[American Rifleman]

Is there any way to tell if reloaded ammunition you buy from someone is good. Meaning to me not going to blow up my gun. I thought that one thing I could do is after I buy them take them home and weigh them. If there close to my store bought stuff I would use it. Would that work? Any other ideas? What do you think?
-American Rifleman

P.S.-I've heard local horror stories about a guy who bought some reloaded 30-06 for his M1 and it blew up on him. He now has a lawsuit.

[rcmodel]

NO, there is no way to tell.

A 30-06 half full of Bullseye pistol powder will blow up your gun, even though it weighs 20 grains less then a case full of the proper rifle powder.

A .38 Spl target load with no powder in it will weigh 2.7 grains less then one properly charged. But only If that case isn't 1.3 grains heavier and that lead bullet isn't 1.4 grains heavier!

There is too much variation in case / bullet / primer / powder to make weighing any use at all. Not to mention there is no way of knowing if it is even the right powder.

If you must buy reloads, buy them from Black Hills or some other major player in reloaded ammo.

Joe Blowmeup at the gun show, or the guy down the street is not that guy.

rc

[hddeluxe]

To the best of my knowledge, there is no absolute way of knowing if rounds loaded by someone you do not know are going to be safe. Even though you would weigh the round, the additional variables of what type or types of powder are used, the primer, cartridge overall length (pressure issue) etc do not make weighing a reliable method. It comes down to the old adage of "Buyer Beware"

[Avenger29]

Quite simple, don't buy reloaded ammo from amateurs. Do not use ammo reloaded by amateurs. Reload your own or buy from a professional reloader.

[rcmodel]

Joe Blowmeup at the gun-show is a "professional reloader" if he is selling reloads.

But that doesn't mean he is licensed, or has a clue what he is doing, or wasn't drunk while he was doing it!

rc

[Deavis]

Joe Blowmeup at the gun show, or the guy down the street is not that guy.

Aren't we all the guy down the street from someone? Would most of you claim that your reloads are safe to shoot? Do most of you allow your friends and family to fire ammunition that you've loaded? I'm just curious, I'm not judging.

Would you trust Collins Cartridge, a Joe Blowmeup Gun Show Dealer, with an 06 FFL and a highly automated setup using roll-sized brass, Scharch case inspection machines, and production quality Camdex machinery to remanufacture his ammo? How many of you are using that type of equipment, carry liability insurance, and inspect every single round loaded? Blanket statements like that are a bit over the top, but that is just my opinion. We blindly trust factory ammunition but not "reloads".

Treat this like any other purchase. Research the seller, determine your level of confidence by asking pointed questions, and then decide if you want to buy his product.

[ljnowell]

Aren't we all the guy down the street from someone? Would most of you claim that your reloads are safe to shoot? Do most of you allow your friends and family to fire ammunition that you've loaded? I'm just curious, I'm not judging.

Would you trust Collins Cartridge, a Joe Blowmeup Gun Show Dealer, with an 06 FFL and a highly automated setup using roll-sized brass, Scharch case inspection machines, and production quality Camdex machinery to remanufacture his ammo? How many of you are using that type of equipment, carry liability insurance, and inspect every single round loaded? Blanket statements like that are a bit over the top, but that is just my opinion. We blindly trust factory ammunition but not "reloads".

Treat this like any other purchase. Research the seller, determine your level of confidence by asking pointed questions, and then decide if you want to buy his product.

I think you misinterpretted what he said, or suffered selective reading. He is referring to the guy selling reloads in ziploc bags at the gun show not a large commercial reloader. In fact he said

If you must buy reloads, buy them from Black Hills or some other major player in reloaded ammo.

Joe Blowmeup at the gun show, or the guy down the street is not that guy.

[Mags]

Aren't we all the guy down the street from someone? Would most of you claim that your reloads are safe to shoot? Do most of you allow your friends and family to fire ammunition that you've loaded? I'm just curious, I'm not judging. I shoot my reloads I try to keep my friends from shooting them I explain to my friends I have reloads but sometimes they still pick up a gun of mine and fire em off. So my rules are friends will never fire my reloads in their guns.

