Why no love for the Mini-14 ?


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mp5a3
July 30, 2009, 01:32 PM
I own a few AR15's but have been owned a Mini-14. I played around a little with one and have been kicking around the idea of buying one. I'm surprised that not too many people seem to like them. They share a lot of the same design principals with the M1 Garand, which to here tell, was handcrafted by God himself within heavens pearly gates.

(Don't get huffy, Garand lovers, I'm not knocking the M1 at all)

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P.B.Walsh
July 30, 2009, 01:49 PM
Not as accuate as an AR-15, and lower aftermarket support, that's all that I can think of.:)

black_powder_Rob
July 30, 2009, 02:04 PM
its America's AK and people need something to hate.

Also I think it stems from the way Bill Ruger handled the company during the awb in the 90's.

P.S. i love mine.

MikeKeyW
July 30, 2009, 02:05 PM
I was told by a LE firearms instructor that the M-16 was much more reliable than the AC556K's they fielded. Personally while I love my M1A NM the Mini-14 feels like I'm holding a BB or toy gun, I don't have that toy feeling with my AR's, go figure...

Omaha-BeenGlockin
July 30, 2009, 02:11 PM
My Tactical Mini rides shotgun -so to speak- in my trunk daily.

Factory mags and I'm well armed.

ArmedBear
July 30, 2009, 02:12 PM
I love mine.

It's not the perfect rifle for every possible application, but once you get to shooting some, you realize that nothing is.:)

benEzra
July 30, 2009, 02:13 PM
I think most of the low opinions of the mini-14 (other than grumbling about the price) were generated by the older, pre-580 series mini's. I owned a 188-series Ranch Rifle myself, and finally sold it because in 15+ years, its best 100-yard group ever was 5.5", from a rest and rear bag. My AK will shoot better than that with cheap Wolf.

The other thing is, for the MSRP of a mini-14, you can buy an AK of comparable accuracy, PLUS an optic, PLUS a Surefire light and mount, and you may still have enough change left over for mags and ammo. Or, you could buy an AR, and have a rifle with better accuracy potential and better ergonomics.

On the upside, they are reliable and handy, though.

black_powder_Rob
July 30, 2009, 02:14 PM
Really? AR's feel like toys to me with their plastic stocks. Never liked the Plastic polymers. Don't get me wrong if I was given one to use I would, but I am just as happy use my mini14. I guess its true what they say different strokes for different folks.:D

ArmedBear
July 30, 2009, 02:15 PM
Owning and shooting both, I fail to see how an AR has better ergonomics.

The Mini points better. The AR handles better as an "entry" carbine.

Of course, a 20" AR is a decent-handling rifle, quite different from both, but it's really fair to compare carbines with carbines.

(My Mini is a stainless/xytel Ranch Rifle)

WardenWolf
July 30, 2009, 02:58 PM
The Mini-14 is a good enough gun. A lot of people were turned off by the early ones that had an out-of-spec barrel and were highly inaccurate, but the newer ones are very fine rifles. However, for the price of a Mini-14, I would rather have a Saiga .223.

ArmedBear
July 30, 2009, 03:10 PM
I shot a Saiga once.

Worst handling carbine I've ever had the displeasure of picking up.

It shoots fine, though.

dom1104
July 30, 2009, 03:15 PM
It is in my opinion, possibly the most overpriced, poorly performing gun I have ever shot.

It is most likely, the worst example of an american fighting carbine.

This is all because it is very VERY overpriced for what you are getting, due to the cost of manufacturing it.

There are better choices. it is handy, and portable, but there are more handy and more portable options in the high speed varmint gun caliber that costs 800 bucks.

By the I would personally get a mini up to the point that it would be USABLE for defense at short ranges, it would cost more than an AR. most likely far more.

Sorry if I am ranting but it was a gun I wanted to like, but just could not find anything redeeming about it in the end.

ArmedBear
July 30, 2009, 03:21 PM
I agree, the prices can be way too high -- although they're available for a lot less than 800 bucks, and I paid 600. And I'm not telling anyone to rush out and get one; I already have one, but I do like it.

By the I would personally get a mini up to the point that it would be USABLE for defense at short ranges

What, exactly, does that require?

Mine was 100% usable out of the box, for short-range defense. I'm not really a mall ninja type, though.

frankiestoys
July 30, 2009, 03:23 PM
Iv'e been seeing alot of post lately on these rifle's.
I own a new model. SS ,synthetic stock, heavy barrel,trigger job, accu-strut and a nikon prostaff on top. IT WILL SHOOT 1 INCH GROUPS.(50 YARDS)
I looked at an older model just a few days ago and its clearly not the same rifle, Ruger seemed to have fix the problems it may have had.
Ive only fired about a thousand rounds through it and had only one jam (wolf ammo) and it never happened again.
These are good guns ,not perfect but they will do what you need them to do.
And they are not toys!

dom1104
July 30, 2009, 03:37 PM
well you must live in a better part of the county for gun prices then, I have not seen one for less than 800 in a long while.

I havent checked in a LONG while, but I belive the factory mags were in the 30 - 35 dollar each range, the rail for red dot or whathaveyou was 50 for a weigand, and some way to put a light on it was pricey too.

It ended up a $1100 ish proposition, for a gun that couldnt shoot any better than an sks. The one I had was probably the worst rifle for accuracy I have ever shot. Including milsurp stuff. Granted I am basing this opinion on 1 rifle, but I have heard the same from everyone I have ever talked to about it.

I really think its market is for people in California who CANT buy an AR.

Dont get me wrong, the idea of a mini-garand is a great one and one I definatly wanted to like, but a rifle that cant shoot straight for that kind of money, is just not a good buy.

dom1104
July 30, 2009, 03:41 PM
I actually know a guy who has 6 of them.

he is a kind of survivalist type tho, buys guns for his family and never shoots them. has more ammo than you can shake a stick at but I bet he hasnt shot 1000 rounds in his lifetime.

So yeah, my mental association with the mini 14 is "Overpriced, innaccurate, heavy for its size, and Y2K."

:)

frankiestoys
July 30, 2009, 03:47 PM
I actually know a guy who has 6 of them.

he is a kind of survivalist type tho, buys guns for his family and never shoots them. has more ammo than you can shake a stick at but I bet he hasnt shot 1000 rounds in his lifetime.

So yeah, my mental association with the mini 14 is "Overpriced, innaccurate, heavy for its size, and Y2K."

:)
sorry to hear that.

taliv
July 30, 2009, 03:50 PM
I'm surprised that not too many people seem to like them.

that's usually a clue


Owning and shooting both, I fail to see how an AR has better ergonomics.

kinda surprised to hear you say this, AB. Try running your mini left-handed for a bit. I don't find any of that style actions (garand/m14/etc) to be very ergonomic. I don't much care for the mag release or the location of the bolt-hold-open or the safety. I find the pistol grip of the AR much more ergonomic, and collapsible/adjustable stocks are better than folders.

1858
July 30, 2009, 03:59 PM
Why no love for the Mini-14 ?

Who cares what others think about the Mini-14? My wife can hit a 1' x 2' steel plate at 300 yards ALL DAY LONG and she enjoys it!! Are the rounds grouping at 3"? Probably not, but WHO FRIGGIN' CARES ... she doesn't so why should I?!! The Mini-14 is a MOM rifle that is ergonomic, light, short, maneuverable, INCREDIBLY reliable, low recoiling and accurate enough for just about any PRACTICAL scenario. In fact, if I had to wander off into the woods in a survival situation, I'd take the Mini before any of my ARs ... no doubt about it. If you decide to buy one, just realize what it is, what it's designed for and most importantly, what it's not.

:)

ArmedBear
July 30, 2009, 04:17 PM
True re shooting left-handed. The magazine release on the Mini is inferior, and the bolt release is right-handed.

The safety is personal preference, but it's ambidextrous on the standard Mini, not the standard AR.

WRT the pistol grip, the standard Mini points better, plain and simple. I don't have a folder on mine, and I don't want one. The collapsible AR makes a nicer "entry" weapon. As I wrote above.

My Mini has never had a FTF or FTE. Can't say that for the AR.

Note that I haven't sold off either.:)

dom1104
July 30, 2009, 04:23 PM
The Mini-14 is a MOM rifle


Wait.. what? a MOM rifle? hah.. ok thats a first. I like it :) So you are saying, this is like the Dodge Neon of the gun world? a "Chick Gun"?

Well I have found its niche.

ergonomic, light, short, maneuverable, INCREDIBLY reliable, low recoiling and accurate enough for just about any PRACTICAL scenario.

Hey watch it, your talking about my mom! lol...

This is by FAR the most humor I have had all day. I love it. Now whenever I see a mini I will think "mom gun". :)

Reid73
July 30, 2009, 04:25 PM
Pros:

(1) simple, reliable design;
(2) handy and easy to use;
(3) traditional styling.

Cons:

(1) factory magazines are expensive and not always available (after-market mags are often unreliable);
(2) out-of-the-box accuracy is typically mediocre at best;
(3) poor sights.

On balance, I would say that the pros outweigh the cons. But there are two other factors which, while they are unimportant to knowledgeable people, are very important to many potential purchasers:

(4) not used by any major military;
(5) low coolness factor (doesn't look like a 'machine gun').

I suspect that the above two factors are the most significant reasons why the Mini-14 is not more popular in today's gun market.

Ben Shepherd
July 30, 2009, 04:26 PM
Well, after all the A-team used them........:p;)

1858
July 30, 2009, 04:28 PM
Wait.. what? a MOM rifle? hah.. ok thats a first. I like it So you are saying, this is like the Dodge Neon of the gun world? a "Chick Gun"?

Well I have found its niche.

:D ... actually I meant Minute Of Man (MOM) .... but I like your interpretation better. But seriously, it's a great rifle for petite women. My wife is one of those typical Asian girls that is 5' and 100lb so size is a factor ... of the rifle don't you know!!

:)

Reid73
July 30, 2009, 04:30 PM
IIRC they were featured in The Usual Suspects, too. And don't forget In the Line of Duty: the FBI Murders.

Hollywood producers love the look of the stainless, folding-stock Mini!

dom1104
July 30, 2009, 04:33 PM
size IS a factor in that case.


You know this brings up something, I have been thinking about lately.

My wife is also of the 100 lbs variety, but about a foot taller than your beauty of the east. <that felt VERY odd and awkward to say, but I am just being goofy, the MOM gun thing just has me in a smile-riot>

She pretty much cant handle the shotgun with any enjoyment at all, the 44 mag levergun is punishing to her, she is a great shot with a 9mm pistol, but I really would like to get a home defense gun that is handier and packs a bit more punch.

What other guns does your wife find enjoyable? I dont know if .223 makes me feel safe enough, but the mini-30 maybe? at home defense ranges the accuracy is not as much of an issue as the ability for her to handle it.

Huh, MOM gun. I may be starting to be converted.

1858
July 30, 2009, 04:51 PM
She pretty much cant handle the shotgun with any enjoyment at all, the 44 mag levergun is punishing to her, she is a great shot with a 9mm pistol, but I really would like to get a home defense gun that is handier and packs a bit more punch.

What other guns does your wife find enjoyable? I dont know if .223 makes me feel safe enough, but the mini-30 maybe? at home defense ranges the accuracy is not as much of an issue as the ability for her to handle it.

:D (for your non-firearm related comments)

This is definitely an issue for those of us with smaller wives. Let's be honest, our wives aren't going to join us at the range or practice with any firearms if they don't enjoy shooting them. That's why the Mini-14 is a good fit for my wife. She can easily handle a Marlin lever action rifle in .45 Colt too ... all the way from zero recoil loads (Trail Boss) up to Ruger only loads (H110). With 10 rounds in the magazine and 250gr hard cast bullets, it's a formidable home defense rifle for any woman (or man). The shortest AR I have is a 16" barreled POF, but it's considerably heavier than a Mini or Marlin so not ideal for her.

In reality though, my wife would grab a handgun if the need for home defense ever arises, but she'd be every effective with the Mini too. Her favorite home defense pistol is "my" SIG 220 ... she's really good with that thing. She's told me that if I die before her, she's selling everything accept the 220, the 4" Python and the Mini. :(

:)

Reid73
July 30, 2009, 04:52 PM
She pretty much cant handle the shotgun with any enjoyment at all, the 44 mag levergun is punishing to her, she is a great shot with a 9mm pistol, but I really would like to get a home defense gun that is handier and packs a bit more punch.If your wife is not a firearms enthusiast, I'd suggest leaving well enough alone and simply encourage her to maintain proficiency with the 9mm that she shoots well and (presumably) is comfortable with. It is not perfect but then no gun is. A 9mm is certainly powerful enough for most defensive puposes; and I doubt that you're going to find something handier.

If your wife is a firearms enthusiast, she will likely prefer to experiment with various guns available at the range, rather than simply going with your recommendation (or mine).

1858
July 30, 2009, 04:57 PM
dom1104, I'd suggest a Marlin lever action in .357, .44 Mag or .45 Colt. Your wife can practice with very light loads with virtually zero recoil but once she's proficient, she can shoot full-power loads or anything in between. I don't know if you've ever seen any CAS events but there are thousands of women that are VERY competent with their lever actions.

:)

HoosierQ
July 30, 2009, 05:02 PM
I had one which I sold because I needed the money. I wish I had not. The 5 round mags were a real bummer but it was a nice rifle and fun to shoot. I had 8 of the 5 rounders and was looking to get two more so I could have 50 rounds loaded up.

I bought it from a buddy, like new, for $425. I honestly think that if that's what a NIB model could be had for, out the door, a lot less people would be bashing them. I have heard it said that the Mini-14 was the best $300 rifle that $700 could buy and I think there is a lot of truth to that.

