[JohnBT]

This is from a post I made on 9/11/03...

"I'm eagerly awaiting the 'other' new mall opening in Richmond in a week or two. There will be a Galyans sporting goods store and I'm trying to figure out how, or if, they are going to sell guns in the City. (The Short Pump mall is in Henrico County.) The City requires an individually obtained buyer permit and a seller permit for each transaction within the City limits."

I meant to call them and ask, but then I slipped a disc in my back...
____________________

From the front page of this morning's Richmond Times-Dispatch...

"No permit, but store sells gun

Reporter buys revolver from Galyan's at the new Stony Point mall

BY PAIGE AKIN
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER Oct 25, 2003


A sporting goods store at Richmond's new mall is selling handguns without the required city permit to do so.

A reporter for The Times-Dispatch bought a .38-caliber Smith & Wesson revolver Thursday from Galyan's at Stony Point Fashion Park in South Richmond. The transaction to purchase the gun and ammunition - including a background check and copying two forms of identification - took an hour.

As of late yesterday, Galyan's did not have a city-issued permit to sell handguns, said Assistant Chief Teresa Gooch of the Richmond Police Department.

"If a retailer doesn't comply with city ordinance, there are some criminal outcomes," she said.


The city also requires handgun buyers to obtain a permit, which the reporter did not have.

The reporter bought the gun with the knowledge of her editors after the newspaper received a tip that the store was selling guns in violation of city ordinances.

Galyan's officials did not provide comment for this story.

Selling handguns without a permit is a Class 1 misdemeanor, punishable by up to 12 months in jail and up to a $2,500 fine. Gooch said she knows of no other gun dealer in the city limits.

"In conversations we've had with the retailer, they are very much intent on complying with our code," Gooch said, adding that Galyan's is licensed by the state and federal government.

Henrico and Chesterfield counties have no waiting period for handgun purchases, nor do they maintain any record of how many retailers in the counties sell handguns.

An old ordinance on the city's books requires a 15-day waiting period for handgun sales. City officials, however, say that ordinance is out of date and has been overridden by state law, which only requires a state-police background check.

The code has been on the city books since 1985.

"If the city code contains important laws that have been deemed unenforceable because of changes in state laws, that's of great concern to me. That means city code isn't being maintained," Richmond Commonwealth's Attorney David M. Hicks said. "Likewise, if these laws are valid, I'm concerned that they aren't being enforced. Either way, it doesn't make us look good."

City Councilman G. Manoli Loupassi said the council is looking at reworking its codes.

"[The waiting-period code] is on the books and it needs to come off the books," he said.

To purchase the revolver on Thursday morning, Galyan's required the Times-Dispatch reporter to fill out two one-page forms for criminal background checks - one required by the state and one by the federal government. A salesperson called in the information.

Less than five minutes later, the sale was approved and the reporter walked out with the gun, which cost $329.99. An extra $2 was tacked on for the state background check.

At no point did store employees ask the buyer for the city's required purchase permit.

Galyan's has more than 40 stores in 19 states.

Dick's, the major sporting-goods store at the new Short Pump Town Center in Henrico County, does not sell handguns. A Dick's employee referred The Times-Dispatch to Galyan's for guns.


Contact Paige Akin at (804) 649-6671 or pakin@timesdispatch.com
Times-Dispatch Staff Writer Chris Dovi contributed to this report. "

_______________________

I knew I should have warned them. Sigh.

John

[Spot77]

QUOTE:

Less than five minutes later, the sale was approved and the reporter walked out with the gun, which cost $329.99. An extra $2 was tacked on for the state background check

--------------------------------------------

We should be so lucky in Maryland. We have to wait SEVEN days AND pay a TEN dollar background check fee.

Maybe the Md State Police could call somebody in Virginia and ask them how they run their background checks so quickly and cost efficient,:banghead:

[Mike Irwin]

Hum....

I'm wondering if the recently passed sets of laws in Virginia override Richmond's permit requirements...

[JohnBT]

They probably do, but if you call City Hall they'll tell you to get the permits because the law is still on the books.

John

[hammer4nc]

So, Richmond has these city ordinances, which may or may not be superceded by state law; may or may not be actively enforced (depending on the mood of the DA?). The most revealing part of the article, however, is:
Gooch said she knows of no other gun dealer in the city limits.

Not-so-unintended consequences?

[cookhj]

that's probably why there aren't any other gun dealers in the city limits. they've all gone to either chesterfield or henrico counties. i hope nothing bad comes out of this.

[JohnBT]

My guess is that the City Council (may God cure them of their ongoing bickering, confusion and indictments) will trip all over themselves to get this fixed asap.

After all, they've taken credit for opening the new mall and all the new tax money that will be coming in. They posed for all those pictures and did the tv interviews and they just can't have a problem with their baby.

