .38 Special use wadcutter bullets which are seated flush with the case mouth - taking up most of that excess case volume left over as an artifact from the cartridge's black powder origins.

I have a lot of experience loading for the .45LC in over a dozen firearms. If the correct bullet/powder combination is chosen, accuracy of some .45LC firearms can equal any .38 Special target load. My most accurate .45LC revolver is a Dan Wesson M45; its favorite load is a 300-grain LBT cast bullet and AA-1680. Average accuracy is 1.5 moa at 1080 fps. One reason this load works so well is because the powder bulks up well in the big case. The LBT bullet puts much of its volume outside the case but closer to the forcing cone.

Loads with fast burning powders at low pressures haven't shot so well for me, no better than 3-4 moa in most of my firearms. The best load was with a 250 Lee FN over W231in my M94 Winchester, averaging 3 moa. All groups fired at 100 yards with scopes.



.

zxcvbob
July 31, 2009, 07:29 PM
is it possible to load 45 colt to a level that can approach what a 45 auto rim can with 200-225 grain bullets? I think it should be safe to load a .45 Colt down that far...

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