Even though I liked mine more than well enough to want it back, if I could put together $700 I wouldn't buy a mini-14. You can get an Olympic Arms Plinker (AR-15) or a DPMS Sportical (slick-sided AR) for the same money NIB. That's a lot more gun.

No love for this gun because of the price I think.

fireman 9731
July 30, 2009, 05:03 PM
It is a RANCH rifle!

It was designed for a few quick shots, while being fielded from horseback, a 4 wheeler, or pickup truck.

When it was designed, It had nothing tacticool in mind, So don't try to make it something its not.

Use it for its intended purpose and it excels.

Ratshooter
July 30, 2009, 05:03 PM
No love for the Mini? I love mine and would never consider selling it. I have the new 580 with the flared barrel. With open sights I can shoot 3" groups at a hundred yards and I never stop at 5 round groups. I have no apparent problems with stringing after shooting a couple of 20 round mags either. Thats the best I can do with any open sighted rifle I own. I have no plans to put a scope on it.

I pick up ARs at every gun show I go to. I want to like those rifles but to me they feel awkward and clumsy. Most are way too heavy for the 223 round. And I know you can get other uppers but so what. If I want bigger I have two safes full of rifles that shoot bigger rounds.

As far as cost goes my local dealer has one of the synthetic stocked Minis with the flash hider for $679. I was in Academy yesterday and I believe the lowest priced AR they had was 1200 bucks. I paid $650 for mine OTD in nov. 08. Mine is a wood and stainless.

black_powder_Rob
July 30, 2009, 05:06 PM
To each their own I still like my Mini, but on the price note I was at a gun shop the other day and they said the price of "assault rifle" styled rifles prices were dropping and the market is being flooded with them. He said he had several AR's that are in his shop and he can't sell them, he even said he has had to turn people away that were trying to trade or sell theirs..

I think the in store prices on the new guns will drop even lower soon. oh and when I bought my Mini (pre-election) it was right under $600 and came with a 5 round clip and a 20 rounder(both factory)

ArmedBear
July 30, 2009, 05:08 PM
Use it for its intended purpose and it excels.


Hmmm...

I wonder what targets would be fun to shoot from a moving Jeep...

I can drop the windshield and the passenger could plink. Not really safe on a rough trail, though...:)

black_powder_Rob
July 30, 2009, 05:11 PM
don't forget about hoarse back. I could see it now somebody playing cow boys and indians with a mini 14 on hoarse back. lol:what:

ArmedBear
July 30, 2009, 05:19 PM
It WOULD be fun to drive around and shoot at strategically-placed Tannerite from a Jeep, but I don't think you're supposed to be too close when it goes off.:D

A horse would probably be so spooked after the first couple blasts that you'd end up 20 miles away before you could say "whoa.":)

DammitBoy
July 30, 2009, 05:32 PM
Min i-14's are great little rifles if you have the right twist and the correct weight bullet running through it.

Ruger made a huge mistake with the rate of twist and it didn't shoot the lighter 50 grain bullets for crap.

Armed012002
July 30, 2009, 06:01 PM
The Mini never really attracted my attention because of the price, ergonomics, and accuracy (as compared to the AR-15).

Based on BudsGunShop.com pricing:

A Mini 14 Tactical sells for $656.

A Smith & Wesson M&P15 with Magpul accessories sells for $961.

So for $305 more I can buy an AR with superior ergonomics and accuracy.

Of course, ergonomics is subjective. I prefer how an AR handles compared to the M14, M1A, Mini, etc. Some people prefer the M14, M1A, Mini, etc.

The accuracy potential of the AR is pretty well known as is the poor accuracy reputation of the Mini. That isn't to say the Mini is terribly inaccurate, but rather, the AR gives greater accuracy potential for a little more money.

Ignition Override
July 30, 2009, 06:20 PM
An Army Special Forces veteran of Iraq back in Desert Storm told me about the so-called reliability of their rifles. A recent veteran who is at Ft. Riley, KS told me about problems in the recent fighting.

The former SF guy ("Rick") told me that in order to have reliable weapons, they picked up AKs and used them.
If the Mini 14 (with a factory mag) is America's AK, then it should work. How often is civilian self-defense at more than 100 feet, unless one is an LEO?

My Mini 14 never had a single glitch with 1,200 rounds of Wolf/S. Bear, even with a large plastic mag from Promag, which had a wobbly fit. The choices of aftermarkets mags appear to be the main issue with the Mini 14 and 30.
Careless people who seldom clean gun chambers etc also appear to be an issue, based on gun smiths' evaluations.

kwelz
July 30, 2009, 09:15 PM
I call BS on the above post. I can point to numerous posters here, on ARF.com and on M4C.net that are active military or PMC and have never had to or heard of others having to ditch thier issued guns and get AKs.

Now is it possible some Special forces units that were working with Indigenous Populations used AKs so they either A: Blend in better or B: could share parts and ammo? Sure. but there is no way they were picking up AKs for front line service.

HorseSoldier
July 30, 2009, 09:59 PM
+1 on the BS. I've worked with and worked for a whole bunch of SF guys and never known one of them who'd take and AK over an M4 or M16 by preference, and only a couple who ever carried AKs operationally (and they were deployed somewhere where the host nation provided their weapons).

I did have a squad leader back in the day who used to tell us how he'd carried an AKM as a PFC during part of Desert Storm -- not because his M16A2 wouldn't run, but because then he didn't have to clean his issued weapon. His immediate chain of command didn't stop him when he grabbed it out of a bunker somewhere but made him ditch it when the ground war wrapped up a couple days later.

If the Mini 14 (with a factory mag) is America's AK, then it should work. How often is civilian self-defense at more than 100 feet, unless one is an LEO?

Mini-14s don't have a very stellar reputation among professional instructors who teach carbine shooting for a living. "American AK" may be accurate in the accuracy department, but the Mini isn't AK tough under serious use.

EvanWilliams
July 30, 2009, 11:02 PM
I don't need an AR. I have a great shooting mini 14. Some ammo is terrible in it. WWB 45gr JHP (wal mart value pack 40 rounds) it loves. I guess that limits me somewhat in terms of ammo but I doubt anyone would want to get shot by it.

Deer Hunter
July 30, 2009, 11:06 PM
I don't need an AR

Neither do I.

But I own one.

kmrcstintn
July 30, 2009, 11:31 PM
back in 2002-2003 I got into semiauto rifles with a base blued & wood Mini-14; I was still a bit naive and was 'talked out' of my Mini-14 and into a more expensive and more finicky Bushmaster AR-15 which I traded off in less than 6 months for a Benelli semiauto shotgun; my overall accuracy with the Mini-14 wasn't as good as with the AR-15, but I could run more rounds thru it per shooting session and had less cleaning & maintenance after each range trip

now I'd consider myself fortunate to get a nice used Mini-14 for about the same price as a entry level offbrand AR-15...I can't believe how much they cost!!!

weeniewawa
July 31, 2009, 04:13 AM
Well, after all the A-team used them........

and they couldn't hit a thing ;)

DammitBoy
July 31, 2009, 11:32 AM
The most I ever paid for a used mini-14 was $500 and that was for a stainless ranch. I've never had any troubles with accuracy but that's because I shoot a 70-75 grain round.

I've bought three for less than $300, but that was several years ago. Don't like the look of the new ones and there is nothing wrong with my mini-14 ranch so I don't need to upgrade.

SwampWolf
July 31, 2009, 12:17 PM
I've always thought of a Mini-14 (conceptionally) as an M1 carbine with a more effective cartridge. I've had a Mini since 1985 and it has always performed reliably, handles well and will shoot three shot groups, from a rest, through a cool barrel, with the factory irons, using factory ammunition, under three inches all day long. I use an AR-15 to shoot service rifle matches (with the stock military style aperture sight) competitively and it is a tack-driver with a sweet (RRA 2-stage match) trigger. When not shooting matches, the carry handle comes off and a Burris "tactical" 3X9 scope goes on, using Weaver quick detachable mounts; transforming my match rifle into a very effective woodchuck slayer.

For home defense purposes, the Mini with the factory peep and the factory 20 round magazine, is my close-quarters, "fighting" carbine. The AR-15 National Match rifle, especially when equipped with a good scope, is my long range, "sniping" rifle. I'd hate to be without either.

HexHead
July 31, 2009, 12:27 PM
Well, after all the A-team used them........

Yeah, and they never hit anyone with them either. All that "praying and spraying", and never a hit. LOLOLOL

Thomas Garrett
July 31, 2009, 01:08 PM
I love my stainless ranch model.

Dravur
July 31, 2009, 01:57 PM
Or.....

we could all buy whatever we wanted. If you want wood, get the mini. If you liek plastic, get the AR.

See? simple, get whatever you want and don't let people on the interweb influence you. OR, if you are that easily influenced, then you need to send all your guns to me.

Except the Minis. I can't stand them.

mp5a3
July 31, 2009, 02:03 PM
2 questions about the mags.

1. Why are they so high ?

2. Is there a conversion kit that allows use of AR15 mags ?

Reid73
July 31, 2009, 02:14 PM
1. They are relatively high because they are a proprietary product and Ruger can charge whatever the market will bear. Also (of less importance) they are made of steel rather than cheap aluminum or plastic.

2. I don't know of a conversion kit or adaptor but it is a big world and I bet someone has done it. However, the cost is probably not worth it. Just buy three or four Ruger factory mags and you are good to go ... nobody needs 50 spare magazines, although some people want them (for reasons only they know).

P.S. Everything is relative. If you think Ruger magazines are expensive, try pricing a spare / replacement for the Tikka T3: one of the world's most expensive pieces of formed plastic, and it only holds three rounds!

mljdeckard
July 31, 2009, 02:16 PM
Because I think my Tapcoed SKS is at least as good, cheaper, with cheaper ammo.

fatelk
July 31, 2009, 02:20 PM
Mini-14 quality over the years must have been real hit and miss (pardon the pun).

The only one I've ever owned (still own) is an old 182 series that has always been totally reliable with good magazines, and reasonably accurate. It will consistently group around 2moa with good ammo, iron sights. I've had it for nearly 20 years, my dad paid around $350 as I recall (too much at the time, I thought).

I rarely shoot it anymore, but I enjoy shooting it more than an AR15, myself. It has more of an "old style" feel to it, that some like and some don't. I prefer the traditional wood-and-steel look, but I readily admit the AR/M16 is undoubtedly a superior combat rifle. I just don't feel the need to play soldier, and I'm not into tactical. That's just me; to each their own.:)

If I had gotten a bad one that jammed up and wouldn't shoot straight, I'm sure I would have a different opinion. I sure don't think I would pay $700 for one either. The prices on new guns these days blows me away, guess that's why I like the old surplus stuff. For $700 I can buy a service grade M1 Garand, with money left for ammo.

Added: I get a kick out of watching old A-Team reruns. They're so corny that they are hilarious! I think the reason that they never hit anything had something to do with blank ammo.:D My four year old daughter would get upset and tell me turn turn off that "naughty" show, because they aren't being careful with their rifles (I've taught her well:)). My 3yo son, on the other hand, thought it was GREAT STUFF. He thinks MR. T is COOL!

RP88
July 31, 2009, 02:32 PM
Two things I can add:

one: for the same price of an average Mini, you could get a Del-ton kit and lower and have more accuracy and utility for the same price. Now, you probably won't have the "America's AK" reliability, but the AR is way more reliable than what people give it credit for. The killer of the mini is its price point, IMO. It needs more competitive pricing in order for at least me to see the point in getting one over a second AR.

two: US soliders have never ditched their M16s and M4s for AKs. However, they have been known to double up and take an AK as a secondary rifle if they feel like they have the room and muscle to spare for the added weight of the AK and ammo (look on youtube for yourself; there are vids of them doing it and using them in that exact fashion). They pretty much use it like a throw-away gun; good for suppressive fire and the like, and if it overheats or if they run out of ammo they can just throw it and no harm done. They don't waste as much as their ammo or wear their primary rifle that way. However, I've read that picking up an AK at all for any reason other than to turn it in or dispose of it, etc. can also get you fined in certain services, companies, and what not. Not sure if that is true or not, but I would personally imagine that the COs would not like it if marines were using AKs over their issued weapons.

Reid73
July 31, 2009, 02:33 PM
I get a kick out of watching old A-Team reruns. They're so corny that they are hilarious!High camp. I used to watch Matt Houston re-runs for the same reason.

http://evildallas.com/gt/matt_houston2.jpg

cleetus03
July 31, 2009, 02:33 PM
If the Mini-14 could accept AR mags the love would be overbearing......

Reid73
July 31, 2009, 02:34 PM
a throw-away gun; good for suppressive fire and the likeKinda like an AR! ;)

black_powder_Rob
July 31, 2009, 03:28 PM
:uhoh: uh oh BURN

J/K

1858
July 31, 2009, 03:28 PM
2. Is there a conversion kit that allows use of AR15 mags ?

About 12 years ago I bought a 30-round plastic magazine that works in both the Mini-14 and AR15. The problem with it back then was that the feed lips weren't stiff or strong enough but the concept was sound.

Hogue makes a really good, low cost stock for the Mini which increases the LOP and improves the Mini's handling. Accuracy Systems has an adjustable gas block and extended magazine release (I have both) and a bunch of other stuff available.

http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/index.php

If you're so inclined, Troy is now offering a modular stock for the Mini.

http://troyind.com/productMINI14.html

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/pof/troy/mini_troy.jpg

:)

NC-Mike
July 31, 2009, 04:46 PM
I owned a mini and had all the accompanying headaches. :(

Aftermarket mags that plain wouldn't work. :(

45 dollar Precision Mag Industries were the only aftermarket mags that did work, but they were 45 dollars each... :uhoh:

50 dollar factory mags. :uhoh:

Severe stringing with a hot barrel. I saw rounds dropping into the dirt 30 feet in front of 300 yard targets, essentially making my rifle useless. The best way to engage a target when my mini was hot was to throw the rifle at it. :p

So after putting close to 400 dollars into 8 magazines and doing numerous tweaks to the rifle, including cutting the barrel to 16.25", I finally realized that I had it running almost like an AR. :banghead:

So I sold it off for a terrible loss and have since bought 4 AR's and a Sig-556.