[Jon_Snow]

It's not that the average reloader isn't safe, it's that the worst reloader is less safe than the worse ammo manufacturer. And none of us want to be they guy that proves that. Personally, when I take my friends shooting I hand them the store bought ammo and I shoot my reloads. I think I'm plenty safe, but I'm not going to stake someone else's life on it.

[matrem]

So my rules are friends will never fire my reloads in their guns.
A good reloader/handloader will trust his loads every bit as much(usually more)than ANY commercial loader.

[rcmodel]

Aren't we all the guy down the street from someone?Yes we are, but we don't sell reloads, and are not a licensed manufacture.

I shoot my reloads, my family shoots my reloads, and my friends may shoot my reloads if they so choose. In my guns.
The guns the loads were developed in.

Whether or not those same reloads are safe in everyone else's guns is open to question, although I don't doubt they are.

The point I was trying to make is, with the recent hike in ammo prices, and scarcity of ammo, I have seen more and more "reloaders" selling who knows what at gun shows.

A prudent person wouldn't buy it.

rc

[JGAreddog]

Use the same wisdom as when you buy anything else. Have they been in business for a long time? Is there any incriminating evidence about them on the web? does the product "look" shootable? And the last thing is if you don't feel comfortable by all mean DO NOT BUY IT. These rules apply to everything you buy.

Some big time loaders will use powders that can fill the entire case without a explosion in rifle cartridges. Then after all the rounds have passed through the powder checks..ect they are passed through a inspection machine which weighs every case to see if anything is "Way" off. But the safest thing for sure is guaranteeing yourself to not overload the ammunition and also the checker to make sure you don't have a squib or a underpowered blow up.

[rondog]

Think about how many different kinds of gunpowders there are...what, 3 dozen or more? Pistol, rifle, shotgun, black powder, etc. Who knows what was put in 'em, and how much? Then all the different types and weights of bullets, primers, and so on.

I've ruined two 1911 barrels myself, using MY OWN reloads, by not putting enough powder in and causing squibs. I'm not going to trust somebody else's reloads. Factory ammo is enough of a crapshoot.

[Mags]

I said So my rules are friends will never fire my reloads in their guns.
Matrem replied
A good reloader/handloader will trust his loads every bit as much(usually more)than ANY commercial loader.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I don't trust my reloads. The fact of the matter is I don't trust my friend's ability to maintain a clean and functioning firearm so they can shoot my reloads if they must from my guns and my guns only.

[matrem]

I shoot my reloads I try to keep my friends from shooting them I explain to my friends I have reloads but sometimes they still pick up a gun of mine and fire em off
Was NOT talking about firearm specific loads.
OP was asking about buying loads from other folks.
Though I trust good handloaders..I know only a handfull that I'll shoot anything they tell me is good ,no questions asked(more importantly,have my daughter shoot),and I know them REALLY well!
Anyone buying handloads/reloads..NEEDS to be sure of the source!

[wankerjake]

One thing to look for is that the primers are seated all the way and the bullets are seated to the same depth. I've seen these errors before at gun shows and there is no way in hell that I would shoot that ammo if they can't even get that right. Another thing you can ask is what load he uses. You can probably check the data online. If they just say something like "they're really hot" I wouldn't shoot them either. Also if the guy seems at all like an idiot, I'd pass.

I'm not recommending that you buy and shoot reloads, but I also don't think it's the deathtrap they make it out to be on this site. I bought a few reloads before I started reloading myself and before I knew any better. It really is easy to not screw up if you pay attention, but a lot of people stop paying attention I think. The problem is that a small mistake can lead to something really bad.

[jcwit]

I shoot my reloads I try to keep my friends from shooting them I explain to my friends I have reloads but sometimes they still pick up a gun of mine and fire em off. So my rules are friends will never fire my reloads in their guns

A friend who picks up ANY of my firearms and starts to fire em off will be soundly told to put them down and back off and more than likely will no longer be considered a close friend. If I invite them than thats a different matter. None of my reloads are available to anyone for any reason, I trust myself but very few others. This is after 50 plus years of reloading.

[oneounceload]

selling ammo that you made without the federal licenses is one way to spend some time with folks at "club fed"..........besides the aspect that you have no idea what is in there

[matrem]

besides the aspect that you have no idea what is in there
No idea what's in your "own" ammo.... or what's in "club fed"?