I bet not a one of them knew about this gun permit requirement.

John...our City Council is a neverending story.

P.S. - Unrelated to this topic - Recently a veteran teacher took the classroom phone (for the teachers to use when they get hit or shot I guess) away from a student and he pounded her long and hard. One School Board member said something on the order of: She should have known better. He could have been talking to his momma and she could have been sick.

[StressPuppy]

JohnBT,

INTERESTING! I was just in there the other day! (BTW - One of the salesman there used to work at Southern Gun World). Didn't buy a gun, and wasn't in the market, just looking. I was wondering how they did it because I know of no other big "department store" type store that sells handguns, especially in the city.

Leave it to Richmond to have strange stuff on the books. And, please, don't get me started on the City Council. I like this area, but I am out in Glen Allen near Innsbrook (a formerly rural, now suburban, area north of Richmond for those not from around here) and stay away from and out of the city any way I can. Just nuts.

I guess we have to take the good with the bad!

What part of town do you live in?

[StressPuppy]

But you know what, none of those stupid laws in the city make any difference. If you go into some of the "bad" neighborhoods, most of the guns there are illegal anyway. East end of Henrico is the same way.

When I got my CCW permit, I spoke with two different Henrico Police officers I know. They both said the guns that they worry about are NOT the registered, legal ones. The cop working in Eastern Henrico said that 1 of 10 that he comes across is legal.

A very good friend of mine mentors (or tries) youth that have been incarcerated for non-gun related crimes (usually drugs). He says that they always talk about being "strapped" and how they wouldn't go around without it. And we are talking about 15-16-17 year olds!!!


It all just makes my head spin. :banghead:

[JohnBT]

I'm a few blocks from Monument and Boulevard near the VA Museum and the VA Historical Society. I've lived in the area for 30 years find it generally quiet and peaceful - compared to growing up in Baltimore and D.C. anyway. :)

Speaking of City Council, I've got to admit that some days I'm ready to pick up and move closer to my parents and relatives - the Charlottesville/Waynesboro area.

John

[El Tejon]

Well, the guy who asked about the "gun climate" in Ol' Virginny got his answer now.:uhoh:

[StressPuppy]

It's just IN the city. Henrico and Chesterfield are fine. The state has the 1 gun in 30 days (get the second on the 31st day), but other than that I think the gun climate in VA (excluding Northern Va/DC area) is pretty good. Especially when compared to MD!!!!!!

John - I lived in Waynesboro until 1983! Moved down here when I was 16 to live with my dad. I was born here and have always considered Richmond my home. Just wish the city itself wasn't quite so strange some times. Hope to meet you some time. Always good to know another gun owner in the area!

Take care.

[JohnBT]

I always like to meet my neighbors - except the Cuba-visiting Russian professor across the street. She's the one who told my elderly neighbor to take her flag down after 9/11. Stood in the street and shouted at her to take it down and leave it down.

Anyway, I'll be around, but not for awhile. I have an appointment with a back surgeon Tuesday morning to talk about this blankety-blank disc in my back. After 2 month's of hip and leg pain I'm ready for the knife. Percocet takes the edge off it, but that's about all.

Grumble, grumble...it's cutting into my range time and I'm buying too much stuff online.

John

[cookhj]

well john, when you get to feelin' better, let me know and maybe we can make a trip the range or something. it would be nice to get the richmond area TFL'ers together and have a good time.

[StressPuppy]

cookhj,

I'd be up for that too. Just let me know.

[JohnBT]

Here's the lead editorial from this morning's paper. John

___________________

Housekeeping
Richmond Times-Dispatch
Thursday, October 30, 2003


That Galyan's needs city permission to sell guns probably came as a surprise to the sporting-goods store. But Richmonders probably were even more surprised to learn the city requires a permit and a 15-day waiting period to buy a pistol.

The waiting period is an antiquated measure obviated by a state law that mandates a background check through the state police. It should be stricken from the books.

So should the permit requirement, which evidently applies also to "dirks" and "Bowie knives" and even to such sales between neighbors. For one thing, requiring a permit traduces the Second Amendment; one doesn't need a permit to speak, or to worship. For another, the ordinance obviously has no effect on the criminal element that has been driving Richmond's murder rate up again. (Indeed, a recent comprehensive review of gun-control laws by the Centers for Disease Control - including "bans on specified firearms and ammunition, restrictions on firearm acquisition, firearm registration and licensing, concealed-carry laws, child-access-prevention laws, zero-tolerance laws for firearms in schools, and combinations of firearms laws" found "insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws or combinations of laws reviewed on violent outcomes.")

And the ordinance has been routinely ignored.

The way things stand now, removing the two ordinances from the city's books amounts to little more than a housekeeping measure. But there is something to be said for crossing all the t's and dotting all the i's - as both the city and Galyan's now know.