I don't miss it at all. :p



Here's a picture of the beast as it last was.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/Mike____Smith/Collection/Mini-14002.jpg

RP88
July 31, 2009, 05:26 PM
Kinda like an AR!

Touche!

niteowl
July 31, 2009, 05:28 PM
If I had to guess, I'd say that Special Agents Gerald Dove and Benjamin Grogan, and U.S. Marshal Kenneth Muir and Deputy Marshal Bob Cheshire probably showed no love for the Mini 14. As well as 14 people from École Polytechnique in Canada. But for reasons unsaid in this thread. The rifle sucks so much, they were all killed by one. That's curious, because ever since the Internet came about, people have been saying that these rifles couldn't hit the side of a barn?

Bottom line, they are a damn good minute of man (or coyote) rifle. Don't expect much more than that.

And I agree... They could and should be cheaper. I bought my 580 series for $549 about a year and a half ago. Now I see them selling for $700-800. ridiculous...

1858
July 31, 2009, 05:35 PM
NC-Mike, that scope mount that you had on your non-ranch version is a total POS and could easily explain your accuracy issues. How do I know, because I had the same mount on a non-ranch version and it was absolutely useless and couldn't hold zero to save its life. That's why I got rid of that rifle and bought a ranch version. As for magazines, I have no problems with any factory magazines (four) or aftermarket magazines (5). Also, my ranch rifle is confirmed good for at least 2' elevation (approx. +/- 4 MOA) and 1' windage (approx. +/- 2 MOA) at 300 yards with a hot or cold barrel. That's the size and orientation of a steel plate at the local range ... basically a man-sized center of mass target.

I think that a Mini-14 and an AR-15 (or variant) make a good pair just like an M1A and an AR-10 (or variant) make a good pair.

NC-Mike, how's the accuracy of that SIG working out for you? From what I've read, they've been a total disappointment for many.

:)

NC-Mike
July 31, 2009, 05:51 PM
NC-Mike, that scope mount that you had on your non-ranch version is a total POS and could easily explain your accuracy issues. How do I know, because I had the same mount on a non-ranch version and it was absolutely useless and couldn't hold zero to save its life. That's why I got rid of that rifle and bought a ranch version. As for magazines, I have no problems with any factory magazines (four) or aftermarket magazines (5). Also, my ranch rifle is confirmed good for at least 2' elevation (approx. +/- 4 MOA) and 1' windage (approx. +/- 2 MOA) at 300 yards with a hot or cold barrel. That's the size and orientation of a steel plate at the local range ... basically a man-sized center of mass target.

I think that a Mini-14 and an AR-15 (or variant) make a good pair just like an M1A and an AR-10 (or variant) make a good pair.

NC-Mike, how's the accuracy of that SIG working out for you? From what I've read, they've been a total disappointment for many.


That mount required some tweaking but it would return to zero. It was a B-Square mount and it had adjusting screws on it that weren't set-up right when I bought the rifle. As I say, after I did many things to that mini, it was a solid 3 to 4 minute of angle rifle, whether the barrel was hot or not using run of the mill, non-match ammo. The barrel cutting helped the most but I also retorqued the gas block and floated the barrel. I put a nice target crown on that barrel after cutting it and the heavy brake seemed to help as well. I just didn't have any love for it, so when the purge came along, it went along with a bunch of other stuff and that's when I got the Sig.

As for that Sig, I haven't shot it nearly enough to see what its doing. I just checked my log and I have all of 380 rounds through that rifle. Most of which was using an EOTech with a 3x magnifier. I have since discovered I can't use a holosight due to a bad astigmatism I have and I still don't have another optic mounted on the Sig yet. That is next of my list of things to do. For some reason I haven't been doing nearly enough shooting or tinkering lately.

From what shooting I did with the Sig, it seemed accurate enough. I was getting 3 MOA using 55 grain plinking ammo. I figure heavy match ammo might bring down to 1 or 1.5 MOA. I like the Sig but it is a little heavy up front.

Reid73
July 31, 2009, 05:58 PM
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/sm14-min-b0bt-00-2.jpg

Man is that horrible. :barf: The worst of both worlds. Wretched!

If someone wants an AR-15 they should just buy one. Trying to turn a Mini-14 into an AR-15 is senseless.

NC-Mike
July 31, 2009, 06:05 PM
If someone wants an AR-15 they should just buy one. Trying to turn a Mini-14 into an AR-15 is senseless.

Tell me about it. :evil:

1858
July 31, 2009, 06:17 PM
Man is that horrible. The worst of both worlds. Wretched! If someone wants an AR-15 they should just buy one. Trying to turn a Mini-14 into an AR-15 is senseless.

Heck, I'm just showing folks what's available or possible ... I'm certainly not going to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't want, do or buy ... I'll leave that to you.

:)

Hammerhead6814
July 31, 2009, 08:53 PM
Why no love for Mini's? Because you can get a new AR-15 for less.

Ratshooter
July 31, 2009, 09:27 PM
Why no love for Mini's? Because you can get a new AR-15 for less.

I paid $680 for my mini in wood and stainless steel. Where can I get an AR for less? And no I don't want a parts gun I have to put together myself. Is this one of the "out of spec" guns that so many people start threads about?

You know, like "How do I properly stake the gas key"? Or "Whats the best replacement trigger"? Or "Do I have M4 feed ramps and if not how often will my gun jam"? Or the best of all "How many quarts of oil does my gun hold so it won't go dry and jam"?

NC-Mike
July 31, 2009, 09:33 PM
I paid $680 for my mini in wood and stainless steel. Where can I get an AR for less?

AR's are better guns, thats why they cost more... :p

Todd1700
July 31, 2009, 09:55 PM
The Mini never really attracted my attention because of the price, ergonomics, and accuracy (as compared to the AR-15).

Pretty much my take as well. If the newer ones are more accuarte as some say then perhaps my perception of these rifles is out of date. But the ones I shot way back when, were disappointingly inaccurate even by standard semi auto rifle standards. I have an old Remington Model 7400 semi-auto rifle that seemed like a custom benchrest rifle compared to the Mini 14's I shot back in the day. LOL!

Well, after all the A-team used them........
and they couldn't hit a thing


LOL! I used to wonder why they fired so many shots on that show and never hit anything. Then I fired my first Mini 14 and said, "Ooooh, now I see." LOL!

Ratshooter
July 31, 2009, 10:01 PM
AR's are better guns, thats why they cost more

HaHa NC. THATS an opinion and your entitled to yours. Thankfully we live in a place where we can buy what we want and not what somebody tells us we need. Like health care.

I'm just waiting on Hammerhead to show where those less than $680 ARs are to be found. If I find one and it doesn't weigh 8-9 pounds I will buy it just to see for myself why these rifles are so popular. I wanted one of the Charles Daly DR-15 rifles. I bid on one repeatedly on GB but never won it. A thousand bucks wouldn't get it. I think it sold for around $1100.00.

My friend bought one of the S&W a while back and got the sigma for a $100 extra with it. He paid $850 IIRC for the AR. He has never shot it. I have been after him to take it out so I could shoot it a little. Heck, I may end up being a big AR convert. But I still won't sell my mini. :neener:

NC-Mike
July 31, 2009, 10:15 PM
I'm just waiting on Hammerhead to show where those less than $680 ARs are to be found.

I'm very sorry but I already told you you'll have to pay more for a AR.

They are quality rifles and that cost money. :neener:






But I bet you can find one in 22LR for that price if you look around. :p




Hmmm, they don't make mini-14's in 22LR, do they... :scrutiny:

Deer Hunter
July 31, 2009, 10:17 PM
I built my AR for like $550. And it has never failed.

But I must have one of those Anecdotal ARs.

Ratshooter
July 31, 2009, 10:21 PM
Hello Tood1700. Basing your opinion on an early mini compared to a new mini doesn't give you a fair look at the picture.

It's like saying Ford autos are unsuitable for Nascar racing because the wood spoked wheels can't take the high speed turns. Guess what? Ford has upgraded and they make superb autos for using as a bases for a race car.

Its the same with the mini. It took awhile (too long) but Ruger made some real changes and improved their product. Yes the early guns weren't very good at all in the accuracy department. My buddy had one of the early guns and that was his only complaint. He sold the gun and regrets it to this day.

When it comes to price I don't worry about it too much. If I want it, I buy it. As far as fit goes thats up to each person.

NC-Mike
July 31, 2009, 10:24 PM
He sold the gun and regrets it to this day.

I kinda feel the same way about the mini I sold.

To this day, I regret I ever bought that thing! :cuss:




:p

Ignition Override
July 31, 2009, 10:29 PM
Mine was as reliable as the "cherry" SKS, but already having a Mini-30, sold the -14 to justify buying my first Lee-Enfield, the #5 "Jungle Carbine".

Azizza and HorseSoldier.: Can't blame your skepticism.
Those words on page 2 came from the SF veteran of Desert Storm, and were his words-not mine.
Send me a pm ('thr' e-mail) and at your request I'll leave a note in the former SF guy's company mailbox, when I'm going through our Detroit crewbase in about a week or more, in order to ask Rick P. for his cell phone number. He can tell you what unit he was with and where they operated back then. Maybe you can ask another SF veteran to cross-check his name somewhere.

You veterans all earn our respect and my instinct is not to second-guess what veterans state 'in person' about skirmishes and larger battles, including their choice of reliable rifles etc. Sometimes the chat on a hotel shuttle van only lasts a very few minutes and we never hear the context or situation.
Excuse me...need to go clean my Lee-Enfield #4.

Ratshooter
July 31, 2009, 10:30 PM
NC I don't beleive the mini has ever been a 22lr shooter. Thats no matter to me I have proper 22s out the wahzoo and wouldn't buy the conversion if they did.

Deerhunter when did you build you $550 dollar gun? I have looked at lowers and uppers and the price to build a gun seems to be way above that amount now. I would rather just buy a gun ready to go anyway.

Ratshooter
July 31, 2009, 10:34 PM
To this day, I regret I ever bought that thing!

HaHa thats funny. I feel the same way about the Charter Arms AR-7 I bought. That was a great survival rifle. Everything I shot it at survived unharmed.

NC-Mike
August 1, 2009, 12:47 AM
haha thats funny. I feel the same way about the charter arms ar-7 i bought. That was a great survival rifle. Everything i shot it at survived unharmed.

:d

That's a good one!

Darth AkSarBen
August 1, 2009, 10:17 AM
I have had both the mini-14 and mini-30. I shot LOTS of prairie dogs with a mini-14. If you are not that accurate, you don't shoot a lot of prairie dogs. Handload help, as well as paying attention to the front piece that the gas block attaches to the rifle. Keep the gaps even and at same torque. The newer heavier barreled seem to help. most were hoping for 1-2" groups at 100 yards out of the box. Some are exceptional and will do this. Most need a bit of tweaking or handload or both.

Hammerhead6814
August 1, 2009, 10:38 AM
I paid $680 for my mini in wood and stainless steel. Where can I get an AR for less? And no I don't want a parts gun I have to put together myself. Is this one of the "out of spec" guns that so many people start threads about?

I mean new AR's to new Mini-14's. Ruger and several dealers in my area market them for around $800-900. You can get a DPMS Sportical+ (the one with the forward assist), for around $725. Cheapest Mini's I've found, NEW, for sale at shows have been $800+. Finding a complete lower and upper and putting two and two together comes to around $600-700, and a new Sportical around $700 again.

Hence, AR-15's are now cheaper than Mini's. Oh sure, in the past Ruger actually new how much their rifles were worth, but with the panic came the kind of greed that makes me scratch my head. DPMS is backed up on orders for their Sportical's and Sportical's with the assist, yet they're shoving them out the door for around $700-$725.

black_powder_Rob
August 1, 2009, 11:21 AM
Wow so your saying that a AR 15 new sportcal is close to the same price as the Kel Tec SU16 :uhoh: and the SU-16c cost more than a AR. hmm interesting.

Buying guns is like buying cars, the manufacturer may suggest a price and the dealers set their own. It has been my experience that at gunshows there are a lot of people who are just trying to make as much as they can and don't care who they rip off.

also I believe the price of AR's will be falling even lower as the multiple manufactures raced to put out more AR's and the market for them has fallen off some.

yokel
August 1, 2009, 11:55 AM
Well, scoffers can scoff and be damned, as far as i'm concerned, because my two trusty 'ol Minis were procured for plinking/home defense rather than National Match competition or tactical super sniper use.

Perhaps not everyone has the time or propensity for competitive shooting activities?

For a yokel like myself, the Mini is more than adequate for delivering a high velocity flat trajectory round at extreme close range.

NC-Mike
August 1, 2009, 12:05 PM
For a yokel like myself, the Mini is more than adequate for delivering a high velocity flat trajectory round at extreme close range.

That really goes to the heart of many people's discontent with the mini. It destroys the capability and usefulness of the .223 :banghead:

While the newer mini's may be better, there are still a ton of them out there that will never be able to hit a damn thing past 200 yards once they get their barrel hot.