[1SOW]

Would you trust Collins Cartridge?

Actually yes, mostly. I've fired thousands of his 9mm. I had an order arrive that had numerous FTE's. I contacted Art Collins (CCC AMMO)and he said his dies were due replacement, and he promptly sent me another 1000 rds. He's a good reputable dealer, but even his high dollar equipment can fail or at least wane.

All it cost me was a wasted USPSA shoot. I started reloading, so I'd have no one to blame but myself. I'd sure hate to have one of my reloads hurt anyone, because blaming myself wouldn't help one little bit.

[Nicodemus38]

you cannot simply buy a carton or ziploc baggie of ammunition you find at the gun show on some "reloaders" table. To many variables pop up that can create a disastrous situation.
For example, you cannot tell what the actual load is. To find bullets out youd have to tear each cartridge apart and investigate with scale and calipers. who wants to find that bubba joe loaded a dozen 300 grain colt slugs into your 100 round ziplock bag of 45 acp?
you cant tell how much powder is in there without weighing the charge in each case, and that only tells you the amount, not the type of powder. to find type of powder youd need excess to a lab at an actual company like remington or umc or olin, to have any idea and they couldnt give you the exact product.
ie who wants to use 10 cent per round ammo in your $1500 kimber in 45acp when they used powder meant for say a 416 rigby or a 50 cal machine gun?

also who can say they even used the right cartridge casing for their cheapo ammo? i bet if you searched youd find lots of high end buffalo bore type loads for 357, 44 mag, 454, etc loaded into 38 spcl/44 spcl/45 colt cases.

[Deavis]

I think you misinterpretted what he said, or suffered selective reading. He is referring to the guy selling reloads in ziploc bags at the gun show not a large commercial reloader.

Did I? Not picking on you or rcmodel but he said this:

Joe Blowmeup at the gun-show is a "professional reloader" if he is selling reloads.

he didn't say anything about ziplock bags. You were the first person on this thread to say anything about ziplock bags. Art Collins is NOT a major player in the industry, but he is hardly some Joe Blowmeup at the gunshow. What constitutes a major player, we have no real guidance from RCModel, but clearly if Black Hills is the goalpost, then almost all 06s are small time Blowmeups. Art used to use plastic bags before he started using styrofoam for all packaging. The packaging in no way affects the quality of the rounds he produced. Did you suffer from selective reading and miss my point?

Treat this like any other purchase. Research the seller, determine your level of confidence by asking pointed questions, and then decide if you want to buy his product.

as RC says,

A prudent person wouldn't buy it.

I, personally, believe that a prudent person decideds whether to buy the ammunition or any other product based on the facts available to them. What suffices for you is not necessarily the best way, applicable to all people, or even logical in many cases. Here, let me give you another example.

you cannot simply buy a carton or ziploc baggie of ammunition you find at the gun show on some "reloaders" table. To many variables pop up that can create a disastrous situation.
For example, you cannot tell what the actual load is.

Ok, how is that ANY different from buying a box of ammuntion off the shelf at your local gun store? Before anyone gets upset, think about it... Do you know anything about the load in there? No, you don't. You don't know the powder, primer, or bullet with any real certainty. Are you positive the gun shop didn't switch them out with their own Joe Blowmeup load and matched the headstamp? Are you sure that Winchester got a 165gr FP in there instead of a 180gr FP? Can you be sure that the factory didn't cut some corners and buy some cheap brass from a 2nd hand source in one of those substandard 3rd world countries? Anyone want to dispute that with facts? Anyone know exactly what powder is in all of their factory ammo with 95% confidence? Anyone know with 95% confidence that every single round has an OAL within 0.010" of the FACTORY target?

You buy factory without a second thought because you have confidence in it from a variety of factors, MOST of it from second hand or personal usage experience NOT from actual analysis of the ammunition. Is that completely logical or even objective? Because the box says Winchester, you assume it really is foolproof? If some shady looking, whatever that means, guy was trying to see you a case of WWB out of the beatup raggety of a car, would you buy it? I guess it depends on how much you KNOW, wouldn't it?

