Federal's New 000 Buck .410 Load- Does it really reach 1200 fps out of a Judge?


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.455_Hunter
July 30, 2009, 06:36 PM
I picked-up a box of the new Federal Handgun Personal Defense .410 load at Wal Mart last night. It is a 2 1/2" .410 shell featuring four (4) 000 buckshot at a supposed 1200 fps. The only .410 I have is a old, break open single-shot long gun.

Has anybody actually chronographed this new load out of an actual Judge or similar firearm?

If this round does produce 1200 fps out of a 3" or 4" barreled Judge, that's pretty impressive...

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ArmedBear
July 30, 2009, 06:49 PM
291 grains @ 1200 fps should be possible.

Note that it might kick a little. I wouldn't shoot it from my lap for vehicle defense (as some people say the Judge is good for). One might end up with a front sight embedded in his face.

farscott
July 30, 2009, 07:19 PM
Recoil in my Bond Arms Snake Slayer IV would be impressive if it truly is a 291-grain load at 1200 fps. I load my FA 83 .454 Casull with a bullet of similar weight (255 grains) at 1100 fps, and its recoil is noticeable. More weight, more velocity, and a lighter gun have to mean lots more recoil.

I have to believe the 1200 fps is out of a longer barrel or the payload is lighter than 291 grains.

MCgunner
July 30, 2009, 07:23 PM
I have a 10" .410 Contender I could test the stuff in, but I'm afraid to shoot shot loads over my Chrony, afraid the wad will smack it.

ArmedBear
July 30, 2009, 07:55 PM
Note that a .44 Magnum or "Ruger-only" .45 Colt load does the same thing with a 285 or 300 grain slug, from a smaller, better-balanced revolver.

Personally, I think that a massive magnum slug would work fine for self-defense at close range...

Buckshot from a Judge at anything but very close range might be a bit unpredictable, and the slug would probably work at least as well, probably better.

I guess what I'm saying is, even if it does, I can't see any reason not to shoot big .44 slugs from a regular 4" revolver (take your pick, Smith, Ruger, Taurus, whatever) instead.

snooperman
July 30, 2009, 08:31 PM
Most shotgun ammo manufacturers that I know of take their velocity measurements using shotguns with a barrel length of 22-26 inches. I do not believe you will get that kind of velocity from a short barrel revolver. That said, I am sure at close range the 410 Judge will be quite adequate .In one of my shotgun reloading manuals there is a chart showing the amount of velocity lost with each inch the barrel is made shorter than 22 inches. But I can not find at the present time. I have measured the velocity of ammo that I have for my home defense Remington 870 pump , with buckshot loads, using a chronograph years ago and it was not the usual 1250 ft per second, It was much less. The barrel of the shotgun is 18 inches and I believe the velocity around 1100 ft/sec.

MCgunner
July 30, 2009, 08:36 PM
The federal loads are built specifically FOR the Judge and the velocity claim is for the Judge.

rhinoh
July 30, 2009, 08:45 PM
I may get a chance to chrony some this weekend...I have had a little trouble trying to chrony shot shells out of the Judge though...the chrony apparently is fooled by the shot column and the wad/shot cup being slightly seperate, at least thats my guess. I can't get farther back because the shot spreads so quick I'm afraid of shooting the chrony!
What I found interesting in Academy where I bought it the regular buckshot 410 was higher priced than the new Judge rated stuff.

rhinoh
July 31, 2009, 11:19 AM
I was off work today so I ran out to the range.
The Federal Premium for the Judge ran around 850 out of my 3"er.
I was only able to chrony 2 out of a box of 5. Just wasn't getting the chrony to read all of them, as I noted earlier. I was also about 8 ft from the muzzle to even get the two readings I got.

.455_Hunter
July 31, 2009, 11:49 AM
Thanks rhinoh! :cool:

850 fps for 291 gr. of lead is not to bad- about 467 fpe total.

I bet they would meet the 12" standard FBI with out any problems.

I kinda thought that 1200 fps seemed to fast. I chamber pressure required to generate that velocity out of a 3" or 4" barrel would probably exceed the capabilities of the .410 hull and/or the cylinder of the Judge.

mgkdrgn
July 31, 2009, 02:09 PM
Not getting 1200fps out of mine (4" barrel) ... more like 850 - 875. Winchester 3 ball 000 buck is faster by 150 or so fps.

However, I wonder, as others have stated, how well the chrony will deal with a load from the Judge ... with multiple projectiles, including the wad. We may well be getting low readings.

Next time out I'll give it the 4" of pine at 10 feet test ... see how that compares to the Winchester.

ArmedBear
July 31, 2009, 02:19 PM
850 fps for 291 gr. of lead is not to bad- about 467 fpe total.

That's not how it works.

4 small projectiles will work like 4 small projectiles. One big one will work like one big one - much more penetration, a much bigger hole. One big, deep hole vs. four small, shallow holes.

That's why I said, for the recoil, I'd just shoot a .44 Magnum, if I thought I needed something really powerful.

.455_Hunter
July 31, 2009, 02:43 PM
That's not how it works.

Just using the the fpe value to quantify the kinetic energy generated by the round as compared to other non-multiprojectile cartridges.

Its terminal effects, good or bad, are open to debate... :scrutiny:

mgkdrgn
August 1, 2009, 08:45 AM
Just using the the fpe value to quantify the kinetic energy generated by the round as compared to other non-multiprojectile cartridges.

Its terminal effects, good or bad, are open to debate... :scrutiny:

In any case, when firing the 2.5" 3 000 pellet Winchester round, it will put all 3 pellets through 4" of pine at 10 feet. Translated to flesh I believe that would be more than sufficient penetration to get one's attention. Plus, with three (or more) projectiles -vs- one, you stand that much more chance of hitting something vital.

Boom Vang
September 24, 2009, 11:14 PM
I did a chrono today from a 3" DAO Judge: 820 fps average.

Great pattern results. I agree with those that say this would be an effective indoor/close range weapon.

Nicodemus38
September 24, 2009, 11:47 PM
i believe that Federal used the 6 inch barreled judges to come up with the ballistics data for their buckshot shell for the judge revolvers.

however, some could say the gain in energy and velocity by going to the 6 inch barrel form 3inches, is not always going to be a plus in the end.

rhinoh
September 25, 2009, 05:04 AM
i believe that Federal used the 6 inch barreled judges to come up with the ballistics data for their buckshot shell for the judge revolvers.



as well as straight down and in a vacuum:neener:

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