And the mini-lovers will always say, its a ranch rifle, its meant for one shot, then a follow up shot or two... Than there are the people who muddy that argument with their announcement that the mini is their HD gun... :banghead:

Guess what, there is a fine HD-type gun chambered for the .223. It's called the AR and its designed just for that purpose. :cool:

Ratshooter
August 1, 2009, 12:09 PM
Hammerhead I had a look at the dpms sportical. That one don't do it for me. No carry handle, no bayonet lug and no foward assist. I don't like the flattops.

I do like the lightweight 20. The only thing I would change on it was to add a chrome lined barrel. And naturally its out of stock. The 7.5 lbs weight is in the correct range. It was $725 or $757 with the chome barrel. Thats a fair price for me.

I read all the threads here about ARs. Particularly the one about whats the best AR to get. I thought DPMS was rated about second from the bottom over Olympic Arms. Every rifle that is recommended starts at a thousand bucks and goes up from there.

I still see minis around here for $625 to $700. My local GS has the blued, plastic stock with a flash hider on it for $679 + tax and he is normally a little high. The Academy finally got a blued/wood in but I didn't look at the price. Wasn't any point. I have mine and don't plan on buying another. I am always on the hunt for something new though.

There is a gunshow next weekend in dallas. I will be there with a pocket full of cash.

yokel
August 1, 2009, 12:40 PM
That really goes to the heart of many people's discontent with the mini. It destroys the capability and usefulness of the .223

While the newer mini's may be better, there are still a ton of them out there that will never be able to hit a damn thing past 200 yards once they get their barrel hot.

And the mini-lovers will always say, its a ranch rifle, its meant for one shot, then a follow up shot or two... Than there are the people who muddy that argument with their announcement that the mini is their HD gun...

Guess what, there is a fine HD-type gun chambered for the .223. It's called the AR and its designed just for that purpose.

Reliability and lethality are more important to me than any other consideration or factor, and it ought to be apparent that with proper shot placement 5.56×45mm/.223 Remington ammo will defeat the target without issue at extreme close ranges.

On the other hand, lethality is not always necessary; an assailant who is no longer willing or able to perform a meaningful task may be as good as dead under most circumstances.

Apparently I harbor no illusions about being a warfighter who might find himself engaging a 5-man team of Taliban spotted at 200 yards away standing by a village mud building.

Shung
August 1, 2009, 12:51 PM
I watched A-team a lot when I was a kid.. I don't want a gun unable to wound or kill something or someone ;)

James Piper
August 1, 2009, 01:23 PM
is mini 14 good for deer hunting

Darth AkSarBen
August 1, 2009, 01:41 PM
.223 is a bit loud for Home Defense. I would consider it "Home Deafness" as I would not hear anything again after firing one inside my house. A couple of .45 ACP I have handy will suffice to discourage the intruder(s). My 2 small dogs take off when I pull it out for shooting. They don't like the noise either, and THEY'RE INSIDE!....LOL.. btw, it's not a Mini. AK make great home defense rifles as well, but as mentioned, would not be the first pick to shoot inside a closed in space.
http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/guns/saiga_223_target-7-18-09.jpg

I've got another picture of it shooting a grop with Benchmark powder that has 3 shots in one hole.

http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/guns/3shot_group_closer2.jpg

And me holding the target. You can see the Streamlight Scorpion 1" light attached with a removable light holder setup. 86 lumens really lights up a tree at night. Mr. Raccoon gets a good illuminations before he comes down out of the tree in a hurry. Good rifle.
http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/guns/vern_3shotGroup.jpg

http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/guns/saiga_223_converted_rs1.jpg

Reliable as the day is long and for $400 for a basic rifle. Chrome lined 16" barrel.

NC-Mike
August 1, 2009, 01:42 PM
Apparently I harbor no illusions about being a warfighter who might find himself engaging a 5-man team of Taliban spotted at 200 yards away standing by a village mud building.

:D

200 yards is a wussy shot! :rolleyes:

We're talkin 600 meter shots from a moving vehicle, while taking enemy fire! You need the right equipment for those circumstances and the lowly mini just does not measure up! :barf:

Git yerself the proper tool: America's Rifle, the AR! :cool:

:neener:

NC-Mike
August 1, 2009, 01:47 PM
Reliable as the day is long and for $400 for a basic rifle. Chrome lined 16" barrel.

Did you convert it yourself?

I know folks love their Saiga's. I don't believe I ever heard anyone gripe about one. Ever...

Mini-14 owners should sit down and ponder why their firestick of choice inspires such vitriolic outbursts. :D

TomADC
August 1, 2009, 01:50 PM
I've have one I bought 26 years ago, don't shoot it as much as I used to but I love it.

RDCL
August 1, 2009, 02:02 PM
I did'nt purchase my mini 14 because I inherited it. I have yet to shoot it, so I cannot speak for it's accuracy or lack of. I'm not sure of it's exact age but I do know it is approx. 15 years old.....and the saying goes that the older they are the worse they are....but I won't know until I can get out and shoot the thing.

As for the OPs question, I think the supposed "hate" of the little mini is only magnified by its popularity. Their are LOTS of them out there and you'll find just as many people lovin' the mini as you will hatin' it. It's like anyhing else....the more popular something is the bigger the "hate" group will be wether you're talking about cars, guns or whatever. In the "car world" lots of people looked down on the Chevy Cavalier.....yet Chevy sold god-zillions of them.

.....maybe the mini 14 is the "Cavalier" of the gun world!:)


Russ

NC-Mike
August 1, 2009, 02:26 PM
.....maybe the mini 14 is the "Cavalier" of the gun world!

Thank You!!!

That's what I keep trying to explain to them! :D

http://citizented.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/chevrolet-cavalier-sedan-1.jpg

Darth AkSarBen
August 1, 2009, 04:39 PM
".....maybe the mini 14 is the "Cavalier" of the gun world!"

I was thinking more like "Yugo" myself. :neener: I have the Mini-14 on my list of interesting rifles to own, and I actually converted my new Saiga to sell for enough cash to buy the Mini-14 Tactical, but have now thought differently since my recent encounters with the handloads and the .223 Saiga. Gunsmith at local gun store in Kalamazoo told me that last group I shot that was in one hole just jumped the price of the resale of the rifle to $1000.00 I don't know about that, but when you have one that performs like that you really hate to get rid of it.

Yes, I did all the conversion (fire control group, pistol grip, fore grip, etc.) myself. I have a Tapco G2 that I modified myself, cutting the one side down a bit to allow for the bolt hold open. Took off the knob that might interfere with the frame. POLISHED the hammer and sear let-off so that now it is butter smooth. Do drag, no creep, just squeeze back and it lets go without any second stage. Needs a better scope. POS Telstar I have had around for years, and put it on. This also has rubber rail covers that are easy enough to remove if I need the extra rails. They come from http://www.tufforce.com/ which also supplied the side mount for the scope. Comes with 4 covers in one package, so I still have one cover in the drawer. Side flashlight works great. Rail covers also add a bit of extra grip without being too abrasive.

.45FMJoe
August 1, 2009, 05:22 PM
Because I don't have a use for a shotgun in .223.


:D

rudyak
August 1, 2009, 05:52 PM
Why no one has any respect for the mini? Where to start?

Does not meet NATO requirement for the use of the M16 magazine. Proprietary hi-cap magazines not available to 'civilians' until recently. Aftermarket magazines are a hit and miss proposition, usually a miss.

Extremely poor sights. The front tapered post does not allow one to estimate range.

As for those that are constantly telling everyone that they are scaled down M14/M1 Garands, I say, "Show me their gas piston." It has none. It uses the gas impingment system, just as the AR does. The mini's system is inverted and only 1/2 as long as the AR's. Tapping gas that close to the chamber is asking for trouble. The gas is EXTREMELY hot, over 1200 degrees. It contains burning and unburnt powder (contaminates}. Why do you think the rifles with the wooden stocks contained an aluminum liner? To stop the stocks from catching on fire!

The rifle failed military testing in Norway, Honderaus, and Guatamala because it is not built to military standards of dependability.

If your rifle breaks, you are required to send it into Ruger for repairs. It will sit there for 30-90 days, in which time you must rely on another rifle.

If you have made any modifications to the rifle such as replaced the sights, it is returned with a note that it is no longer covered under warranty. Try buying/stocking any parts for it. Good luck.

I see several minis that have M4 collapable stocks now. Makes them look like an AR-wanna-be. If you put lipstick on a pig, you still have a pig.

They are average plinkers, and suited for being a trunk gun. They are a sorry excuse for a combat/defensive rifle.

I've never missed the 1 that I owned.

1858
August 1, 2009, 06:11 PM
Because I don't have a use for a shotgun in .223.

I was experimenting with some 77gr SMKs last year with good results at 50 yards. This is with a bone stock barrel and action in a Hogue stock. I bought mine 12 years ago so it's not one of the new "accurized" versions.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/mini14/mini14_77gr.jpg

It uses the gas impingment system, just as the AR does .... Tapping gas that close to the chamber is asking for trouble. The gas is EXTREMELY hot, over 1200 degrees.

Huh? There's no gas going back into the action. In fact, the Mini gas system is much closer to the AK than an AR with the piston being directly connected to the bolt "carrier". The center of the gas block on my Mini is 9-1/2" from the receiver ... the center of the gas block on my POF 16" carbine is 8" from the receiver.

:)

Darth AkSarBen
August 1, 2009, 06:14 PM
Bill Ruger is supposed to have been quoted this about the Mini-14.." They are the worlds most expensive plinker".
Don't have any links to back that up, just what I have heard before. I can buy parts for my firearm, or get them off some other deceased firearm that is AK based. Most of the Ak parts fit from one to another. Need a firing pin? No problem. You could probably even make one.

Shadow 7D
August 1, 2009, 06:28 PM
Because I can shoot my SKS, and consider it and the mini 30 to be interchangeable in all uses, and with the difference I bought ammo (I now realize not enough)

And for those prices I can buy a Little Black Rifle..... If I was into that

1858
August 1, 2009, 06:29 PM
I can buy parts for my firearm, or get them off some other deceased firearm that is AK based. Most of the Ak parts fit from one to another. Need a firing pin? No problem. You could probably even make one.

That's right, there aren't any parts available for the Mini-14 .... :rolleyes: ... not to mention the fact that I haven't had to change/replace a single part on two of mine despite thousands of rounds sent downrange.

Midway (http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseCategories.aspx?tabId=9&categoryId=11652&categoryString=10636***10560***9142***)
Brownell's (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=mini+14/t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=mini_14)
Accuracy Systems (http://www.ruger-mini-14-firearms.com/ruger_mini_prices.php)

This is easy folks, if you don't like the Mini-14 then don't @#$%ing by one and stop bitching about them. I like mine and yet I have a number of other rifles in my collection costing 10 times as much. I have two ARs that cost around $2,500 each with all the bells and whistles but I won't be getting rid of my Mini ... EVER!!

:)

jackdanson
August 1, 2009, 07:50 PM
I kind of like them, but every time I'm about to buy one I think... "well two or three hundred more and I'll have a nice AR....."

gunnutery
August 1, 2009, 08:10 PM
On balance, I would say that the pros outweigh the cons. But there are two other factors which, while they are unimportant to knowledgeable people, are very important to many potential purchasers:

(4) not used by any major military;
(5) low coolness factor (doesn't look like a 'machine gun').

I do believe the Mini 14 was used by the Irish defense forces for a time. However that's not really a "major" military force.

I like my Mini 14 anyway. It's very simple to clean and maintain and it's inner workings are not overly complicated (which keeps in line with K.I.S.S.)

Bartholomew Roberts
August 1, 2009, 09:28 PM
The Mini-14 is a great $400-450 plinker/ranch rifle. My only problem with the Mini is when someone asks me to pay $750-800 for one or wants to use it outside of where it works well.

jimmyraythomason
August 1, 2009, 09:43 PM
I only let my stainless ranch rifle go because the fellow wanted it so badly. He traded me a brand new Wby. Vanguard in .270 win. w/Aeotec scope and a NIB BHP P-35 Hungarian clone in .45 acp. he still has it and loves it! I gave my Mini-30 to my daughter because she loves it and can shoot it so well. I am seriously considering trading her my Bushmaster ES-15 AR for it back!

DennyF
August 1, 2009, 10:05 PM
Have a Mini 14 and a Mini 30. Don't have but about $650 in both of 'em, both bought used in mint condition. Both work fine, are very reliable and are fairly accurate, which is all I ask of a semi in either of those two cartridges. Both will do minute of multiple boogeymen at 100 yards and then some. I hope to never have to use them for such.

If I want to knock the eyelid off'n a woodchuck at 300 yards, or drop a whitetail at 450 yards, I have proven tools for those jobs, too.

Had a Bushmaster CMP for years, sold it. It also worked well and was very accurate. Spent more time in one week fussing with and pampering that AR, than I have on both Minis combined, in the past five years. Which is probably why I still have them?

:)

Redneck with a 40
August 1, 2009, 10:49 PM
I bought a mini-14 earlier this week, got it sighted in today, did a 2.5" group at 100 yards, I'm happy.:) Its a neat gun, fun to shoot. Two or 2.5 inches at a 100 yards is what I has hoping for and it delivered.:)

fatelk
August 1, 2009, 11:25 PM
+1 1858

Some of you all really hate the mini, don't you? It almost feels to me that, by extension, you seem to loathe anyone who happens to like their Mini-14, and dare stick up for them.

Now, I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but it's almost how you are coming across.

Apparantly I lucked out and got a good one, that for almost 20 years has been consistent with descent accuracy and total reliability, and it's one of the early ones! I don't shoot it much anymore, but it has proven itself.