The OP started off with:

P.S.-I've heard local horror stories about a guy who bought some reloaded 30-06 for his M1 and it blew up on him. He now has a lawsuit.

Yeah? I've heard of factory ammo missing primers, having cracked brass, and blowing up guns. Oh the horror. I've also heard that primers will blow your hand off or ignite in an explosion worthy of 1lb of C-4 if dropped on concrete. Who is really being silly here once we consider the situation objectively and ignore the hype?

In both cases, the truth is that you don't actually know the ammunition can be trusted but by analyzing the facts and asking questions you can come to a viable answer. You assume that factory ammo is loaded using a good process, that they are licensed, that they have insurance, etc... Probably good assumptions but don't assume that because some guy at a gunshow has plastic baggies of ammo that it is crap. Some reloaders produce amazingly safe, accurate, and economical loads using good processes. That Joe Blowmeup may be one of them, why not ask some questions and see what you can find out before dismissing it out of hand.

[Arlin Mc]

A few months ago after a similar thread, as a test I purchased a bag of 9mm reloads at one of my local gun shops.

After hammering open all 50 rounds I found that some came apart with just one hammer blow while others required over 60, many of the bullets were crimped through the jacket. Powder averaged about 3 grains but varied from 1.6 to as much as 3.4 grains.

While this was just one sample, I would not consider any reloads not from a major manufacurer with proper labeling. I agree with rcmodel.

Arlin

[oneounceload]

Unless you have a license to make ammunition, it is against the law to sell reloaded ammunition - it doesn't get any plainer than that.

If you buy from someone at a gun show that is not a licensed maker - whether reloaded or new, that is very bad ju-ju.......

[Zeke/PA]

I have made it a practice to NOT shoot anyone else's reloads.
However, I furnish reloaded hunting rifle ammo to two hunting buddies and to my grandson.
People have a tendency to mass produce pistol ammo hence I derive my caution.

[Deavis]

Unless you have a license to make ammunition, it is against the law to sell reloaded ammunition - it doesn't get any plainer than that.


Absolutely untrue from a Federal perspective, go read the law. You can look in the GCA or 27 CFR


Subpart D—Licenses
top
§ 478.41 General.
top
(a) Each person intending to engage in business as an importer or manufacturer of firearms or ammunition, or a dealer in firearms shall, before commencing such business, obtain the license required by this subpart for the business to be operated. Each person who desires to obtain a license as a collector of curios or relics may obtain such a license under the provisions of this subpart.


You need a license if you intend to engage in the business of manufacturing ammunition. This is no different than an unlicensed person selling a gun at a gun show, you don't need an FFL to sell a firearm but you do if it is your business. People need to stop making blanket statments like that not based on facts. It doesn't get any plainer than that.

After hammering open all 50 rounds I found...

Now that is the way, in my opinion, a prudent person starts a sentence about remanufactured ammunition. Thanks for sharing your experience and data.

[FROGO207]

PASS IT ON

I do not sell anyone reloads but I will allow some of my friends and family members to help me and LEARN how to reload using my equipment. I request that they pay for materials used or supply replacements in like kind. Teaching them how to reload is rewarding and they are assembling them for their own use so there are no liability issues to deal with. So far all the ones that I have mentored have gone on to become reloaders and I hope to show many more how to safely reload their own quality ammo.

The thought is that if more of you reloaders were able to do as I am doing there would be less of a market for " joe blowmeup" to be involved with as well as keeping the reloading of ammo in the front of everyones face and not allow it to become extinct.

[JCisHe]

Here are the rules I live by:

1). If I want to blow up my gun and have to sue someone... I will buy reloads.
2). If I want to get sued for blowing up someone else's gun... I will sell reloads.
3). If I don't want those things to happen I will never shoot anyone else's reloads and I don't sell mine.
4). Rules 1-3 keep me, my bank account, and my weapons safe and place the blame where it belongs; on me.
5). Since I am responsible for my own decisions and actions if I do buy or sell reloads I will accept my fate or be willing to not bring a lawsuit against someone for the reason that I chose to shoot their reloads.

[qajaq59]

If the guy is licensed and insured, and has been loading ammo for the sheriff's dept for 10 years, I might considering shooting his ammo. Otherwise, No Way!!!