This story can be found at: www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031771821106&path=%21editorials&s=1045855934983

__________________

In addition, there is a front page article announcing that the city is paying 2 police officers to patrol the mall parking lot every night until Christmas. This is in addition to the mall security. There's a statement about how much the city has invested in the mall and how it must succeed because it must succeed. JT

[gun-fucious]

VA: Galyan's Sporting Goods suspends gun sales

Posted 10/30/2003 from TimesDispatch___printer friendly version

"Galyan's sporting goods store at Stony Point Fashion Park has stopped selling guns until it receives the city's required permit for gun sales.

Richmond Police Chief Andre Parker said that as of yesterday, 'I have not received a request' from Galyan's for that permit. But store officials have said they want to 'come in conformance with the current city code,' he added.

Walter Barker, the manager at the Stony Point store, said Galyan's stopped selling guns Friday when they learned they were in violation of city code. The store is 'in the process' of applying for a permit, he added.

By Monday, Galyan's had removed all guns from its shelves and locked glass cases. The gun sales area on the second floor is roped off.

Sales were halted after a story appeared Saturday in The Times-Dispatch about a reporter buying a .38-caliber Smith & Wesson revolver. The store did not have a city permit to sell the gun, and the reporter did not have a permit to buy one.

The store does have the required state and federal licensing, Assistant Police Chief Teresa Gooch said last week. When the reporter purchased the gun, a store clerk performed the required state background check."

You can read the complete story at:
http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031771828745&path=%21news&s=1045855934842

[santai]

I had been in Galyan's a week before, looking at a Browning Buckmark pistol. I walked back in last week and thought I had missed the biggest sale of the century. I still spent about five minutes looking at the price tags in the glass cases to refresh my memory. It must have looked pretty strange to the staff.


santai

[cookhj]

i went to galyan's today and they had everything back out in the shelves. just FYI.

[JohnBT]

The City Council decided in the blink of an eye that those old regs they'd forgotten about weren't enforceable. :)

Told ya they'd bend over backwards to make the mall a success. :)

John

P.S. - There's a small movement afoot to bring back former police chief Oliver - the one who resigned in Detroit for having a gun in his luggage at the airport. 'Round and 'round it goes. He got caught here a couple of years ago trying to get on an airplane with his undeclared service pistol. He wasn't prosecuted.

[alan]

Has anything been said or done about prosecution of the Times-Dispatch reporter, who it seems didn't have this CITY PERMIT either? Just sort of curious.

This story, or a similar one appeared in a recent issue, perhaps the current one, of The New Gun Week.

[cookhj]

just in case i, for some reason, decide to buy from galyan's rather than degoffs or greentop (heaven forbid), no permit to buy is necessary, correct?

[JohnBT]

Correct. No City permit necessary.

I just keep going to Green Top and DeGoffs. I haven't even been to Galyan's yet. I've looked at the fliers in the Sunday papers and just haven't gotten enthused yet. Now, if they start running sales on Coopers, Merkels, CZs and other interesting stuff... :)

The reporter didn't get in any trouble. The City Council swept this whole mess under the rug to get their new Galyan's, at their new mega-hyped mall, back in business with minimal embarrassment to everyone - especially themselves.

I think everything worked out just perfectly. We could have spent 15 years trying to change the law by submitting petitions and not been as successful as one sales-tax-paying retailer with a high profile.

John

[alan]

JohnBT:

That sounds about right. Money talks, and the more money, the louder the talk, talk to which those noble City Father Types always listen.

By the way, was Chief Oliver, lately of the Detroit Mich. PD really an expatriot Virginia Idiot. Years ago, when I lived in the area, folks I ran into seemed a lot smarter than Oliver. You never can tell though.

[cookhj]

well john, the one thing i will give galyan's is that there's a sign when you walk in that says they "110% guarantee that we have the lowest prices." so, i guess go to greentop and degoffs and see what you want and see if galyan's will lower their price on it. eh, who knows.

[carpettbaggerr]

Seems like the staff writer was trying to make a story. Could have just written the article without the sensationalism of buying the gun in "violation" of obviously outdated city ordinances. On the other hand, that's one of best pro-RKBA editorials I've read outside of American Rifleman.

[JohnBT]

We get some pretty good editorials in the Richmond Times-Dispatch some days. Otherwise, it's just a so-so newspaper.

On the subject of ex-chief Oliver, I googled this blurb up. Richmond was a just a pit stop on his way to the top. :) JT

"From 1970 through 1990 Chief Oliver rose through the ranks to become the Assistant Chief of Police in his hometown of Phoenix, Az. He served briefly as the Director of Drug Policy in Memphis, Tenn., and upon leaving there, became Chief of Police in Pasadena, Calif., in June 1991."