Not everyone wants an uber-tactical-decked-out-cool-looking gun. I'm not a soldier and I don't fantasize about being one. Personally I have absolutely no interest in owning a decked out AR with all the bells and whistles, and I really only need two magazines. I'll defend your right to own those kinds of guns, and I have nothing against them, they just don't do anything for me.

Art Eatman
August 1, 2009, 11:53 PM
If you're a hunter, the Mini is great. If you're a bench rester or target shooter, they're not. So what's the problem?

NC-Mike
August 2, 2009, 01:15 AM
If you're a hunter, the Mini is great. If you're a bench rester or target shooter, they're not. So what's the problem?

The claims of 1 MOA mini's and how great a self-defense weapon they make can be very annoying. :)

But you know what? Even Ruger agreed the mini needed to look more like an AR...

Look at what they did to it! :eek:

"Ruger Tactical"
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/446L.jpg

To tell you the truth, I kind of like that one. That's about what I did to mine just before I sold it a few years ago. Cut down 16" barrel and pistol grip stock. All I was missing was an adjustable stock and some rails. :(

But the best thing my mini ever did was turn into my first EBR. :)

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/Mike____Smith/Collection/Mini-14002.jpg

Hammerhead6814
August 2, 2009, 01:23 AM
Hammerhead I had a look at the dpms sportical. That one don't do it for me. No carry handle, no bayonet lug and no foward assist. I don't like the flattops.

I do like the lightweight 20. The only thing I would change on it was to add a chrome lined barrel. And naturally its out of stock. The 7.5 lbs weight is in the correct range. It was $725 or $757 with the chome barrel. Thats a fair price for me.

I read all the threads here about ARs. Particularly the one about whats the best AR to get. I thought DPMS was rated about second from the bottom over Olympic Arms. Every rifle that is recommended starts at a thousand bucks and goes up from there.

I still see minis around here for $625 to $700. My local GS has the blued, plastic stock with a flash hider on it for $679 + tax and he is normally a little high. The Academy finally got a blued/wood in but I didn't look at the price. Wasn't any point. I have mine and don't plan on buying another. I am always on the hunt for something new though.

There is a gunshow next weekend in dallas. I will be there with a pocket full of cash.

There is a forward assist version of the Sportical. It was on sale last weekend at the MVACA gun show for $725 dollars (same dealer had the basic Sportical for just $700, same as Show Me Shooters in Claycomo). And DPMS is a low-rated AR manufacturer? They've been winning awards from the NRA for years! Not the sportical mind you, but they do put out quality AR's :) .

I can't find a NEW Mini-14 for under $800 in Kansas City yet :( . There are a lot of used ones around for $600 dollars, but from what I've seen, a 20 year old Mini doesn't have a lot of life left in it (barrel wise) :( .

riflenut
August 2, 2009, 02:17 AM
hey i own 2 so called bad rifles , according to alot of posts on here!!Ive been a member on this board since 2006, I have read so many negitive post on both rifles I OWN and wouldnt sell either one , there are keepers in my gun safe. I own a MINI 30 made in 1995. and a OLYMPIC ARMS PLINKER 556. AR -15. puchased it in 2006. both are very fun to shoot and have had no jam ups or any other problems with either rifle!! when i started looking to purchase the AR , PRICES were 900 on up i couldnt afford this for one rifle, so i ran in to this OLYMPIC brand new in 06 for 660 dollars at a local gun shop. and i bought my mini 30 used for 450 at the same time and put it on 90 day lay away. I enjoy target shooting with both at 30, 50, and 70 yards.

Bishop.357
August 2, 2009, 08:47 AM
My wife bought a newer Mini-14 for the simple fact that she is rather small,(5'2" and 105lbs) and she wanted a semi-auto that fit her better. We got it for a steal,well below market price and got a few HC mags thrown in with the deal. I'll admit,the new Minis' are more accurate then the older 90s' models,but I still think the only thing they'er good for is layin' down suppression fire while under attack from superior numbers. Oh yeah, .223/5.56nato is a crapy caliber.

benEzra
August 2, 2009, 12:22 PM
.223 is a bit loud for Home Defense. I would consider it "Home Deafness" as I would not hear anything again after firing one inside my house. A couple of .45 ACP I have handy will suffice to discourage the intruder(s). My 2 small dogs take off when I pull it out for shooting. They don't like the noise either, and THEY'RE INSIDE!....LOL.. btw, it's not a Mini. AK make great home defense rifles as well, but as mentioned, would not be the first pick to shoot inside a closed in space.
A .223 carbine is considerably louder than a .45 ACP carbine, but (surprisingly) is about the same peak loudness as a .45 ACP pistol. The frequency spectrum may be a little different, and the duration of the pressure pulse is probably longer, but the peak loudness is comparable. A 14.5" or 10.5" .223 would be an entirely different story, though.

http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

Not sure if these figures are straight dB or dBA.

Table 2. CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 _" barrel.....155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel...........................155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel.........................156.0dB
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel.....................157.5dB
.308 in 24" barrel...........................156.2dB
.30-06 in 24" barrel.........................158.5dB
.30-06 in 18 _" barrel.......................163.2dB
.375 — 18" barrel with muzzle brake...........170 dB

Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA
.25 ACP...........155.0 dB
.32 LONG..........152.4 dB
.32 ACP...........153.5 dB
.380..............157.7 dB
9mm...............159.8 dB
.38 S&W...........153.5 dB
.38 Spl...........156.3 dB
.357 Magnum.......164.3 dB
.41 Magnum........163.2 dB
.44 Spl...........155.9 dB
.45 ACP...........157.0 dB
.45 COLT..........154.7 dB

Barrel length makes a huge difference.

That's right, there aren't any parts available for the Mini-14 .... ... not to mention the fact that I haven't had to change/replace a single part on two of mine despite thousands of rounds sent downrange.

Midway
Brownell's
Accuracy Systems
If you look closely, I don't think those are Ruger factory parts. Unless they've changed their policy, Ruger won't sell you a spare bolt, firing pin, etc. since they require the fitting to be done themselves; to get a spare bolt, you'd have to remove the bolt from your rifle and ship the rifle to them to install another, AFAIK.

It's good that the aftermarket has stepped up to the plate, though, but I still didn't see any spare bolts in there, whereas a spare bolt assembly for an AK or an AR are readily available.

NC-Mike
August 2, 2009, 12:26 PM
I had a Olympic Plinker and it was one of the early cast models!

That thing ran like a top but the cast receivers spooked me so I sold it. It was a good little plinker. Very accurate and very reliable.

There are some good cheap guns out there. Hi-Point 995 carbine probably tops that list.

Ratshooter
August 2, 2009, 01:50 PM
Hammerhead if the sportical had the foward assist I didn't catch it in the photo. But just the fact that it was a flat top killed it for me. As for saying the DPMS is not as good as other ARs I was basing that one what other posters here have said about it. I won't comment because I have zero experience with any ARs.

It seems every one has a comment on the mini whether they have shot only an older gun or haven't shot one at all. Like the poster that said you can't judge ranges because of the tapered front sight. That comment invalidated his opinion for me because he has only shot the olded versions and none of the new ones. Its old, out of date experience and doesn't apply to the new guns.

NC-Mike
August 2, 2009, 02:00 PM
Its old, out of date experience and doesn't apply to the new guns.

You mean the mini-14 has a new front site?


Oh, OK...

black_powder_Rob
August 2, 2009, 03:07 PM
Yep NC-Mike and a heavier barrel too, and guess what mine doubles as a hunting gun and a "home defense carbine" :neener:

and I am not the only one i bet that this applies to. oh well guess you will just have to let it be.:D:neener::D

Ratshooter
August 2, 2009, 03:43 PM
Yes NC-Mike it has a new front sight. And a new rear sight. And and recoil buffer. And tighter fitting parts. And a barrel that is .620 at its smallest diameter instead of .520 at its thickest after the chamber area.

Its a different gun compared to the old gun.

NC-Mike
August 2, 2009, 04:09 PM
So you're saying this rifle that was designed in 1967 has finally been fixed?

:uhoh:








Now if you could only buy good mags for 12.00 a pop, you just might have something.

NC-Mike
August 2, 2009, 04:10 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=465059

:D:D:D

black_powder_Rob
August 2, 2009, 04:25 PM
"Now if you could only buy good mags for 12.00 a pop, you just might have something."

well it would be nice, but the few factory mags i have work well and i am trying out the pro mags, not 12 but still cheaper than the factory mags.

also i don't need 15 mags for one gun. as mentioned it is for hunting and if need be HD and for most situations that are likely to happen I think 2 20's and 1 30's and 1 5 rounder will be just fine. oh and i was lucky enough to get one of the 20's free and the other one at 29.99, so it is close to being 12 per a mag when i got them.

Does it really irk you that i like my mini that much?

P.S. i know you are just joshing

jimmyraythomason
August 2, 2009, 04:42 PM
I bought some USA 20 and 30 round mags for both my Mini-14 and Mini-30. The 20s worked great out of the package but the follower on the 30s didn't seem to lift upward at the front. A simple adjustment of the tang at the rear of the follower cured the problem. I don't recall what I paid for them but it wasn't $12.00. My daughter still uses the mags for the Mini-30(they are over 15 years old).

1858
August 2, 2009, 04:47 PM
Not sure if these figures are straight dB or dBA.

IIRC, the dB scale is not linear but logarithmic so a difference of 3dB amounts to about twice the volume. Just throwing it out there for your consideration.

Added in edit: Deleted information from Accuracy Systems. I realized what they meant about the Mini being an "open bolt" design compared to the ARs "closed bolt" design. The AR bolt sits inside the bolt carrier whereas the Mini's bolt is open in the sense that it's not enclosed by a carrier. Not to be confused with a rifle that fires from the open bolt position. :o

:)

Ratshooter
August 2, 2009, 05:17 PM
So you're saying this rifle that was designed in 1967 has finally been fixed?

IIRC the AR basic design came out around 1957. Its still being tweaked also. You know, M-4 feedramps and a new gas system. All changes for the good Nearly all designes get a going over from time to time. Even the 1911 and the 98 Mauser. They are still the same basic gun with improvements to keep up with technology.

I have 9 Pro-Mag 20 rounders, a 20 factory mag and 3 five round factory mags. I use the promags most of the time. They work perfectly and have never malfunctioned. They look as well made as the factory mag and they were $20 at Academy Sports. Nope not a $12 mag but I have reached that high point in life where I can afford an extra 8 bucks. :neener:::neener:

umc180gr
August 2, 2009, 05:30 PM
The A-Team likes minis

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u5/kshuntercb/A-TEAM-2.jpg

NC-Mike
August 2, 2009, 05:33 PM
IIRC the AR basic design came out around 1957.

And it worked.

Same with 1911.


So if the mini has finally been fixed after 42 years of design work, it may take a few generations for it to be as widely accepted and loved as those two venerable firearms. :)

NC-Mike
August 2, 2009, 05:34 PM
The A-Team likes minis

That is a plus! :D









one of the few...

Ratshooter
August 2, 2009, 05:58 PM
Hello NC-Mike. You made very good points. The 1911 and AR benefited from being accepted by the military and were fast tracked for improvements. The 1905 that led to the 1911 needed the upgrades. So did the first armalite rifles.

I have read that when John Browning sold his designs to winchester that winchester had to refine each one before production. Yes the mini needed the upgrades. But for a lot of people the original gun was suitible. If not for the internet and people sharing info I suspect the improvements my have never been made.

I forgot to add that anyone that uses the goofy A-Team show as a basis for an argument either for or against the mini is on pretty shakey ground. I can proudly say that I only wasted one hour of my life watching that show. And I really did like George Peppard. :D:D:D

NC-Mike
August 2, 2009, 06:31 PM
I forgot to add that anyone that uses the goofy A-Team show as a basis for an argugent either for against the mini is on pretty shakey ground.

I pity the fool who messes with the A-Team!

http://dailygab.com/files/2009/05/mrt.jpg




And not for nothing but the AR and the 1911 were selected for military service on the merits of their respective designs.

The AC556 never really caught on. It didn't hold up under heavy use and had a tendency for its trigger group to fall out of the rifle. :eek:

Ratshooter
August 2, 2009, 08:26 PM
I can't comment on the trigger guard falling out since I have never seen it happen. Mine locks in pretty well. Sounds more like somebody not giving it a good bang to make sure it seated all the way. Who knows.

I have heard of the trigger guard being bent because someone forced it open not knowing the gun needs to be cocked and the saftey on before snapping the TG out of its lock. Way too many people never read owners manuals before shooting or working on a gun. Thats a shame since they are free for the asking.

I hope Mr.T stays away from water. If he falls in he is going straight to bottom head first because of all the bling around his neck. A good place for him. He looks like he would get along just fine with catfish. :neener:

NC-Mike
August 2, 2009, 10:17 PM
Trigger groups tended to fall out of the AC556 model while under fire...

And Mr T would be just fine if he fell in the water, the water would be so scared, it would jump out. :p


And Really! How dare you insinuate Mr T looks lke a catfish!

I pity the fool who thinks he's better looking than Mr T!

http://www.mightyhealthynyc.com/images/events/chi/mrt.jpg





You know, I once heard Mr T being interviewed by Howard Stern and I'm pretty sure Mr T is genuinely unbalanced. Stern asked him some personal questions and Mr T came close to losing it completely. Very entertaining. :)

Ratshooter
August 2, 2009, 11:24 PM
Oh good lord. If you keep going from Mr.t to Howard Stern your going to get this thread locked. And I'm having fun.

I didn't say he looked like a catfish. Catfish are much better looking. And the last catfish I caught was armed with an AR-15 that was jammed with mud and wouldn't fire. If he would have been armed with a Mini-14 he could have shot the fish line in two.

You know, I once heard Mr T being interviewed by Howard Stern and I'm pretty sure Mr T is genuinely unbalanced.