[ljnowell]

Did I? Not picking on you or rcmodel but he said this:


I dont think you are picking on anyone at all, I am just saying that RC said that reputable large scale reloaders were OK, as I quoted above, and here:

If you must buy reloads, buy them from Black Hills or some other major player in reloaded ammo.


And yes, I did bring up the ziploc bag thing, to further the example. What RC said about "professional" is a play on words. Technically if you reload and sell them for money, you are a professional. That doesnt mean that you are professional, get it?

[jackdanson]

Quite simple, don't buy reloaded ammo from amateurs. Do not use ammo reloaded by amateurs. Reload your own or buy from a professional reloader.

Yep, I don't even let people shoot my own reloads. I'll let people use my equipment and show them how to reload, but I won't do it myself.

[mallc]

Absolutely untrue from a Federal perspective, go read the law. You can look in the GCA or 27 CFR

From the Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide - 2005: pg 185

Q: Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer?

A: Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use.

I'm betting the AFT interprets "personal use" to be just that when determining whether or not a person who distributes reloaded ammunition is a manufacturer.

Whether or not to buy from Joe Reloader is a separate question. Not everyone has the technical capability or desire to build customized ammunition for a particular firearm and duty. Plus, there are a lot of huddles between buying a press and producing high quality, reliable ammunition. If the loader/reloader has the credentials, has made the investment and is willing to compete in the marketplace, you might want to give them a good look. They might just produce better ammunition than you do, AND at a lower cost.

Just my 5.65 grains...
Scott

[American Rifleman]

Good idea.

[American Rifleman]

Aren't we all the guy down the street from someone? Would most of you claim that your reloads are safe to shoot? Do most of you allow your friends and family to fire ammunition that you've loaded? I'm just curious, I'm not judging.

Would you trust Collins Cartridge, a Joe Blowmeup Gun Show Dealer, with an 06 FFL and a highly automated setup using roll-sized brass, Scharch case inspection machines, and production quality Camdex machinery to remanufacture his ammo? How many of you are using that type of equipment, carry liability insurance, and inspect every single round loaded? Blanket statements like that are a bit over the top, but that is just my opinion. We blindly trust factory ammunition but not "reloads".

Treat this like any other purchase. Research the seller, determine your level of confidence by asking pointed questions, and then decide if you want to buy his product.
Oops, Good idea.

[evan price]

BATFE requires an 06 FFL from anyone who sells reloads. Personal use means just that. If you are selling reloads at a gun show you are not making personal use ammo. That's the law. Not even considering ITAR.

There's a guy on Craigslist who advertises all the time around me for ammo components for sale. When you call him up, he's actually selling reloaded ammo he makes himself with his Dillon. Sells them packed up in USPS free postal shipping boxes (the size a box of checks comes in) so he's already using post office supplies for non postal use which I believe is a federal crime. Deals in cash only so he's not reporting the income, and he's not got an 06 FFL. Want to bet he's got no liability insurance too? The boxes are blank, just caliber and bullet. No name. If he's afraid to put his name on the box, is he going to stand behind his work later?

I would not buy from someone who I did not trust. Someone who is trying to pull a fast one on BATFE or possibly the IRS is not someone I'm inclined to trust.

I'm sure there are many reputable small reloaders out there- and they are quite willing to provide proof that they are good guys if you ask.

[lifelongnra]

Just a note about name brand ammo.
By the way I was reading this thread and I thought I would join.
So hello to all you guy's out there. I am a new user on the forum.
Anyway
I purchased a box of name brand ammo that we all purchase regularly from any store.
It was an old box and the cases had started to corrode so I thought I would remove the bullet and just replace with newer brass, primer and maybe powder. I pulled the bullet weighed the powder just to see how much they used and what type if I could tell. Boy was I shocked!! Not 1 of the cartridges were even close to the other they were as far off as 7 grains and no closer than 2 grains. (factory ammo huh)
Now I reload if you didn't figure that out and I weigh all of my loads very carefully as not to be off by anymore than .01 of a grain. and load for accuracy as I don't think there is another reason to reload but after I saw the difference to me as a major variation of the factory cartridges I don't understand why most people put so much trust in the factory ammo.
I called and wrote the manufacturer and received back a real cheesy excuse for such a wide variation. I was told that they do not use any powder that can be purchased on the market and that the loading books we have do not match there loading ballistics. They never brought up the question of why there was such a variance in the loads.