I have heard the same thing. Its like going on Jerry Springer because your wife has something she wants to tell you. You just KNOW that odds are it ain't gonna' be good.

NC-Mike
August 3, 2009, 01:39 AM
Oh good lord. If you keep going from Mr.t to Howard Stern your going to get this thread locked.

I hate when that happens. :(

I know why they do it and even though sometimes I think the mods are a little quick to shut down threads, there is good reason for what they do.

The thought this thread would be closed crossed my mind already. :scrutiny: I was all-ready for the "Recess is over kids" and a big blue lock slammed on the thread. :p

Well good luck with your mini. If truth be told, I once sounded a lot like you when I first got my mini. Then I started shooting it and soon realized what all the controversy was about... :uhoh:




PS: Don't tell anyone but I can perhaps see a Tactical Mini in my future. As long as Ruger starts selling those 20-round mags at 12 each. :)

1858
August 3, 2009, 02:05 AM
All this Mini talk got me interested enough to take the Mini out to the range today along with one of my ARs. I posted a couple of groups shot at 100 yards with the AR in a post HERE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5803828&postcount=73). I've never shot the Mini with iron sights but since I don't have a scope for it currently, I figured I'd zero the sights for 50 yards with some XM193 55gr ammo that I bought recently.

After getting the sights close with 10 shots, here's the first group shot at 50 yards. Target is shown upside down ... I started to write on it before I realized my mistake.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/mini14/mini14_xm193_50y.jpg

My Mini has an adjustable gas block from Accuracy Systems which I believe helps with consistency and accuracy. I turned the screw in another half a turn between the target above and the one below and the group shrank a little. The ejected cases are falling about three feet from my shooting position. With the factory gas block, the cases land about 30 feet from my shooting position!! After the first shot (near the red dot) I decided to zero about three inches high at 50 yards so that the POI will be closer to the POA at 100 yards. These ten shots were all made inside of 5 minutes so the barrel was plenty warm. The longest delay was between the first and second shots of the second group. It took me about a minute to move the rear sight all the way up to its highest position. The sights should be close enough for 100 yards now but I'd need to file the front sight down if I wanted to zero at 150 or 200 yards.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/mini14/mini14_xm193_50y(2).jpg

The Mini isn't a tack driver, but it's very light, short, reliable and accurate enough for what I use it for. In fact, it'd make an excellent hiking/backpacking/woods rifle.

:)

jd46561
August 3, 2009, 12:09 PM
Considering most animals/humans are bigger than a paper plate, looks like their dead.:D I'm looking to get an older mini 14 in a trade deal soon. Looks brand new , ss ranch. Hope it shoots that good.

Art Eatman
August 3, 2009, 12:11 PM
Leave the Mr. T silliness out, okay?

Ratshooter
August 3, 2009, 12:28 PM
No problem with no more Mr.T.

!858 if you are 3" high at 50 yards I bet your ever higher at 100. You need to shoot at 100 and adjust your sights. Even my 22 mag will be close to zero at a 100 with a 1" high at 50. Your 223 will shoot much flatter.

NC-Mike
August 3, 2009, 12:53 PM
No problem with no more Mr.T


Awww...
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/Mike____Smith/Miscellaneous/sadmonkey.jpg


+1 on the zeroing. The 223 shoots pretty flat but I've always heard the mini likes XM193 ammo.

They also had different barrel twists. 1 in 7, 1 in 9 and 1 in 10, depending on when they were made.

jimmyraythomason
August 3, 2009, 12:57 PM
My Mini was partial to Winchester USA 55gr.fmj (Q3131). Still have several hundred rounds for my Bushy.

DammitBoy
August 3, 2009, 01:32 PM
They also had different barrel twists. 1 in 7, 1 in 9 and 1 in 10, depending on when they were made.

This is the whole reason for some mini's shooting well and others shooting badly. People using the wrong bullet for their weapon.

You need the correct bullet for the right twist. Trying to shoot 50 grain bullets in all those twists doesn't work out to well.

NC-Mike
August 3, 2009, 01:39 PM
50 grain bullets should work just fine in all but 1 in 7.

DammitBoy
August 3, 2009, 01:40 PM
1 in 7 was the original twist and where the idea came from that mini's were inacurate.

NC-Mike
August 3, 2009, 01:49 PM
1 in 7 was the original twist and where the idea came from that mini's were inacurate.

Wishful thinking...

The Mini's large-mass-action is inherently tilted towards inaccuracy and the thin barrel is the reason they tend to string shots with a hot barrel.

It doesn't matter what you're shooting, it is what it is.

1858
August 3, 2009, 02:48 PM
!858 if you are 3" high at 50 yards I bet your ever higher at 100. You need to shoot at 100 and adjust your sights. Even my 22 mag will be close to zero at a 100 with a 1" high at 50. Your 223 will shoot much flatter.

Thanks for the correction and you're absolutely right!! That was dumb of me. :o I ran the Federal XM193 load through ExBal and came up with the following ... ooops!!

50 yards > +3.0"
100 yards > + 6.5"
200 yards > + 10.3"
300 yards > + 8.7"
400 yards > 0.0"

So I'm zeroed at 400 yards ... at least I know how far out the iron sights will go for a zero. I'll correct the sights on my next trip to the range. According to ExBal, a 50 yard zero would put me +0.6" at 100 yards :cuss: . Well, I usually learn more when I screw up rather than get it right.

jd46561, my Mini's serial number is 195-010XX and I bought it new about 12 years ago. As I mentioned, I'm using a Hogue Overmolded stock which I like a lot, and an Accuracy Systems adjustable gas block. If the action is throwing cases 30ft away, that unnecessary recoil can/will affect accuracy. Many M1/M1A shooters tinker with the gas block to improve accuracy and get rewarded for their efforts. Also, the targets above were shot with factory XM193 ammunition ... reloads could help shrink the groups even more. The trigger on my Mini is average at best and it could really do with an upgrade or some work. That'll probably be the final tweak along with a 1-4x scope at some point.

:)

NC-Mike
August 3, 2009, 02:53 PM
That quote should be attributed to Ratshooter.



TY

armslist
August 3, 2009, 02:57 PM
Mine eats all kinds of ammo, factory or reloaded and never gives so much as a hiccup. I think that's the biggest plus I've seen.

It's kind of like a looser fitting GI model 1911 vs. the tight tolerance match guns that are more finicky about type of ammo.

benEzra
August 3, 2009, 03:11 PM
IIRC, the dB scale is not linear but logarithmic so a difference of 3dB amounts to about twice the volume. Just throwing it out there for your consideration.
Twice the sound pressure (in watts per square meter), yes; twice the volume, no. Volume is not linear, either, since our ears also respond logarithmically to sound. We perceive roughly a 10 dB increase as a doubling in volume, and a 1 dB increase is barely detectable to human ears.

1858
August 3, 2009, 03:18 PM
That quote should be attributed to Ratshooter.

Corrected ... and apologies to you both.

Thanks.
:)

David E
August 3, 2009, 03:30 PM
(5) low coolness factor (doesn't look like a 'machine gun').

This was listed as a "con," but in reality, it's a very big advantage that is often overlooked.

NC-Mike
August 3, 2009, 03:46 PM
Quote:
(5) low coolness factor (doesn't look like a 'machine gun').



This was listed as a "con," but in reality, it's a very big advantage that is often overlooked.


Ruger fixed that.

Factory Tactical Mini-14

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/446L.jpg


If you ask me, it's a big improvement. 16 inch barrel, a couple of 20 round mags and rails! Who woulda thunk it! :p

jimmyraythomason
August 3, 2009, 03:47 PM
I prefer the original configuration.

Leanwolf
August 3, 2009, 04:03 PM
For many years I've had a Mini-14 182 series GB. It works perfectly for me with three different types ammo. PMC, WW FMJ and Win. PSP. Shoots 1 1/2" @ 100 yards with iron sights.

Can't complain about that.

Of course, I haven't used it to rapid fire 400 rounds to hold off a platoon of attacking Spetznaz. Perhaps in that scenario, it'd fail. Sure hope I don't have to fight a platoon of Spetznaz anytime soon. :)

L.W.

NC-Mike
August 3, 2009, 04:07 PM
I prefer the original configuration.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n4/RobertOak/monkey_shocked2.jpg

Ratshooter
August 3, 2009, 05:08 PM
NC-Mike I have a new desktop picture. LOL, thats funny.

1858 no apologies needed. I'm just happy someone listened to what I said. It doesn't happen at the house very often.

You can most likely close your adjustable gas block down a little more. My new gun throws brass 8-10 feet and is still reliable. I measured the hole in the barrel and it was a very small .050. Thats much smaller than the earlier 580 that I bought first. I didn't measure the bleed hole on that one but I did install a .045 ASI bushing that kept the brass about 12ft away.

Reid73
August 5, 2009, 05:50 PM
This was listed as a "con" No it wasn't. (5) and (6) were listed as neutral factors.

As far as I'm concerned, the lack of 'machine gun' styling is a plus. Teenagers likely disagree, though.

jd46561
August 5, 2009, 06:15 PM
I prefer the wood stock over plastic. Here is the one im getting.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/SSMini14.jpg

NC-Mike
August 6, 2009, 12:30 AM
No it wasn't. (5) and (6) were listed as neutral factors.

As far as I'm concerned, the lack of 'machine gun' styling is a plus. Teenagers likely disagree, though.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_e92n-YZL3Vs/SKA035AQFII/AAAAAAAAAH8/_De2FcLuVuI/s320/oh-snap.jpg

tju1973
August 6, 2009, 12:32 AM
I prefer the wood stock over plastic. Here is the one im getting.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/SSMini14.jpg
agreed-- a SS with wood looks almost...perfect....

frankiestoys
August 17, 2009, 03:36 PM
My mini 14

Nicky Santoro
August 17, 2009, 04:12 PM
What I didn't see mentioned is the fact that the appearance of the Mini doesn't scare the sheeple like the appearance of the AR does. I've had one or two up at the cabin ask if the AR was a machine gun. I responded that it was an AR and not a machine gun. One even gave the eye roll and said it looked like an UZI to her. When the same types see the Mini and ask what it is I tell them it's a .22 and they stop annoying me.

Reid73
August 17, 2009, 05:01 PM
What I didn't see mentioned is the fact that the appearance of the Mini doesn't scare the sheeple like the appearance of the AR does.

See posts 22 and 152.

Sheepdog1968
August 17, 2009, 09:23 PM
It's one of the few semi auto rifles you can get in CA that is a legitimate self defense weapon. Any of the newer off list lowers people use to build an AR end up requiring a bullet button release which makes them an impractical self-defense weapon. I also happen to like the look and feel of an M1A and M1 Garands. The mini 14 has that same look. Toss in the factor that it doesn't look like an assualt weapon is another added bonus.

husker
August 17, 2009, 09:33 PM
i bought mine for 1 reason. A. bi pod & a staple=zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzip
next mag please.

Rshooter
August 17, 2009, 10:27 PM
I own several match grade weapons, my mini is for fun. I would like to get one of the newer ones too. Know it's limitations and use it correctly, you do not hammer with a screwdriver and then complain it is junk do you?

dom1104
August 17, 2009, 11:58 PM
do not hammer with a ... what?


a rifle is supposed to be accurate. Thats why its a rifle. A rifle that doesnt shoot where you aim it is like a car that that only goes 35 mph.

Its useless compared to your other options.

BruceB
August 18, 2009, 01:16 AM
A few weeks back, I bought a new Mini-14 "Deluxe", one of a special run for Davidson's. It has a Circassian walnut stock and is about the nicest Mini I've ever seen.

With a Leupold 3-9x Ultralight and shooting only my handloads, it's delivering sub-two-inch groups for TEN rounds at 100 yards in the early stages of load development. I expect the accuracy to improve with further research. Functioning to date has been 100% (about 300 rounds).

I disliked the M-16-style "birdcage" flash hider on the 16" barrel. It just happens to have a 9/16x24 right-hand thread....the SAME as the inch-pattern FAL rifles. I removed the "issue" flash hider. Cutting about 1/2" off the back end of an L1A1 flash hider allows it to engage the barrel threads, and it then butts neatly up against the front-sight base. With some fitting to orient the bayonet lug at 6 o'clock, you can then mount an L1A2- or L1A3-pattern bayonet on your Mini. (Do a google search: "L1A2 bayonet" to see what the 8" blade looks like.) Yes, the flash hider has an integral bayonet lug! The flash hider can be had from Numrich for less than ten bucks, and it looks a whole lot better than the birdcage type that comes from Ruger...at least to my jaundiced ol' eyeballs..

Being the advanced age of 66, I almost hate to admit that I actually BOUGHT such a bayonet this past weekend at the Big Reno Show. Why??? I can only put it down to advanced senility....or maybe retarded boyhood. Anyway, it looks right at home on that seamlessly-installed flash hider. Great for fending-off the crazed herds of ground squirrels after the mag runs dry, I suppose....

As for the title of this thread, I have a LOT of love for the Mini-14, and this is the latest of three or four that I've owned.

BHP FAN
August 18, 2009, 03:27 AM
Mine is so old it has the WOODEN hand guard.No complaints.Second time I've owned this gun.Not this model...this gun.

OrangePwrx9
August 18, 2009, 02:48 PM
The only regret of my 20+ year ownership of Minis is that I sold the Mini-30 about 10 years ago. It was reliable, delivered fair accuracy, I liked it and got a heckuva deal on it when I bought it new; but I just didn't have a good use for it at the time. Too bad. It was made for times like these.

Like others have said, Minis are what they are....and they are fun and reliable.

NC-Mike
August 18, 2009, 03:07 PM
One great thing about the mini that wasn't mentioned is the built in alibi for poor shooting and abysmal grouping!

Hey, its a dang mini, what do you expect! :neener:

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/09_20_07_Shadow_Ops_target.jpg

DammitBoy
August 18, 2009, 04:53 PM
Mine is so old it has the WOODEN hand guard.No complaints.Second time I've owned this gun.Not this model...this gun.


Oh ****, I'm so jealous! I had one like that and sold it like a fish-eyed fool.

I haven't ever seen one since and I'd love to have it again.

Art Eatman
August 18, 2009, 06:24 PM
Again, the Mini delivers the first shot to the same place, today, as it did last week or last month or last year. Not everybody needs a whole bunch of shots to kill a coyote. :D

MISFIRE
August 18, 2009, 11:21 PM
Mini 14 580 series rifles and later are fine and shoot very well, I sold mine and I'm sorry. I would buy another but the prices are out of sight, I wouldn't buy a 180 series Mini but look at the prices, used guns are going for more than they sold for new, and 580 series are scarce as hens teeth.
Bill

NC-Mike
August 18, 2009, 11:56 PM
Again, the Mini delivers the first shot to the same place, today, as it did last week or last month or last year. Not everybody needs a whole bunch of shots to kill a coyote.

But what if you miss the first shot? :what:


Seriously, that tactical mini is talkin to me... I almost wish I didn't sell my PMI and Ruger hi-cap mags. :p

Redneck with a 40
August 19, 2009, 09:48 PM
NC-Mike, my 580 series will put 10 shots in a group that's half the size of the one you posted. Most of my 5 shot groups are under 2.5" at 100 yards. My dad's 180 series, which we shot last weekend, could only muster 4.5" as the best group. They've improved quite a bit. Like I said before, I didn't go looking for a mini with match grade accuracy in mind, I just wanted a fun, reliable, .223 semi-auto that would be cyote accurate at 200 yards, mine is.

NC-Mike
August 20, 2009, 09:00 PM
I just wanted a fun, reliable, .223 semi-auto that would be cyote accurate at 200 yards

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/Mike____Smith/Collection/M4AR-1-1.jpg

Redneck with a 40
August 20, 2009, 10:12 PM
NC-Mike, that rifle is probably $1500+, my mini was $750. I don't want to spend that kind of money, plus I don't like the AR's period, they don't do anything for me. I could care less if they can shoot a 1/4" group.

I've got my match accurate rifle, a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308. It will do 1/2" groups all day long with my handload's. Plus, beyond 200 yards, the .308 destroy's the .223, both in energy and long range ballistics.:neener:

Tacbandit
August 20, 2009, 10:13 PM
Quote:
"Well, after all the A-team used them..."


Yeh.......and nobody ever died....LOL:)

dougiefreshhh
August 20, 2009, 11:17 PM
To me, the AR and Mini overlap in some areas, but not all.

Its like stock car vs a F1 car. Both do a lot of the same things, but you can't put one down because it stinks in one area over the other. For example, you cant have a passion for 1" groupings at 200yrds and say the mini stinks.
Just as you cant say you love cleaning your guns with pond scum, and say the AR-15 sucks.

There are some things one rifle is going to do better over the other.

I love the how you can customize the snot out of an AR. Target, sprayer, different cals...you name it, you can make it work, and work well with an AR-15.

The mini does most things well, but its history, and "old style", etc.... make it an easy target for criticism.

I love my mini (560 series) as I found it to be OVERALL: 1.) easy to shoot, 2.) is not finicky about what I feed it, 3.) easy to clean, 4) "low profile" appearance,5) good general purpose weapon.6.) you can buy one without having to decide on 50 different options...but it does not perform well in all areas, and neither does the AR-15.

That's my $0.02...not that it's worth a lot.

Art Eatman
August 20, 2009, 11:26 PM
"But what if you miss the first shot?"

I gave that up for Lent about sixty years ago, and never got it back.

Nematocyst
August 20, 2009, 11:32 PM
that rifle is probably $1500+As I'm learning, not if you build it yourself.

I don't like the AR's period, they don't do anything for me.That's what I said one week ago.

Shooting one changed all that. (See sig line.)

fatelk
August 21, 2009, 01:46 AM
Mike, I understand that you like AR's and can't understand how anyone could possibly prefer the more traditional look. Either that or you just like stirring it up just for kicks.:D

I have shot AR's, from shorty, collapsible stock models to accurized heavy barrel target models. They're fine, if that's what you like. Personally they just don't do anything for me, either. I'm totally with you on our right to own them, but no amount of arguing will change my mind when it comes to aesthetics.

Nematocyst
August 21, 2009, 02:23 AM
I agree with you mostly on aesthetics.

When I want aesthetics, I'll take my Marlin lever or a SuperRedhawk.

What attracts me to AR's is their pure functionality - and much more - the fact that a bunch parts from a bunch of different manufacturers can fit together to spec to build a single rifle called an AR.

One doesn't have to buy a rifle as is from (choose one or more) Smith Wesson, RRA, Stag, DPMS and others, but can buy parts from each to make your own.

Now that's an interesting concept. Try that with Smith and Ruger, or Kahr and Colt.

Justin
August 21, 2009, 03:09 AM
I have no love for the Mini-14 simply because it doesn't do what I need a rifle to do. Whether for 3Gun, High Power, or as a defensive carbine, the AR platform can be adopted to fit, and with solid reliability and repeatable accuracy.

Is there a price difference? Yes. But you get what you pay for.

That said, if the Mini does what you need it to do, then by all means, get one, shoot it and be happy.

NC-Mike
August 21, 2009, 09:37 PM
NC-Mike, that rifle is probably $1500+, my mini was $750.


Nah, "The Baby" was only 990.00 NIB. Bushmaster 14.5"

Its such a nice, sweet, compact little package. A very fast-handling carbine. Feels pretty much like an extension of yourself.

I need to sell a couple rifles soon. That one isn't one of them.

Redneck with a 40
August 22, 2009, 12:27 AM
Ok, well the $250 savings with the Mini allows you to buy 500 rounds of .223 to go along with it.:neener:

NC-Mike
August 22, 2009, 12:44 AM
Ok, well the $250 savings with the Mini allows you to buy 500 rounds of .223 to go along with it.

The mini does need lots of ammo to hit something... :)

Burk1951
August 22, 2009, 04:11 AM
I agree with Dougiefreshhh: "I love my mini (560 series) as I found it to be OVERALL: 1.) easy to shoot, 2.) is not finicky about what I feed it, 3.) easy to clean, 4) "low profile" appearance,5) good general purpose weapon.6.) you can buy one without having to decide on 50 different options...but it does not perform well in all areas, and neither does the AR-15."

I have one of the newer 580 series and its great. If you're totally into the AR style, the Mini 14 is not the thing to buy. I think I got a good deal on the mini and would never try to make it look AR. The KR model is a great looking weapon, and needs very little added to it. I've put a couple of tac stocks in the "shopping cart", but looked at the mini again and decided that it looked better as it was. That doesn't mean that I dislike the AR style. I recently bought a M&P15-22 when I could have got a reliable 10/22 for much, much less. Or a butt ugly tac 10/22 for half the price. Sometimes, you're just lucky enough to get what YOU really want, and not what the "experts" tell you to buy.

jaholder1971
August 22, 2009, 10:43 AM
that rifle is probably $1500+, my mini was $750.

You got screwed. AR prices on fullsized 20" A2 model were back down around $785 last gun show I went to and I built my 1X7 twist M4gery for less than that.

I'll still put any OOB AR from any maker up against Ruger's best Mini 14 at 200 yards using Federal GM match ammo any day of the week.

Redneck with a 40
August 22, 2009, 11:33 AM
jaholder, you won't find those prices out here in Colorado. My local dealer only had 3 mini's on the shelf, 2 of which were the hi-cap models, that came with the 20 round magazine. He didn't know when he would get more, so I bought it on the spot. Like I said, 2.5" accuracy at 100 yards is satisfactory for me, I didn't go into it looking for match grade accuracy.

I'll put my Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308 up against you're AR at 200 yards, with federal GMM ammo, any day of the week!:neener::D

Redneck with a 40
August 22, 2009, 11:40 AM
I like my mini.:D

BushyGuy
August 22, 2009, 11:40 AM
i had a 580 series Ruger Ranch Rifle, was a piece of crap - after 10 rounds the spaghetti thin barrel heated up so fast the bullets started to spread like 8 or 9 inch groups at 50 yards, i sold it and bought my Bushmaster now i have some satisfaction. also the magazine was so loose on the mini . i bough that mini at wally world for 620.00. i had a 9x40 scope on it .

BushyGuy
August 22, 2009, 11:43 AM
hey redneck u think you can beat my Bushmaster i use iron sights and get Sub MOA at 100 yards i dont think your .308 can beat that maybe a 22-250 yeah. i got a 11.5" HBAR on my bushy

Redneck with a 40
August 22, 2009, 11:57 AM
Bushguy, with my 3-9x40 scope, I can get sub-moa at 200 yards, 1.5" 5 shot groups.:D I'd have to spend money to mount iron sights on my remmy, why would I do that, when I can scope it? So yeah, bring it!:neener:

1858
August 22, 2009, 04:45 PM
i use iron sights and get Sub MOA at 100 yards ... i got a 11.5" HBAR on my bushy

I look forward to seeing some of your targets when you enter this match ...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=466672

The best krochus could do was 1.4" with a considerably longer barrel (sight radius). You still have three weeks.

:)

R.W.Dale
August 22, 2009, 05:19 PM
I look forward to seeing some of your targets when you enter this match ...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=466672

The best krochus could do was 1.4" with a considerably longer barrel (sight radius). You still have three weeks.

:)

the best I've done so far, I've only sat down to try to make a submission ONCE.

But my uper has several strikes against in in the accuracy dpt being a genuine surplus upper with a chrome bore, a1 sights and a pencil thin barrel. In other words as close to a MINI as an ar15 upper can get


BTW. the mini qualifies for my match

1858
August 22, 2009, 05:23 PM
krochus, for the record, my post was in no way intended to belittle your efforts. I'm well aware of your shooting prowess with a number of different rifles. I'm fairly sure you can read between the lines and understand what I'm getting at with my previous post.

I'm looking forward to entering your match once I complete three rifle projects.

1. Fit new CDI bottom metal to B&C stock for my Remington 700 in .300 WSM
2. Intall new recoil pad on AccuStock and lap Talley rings on 7mm-08 Savage
3. Work up load for .308 just back from gun smith with new match chamber, larger recoil lug and new bolt (I need this rifle for a 2-day class in October)

:)

husker
August 22, 2009, 05:40 PM
Good old. AR VS MINI pissing match. Its like putting RAY BOOM BOOM Mansenie in the ring against GORGE FOREMAN. Its just not a fair fight. IMO. They both shoot 8 once boxing gloves but thats the only thing they have in common .=5.56

1858
August 22, 2009, 05:52 PM
Good old. AR VS MINI pissing match. Its like putting RAY BOOM BOOM Mansenie in the ring against GORGE FOREMAN. Its just not a fair fight. IMO. They both shoot 8 once boxing gloves but thats the only thing they have in common .=5.56

But we don't have to make a choice between one or the other ... we can have BOTH. So why do these threads degrade into "one is better than the other". ARs and Mini-14s have their strengths and their weaknesses but I like 'em both .... DONE!!

:)

R.W.Dale
August 22, 2009, 05:53 PM
krochus, for the record, my post was in no way intended to belittle your efforts. I'm well aware of your shooting prowess with a number of different rifles. I'm fairly sure you can read between the lines and understand what I'm getting at with my previous post.


:)

I understand I just wanted to let the borders of the playing field be known. I also was in a round about way pointing out that it wouldn't surprise me at all to get outshot by a M4

husker
August 22, 2009, 06:14 PM
I have to agree with 1858. i have both. & shoot the hell out of both. My colt sport is more accurate. but kinda picky about what she eats for dinner. where as the mini has an appetite for any food i put on the plate. & never jams. But my Rem Mohawk 600 222 that POP had re chambered to fire 5.56 is my crown jewel. Just because it was my POPS rifle

NC-Mike
August 22, 2009, 09:50 PM
Redneck with a 40 wrote

I like my mini.


Get that rifle off the chair! :eek:

What are you, a redneck or sumtin? :cuss:






:D

NC-Mike
August 22, 2009, 09:57 PM
OK, now I'm curious.

Several people have opined the AR has its strengths and weaknesses just as the mini does. I'm not buying it. :)

I can see where the strengths of the AR compensate for what the mini lacks but what exactly does the mini offer that an AR does not? :confused:

And paleeze, don't say aesthetics or price. Lets talk function...


Easier cleaning? Ya gotta be kidding me. There's a 12 year old girl on YouTube who can field strip an AR in under a minute...




The only reason the mini is enjoying a resurgence with the non-bingo-playing public is Ruger made it tacticool.

Just like an AR.

jimmyraythomason
August 22, 2009, 10:07 PM
From what I can see AR-15 prices are way down not only from the Obama buying craze but also from their height in the 1990s. When I bought my Bushmaster plain Jane in the late 1990s they were much higher than they are today. I priced a new Colt HBAR at a local gun shop at $1000. Wal-mart had 2 HBARs for $800 ea(I got sick and missed out). I wound up at another gunshop where they had a used Colt for $1160 and a used Bushy ES-15 for $1060. Cash price was $200 less so I bought the Bushy W/30rd Colt magazine for $860+tax. A high price by todays standards.