So the only ammo I care to shoot is my own except for the ammo I cannot load 22 rimfire And I have had many of those misfire. Although I have fired and do fire factory and military ammo I am way more afraid of the factory ammo than my reloads.
There is a wide range that a cartridge can be safely loaded as long as you have the right powder for the round.
Just be careful when using anything that goes BOOM.

Also As far as selling/reselling reloaded ammo it appears to me that if you sell it you are automatically engaging in the business and are making money for profit. It would be hard to prove that you had a lose. Just my opinion!!

Peace to all!

[rondog]

Why, shore dey have gunpowder in 'em, LOTS of it! Boolets too! Powder is powder and boolets is boolets! They'll all go BOOM fer ya feller, whutcha worried about?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/funnies/deliverance20mighty20purty20mouth.jpg

[X-Rap]

Back when I first got a progressive I fantasized about trying to go commercial and load for the PD,SO, and DOC in the area but when confronted with liability and licensing it became much less attractive, not to mention competing with well established suppliers.
I let my family blast away with my reloads and if a friend who doesn't want to reload needs a couple boxes a year for hunting I will hook him up, other than that somebody will have to steal the stuff if they want it.

[qajaq59]

If you really want to mess up a great hobby, just start doing it for money!!!

And Rondog, where did you get MY picture? :evil:

[goon]

I have made it a practice to NOT shoot anyone else's reloads.

What he said.
The only reloads I allow in any of my guns are my own, or a few that I have supervised the loading of when teaching someone else how to reload.
And I won't let anyone shoot anything other than decent factory ammo out of my guns either. Guns are expensive and I'm not going to risk damage to mine, along with the accompanying injuries, so that I or some other yahoo can save three bucks.

[J&S Custom Bullets]

There isn't really any way to tell, my suggestion for you is to reload your own bullets so you know what your shooting (it's cheaper to).

[CHEVELLE427]

i started reloading 30+ years ago when i had bought some factory reloads and one was a dbl charge that went off in my sf1911.

gun survived but ny hand had holes in it,

still have/shoot the 1911 monthly

i check 10% of any reloads i get form someone else even if i trust them to be correct

[qajaq59]

There are reputable companies that sell safe reloads and if you don't mind spending money that's the way to go. But, like the factory ammo, it is loaded for the average gun and it's not going to be as accurate as it would be if tailored to one specific rifle or pistol. If you plan on shooting for a lot of years then reloading and casting is the way to go. I bought much of my loading gear in the sixties and I couldn't even begin to figure out how much money it has saved me.

[ljnowell]

There isn't really any way to tell, my suggestion for you is to reload your own bullets so you know what your shooting (it's cheaper to). If you would like some custom cast 9mm bullets or some high quality jacketed/JHP 9mm bullets please check out my website http://www.jscustombullets.com


I'm not a mod, and my opinion doesnt count, but I think that it may be against the rules to advertise a business in the open forum. Maybe not, but its tacky. Thats what PMs are for.

[Afy]

Actually why not advertise you're a bullet manufacturer. Most shooting froums are in the US and not all of us live there. Consequently we do not look at the classifieds.
This is a topic about buying reloads...
If you do your due dilligence... I do not see why not. Same as blackhils...

[Roccobro]

I actually like have manufacturers and reps from companies popping in and clearing the air (see current Dillon dead tumbler thread). I also love it when a supplier comes up with a solution or product that fits the "problems" we are discussing (see most of Missouri Bullets posts).

However, blatant spamming gets me clicking "report post" in seconds. I WILL NOT tolerate this fine board being used as a tool to a non-THR minded seller. [/rant]

Justin

[ljnowell]

However, blatant spamming gets me clicking "report post" in seconds. I WILL NOT tolerate this fine board being used as a tool to a non-THR minded seller. [/rant]

Justin

Kinda my thoughts too. When someone joins and posts 10 times 14 days and all of them are pushing their product, well, I lose respect quickly.