Expertowgunner
August 22, 2009, 10:51 PM
am i the only person who thinks that the new tacticool rugers are crap. seriously i have NEVER liked tapco or ati stocks as they are cheaply made and wouldnt stand up to serious abuse. dont believe me there is a vide0 that compares tapco, ati, kvar, arsenal, and a few other stock companies that were for the ak. watch and see the crapco stock bust in half when it falls off a 10 foot drop onto concrete not good enough for me to risk my life with thats for damn sure.

Rexster
August 23, 2009, 04:01 AM
I like my Minis just fine, and prefer their handling qualities to the AR15, by far. I have an AR15, too. Both weapon systems have their place. I sold off my collapsible-stock skinny-barrel Colt AR15 Govt Carbine a while back, to a fellow LEO. My present AR15 is built around a Colt HBAR upper, and has a full A2 stock. For something light and agile, I like the Mini. One of my minis has a Sage International chassis-style stock, with a collapsible buttstock. The other has a standard factory stock. Life is good.

dougiefreshhh
August 24, 2009, 11:08 PM
NC-Mike:

What you want a .223 semi to do for you is totally....up....to...YOU.
However, how the weapon appears IS an element of FUNCTIONALITY. If you want to be able to stand on your porch, holding your bushy, and scare the zombies over to your neighbor, then an AR does that job MUCH better than a mini.

If you want to walk down the street with a semi .223 on your back and not draw that much attention to yourself...then the mini is better.

Case in point: you will find more gun laws against an AR than a Mini. "Functionally".. they are about the same...right?

Consider a Ferarri - bright, red, kicks A$$...but it looks like its doing 100mph sitting still. Put it next to a grey dodge hemi R/T. "Functionally", the Dodge will keep up with it 80-85% of the time, but which car gets most of the attention?

That was my point in my earlier post. OVERALL, the mini for ME, makes more SENSE. However, what makes sense for me, what I want from a rifle, etc.... may not make sense for you.

So as someone said earlier, there will always be room to debate this topic.

Mini - less finicky; will eat what you feed it, easier to clean, blends with the crowd,.etc.
AR - outstanding shooting performance, select diet, comes in 100 flavors, needs a regular bath, and stands out as a real show stopper.

R.W.Dale
August 25, 2009, 12:42 AM
I still don't know where you mini guys get the idea your platform is eaiser to clean. I can have my bolt out and in my hand in pieces in 20 seconds. Plus an AR can be cleaned from the breach. As for ammo pickiness both my ar's get by just fine with even the cheapest thirld world ammo.


Or mabye you concider the mini to be less picky because it's just as inaccurare with high end match ammo as it is wolf.

As to the rifles apperance and image.... Well I hate to break it to ya but it isn't 1954

jbkebert
August 25, 2009, 12:55 AM
I have owned two mini ranch rifles and sold them both. I don't know what possesed me to by the second. With a good scope, a good red dot, and with open sights it proved to be inaccurate. Did you ever watch episodes of the A-team. They could shoot hundreds of rounds through their mini-14 and hit nothing. I think that was the most realistic part of the show.:D

1858
August 25, 2009, 01:36 AM
what exactly does the mini offer that an AR does not? And paleeze, don't say aesthetics or price. Lets talk function...

How about 100% reliability. I've never owned an AR that didn't have a feeding, chambering, ejection or FTF issue at some time or another. And I'm not talking just once or twice. Heck, every match I go to there's always an issue or two with the AR high power shooters ... usually a feeding or FTF problem. On the other hand, I've never had any issues with either of my Minis and thousands of rounds. They feed, fire and eject EVERYTHING!! Just look at the position of the same round in the Mini-14 magazine and compare it to the position in an AR magazine. The Mini magazine puts the round in a much better position relative the chamber ... it's almost a straight shot with no feedramps required. The position of a round in an AR magazine is considerably lower and further from the chamber requiring feedramps to negotiate the convoluted path over the lugs. Also, compare the ejection "port" openings. Is it any wonder that Minis are 100% reliable in terms of feeding and ejecting cases and ARs are prone to issues.

Another thing I like about the Mini-14 is that you can buy them in stainless steel. If you spend any time in a corrosive environment this is a good thing. I consider a stainless steel Mini to be an excellent hiking/camping rifle. You could drop it down a ravine and it'll stay together with no take-down pins to worry about, no dust covers to deal with, no gas tubes to bend etc. It would be my choice over an AR any day (for that purpose).

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/ar15/parts/mini14_feed.jpg

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/ar15/parts/mini14_feed2.jpg

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/ar15/parts/ar15_feed.jpg


Easier cleaning? Ya gotta be kidding me. There's a 12 year old girl on YouTube who can field strip an AR in under a minute...

I still don't know where you mini guys get the idea your platform is eaiser to clean.

What cleaning does a mini require? NADA!! The action stays so clean that the most you might have to do after 200 rounds is run a patch through the barrel if you so choose which takes all of 30 seconds. I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't want to be fumbling with an AR in the field with the carrier, bolt, cam pin, firing pin and cotter pin lying around while I try to keep crap off everything. With the Mini, just drop a bore snake or old fashioned brass weight on a string through the muzzle (with a cleaning patch), pull it out of the chamber and you're good to go.

:)

kdstrick
August 25, 2009, 02:30 AM
I've owned both a mini14 and a mini30. They were both reliable. The accuracy is in the 3"-4" range, which is completely unacceptable in my book for a rifle.

To contrast, my 20" bbl, Colt AR15 will shoot 1/2" groups (100 yds) with cheap Norinco ammunition and a 4x scope. My RRA AR15 with a 16" middy upper shoots 2"-2.5" groups (100 yds). It is the most inaccurate rifle I own, but I like the compactness of the rifle. I've owned 3 AR15's and never had a jam or malfunction of any kind.

I'm not trying to 'pile-on' here, but I just don't find inaccurate rifles interesting. Other than the inaccuracy, I think the mini's are good, reliable rifles. The safety inside the trigger guard always made me nervous though... I'd rather not be required to have my finger inside the trigger guard to disengage the safety.

I don't think either one is easier to clean than the other, they are both silly-easy to clean.

1858
August 25, 2009, 02:45 AM
To contrast, my 20" bbl, Colt AR15 will shoot 1/2" groups (100 yds) with cheap Norinco ammunition and a 4x scope.

I've been shooting way too long to believe that!! With quality reloads and a quality bullet ... maybe. With cheap "Norinco" ammunition ... no way. My 24" DPMS upper (3.5 - 10x scope) will consistently shoot sub 1/2 MOA with 77gr SMK bullets and either Varget or IMR 4895 powder but 2" is the norm with XM193 from the same rifle. How the heck you can get 1/2" groups at 100 yards with that stuff (and a 4x scope) is beyond me. As for three ARs and "no malfunction of any kind" ... hmmm .... makes me wonder.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5855531&postcount=33

As for 3"-4" accuracy with a Mini at 100 yards ... with iron sights and 100% reliability, I'll take it. That's more than good enough for its intended purpose.

For the record, I hope that none of you Mini haters own an FAL, AK-47, CETME, C93 etc .... the hypocrisy would be too much to bear!!

:)

kdstrick
August 25, 2009, 02:49 AM
I'll see if I can find the target... I used to carry it in my wallet so I could show my buddies.

1858
August 25, 2009, 02:52 AM
I'll see if I can find THE target ... I used to carry it in my wallet so I could show my buddies.

Oh I see ... there's only one ... a 3-shot group no doubt!

:)

kdstrick
August 25, 2009, 03:14 AM
Yup! just one, and it was a 3 shot group.

When I get a group going like that I know I am due for a 4th shot flyer... :) You gotta know when to stop shooting sometimes.

The AR is a preban HBAR target model, if memory serves. It's too late to go drag it out of the safe.

It is a very consistent shooter, MOA all day long and 100% reliable. To clarify my above post a bit, I'll explain my uses for a rifle, and why accuracy is important to me.

I like to plink with my rifles a bit, but their primary purpose is hunting. The mini accuracy at 100 yds is poor enough to miss the heart of a deer, and is awful dicey at 150-200 yds. Forget anything over that. It may hit a deer or pig at that range, but likely would only wound it. That is why I sold or traded out of them. It doesn't work for my uses. But, hey if the accuracy is ok for someone else's uses, then that is just fine with me. :) It is still a free country...

NC-Mike
August 25, 2009, 09:27 AM
How about 100% reliability. I've never owned an AR that didn't have a feeding, chambering, ejection or FTF issue at some time or another. And I'm not talking just once or twice. Heck, every match I go to there's always an issue or two with the AR high power shooters ... usually a feeding or FTF problem. On the other hand, I've never had any issues with either of my Minis and thousands of rounds. They feed, fire and eject EVERYTHING!! Just look at the position of the same round in the Mini-14 magazine and compare it to the position in an AR magazine. The Mini magazine puts the round in a much better position relative the chamber ... it's almost a straight shot with no feedramps required. The position of a round in an AR magazine is considerably lower and further from the chamber requiring feedramps to negotiate the convoluted path over the lugs. Also, compare the ejection "port" openings. Is it any wonder that Minis are 100% reliable in terms of feeding and ejecting cases and ARs are prone to issues.


That is a specious argument. You're comparing the reliability of the mini to what is essentially the longest serving rifle in US military history. There is nothing wrong with the AR's ability to feed and fire ammo. It been there, done that and got the T-shirt. Time after time. The mini is not more reliable than the AR. This is amplified by a power of ten when it comes to select-fire versions as well. :)

The AR, America's Rifle!


Another thing I like about the Mini-14 is that you can buy them in stainless steel. If you spend any time in a corrosive environment this is a good thing. I consider a stainless steel Mini to be an excellent hiking/camping rifle. You could drop it down a ravine and it'll stay together with no take-down pins to worry about, no dust covers to deal with, no gas tubes to bend etc. It would be my choice over an AR any day (for that purpose).


And you can get an AR in stainless with chromed components if you so desire. That includes the bolt, receiver and lower parts kit.

Its funny but I never find myself worrying about my take-down pins or dust cover. Should I? :eek:

What cleaning does a mini require? NADA!! The action stays so clean that the most you might have to do after 200 rounds is run a patch through the barrel if you so choose which takes all of 30 seconds.

A non-issue. An AR will send a 1,000 rounds down range without a cleaning if it has too. Its been time tested and battle proven. :)

Again, I'm not really trying to drive the mini's nose into the dirt, its just that I see no practical advantage to owning a mini over an AR, as has been put forth by several posters claiming that the AR has its strengths and weaknesses.

I still don't see the weakness aspect of the AR platform when compared to the mini. :D

NC-Mike
August 25, 2009, 09:29 AM
NC-Mike:

What you want a .223 semi to do for you is totally....up....to...YOU.
However, how the weapon appears IS an element of FUNCTIONALITY. If you want to be able to stand on your porch, holding your bushy, and scare the zombies over to your neighbor, then an AR does that job MUCH better than a mini.

If you want to walk down the street with a semi .223 on your back and not draw that much attention to yourself...then the mini is better.

Case in point: you will find more gun laws against an AR than a Mini. "Functionally".. they are about the same...right?

Consider a Ferarri - bright, red, kicks A$$...but it looks like its doing 100mph sitting still. Put it next to a grey dodge hemi R/T. "Functionally", the Dodge will keep up with it 80-85% of the time, but which car gets most of the attention?

That was my point in my earlier post. OVERALL, the mini for ME, makes more SENSE. However, what makes sense for me, what I want from a rifle, etc.... may not make sense for you.

So as someone said earlier, there will always be room to debate this topic.

Mini - less finicky; will eat what you feed it, easier to clean, blends with the crowd,.etc.
AR - outstanding shooting performance, select diet, comes in 100 flavors, needs a regular bath, and stands out as a real show stopper.

A mini blends in better?

With crowds?

OK... :scrutiny:

dom1104
August 25, 2009, 09:46 AM
To contrast, my 20" bbl, Colt AR15 will shoot 1/2" groups (100 yds) with cheap Norinco ammunition and a 4x scope


Ok this thread is getting weird. The mini owners band toghether, the AR owners talk about near impossible groups, its getting weird.

DammitBoy
August 25, 2009, 12:36 PM
The whole argument is what's silly. Own either one, own both, who cares?

I own both and enjoy both. I take my Mini hunting and I take my AR to the range and have not been disappointed with either in regard to performance or reliability.

Get over it and move on folks... :rolleyes:

NC-Mike
August 25, 2009, 05:31 PM
Get over it and move on folks...

Move on to what?

The Glock vs 1911 great debate?

dougiefreshhh
August 26, 2009, 12:53 AM
glock vs 1911 vs sig....now yer' talkin'

Ignition Override
August 26, 2009, 01:07 AM
Ok...now some of you guys have really done it (:eek:). Nobody wants to reveal the gun's role in another movie.

Not only did a kangaroo hunter use a Mini 14 with a high-cap. mag in the first part of "Crocodile Dundee 2", but so did one of the bad guys who went to the outback searching for Dundee. By the way, Mick's rifle was a sporterized Lee-Enfield :).

Although my ('90) Mini 14 has only used about 1,400 rds. of Wolf and Silver Bear, it never had a single operating glitch :) - none at all.
This is despite the fact that the the primary mag 90% of the time was a 30-rd. aftermarket polymer by Promag which always had a wobbly fit.

dougiefreshhh
August 26, 2009, 12:14 PM
Ignition - some people like steak...some like chicken...both will feed you fine. its personal preference. one gun can not "out spec" the other.

...and that's all I've got to say about that.

jaholder1971
August 28, 2009, 12:08 AM
I'll put my Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308 up against you're AR at 200 yards, with federal GMM ammo, any day of the week!

I fold!

However, I've got a match tuned CMP Ar I had Phil Arrington tune for me that I'd probably take you up on if you let me scope it...

Art Eatman
August 28, 2009, 12:39 PM
Enuf...

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